DB Cooper

[Robert99 37]

9 hours ago, dudeman17 said:

To add to my answer above, that answer, as with most of my gear descriptions in this thread, is with Cooper era gear in mind. Back mains that pair with front reserves. Modern era piggyback rigs, with the main and reserve both incorporated into the same rig, those all do have packing cards, the card being pertinent to the reserve. The rigs that do not have cards are Cooper era back mains, which that McCoy rig is. Bailout rigs of all eras and types do have cards.

Here is a true story related to the above.  My skydiving instructor in the early 1960s, who was also a rigger, wanted to jump his chest reserve and didn't have a backpack that he could pack as a legal reserve (this couldn't be done with our modified backpacks).  So he decided to jump with his usual skydiver rig and just open the reserve rather than the backpack.

When he opened his chest reserve one of the snaps came unfastened and he couldn't get it refastened.  Fortunately, there was/is a strong web between the two snaps, and he made it down with no problems.  His rigger's logbook contains my signature for a ride down on what may have been the same reserve that he used that day.  

[dudeman17 270]

2 hours ago, Robert99 said:

Here is a true story...

Interesting story. The TSO testing for the reserve system includes every part of it - the harness, reserve container, canopy, and all deployment devices and attachments (the D-rings and clips). The main container is not part of the process, which is why it wouldn't be legal, even if he put a reserve canopy in it. That there is a human error component possible in attaching the clips to the D-rings is exactly why that cross-connecter is there. Now I'm going to give your rigger/instructor friend some grief. That he would fail to properly connect the reserve container, on any jump much less one where he intended to use it, is on par with the base jumper fatality you can currently find in the incident forum on this site, where he mis-routed his bridle. Before you say that he would have attached it properly, the clips include a spring-loaded gate that is designed to prevent it from coming off. Maintaining the functionality of that gate is part of a rigger's responsibility, and it is incumbent on the user to ensure that it works properly. Every. Single. Time. Complacency kills.

[Robert99 37]

2 hours ago, dudeman17 said:

Interesting story. The TSO testing for the reserve system includes every part of it - the harness, reserve container, canopy, and all deployment devices and attachments (the D-rings and clips). The main container is not part of the process, which is why it wouldn't be legal, even if he put a reserve canopy in it. That there is a human error component possible in attaching the clips to the D-rings is exactly why that cross-connecter is there. Now I'm going to give your rigger/instructor friend some grief. That he would fail to properly connect the reserve container, on any jump much less one where he intended to use it, is on par with the base jumper fatality you can currently find in the incident forum on this site, where he mis-routed his bridle. Before you say that he would have attached it properly, the clips include a spring-loaded gate that is designed to prevent it from coming off. Maintaining the functionality of that gate is part of a rigger's responsibility, and it is incumbent on the user to ensure that it works properly. Every. Single. Time. Complacency kills.

Sixty years ago, we only had access to surplus WW2 equipment.  I always made certain that both reserve snaps were properly closed when I jumped.  Nevertheless, one of the snaps would probably come open on about half of the jumps.  Some jumpers would drill a small hole in the snaps and insert a pin to make sure the snap couldn't come open.

This happened before modern equipment designed for skydiving was developed.  Even the Para Commanders were in the future.

[dudeman17 270]

1 hour ago, Robert99 said:

Sixty years ago, we only had access to surplus WW2 equipment.  I always made certain that both reserve snaps were properly closed when I jumped.  Nevertheless, one of the snaps would probably come open on about half of the jumps.  Some jumpers would drill a small hole in the snaps and insert a pin to make sure the snap couldn't come open.

Ahh, the old days, when sex was safe and skydiving was dangerous, haha. I made my first 50 or so jumps on that type of gear. Those springs had a habit getting loose, dislodged, or popping out. They needed to be replaced, though. I remember the pin fix, not sure if it was legal but it worked. Just think, though, half of your jumps the reserve was marginally workable? That's black death, brother. Ha!

 

1 hour ago, Robert99 said:

Even the Para Commanders were in the future.

Double Ha!, yer older than me! (Grinning cheshire-ly)

[Robert99 37]

10 hours ago, dudeman17 said:

Ahh, the old days, when sex was safe and skydiving was dangerous, haha. I made my first 50 or so jumps on that type of gear. Those springs had a habit getting loose, dislodged, or popping out. They needed to be replaced, though. I remember the pin fix, not sure if it was legal but it worked. Just think, though, half of your jumps the reserve was marginally workable? That's black death, brother. Ha!

 

Double Ha!, yer older than me! (Grinning cheshire-ly)

I'm older than everyone.  The most experienced skydiver I knew in the early 1960s held a B rating with about 200 jumps.

[olemisscub 466]

Roy Rose has passed away at age 98. 

[CooperNWO305 146]

Some good conversation on the DNA over on Facebook for those who haven’t looked. Richard McCoy’s son weighed in. It seems that he gave the FBI his DNA, why they asked is still speculation though. It could be because Dan Gryder “found” that parachute and that was the catalyst to move to the next step. The FBI has always said they would consider things if someone found a chute or a $20. 

[DanCooperHimself 9]

30 minutes ago, CooperNWO305 said:

Some good conversation on the DNA over on Facebook for those who haven’t looked. Richard McCoy’s son weighed in. It seems that he gave the FBI his DNA, why they asked is still speculation though. It could be because Dan Gryder “found” that parachute and that was the catalyst to move to the next step. The FBI has always said they would consider things if someone found a chute or a $20. 

For some far out reason, I think the DNA connection could be something else. The Mormon/LDS church in the late 60s and 70s had elements of crime still being investigated today. I’m wondering if the DNA collection had something to do with that and not Cooper? 

[ParrotheadVol 70]

4 hours ago, CooperNWO305 said:

Some good conversation on the DNA over on Facebook for those who haven’t looked. Richard McCoy’s son weighed in. It seems that he gave the FBI his DNA, why they asked is still speculation though. It could be because Dan Gryder “found” that parachute and that was the catalyst to move to the next step. The FBI has always said they would consider things if someone found a chute or a $20. 

But they only "found" a chute, not the chute. Surely to God they realize that.

I'm not sure what to think about any of this. Something has moved the needle with the FBI and I can't imagine the Dan Gryder bullshit was enough to do that. I liked the first video he did, by the way. I thoroughly enjoyed it. Didn't buy any of it, but I enjoyed it. The next one not so much. That chute discovery was a bit hokey. I find today's WWE to be more believable.

If they have managed to acquire a better DNA sample than what they had used years ago, I don't see that coming from the tie. The cut parachute lines perhaps? A recently found hair slide perhaps? I suppose it's good news that the FBI is at least showing some level of renewed interest. Hopefully it doesn't start and end with McCoy.

[CooperNWO305 146]

11 hours ago, ParrotheadVol said:

But they only "found" a chute, not the chute. Surely to God they realize that.

I'm not sure what to think about any of this. Something has moved the needle with the FBI and I can't imagine the Dan Gryder bullshit was enough to do that. I liked the first video he did, by the way. I thoroughly enjoyed it. Didn't buy any of it, but I enjoyed it. The next one not so much. That chute discovery was a bit hokey. I find today's WWE to be more believable.

If they have managed to acquire a better DNA sample than what they had used years ago, I don't see that coming from the tie. The cut parachute lines perhaps? A recently found hair slide perhaps? I suppose it's good news that the FBI is at least showing some level of renewed interest. Hopefully it doesn't start and end with McCoy.

It would be great if the FBI tested the spindle or the lines. I can see them doing the spindle because of all the press, but the lines discussion was mainly within the Vortex, and I wonder if the FBI would have gotten word that DNA would be on the lines where Cooper held to make his cuts. It would be amazing if they did find that slide through OleMiss’s FOIA. 
 

It is odd that Rick McCoy gave his DNA. I hope that is due to new testing. 
 

Here is my issue. If the FBI has new DNA and they do the old STR testing, then we are reliant on sending in a suspect’s DNA or their family member’s. This is essentially a needle in a haystack approach. We basically have to find a suspect within the male population and right age range and hope they are the guy. Unless we are very lucky and actually have the guy, this just may never get us anywhere, unless by some stroke of luck he’s in CODIS. I bet Cooper is not in CODIS. 

It would be good if they do the SNP testing and then they can load it into the genealogy databases. I don’t know of any non murder or rape cases that have used SNP yet, but this was a violent crime and should qualify. 
 

The DNA is all great, but if it is not Cooper’s DNA then we have to hope the DNA is someone he knew and at least gives us a person and a location.

I can see the tie not being his, but given there may have been a tie pin with a logo removed, that would indicate to me that maybe he felt the tie could identify him.

I remain a little skeptical that Gryder’s YouTube  or Eric’s lawsuit are the reason for this activity.  I hope I’m wrong.

 

[JAGdb 71]

2 hours ago, CooperNWO305 said:

It would be great if the FBI tested the spindle or the lines. I can see them doing the spindle because of all the press, but the lines discussion was mainly within the Vortex, and I wonder if the FBI would have gotten word that DNA would be on the lines where Cooper held to make his cuts. It would be amazing if they did find that slide through OleMiss’s FOIA. 
 

It is odd that Rick McCoy gave his DNA. I hope that is due to new testing. 
 

Here is my issue. If the FBI has new DNA and they do the old STR testing, then we are reliant on sending in a suspect’s DNA or their family member’s. This is essentially a needle in a haystack approach. We basically have to find a suspect within the male population and right age range and hope they are the guy. Unless we are very lucky and actually have the guy, this just may never get us anywhere, unless by some stroke of luck he’s in CODIS. I bet Cooper is not in CODIS. 

It would be good if they do the SNP testing and then they can load it into the genealogy databases. I don’t know of any non murder or rape cases that have used SNP yet, but this was a violent crime and should qualify. 
 

The DNA is all great, but if it is not Cooper’s DNA then we have to hope the DNA is someone he knew and at least gives us a person and a location.

I can see the tie not being his, but given there may have been a tie pin with a logo removed, that would indicate to me that maybe he felt the tie could identify him.

I remain a little skeptical that Gryder’s YouTube  or Eric’s lawsuit are the reason for this activity.  I hope I’m wrong.

 

Just my two cents, but in last year or so, perhaps it was in the interview he did with Bruce, Larry Carr had cast a lot of doubt on the FBI's original partial DNA that they had derived back in the early 2000s. (even though we know that they were using it for quite some time to eliminate some suspects)

This leads me to believe that they have recently conducted new DNA testing, whether it be on the shroud lines, the tie spindle, perhaps the hair slide, or something else and they now have a much better result, perhaps a full profile ?

In addition, I wonder if they were able to compare the new DNA result to the older partial and perhaps determine if it is congruent or not ?  That would be really interesting...

Based on the recent news that McCoy's son has given a sample, I guess this implies that they never tested McCoy's DNA against the original partial DNA profile they had back in the early 2000s ?

 

 

[Coopericane 44]

4 hours ago, JAGdb said:

Just my two cents, but in last year or so, perhaps it was in the interview he did with Bruce, Larry Carr had cast a lot of doubt on the FBI's original partial DNA that they had derived back in the early 2000s. (even though we know that they were using it for quite some time to eliminate some suspects)

This leads me to believe that they have recently conducted new DNA testing, whether it be on the shroud lines, the tie spindle, perhaps the hair slide, or something else and they now have a much better result, perhaps a full profile ?

In addition, I wonder if they were able to compare the new DNA result to the older partial and perhaps determine if it is congruent or not ?  That would be really interesting...

Based on the recent news that McCoy's son has given a sample, I guess this implies that they never tested McCoy's DNA against the original partial DNA profile they had back in the early 2000s ?

 

 

We know they wanted McCoy's DNA back in '04... but the FBI files seemed to express some doubt over if they could get his family to cooperate. Now we know that they actually refused DNA tests until after Karen's death in 2020 so I don't think they ever compared his DNA to the old partial profile.

With McCoy's family now cooperating, I would assume the FBI is following up on that and the new information from Rick. They never did get to test his DNA (as far as I know) and considering how invested they were in McCoy as a suspect it makes sense for them to do so.

I don't expect McCoy to be Cooper... but hopefully these whispers are the sign of them having something more. Maybe there's a new, better source of DNA and they want to compare it to some old suspects just to see if they get a match.

[dudeman17 270]

On 2/21/2024 at 10:55 AM, olemisscub said:

Roy Rose has passed away at age 98. 

That's the composite sketch guy, right? Some time ago on Shutter's site, someone mentioned the idea that Cooper may have had a facial tic. For some reason that caught my attention and I asked about it. Most people discounted it, but someone said that idea came from the sketch guy (Rose?), that one of the stews or someone had mentioned that to him. Does anyone know anything about that?

[georger 197]

11 hours ago, JAGdb said:

Just my two cents, but in last year or so, perhaps it was in the interview he did with Bruce, Larry Carr had cast a lot of doubt on the FBI's original partial DNA that they had derived back in the early 2000s. (even though we know that they were using it for quite some time to eliminate some suspects)

This leads me to believe that they have recently conducted new DNA testing, whether it be on the shroud lines, the tie spindle, perhaps the hair slide, or something else and they now have a much better result, perhaps a full profile ?

In addition, I wonder if they were able to compare the new DNA result to the older partial and perhaps determine if it is congruent or not ?  That would be really interesting...

Based on the recent news that McCoy's son has given a sample, I guess this implies that they never tested McCoy's DNA against the original partial DNA profile they had back in the early 2000s ?

 

 

what is the source of all of this 'new testing new dna tests' ? Is there a source or is this all hallucination / media gobble wobble ?

Why do people spreading rumors never post a source ?  (because its all rumor and falsehoods ?)

Edited February 23 by georger

[JAGdb 71]

7 hours ago, georger said:

what is the source of all of this 'new testing new dna tests' ? Is there a source or is this all hallucination / media gobble wobble ?

Why do people spreading rumors never post a source ?  (because its all rumor and falsehoods ?)

My post is pure speculation and wishful thinking based on the article from the Sun:

https://www.the-sun.com/news/10410179/db-cooper-fbi-investigating-dna-richard-mccoy/

There is nothing official that the FBI has new DNA. 

 

[WalterRaleigh 8]

Given that Karen McCoy is now deceased, she can no longer be defamed.  Could the court order halting the sale of movie rights to The Real McCoy be lifted? 

Do we think the McCoy children will try to profit from a sale of their father's life story?

[Cola 26]

43 minutes ago, WalterRaleigh said:

Could the court order halting the sale of movie rights to The Real McCoy be lifted?

McCoy's just not Cooper

Somewhere I'd like to imagine that the Real McCoy was so bad in it's assertion of McCoy being Cooper that the Agency was ultimately behind shutting down the book - to save face. 

- McCoy has his own story and its not Cooper's...

 

[Andrade1812 51]

1 hour ago, WalterRaleigh said:

Given that Karen McCoy is now deceased, she can no longer be defamed.  Could the court order halting the sale of movie rights to The Real McCoy be lifted? 

Do we think the McCoy children will try to profit from a sale of their father's life story?

Profit they might. I doubt it tho. Cooper case is already saturated with media.

The irony is they waited too long. If the McCoy's had made their claims prior to 2016 it would have been seen as practically solving the case in the public eye. Instead, they waited until after all the FBI files showing McCoy could not possibly have been Cooper was released to the public. 

[olemisscub 466]

23 hours ago, dudeman17 said:

That's the composite sketch guy, right? Some time ago on Shutter's site, someone mentioned the idea that Cooper may have had a facial tic. For some reason that caught my attention and I asked about it. Most people discounted it, but someone said that idea came from the sketch guy (Rose?), that one of the stews or someone had mentioned that to him. Does anyone know anything about that?

Never heard that and highly doubt its veracity. Roy Rose has only ever given one public comment about all of this and it was a video he did with his grandson. His exact quote was that they merely described Cooper as "a middle aged person, dressed in a suit, with a dark complexion, and a sort of protruding lower lip."

[georger 197]

16 hours ago, JAGdb said:

My post is pure speculation and wishful thinking based on the article from the Sun:

https://www.the-sun.com/news/10410179/db-cooper-fbi-investigating-dna-richard-mccoy/

There is nothing official that the FBI has new DNA. 

 

Thanks! as always .....

[olemisscub 466]

 

[Chaucer 103]

On 2/22/2024 at 8:01 PM, dudeman17 said:

That's the composite sketch guy, right? Some time ago on Shutter's site, someone mentioned the idea that Cooper may have had a facial tic. For some reason that caught my attention and I asked about it. Most people discounted it, but someone said that idea came from the sketch guy (Rose?), that one of the stews or someone had mentioned that to him. Does anyone know anything about that?

Do you mean the protruding lower lip that the eyewitnesses kept mentioning? I know Rose drew attention to that in the video interview his grandson did a few years ago. 

[Chaucer 103]

These two cases are very tangentially rated to Cooper. 

First, a young woman who went missing in 1969 has been identified using investigative genetic genealogy. This is the same technique that would need to be used to give Cooper a name. Moreover, her remains were found on Sauvie Island just a few miles north of Tena Bar:

https://people.com/human-remains-identified-as-portland-teen-who-went-missing-in-1970-8599722

Second, the story of a young girl who went missing from Vancouver, WA just  two weeks after the DB Cooper hijacking. Her clothing and other belongings were later found near Battle Ground, WA. She is believed to be a victim of serial killer Warren Forrest. Coincidentally, a body was found at the Cedar Creek Grist Mill which is just south of Lake Merwin in spring of 1972. At, the time it was thought that the remains could be that of DB Cooper. That body was later identified at Barbara Ann Derry, who was also a victim of Warren Forrest. 

https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/cold-case-spotlight/sister-still-hoping-answers-jamie-grissim-s-disappearance-n691386#

The Vortex swirls...

Edited February 27 by Chaucer

[dudeman17 270]

1 hour ago, Chaucer said:

Do you mean the protruding lower lip that the eyewitnesses kept mentioning?

No, the lip thing is a fairly common part of the description and would not stand out. Someone mentioned a tic.

[georger 197]

2 hours ago, dudeman17 said:

No, the lip thing is a fairly common part of the description and would not stand out. Someone mentioned a tic.

Tics can be mistaken for akathisia, tardive dyskinesia, or other hyperkinetic movement disorders sometimes induced by drugs used to treat psychological disorders ? 

Edited February 27 by georger