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(edited)

Well Georger is finally getting it..

 

The diatoms enter when the bills fan out after entering the water,,, when they clump together the diatoms can't get inside.

 

That indicates the money first entered the water in Spring,,,

Edited by FLYJACK

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(edited)

Just a note for people in general:

Seems like some of the links to imagery and other files regarding Cooper at the FBI, especially maps, are now dead links. 

And we know that Sluggo's website was not renewed and is now gone from public view. 

However...you can still access everything at Sluggo's old site by using the Internet Archive. And the Archive apparently took complete shots of Sluggo's site for storage. You can access Sluggo's place and all the stuff through the following link:

https://web.archive.org/web/20160305014201/http://n467us.com/

When you get there, just select any of the snapshots offered. Surprisingly, the Archive was able to save the ENTIRE site, including all links and all images presented on that website. This is relatively rare. Often, they capture *most* of a site, but images or other links will not work. In Sluggo's case, it's an exact duplicate of the original with absolutely nothing left out. 

For any Cooperites out there who might have an interest in preserving Sluggo's extensive work, just in case the Archive loses everything later, or whatever...you could open a free website somewhere, put up with the ads if you don't want to pay the fees...

And copy/paste everything at the Archive over to the free site. This would require some amount of work. Pretty doubtful Sluggo would care, because he was the one who let everything lapse. Why he did that I haven't a clue. 

Another possibility is you could just save the important files and links to some sort of vault, I suppose. On your own, existing website. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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Well...I am kind of torn today on what EU has in mind for November. Been reading his posts at the Cooper Forum lately. I want to give the guy a fair chance, a fair deal here...but....

This doesn't sound like any CooperCon thing to me. It sounds like a bunch of local businesses in coop with EU in some sort of marketing effort where you pay to see what's being marketed. Toss in Bruce Smith, a supposedly 'solid' reporter and researcher claiming he was abducted by aliens. And EU trying to hit about every Northwest voodoo topic in existence, i.e. Bigfoot, UFO's, (not exclusive to the PNW but allegedly began here at Mt. Rainier) yada, yada, yada. And several local businesses, probably desperate for business since the pandemic started, contributing items they hope will generate enough to keep them afloat. 

If EU only gets a hundred people to show up for something like this, which was the approximate attendance (or a bit less) LAST time, there where do you go with this NEXT year? 

And some people have said MY idea for the Cooper Festival was bad? You have got to be kidding. 

Look...I will not go against this event in Vancouver in any way. No negative articles, nothing bad about it said in Greenwater, WA this June, sure...I will give it a fair shot. 

I've always said that people get the events they deserve. You guys were the ones who basically enabled EU to create this type of event, which has little to do with Cooper, and more to do with marketing. I hear these people like Darren all excited about it, but no one's going to be very excited if you can't fill the seats. And when you start involving local businesses and trying to sell THEIR products as well, and then try charging people twenty dollars or more a ticket...you are taking a big risk that the public will blow you off completely. It could work, sure. It could just as well do a crash and burn. Newspaper article on your last CooperCon said about a hundred people showed. Somebody who actually attended told me it wasn't quite that many. 

I'm trying to walk a line between laying out reality for you guys, while not sounding as if I'm against your ideas. Like I said, ALL Cooper events are a good thing. It helps keep the case in the public eye. But this sounds more like a local trade fair. And when you do trade fair stuff, what you need are the looky-loo, walk-in/walk-out traffic as well. Not just people who pay a fee and are assigned a seat. That is for a very structured event, and people will expect a show, a good presentation, not just a few tables with local products and a few people talking about Cooper onstage. Or Bigfoot. Or How I Was Abducted by Aliens. 

I can tell you this much. We're not going to be up there at Greenwater this June trying to sell anything to people except the idea of fun. And I will not allow anyone there to get up on stage and talk smack about the Vancouver event. But you guys better trust Eric, and hope he knows what the hell he is doing. Maybe he does. It's hard to say. 

Personal to Eric Ulis:  Look, man. Have you considered the idea of renting some sort of small convention hall, or local hall with a small stage instead? One where people can come and go as they please after paying a small entrance fee as trade fairs do? What you have in mind might not work in a theater. I'm not picking on you here. Your stuff might actually work better in a venue like that, and it's easier to do local business displays as well. You definitely need walk-in, walk-around trade for what you have in mind. If you are going to run this over two days, you need this ability for people to come and go the whole weekend. Or...what will probably happen is that you will get X amount of people on the first day, and possibly far LESS than X on the second. 

No big deal, but as of today we reached exactly 60 people absolutely confirmed for the June event. And no news articles have been released yet about it. We are still three months away from setup, and haven't yet opened the informational gates or made it possible for drop-ins to just decide to show up or not as they wish. (Means making the PDF with the maps and all the contact and location stuff public and in the press) I'm starting to believe we may reach max attendance after all. And we're just three guys and a gal with a budget tossing this all together. If we can do that in June, you should be able to kick our asses easily in November. 

 

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(edited)

Too many posts in a row, I know. But...since everyone else seems to be announcing their intentions and schedules for the other Cooper event this year, I will put out our tentative Schedule of Events for you now. (Subject to change, but not much.)

Several days prior to the June Festival, a crew of four people will meet up at my house to load up all the gear and proceed to the party site for setup. At this time, the public PDF on the event, detailing a schedule, maps, contact information, and suggestions on gear will be made public on several websites. We will take your calls onsite while doing the setup. If anyone wants to come early, they will be allowed to do that. We will put up signs on the way to the party site, to assist you in finding your way there. Anyone arriving early will be expected to help with setup, and have their choice of prime spots for camping near the main stage. We will also set up a First Aid Station, several garbage collection sites, and two flush toilet/shower tents, one for men and one for women. Anyone attending who comes in a camper or who have their own toilet facilities will be encouraged to use their own facilities to allow more room for the people using ours. Very large tarps will be strung over the stage, and for some distance out in front of it. This area will be reserved for people to set up their own small tables and chairs, plus leaving some area near the stage open for dancing, if people want to do that later at night. 

Quote

Adventure Books of Seattle - 50th Anniversary DB Cooper Party 

Friday, June 11, 2021: 

6AM: General attendees are allowed into the area. We will assist you in finding a site, depending on your vehicle, your camping arrangements, etc. You must either show proof of vaccination against the Covid-19 virus, or be on the email list where you already provided that to us in advance. Anyone over 21 with valid proof of vaccination will be allowed on site. Anyone else will be turned away. At this time, we will also monitor the assigned radio frequencies full-time in case anyone trying to reach the site is having problems. If you get lost, someone will come to assist you. 

9AM: Music will start from the main stage and continue until about noon. During this time, we will encourage everyone to explore the displays and get to know one another. 

12 Noon: Yours truly and Greg the Techie Guy will make a short thank-you address from the stage to everyone. Usual speech on having fun and to please help keep the area clean during the party. Yada Yada. 

1PM-3PM: Open stage for anyone who wants to speak on the Cooper case, or talk about their personal experiences regarding Cooper, such as where they were and what they were doing on November 24, 1971. A couple of official speakers have been scheduled for this as well. 

5:30 PM-9 PM: Stage will be open to anyone. If no one takes the stage, we will do music. 

9:30 PM- Whenever: Campfire if allowed, if not allowed then we do the propane campfire. Bar is open BYOB. Music will be main entertainment. Some distance away, we will offer movies on the big screen by vote from the audience. 

2:00 AM - Music closed. Depending on the crowd activity, we might extend this to 3 AM. 

Saturday, June 12: 

7:00 AM - 10 AM - Festival crew will assist in heating water and showing people how the hot water shower systems work, should anyone want to take advantage of that. (Most people will be washing up and eating breakfast at this time.)

9:00 AM - Festival crew will set up a small structure made of heavy tarps in the shape of a cabin, place the 32" TV in there on a table, provide it with constant power, and allow anyone who wishes to use it for video games, movies on flash drive or DVD, or whatever they wish. This will be enabled all day and into the late evening. 

10AM - We will make a short announcement pointing out other things people can do in the local area, such as mountain biking, day hikes, or driving to nearby Mt. Rainier viewpoints. We will offer two-way portable radios to anyone who isn't familiar with the area and is worried they might get lost. 

10:30 AM- 4 PM - Open stage if anyone wishes to speak, otherwise music. 

4PM: Free Spaghetti Feed with side dishes for everyone who wants to partake. 

5PM: Robert Blevins will address the crowd regarding the Amboy Parachute, and the Seattle FBI's response to it, as well as general comments on how they handled the case over the years. Also UFOs. (Just kidding on the UFOs. I was checking to see if you were paying attention.)

6PM: The bar is once again open BYOB. From then on until late that night, it is basically a party. The TV tent will remain open some distance away. If people want to dance, we have no problem with that. Music will be going more or less nonstop from the stage. 

9PM-10PM - Cooper Character Lookalike Contest for prizes. Three categories. Cooper, the stews, and Flight Crew. Overall winner gets a $150 Amazon gift card. First place in all three categories receives a $75 card. Second and third place in all three categories receives a $25 and a $10 card respectively. If more than 150 people show up by the time of the contest, we will boost the prizes a bit more by adding small amounts of cash to the prize envelopes. 

3AM: All power sources closed down with the exception of the Charging Station for folks' phones and laptops, and some outdoor lights. 

Sunday, June 13:  A thank you address from the entire Festival staff in the morning from the stage, plus anyone else who wants to say anything before we shut it all down. After that, we start packing it up and heading home. Anyone else is free to remain for longer. We will ask for people to assist us in picking up all garbage before they leave. 

As you can see, this is a pretty loose schedule of events. And I didn't actually give the names of the people who made requests to speak about the Cooper case. That's because it's a surprise. Only a couple of people are signed up anyway so far. Most people aren't showing up to be talked at, but to have fun. It's also why we set up a lot of the stage time as 'open,' because we don't know how many requests to speak we will get after this goes public in news articles. So far we have two solid requests and a maybe. 

Since we've never tried a Cooper event this big before, on some things we are 'winging' it a bit and waiting to see what the actual people who show up have in mind. How we plan to do that is to talk to people when they arrive, or after they finish setting up, to see if THEY have any ideas, or any suggestions on what THEY might want to do. And we are open to these things. The reason is because we're basically providing the means, and they decide some of the things that will happen over the weekend. It is all about them, not us. I think by Friday afternoon we will have a much better idea on what's going to happen over the remainder of the weekend. 

A few things are set in stone, such as the Cooper Character Lookalike Contest, and the Spaghetti Feed, etc. Others are not. If someone comes along and wants to plug in their guitar, we will show them where the plug-in and the volume switch is. Like that. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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(edited)

Ulis is making a false claim,,, 

The June 1972 and June 1974 floods were NOT the only times the River reached the money find spot.

 

The money find spot was at the high water line in 1980,, only about 3-4 ft above the River level at the time. 

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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(edited)

Change of Heart
by Robert Blevins

Totally non-Cooper for the most part, but I re-released the Sandy McQueen book today for the Kindle. On THIS particular book...THIS one...I did all the editing, the image insertions, and the cover design. Most fun I ever had in my life, I assure you. This was one of the few books by AB of Seattle where I did EVERYTHING from start to end. No one was touching this book except yours truly.

I took it down for a while and sort of forgot about it. But in the interest of moving on eventually from Cooper and leaving that playing field to the folks who believe they've been kidnapped by aliens, or think Cooper is simply a self-marketing project...it was time to start returning to roots. 

Truth be known, in many ways I was better off before this Cooper stuff came along. After the June festival, I am moving on. I'm not even going to try to compete with the aliens. Or contribute to a marketing effort. 

Say what you wish, but I'm still the guy who turned down a Cooper movie option contract paying a decent four figures a year, simply because I was sent a crappy script. Even I have standards and morals, believe it or not. I'm not against marketing efforts. But I am against self-marketing efforts done on the backs of other people. 

Everyone gets what they deserve in the end, as my old man used to say. And I think what has happened in Cooperland over the last five years is exactly what most of the people involved in all that truly have coming. After reading a continuing series of one-way comments over at Shutter's forum, one negative thing after another about both me personally, as well as this CooperCon thing in November...I have changed my mind about it. I wanted to 'be fair,' but this thing called 'a conscience' interfered in its nagging little way.

I no longer support the idea of Eric Ulis taking over Cooperland like some Pied Piper and leading several people down a road where he flatters them to get what he wants. You heard it here first. At some point in the future, he is going to forget all of you and after USING you to get what he wants...laugh his way to the bank. You would have been better off rejecting EU's invitations, and instead approaching Geoff Gray, a legit Cooperland person if there ever was one, and certainly more solid and honest than EU. And yes, as time goes on I will have a few things to say about it. 

There is nothing wrong with me saying these things, since some of Shutter's biggest contributors, his most-prolific and famous members (Robert99 and Georger in particular) have been saying similar things. You should never set aside your morals, or say things you really don't mean, just to be 'nice'. And in regards to CooperCon, (good name for it) I was saying positive stuff about it that I really didn't mean. Shame on ME.

Yes...I will bet that AB of Seattle gets more people to attend our Cooper event in June...and that these people will have much more fun doing it...than anything Eric does this November in Vancouver. The 'fun' part is normal, and not part of any bet. But I bet, even though he can call in every known Cooper name who will go along with him, and recruit all those businesses to assist...that we will show people where the Cooper celebration really lives this year. Some of you, even though you would never admit it publicly, are going to wonder after CooperCon if it was worth it when you bought those plane tickets, or filled up that gas tank, or rented that motel room. And you will wonder what would have happened had you actually shown up in Greenwater instead. No worries. There will be a video later. 

Oh...who is Sandy McQueen? 
Let's just say she lived a more interesting life than probably any of us have. Picture of the front cover below. 

Please do not drool on the screen. Thank you. We're re-releasing the paperback version soon as well. I did this book in A-4 size format (magazine size) so I could make the 50+ illustrations as large as possible. For obvious reasons. B) Until the paperback is re-released, I think Amazon is still holding one paperback copy from our previous release. Probably won't last long, though. 

The Queen of Hearts - The Life and Times of a Golden Age Burlesque Star by [Sandy McQueen, Robert Blevins]

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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(edited)

I have explained Carr's money "bundle" error many times... 

Georger just ignores it..

 

The only difference is whether there were 2 bands holding the bundle or a single band..  both fan out.. the single fans out more.

Edited by FLYJACK

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(edited)

This is becoming a clown show,, Georger, Ulis and now Chaucer have the facts screwed up..

Georger has had it wrong for a decade, I have explained it many times and he is just impervious to facts...  I prefer if he stays ignorant.

Eric is mostly correct, a banded or strapped group of 100 bills is a packet.. can also be called a flat or a strap. Himmelsbach and the Bank confirm this in the FBI docs. Eric is wrong on two points, the bundles were randomized not the packets and it is not a fact that the packets arrived on TBAR separately.

The Bank called them packets.

Cooper was given the money in packets of 100 bills. Those packets were rubber banded into bundles,,,

get it, packets = 100 bills and bundles = a group of packets.

Carr claimed that the Bank guy he talked to said the bundles were made random. There are other references to the bundles being randomized to look hastily prepared.

Here is the problem, Carr also stated that the three bundles were each a random count, he was wrong, he confused the packets of 100 with the bundles of packets. Carr mixed up the terms. The packets were in 100's.

We know Cooper was given the money in packets of 100, those packets rubber banded into bundles of a random number of PACKETS...

So, if the TBAR money arrived as three separate packets they had to be removed from the bundles they were in when given to Cooper prior to landing on TBAR.

Also, the rubber band frags attached to bills were not documented, there is no way to confirm they were only holding packets and not the bundle or a combination.

The FBI claimed the money was from one bundle and in the same order.

Conclusion,,, it is NOT a fact that the 3 TBAR packets arrived separately and it is most likely that the 3 packets arrived rubber banded in a single bundle, as the rubber bands deteriorated the packets loosened and fell apart slightly.

 

Georger is wasting everyone's time with his nonsense. This has been explained to him many times and he just doesn't understand simple concepts... 

packet = a group of 100 bills

bundle = a group of packets

Carr got it wrong claiming the packets were randomized by the bank,, they were not. It was the bundles that was randomized, the number of packets in a bundle. Georger has been defending this error for ten years now even when it has been clarified.

I pointed the problem out on Shutter's site a while back because it didn't make sense,, How could the money go to Cooper in 100's and end up randomized.. they didn't.. Carr and Georger screwed up.

Then, I was mocked and told to shut up...   by ignorant people.

 

I always assumed Georger knew better but was being a troll,, no, he really has no clue.

 

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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Boeing records indicate 318 727-100's had the optional emergency release,,

91 727-100C cargo/passenger

164 727-100 all passenger

plus 63 modification kits...

 

Norjak did not have this system and there is no indication that the Hicks placard was used inside for this system on any 727.

 

1980..

727airstairemergency1a.jpg.3d3fda4ee1a3bcab175aaa521e3c7f82.jpg

 

 

 

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(edited)

I saw recently that Darren Schafer quoted some official at the US Treasury regarding the possible tracing, and methods of laundering for the Cooper ransom money. 

Yes, it is true that Treasury would sometimes try to track where $100 dollar bills went, but not twenties of course.  And that's about where the truth ends on a lot of what that official told Darren. At least regarding the narrow subject of the actual Cooper ransom money. 

I also interviewed someone who worked at Treasury some years ago regarding the Cooper money, and the request by the FBI for the Fed banks to try finding those bills, by working from that 32-or-so page list, and he had a completely different story. He had also worked for the Bureau of Printing and Engraving for nearly 30 years when I interviewed him. He was a senior official there back in 2009 or so. 

HE said this:

  • Even if the Fed banks had tried examining their twenties as they were requested to do by the FBI and Ralph Himmelsbach, it would be the same deal as when the FBI handed out that list to every PNW (Pacific Northwest) bank, plus the casinos, and the Fed banks. All of them got the list. And the result was the same at the Fed banks as everywhere else. It was a nearly impossible task and was abandoned at the civilian banks within three months after the list emerged, and no later than six months before virtually EVERY bank, including the Fed banks, gave up the chase. FBI agent Larry Carr actually admitted this is what happened, in his radio interview with Rinehart, which is available to listen to at DB Cooper/Wikipedia. It's at the bottom of the page. 
     
  • This also means that either Himmelsbach was stretching the truth when he claimed these banks continued that search for years, or he wasn't told that the search had been given up as hopeless. 
     
  • As of 2017 there are about EIGHT BILLION twenty-dollar bills in circulation. If you estimate that half that many were in circulation in 1970, that is still one hell of a lot of bills. This is not finding a needle in a haystack. This is finding one particular piece of hay in a dozen haystacks. Four billion divided by 10,000 twenties is 400,000 bills. This means that out of 400,000 bills in circulation, only ONE was a Cooper bill. Imagine a stack of currency on the floor totaling 400,000 individual bills. Then divide that 400,000 bills by 28 grams (bills weigh one gram, and 28 grams equal one ounce) and then converting all that to pounds. This gives you about 900 pounds of bills...and inside that massive stack...you would theoretically find ONE Cooper bill. The task was hopeless from the start, unless Cooper was foolish enough to walk onto a car lot and buy a vehicle with a pile of twenties. Of course these numbers jump much higher if MORE than four billion twenties were actually in circulation in 1970. Numbers are not available that far back. It actually could be eight billion or more...because back then credit cards, PayPal, etc were not used as much as today. Money or checks were the most common forms of financial transactions.
     
  • The Cooper Bill Thing is not really about money laundering. It is about money SPENDING. Money laundering is more like setting up a phony business to clean up dirty money, or establishing a baloney corporation to shield income from other sources. It is more commonly done with very large amounts of money, such as the amounts taken in by drug cartels and the like. To launder out $200,000 is almost child's play, even back in 1971. 
     
  • This official added that Fed bank tellers wouldn't have put up with such a search-every-twenty demand for long, and many of them probably ignored the request. (I made a comment that such tellers were still Federal employees, and asked him if that made a difference. He asked me if I had ever been to the Post Office. Took me a second to get the joke, which was that many Federal employees won't do much more than they are required to do.) ¬¬
     
  • All used and damaged currency eventually ends up in the hands of the BEP. (Bureau of Printing and Engraving) in Washington, DC. They were also asked to search the bills from the list, and this official claimed that such a search, even if anyone at BEP had actually tried it, would have gone on for no more than a week or two. The reason? Because they receive literally TRUCKLOADS of used and damaged currency a week. Those were his words. 
     
  • The bottom line here is that it would be relatively easy to spend (or launder) the money after no more than six months AFTER the hijacking. In other words, by June 1972 no one was actually LOOKING for the bills any more.  

    Side Note from the BEP website:
    How much money is printed each day? The Bureau of Engraving and Printing produces 38 million notes a day with a face value of approximately $541 million. Much is new currency. Some is replacement currency. But they obviously have (had) better things to do than try to search all their incoming bills against a silly printed list. The sole chance, the ONLY chance for Cooper to get caught with those bills is if he started spreading them around in large numbers locally, while the banks WERE looking. And that ended, in Larry Carr's words, "Within three months, most banks gave up the search. Within six, virtually all of them did..." (paraphrased, but close.) 
Edited by RobertMBlevins

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On 3/8/2021 at 1:21 AM, FLYJACK said:

I think it is a geo grid

Thanks, got it now (thanks to andrade1812 on DB Cooper Forum). This site converts latitude and longitude to GEOREF and other grids: https://www.earthpoint.us/convert.aspx. 

So the four annotations NC, NB, NA and NQ (from north to south) correspond to the GEOREF quadrangles DKNC, DKNB, DKNA and DJNQ.

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(edited)

The Hick's placard DID NOT come from inside NORJAK.

There was NO internal emergency system to pull a red handle..

 

After the FBI investigated the Hick's placard and had the blueprints from NWA they claimed the placard came from the outside and could have fallen off any passing 727. NO FURTHER INVESTIGATION

Eric keeps making the flase claim that the FBI confirmed the placard came from NORJAK, they DID NOT. The Sheriff made that claim and the FBI walked it back.

outsideaircraftdecal.jpeg.41d84227c4c52ae1978ecc82b7b7a4c6.jpeg

Before the placard find, in June 1978 the NORJAK 727 plane was sold to Piedmont.

Piedmont 727 Sept 1978 safety card. NO OPTIONAL EMERGENCY SYSTEM

safety-card-piedmont-airlines-boeing_1_864fe7be6713c083034daceb4ab2e812.jpg.682b2f2a8bf364e4d2b12fd5afd91dcd.jpg

 

NORJAK plane at RENO Nov 25, 1971, NO OPTIONAL EMERGENCY SYSTEM. Has two decals on the main door.

norjakairstairintadj.jpg.101eb661fecf711dbbd72639ce3ef981.jpg

 

NORJAK did not have any internal emergency system that matches the placard description to "pull red handle".

1768962146_touchedupstairs.jpg.909e12f6f64c198328d6bf49bb7ea2a1.thumb.jpg.9b33d50c3c49b333e697d205d5bfde4f.jpg

Edited by FLYJACK

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4 hours ago, DFS346 said:

Thanks, got it now (thanks to andrade1812 on DB Cooper Forum). This site converts latitude and longitude to GEOREF and other grids: https://www.earthpoint.us/convert.aspx. 

So the four annotations NC, NB, NA and NQ (from north to south) correspond to the GEOREF quadrangles DKNC, DKNB, DKNA and DJNQ.

Now I recall,,, I have tens of thousands of docs and pieces of info I am losing track of stuff..

FBI doc confirms GEOREF plotting system.

pathupdate.jpeg.ecc2227871d8c02009b453696b104ced.jpeg

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(edited)

7:19 in video

Himmelsbach.. Money was given to Cooper strapped in 100's and bundled with rubber bands..

"There were ten thousand twenty dollar bills assembled in straps of a hundred bills to a strap and individual straps held together with rubber bands."

 

FBI,, Bank advised that money was in a random sequence in packets of $2000 (100 bills) and held together with bank bands.

 

bankbandpackets.jpeg.8334a80932be81505d2ba776ec264536.jpeg

Edited by FLYJACK

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If the money went to Cooper in packets of 100 bills which were rubber banded into random sized bundles then how did the 3 TBAR packets get separated??

They didn't,, it is more likely the TBAR bundles were from one bundle.

 

FBI Finds one bundle of loot

VANCOUVER. Wash. UPl - Only one money bunrdle from the $200.000 hijack ransom given master criminal D.B. Cooper eight years ago has been found, the FBI said Thursday. 

 
“It’s all from one bundle,” said John Pringle, assistant special agent in charge of the Seattle FBI office. “We found more bits and pieces, nothing more.: Cooper had been given several "bundles" of money, the agent said.
 
He declined to say how many, adding that “There is certain information known only to us and the hijacker."
Edited by FLYJACK

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Eric seems to have thrown in the towel on the Placard, about time. That weakens his Western Flightpath argument to life support status.

But he blames the FBI instead of himself for not understanding the information and doing adequate unbiased research,,

The FBI investigation was consistent, the Placard was on the outside and could have fallen from any 727.

The Sheriff claimed it was from inside while at the same time the FBI rejected that.

Eric accepted the opinion of the Sheriff and rejected all the other evidence because it supported his narrative..

 

Likewise Georger fails to understand the money evidence and clings to perceived inconsistencies..

Those inconsistencies lie with Carr and Georger's perceptions.. not with the evidence.

 

Both Eric and Georger are blaming the FBI for their own inability to properly assess the evidence.

 

Now,, let's do Cooper's initial demand,,, Airstairs lowered inflight.

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Georger continues to make false claims..

He claims that my post above is my entire money argument and the basis for my view, it is not, there is much more.

Georger often uses this technique to discredit others.

By paraphrasing a partial, manipulated or even falsified representation of a contrary view he can more easliy attack it.

A straw-manning of sorts, wholly dishonest. He has done this for years...

 

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2 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

FBI doc confirms GEOREF plotting system.

Many thanks. The FBI stated that  "The first search area was calculated using a system of plotting known as "GEOREF" (i.e. Geographical Reference) which has a plotting error of plus or minus one mile. A new plotting system using a computer generated latitude and longitude has a plotting error plus or minus 1/2 mile."

However, if the FBI were using the term GEOREF as used today, to refer to the World Geographic Reference System, then their statement does not make sense.

GEOREF, as used today, is a system of definitions and has no intrinsic errors.

Errors only occur when something is measured. I imagine that the raw data from a radar plot would be expressed as two components: (1) a distance in nautical miles from the transmitter, and (2) a radial in degrees from e.g. true or magnetic north. For example, MALAY is 63.6 nm from SeaTac on the 197 degree radial (true); but an airplane at MALAY might be measured at a slightly different distance and radial, depending on the accuracy of the radar. The measurement error would carry over into any grid reference system that was used (e.g. MGRS or GEOREF), whether the translation was done manually or by computer; but the measurement error would not change.

So it doesn't make sense for the FBI to say that a different system, or using a computer, would reduce the error of the measurement. 

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(edited)
1 hour ago, DFS346 said:

Many thanks. The FBI stated that  "The first search area was calculated using a system of plotting known as "GEOREF" (i.e. Geographical Reference) which has a plotting error of plus or minus one mile. A new plotting system using a computer generated latitude and longitude has a plotting error plus or minus 1/2 mile."

However, if the FBI were using the term GEOREF as used today, to refer to the World Geographic Reference System, then their statement does not make sense.

GEOREF, as used today, is a system of definitions and has no intrinsic errors.

Errors only occur when something is measured. I imagine that the raw data from a radar plot would be expressed as two components: (1) a distance in nautical miles from the transmitter, and (2) a radial in degrees from e.g. true or magnetic north. For example, MALAY is 63.6 nm from SeaTac on the 197 degree radial (true); but an airplane at MALAY might be measured at a slightly different distance and radial, depending on the accuracy of the radar. The measurement error would carry over into any grid reference system that was used (e.g. MGRS or GEOREF), whether the translation was done manually or by computer; but the measurement error would not change.

So it doesn't make sense for the FBI to say that a different system, or using a computer, would reduce the error of the measurement. 

Maybe the first translation was visual and not data driven. The plot would be an estimate within a grid reference. 

 

gridest.jpeg.db7ffdb2d0eeaea4bf45a21a8c180663.jpeg

Edited by FLYJACK
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CKRET, Carr said..

"The money was then transported by SeaFirst bank security to a Seattle police detective who then drove it to the airport and handed over to NWA. The money was bundled in various counts so that no bundle was the same. Each bundle was secured by rubber band and different counts so that it appeared the money was hastily gathered."

This is correct but it was the bundles (groups of packets) not the individual packets (of 100 bills)

 

CKRET, Carr said..

"The money was packaged in varying amounts, so one bundle would have $500.00 another $1,000.00, there was no uniformity to it. I have been searching for the evidence report from the lab but have not found it yet, lots of files to go through. When I get it you'll be the second to know."

This is wrong, Carr confused the bundles (groups of packets) with individual packets (of 100 bills)

 

This is why the terms packets and bundles need to be crystal clear... Carr got them mixed up.

 

When the Bank guy told him the bundles were rubber banded and randomized he was referring to the bundles, not the packets... 

 

The packets in rubber bands vs bank bands is a red herring.. we are trying to determine if the TBAR money arrived as one bundle or individually.

Because we know the money was given to Cooper in packets of 100 bills and the individual packets were in rubber banded bundles...  it is more likely the TBAR money arrived in the same condition, one bundle.

The TBAR money arriving as one bundle of multiple packets changes the analysis. 

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9 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Now I recall,,, I have tens of thousands of docs and pieces of info I am losing track of stuff..

FBI doc confirms GEOREF plotting system.

pathupdate.jpeg.ecc2227871d8c02009b453696b104ced.jpeg

Follow up..

The GEOREF updated to include a new small area which was searched with negative results..

georef2.jpeg.cc253809e68fae774e7a9779afb33f8d.jpeg

newsearch1.jpeg.d8ff72a8c67869cb6bed349c0d3bae1e.jpeg

 

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(edited)

'New small area' is a bit of a misnomer. What you are looking at here is a search grid of seven square miles in wooded area. Years ago, I was a volunteer for Search and Rescue. And I can tell you with assurance that seven square miles is one hell of an area to search in wooded, heavy terrain, especially with a measly ten people to do it. In fact, it is mostly a waste of time. To do an effective search on an area of seven square miles in that kind of country, you need at least a hundred people to have a chance of finding ANYTHING. 

Back in 1997 I was involved in THIS SEARCH near Mt Index in Washington state. More than sixty people were in on this search for three men who vanished between the trailhead parking lot and Bridal Veil Falls. It is just over three miles between the parking lot and the falls, and the search never went more than a quarter mile off either side of the trail because it was known the men were headed up to camp at the falls. And the trail is well marked. This is far less of a search area than those ten FBI guys tried to do, so it doesn't surprise me at all they had no luck finding Cooper or any remains. Even bothering with a search as the FBI did using a mere ten agents, in my semi-pro opinion...was a complete waste of time. 

On the Mt Index search, we had teams of 15-20 people rotating in and out of base camp at the parking lot for two weeks, 24/7. Up to Bridal Veil Falls and back. Off to the sides. Up and down. Day after day. No one found a thing at first. The families even hired helicopters. Even I was surprised at our failure to find them. It was barely three miles up to Bridal Veil. Where the hell could they have gone?

On the eighth day or so, I finally asked some family members if they knew what time the hikers had arrived at the parking lot, and when they had left to hit the trail. (There was snow on the ground in places, but never got deep except in the open areas off the trail.) Family said they called from the parking lot at 230-3PM and said they were saddling up and leaving. 

That's when I realized the helicopters and the searchers going all the way to the falls were wasting their time. That time of year, it gets dark around 430-5PM. I knew these boys had not reached Bridal Veil and were somewhere closer to the parking lot because you cannot hike this trail in the dark, even with flashlights. (Searching with a bunch of people and a ton of light is another matter.) I went back up one more time and came to a spot where the trail crosses a steep canyon. I looked up there and then I looked DOWN the canyon. I also saw small trees that had been snapped off by a recent snow slide. And at that moment, I was sure they were down in the canyon and off the main trail. It would have been getting dark when they reached this point. I figured this out by calculating how long it took us to reach this spot, and adding that time to the time they left the parking lot. Bingo. They had probably said the heck with it for the day and set up camp nearby. 

But I couldn't convince the more senior searchers to assign the guys with the snow probes to go down the canyon there. Two weeks later, sure enough...they found the three men buried in their tent down there. And frankly, I got pissed off because the family kept wasting thousands of dollars on helicopters that were useless, because I saw there was no way they could have made it up to Bridal before dark, which is where the choppers kept searching. I have a lot of experience in the wilderness, and sometimes you have to put yourself in peoples' shoes in order to find them. (I did keep my opinions to myself, so as not to upset the families.) Looking up that canyon, you could see what happened. It was getting dark because they got a late start, so they went down the canyon a hundred yards or so and set up camp for the night. And the snow came like liquid concrete during the night. They actually suffocated in their tent under six or eight feet of heavy, wet snow. It was a sad thing. When I called up the map below, I was glad to see somebody established a memorial for them. First time I had seen that. 

Bottom line is:  It ain't easy to search out here in Washington for anybody, and if you do, you better bring one hell of a lot of people with you. If nobody's been back there to the FBI area to search since then, you can consider that area NOT SEARCHED. Not with ten guys. Not a chance in hell. 

Correction to map: It is actually about THREE miles between the parking lot and where the bodies were finally found, not TWO as I indicated on the map. But you are still talking an area of maybe three miles by a half mile...only one and a half square miles and searching with at least sixty experienced people. Yes. The FBI was wasting their time trying to do seven square miles with a mere ten guys. 

(Click on image to view full size. Hit your 'back arrow' button to return. Don't hit X or you'll leave the website.)

MtIndexSearch.jpg

Edited by RobertMBlevins
Clarifications

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