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Do you want a gun? Yes, you do, and I support your right to have it. But NEED it? During the early days of rec.skydiving I got into a discussion with a few people who felt they needed to carry on their parachutes on domestic flights, so in case of an in-flight emergency they could bail out. They either felt better having their parachutes with them or just wanted everyone to see that they had a parachute. One argued that he was safer overall now that he had a parachute. If you start skydiving and buy a parachute, it will absolutely increase your odds of serious injury or death - because it enables you to skydive, and that means you are more likely to be killed skydiving. I, of course, fully support anyone who wants to do it, and tens of thousands of people have a lot of fun doing it. But they have to understand that it is a dangerous sport that can (and has) killed people, and that no one has to skydive unless they really want to. I give that in a speech when I teach the first jump course. Same thing applies to guns. They will absolutely increase your odds of serious injury or death, no matter how much you rationalize that you are different from the average bear. No homeowner needs one for safety. Many homeowners WANT one, and that's fine - as long as they understand the significant increase in risk they accept by having one in their home.

On this issue I don't think there is hope for America. The outrage over this shooting will die down just like every other one. The cost of living and the cost of gas will dominate midterms. Gas for the 4x4, guns and a packed SC. I'd call that game, set and match.

Despite your 100% confidence in your perfection as a gun owner, someday someone might be saying the exact same thing about you. There are tens of thousands of dead people, killed by those who thought they'd never have an accident with a gun, or crack like Billy, or have a child find their unsecured weapon, or ...... People with your attitude ARE the problem.

Not if they are male white and rural, that type of poor isn't lazy; they are being oppressed, and purposely left behind, by minorities, women, the woke, etc.

Well, just hang in there best you can.

The shooting of innocents will never be enough. Change will only come when the powerful become fearful that they and their own children are at risk.

Gun violence has killed more Americans in the past 50 years than were killed in all wars combined since the country was founded. We do not have a bigger mental health problem than other G20 nations. We have a bigger gun problem.

There is currently a movement aimed at reducing suicide among veterans. https://overwatchproject.org/just-fucking-ask I'd say it needs to be something that we all do for our families, our friends, our communities. For Billy and his family. For JP and his family. For me. Maybe for you.

Of using guns vs anything else? That was the entire point of the OP. If that’s not ok just lock the thread. If you don’t want anyone to talk about anything related to Billy, what he did or how he did it then there’s nothing relevant to the OP which is postable.

I don't really take anything Brent posts seriously. It's like getting mad at the Facebook posts that talk about the pedophile libtards who hate America.

But, with respect, that doesn't mean he gets a free pass.

I blame him 100% for the deaths of his family. And if you read the news story it makes it clear that he did as well and that he decided to end his life rather than face the consequences. There is nothing we know of that indicates any mental illness. Men kill for many reasons and domestic violence is common and often hidden. We will never know what was happening within that family. The witnesses were all murdered.

Same is true for the Texas elementary school murderer. He was able to buy his guns with no restrictions. And THAT, right there, is the core of the problem.

If you knew him well and couldn't see this coming, does it mean that he probably shouldn't have owned a gun? Given the consequences? Wendy P.

A few months after buying the gun that made it so easy. 13 years he had that he could have used scissors or an ashtray, but that never happened.

The cowardice is owned by politicians who care more for NRA largesse than kids lives and gun owners who are paralyzed with fear over giving a single inch .

I quoted what I think are the two most relevant lines from your post.

Typical denier mentality. Countless others have claimed the same thing and been proven wrong. Over 300,000 "law abiding gun owners" have a gun stolen every year according to FBI data - in each case a criminal now has a gun that they shouldn't have, with which to harm others. People with your attitude ARE the problem.

WTF are we teaching our little children when they have to go through "active shooter drills" in pre-school and kindergarten? Other wealthy nations don't have a need for this, and the reason is clear. It's just appalling.

I don't see pies on the prohibited list. [evil grin]

Mine looks like me… Wendy P.

The Incidents forum is five down from this one. Wendy P.

Even setting Billy aside for a minute - this has already been researched and well proven to be far more likely than any valid defensive use will ever be, but the pro gun lobby will always choose (tragically) to ignore this.

This has absolutely solidified my opinion that guns have no place in a residential home. To those of you who do own guns and keep them around for personal protection, I'd ask you to honestly answer this question to yourself. What's more likely to happen to you at some point in your life - that you get attacked in your own home and need a gun to resolve the situation, or that you suffer a single bout of depression? Look at the statistics - this isn't an uncommon situation. It CAN happen to you. Studies have shown that suicidal impulses are (generally) fleeting. People who don't succeed mostly don't re-attempt, but when you use a gun you almost never get a do-over. .Jakee hit the nail on the head - Billy owned a gun for protection and killed himself and his family with it. That's the tragic bottom line.

But freedom! Freedom without responsibility or respect is assholeness. Wendy P.

This kind of stuff is why it's important to maintain our infrastructure. We won't advance as long as we have to spend all our time and money making major repairs, because we kicked the ball down the road too many times on minor ones. Wendy P.

That is hyperbole. The economy is adapting and will be fine. The reason prices are so high is the fallout of the war and the Covid recovery. It has absolutely nothing to do with Keystone or Biden.

For example, "fuck him and fuck anyone who supports him" would be too far. Forum rules still apply, and will be used to keep from turning this thread into (as Wendy put it) a shitshow. There have been two pages now of mostly-reasonable non-shit-show comments on this horrific shooting. So it's doable. Let's keep it that way.

It's hard not to be angry at Billy. He and his wife liked to go to the range and enjoyed shooting. I know he got angry in political discussions and traffic pissed him off. But this is so far out there how could anyone see it coming. When incidents like this happen and people close to the shooter say. "I never thought he would do something like this". Now I understand.

Stop underestimating 3rd graders. You can buy her a JR-15 from WEE1 Tactical. https://wee1tactical.com/ For a little defense to compliment her new offensive capability you can pair it with a new bullet proof back to school backpack from Amendment II with their new Rynohide CNT insert. Check out their CEO firing a pistol into a child's colorful backpack to prove it works. Instead of being so negative, be grateful there are people who can control their gag reflex and are willing to spend sleepless, tormented nights to do the hard work of keeping children safe.

Of course it will. They will have no where to hide. The crossfire could be a bitch, but what the hell, you can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs.

Hi Bill, Re: he opined that getting MORE guns out there will help stop such shootings I mean, what 3rd grader cannot handle a AR-15 easily? I do know that my 3rd grader granddaughter cannot. Fuck him. Jerry Baumchen

And that I hate America! And don't forget that that ALSO means that I am happy when kittens are killed. It's the only logical conclusion.

I would say that the fact that people knew him does not mean that he deserves anything at all from us. But I also believe that WE deserve better than having him turn into a go-to argument.

Being as careful as possible then, it’s a sad indictment of American gun culture and gun messaging that a person who was fully aware of their own tendencies towards depression, bipolar and stress, their bad financial situation, suicidal thoughts etc…. Still genuinely thought the safest thing to do was bring multiple loaded weapons into the house he shared with his family. And there’s an enormous lobbying and media industry pushing that message onto more people every day.

Oh, thank you for clarifying that. When it comes to protecting abusers, the largest American Protestant denomination is in the same vile category as the Catholic Church But abortion - rather like "but her emails".

Thank you Squeak saying that and thank you DFWAJG for starting this thread. That thing that did that was not the Billy we used to know. Let this be a place to celebrate whom he was previously, not what he became and did at the end. Blue Skies… asstrumpet. ☹️

Yes. It's so easy to observe that it wasn't seen coming. It causes me to think that there is more behind everyone here on SC that I interact with than I can ever truly know. I need to think about that truth.

Blue skies. For a guy that murdered his family?????

Psaki is a tough act to follow. I cannot think of any press secretary in the past 50 years who was her equal.

I'm with you buddy. I've had a hell of a life I also can't recall. I do have a Bill Booth story but you weren't there so it doesn't count.

Exactly. Here in the US, no one would be stupid enough to elect a reality-TV show actor as president.

Right. So have police confiscate guns from criminals as they do now; total number goes down. Make it hard for criminals to get new guns; total number does not go up again. It could take five years. It could take 25 years. But it's a worthy goal IMO.

A challenge; yes, but not unachievable. A database with cradle-to-grave ownership and transference not unlike vehicles would allow for a three-five year process of removing unregistered arms.

No kidding. It's hard to believe the gun culture in Ohio is on the right track when an 18 year old, or his idiot parents, thinks going on vacation to Times Square and toting your AK-47 along is a fine idea. Does anyone need more evidence that we need a serious national law?