DB Cooper

[Math of Insects 95]

On 3/14/2024 at 4:47 PM, Chaucer said:

So, Cooper didn't sing the blues?

"I'm a back door man..."

[Chaucer 102]

9 hours ago, CooperNWO305 said:

*words*

 

 

Sounds like you didn't enjoy the episode.

Sorry about that.

Cheers!

[Cola 26]

10 hours ago, Math of Insects said:

"I'm a back door man..."

O-ya the Doors they're good too ...

 

Any one want to entertain the provocation of what kind of music Coop's listened to and why?

 

My take on the Blues is...

Aww geez Dontcha know, if Tina were spot on and Coops had mid-western sensibilities then - for crying out loud - his taste would have evolved worlds away from the blues.

(Aww geez ,Dontcha know, crying out loud - that's Minnesotan wholesome slang)

 

Anyone have any songs that bring Coops to mind?

 

Edited March 16 by Cola

[dudeman17 267]

 

[CooperNWO305 146]

Leaving the Vortex. Might be back someday. I still believe WJS is Cooper. Need two mods for Reddit, neutral people. If you think you should be one, you probably shouldn’t. IM me. Good luck all. 

[JAGdb 69]

13 hours ago, Cola said:

O-ya the Doors they're good too ...

 

Any one want to entertain the provocation of what kind of music Coop's listened to and why?

 

My take on the Blues is...

Aww geez Dontcha know, if Tina were spot on and Coops had mid-western sensibilities then - for crying out loud - his taste would have evolved worlds away from the blues.

(Aww geez ,Dontcha know, crying out loud - that's Minnesotan wholesome slang)

 

Anyone have any songs that bring Coops to mind?

 

This is a fun question and it requires a little bit of thought...

[Chaucer 102]

13 hours ago, Cola said:

Anyone have any songs that bring Coops to mind?

 

 

"Good bye to people I've trusted

I've got to go out and make my own way

I might get rich, you know, I might get busted..."

Edited March 17 by Chaucer

[Math of Insects 95]

On 3/16/2024 at 8:07 AM, Cola said:

O-ya the Doors they're good too ...

 

Howlin’ Wolf. The Doors were copycat hijackers.

[Cola 26]

16 hours ago, CooperNWO305 said:

Leaving the Vortex. Might be back someday. I still believe WJS is Cooper. Need two mods for Reddit, neutral people. If you think you should be one, you probably shouldn’t. IM me. Good luck all. 

We need you.

I think Chris used the metaphor of  "we all stand on the shoulders of giants". Ultimately all of us will help bring this case to a conclusion.

In this regard there is no question you are a contributor. No one doubts you are not invested or that you do not bring both unique insights and perspectives to the group.

This DNA and Stylometry stuff is not for everyone, but you seem to have a very good grasp on the technicals. 

I speak for myself in saying that I think there will be a deficiency here in the groups understanding if you were to pull away completely.

Take a few months off, but always know that whether your candidate is or is not Cooper ultimately your contributions  will help in some measure to resolve this case. 

Edited March 17 by Cola

[ParrotheadVol 70]

On 3/17/2024 at 12:48 AM, Chaucer said:

 

"Good bye to people I've trusted

I've got to go out and make my own way

I might get rich, you know, I might get busted..."

 

Steve Miller Band is a good choice....

 

 

Edited March 18 by ParrotheadVol

[Cola 26]

 

He was a nice boy - that belonged to a good Family... he's buried with the flowers now. 

(wise guy version)

 

[JAGdb 69]

For tongue and cheek, I'll throw out Leaving on Jet Plane by John Denver....

But as far as what music he listened to, it was a little tougher than I thought.  I was trying to figure out what music he was listening to as he was coming of age.  For me, I think I was set in my musical ways or taste by my late 20s.  If he was born roughly between 1920 and 1930, that puts him in his mid late 20s roughly between 1945 to 1955ish time frame.  So that kind of spans a dramatic shift in music from the end of the big band and crooner era into the early rock and roll era.  

In the end, I am going to go with the style of music that was more popular when he was younger man.  I think I can kind of see him listening to some "Old Blue Eyes"....I'm going with Sinatra. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised at all if before he left for "the job", he dropped the needle on a little "My Way" !  He certainly did this job his way....

 

By the way, this is all in good fun, I know he was a criminal and I don't mean to romanticize him like a hero or something.  Maybe some day we will find out just who he was !!!

 

Edited March 19 by JAGdb

[olemisscub 464]

 

[Cola 26]

15 hours ago, JAGdb said:

or me, I think I was set in my musical ways or taste by my late 20s.  If he was born roughly between 1920 and 1930, that puts him in his mid late 20s roughly between 1945 to 1955ish time frame.  So that kind of spans a dramatic shift in music from the end of the big band and crooner era into the early rock and roll era.  

 

Good thought on taste in music being formed by ones 20's. I think we all add songs in our repertoire well into our 50's but our taste are set by our 20's.

I think Coops was a Midwest - depression era child. Country and folk seemed to be on the rise in the 40's - 50's so my imagination would like to place Woody Guthrie Dust Bowl Ballads in Coops record collection maybe later in life he added some Johnny Cash. Who knows - a touch of melancholy, The rebel, all kinds of folksiness come to mind when I think on Coops.

 

Yes, agreed no question a criminal act.  Think on that, and I'll put another provocation question out on Friday. 

[JAGdb 69]

10 minutes ago, Cola said:

 

Good thought on taste in music being formed by ones 20's. I think we all add songs in our repertoire well into our 50's but our taste are set by our 20's.

I think Coops was a Midwest - depression era child. Country and folk seemed to be on the rise in the 40's - 50's so my imagination would like to place Woody Guthrie Dust Bowl Ballads in Coops record collection maybe later in life he added some Johnny Cash. Who knows - a touch of melancholy, The rebel, all kinds of folksiness come to mind when I think on Coops.

 

Yes, agreed no question a criminal act.  Think on that, and I'll put another provocation question out on Friday. 

Great points, I love the Midwest dust bowl angle and Johnny Cash suggestion is good one.

[Cola 26]

I'm 4 post back on your live streams. Thanks for posting.

(The DZ will always be XEROX- PARC in my book.)

Edited March 19 by Cola

[Math of Insects 95]

I just wanted to announce that from today on I plan to be only marginally and fitfully engaged with the Vortex, in a way that exactly matches how I have always been. 

[The Cooper Vortex 73]

New Episode out now! DB Cooper's Bomb with Sergeant Major Mike Vining, US Army Retired. 

https://thecoopervortex.podbean.com/e/db-coopers-bomb-sargent-major-mike-vining-us-army-retired/

Enjoy!

Edited March 20 by The Cooper Vortex
sPeLling is hARd

[georger 194]

10 hours ago, Math of Insects said:

I just wanted to announce that from today on I plan to be only marginally and fitfully engaged with the Vortex, in a way that exactly matches how I have always been. 

Stick around! I enjoy your thoughts!!! 

[CooperNWO305 146]

As promised. Video about the Clara letter. It’s about 45 minutes. The first 30 are about Stylometry and how it refutes the claims that Barb is Clara. The last 15 are on Barb in general. 
 

You should be able to play it at 1.25 or even 1.5 to get through it quicker. 
 

 

[Cola 26]

Provocation Fridays:

Just tossing some questions out there to explore a criminal act vs. a criminal man - all comments are welcome..

 

Leaving aside insanity, are there any scenarios where Cooper may engage in this criminal act and not be perceived as a criminal himself?

When does society tolerate criminal acts?

What conditions, scenarios or thresholds must be present for society to tolerate a criminal act?

Is criminality perceptual?

Is criminality conditional?

Is Cooper someone that could be trusted to hold your wallet, watch your kids, marry your daughter…?

Not that anyone need or should share - but just as a thought exercise has anyone ever been a victim of a crime that you would estimate as psychologically more severe than NORJACK turned out to be for the 35 passengers and 6 crew memebrs...

Edited March 22 by Cola

[Chaucer 102]

2 hours ago, Cola said:

Provocation Fridays:

Just tossing some questions out there to explore a criminal act vs. a criminal man - all comments are welcome..

 

Leaving aside insanity, are there any scenarios where Cooper may engage in this criminal act and not be perceived as a criminal himself?

I think that's the case now. He committed an act that today would be considered terrorism, and certainly extortion, robbery, and piracy. Yet, he's not viewed as a criminal by most, but a lovable rogue who didn't hurt anyone and put one over on The Man. 

When does society tolerate criminal acts?

When the "right" people get hurt. If it is greedy corporations or a disliked group of people or other criminals. People like it when a corporation gets ripped off or tricked. Look at the 2021 WallStreetBets incident. Some people like it when a group they dislike gets harmed. Say someone running their car through a group of protestors blocking the highway. And most people love seeing criminals get what's coming to them - even if it involves a criminal act of its own being perpetrated. Just google Gary Plauche. There is a high tolerance for crime as long it's the kind they like. 

What conditions, scenarios or thresholds must be present for society to tolerate a criminal act?

See above.

Is criminality perceptual?

A distinction needs to be made between legal and illegal and morally right and wrong. They are not always the same thing. Cooper robbing a wealthy airline of $200,000 might be viewed legally as a crime, but might be viewed by society as morally right. I'm Catholic. In my faith, missing Sunday Mass is a sin and is immoral. It obviously isn't a crime. 

Is criminality conditional?

See above. 

Is Cooper someone that could be trusted to hold your wallet, watch your kids, marry your daughter…?

My opinion is that Cooper was likely someone with a criminal record. I don't see a law abiding citizen suddenly decide to hijack a plane with a bomb, and if they did, they certainly wouldn't be calm and collected about it. It would likely be desperate, panicked, and end in bloodshed. That said, I've known criminals that I'd trust with my life. I've also known people with squeaky clean records that I wouldn't trust to walk my dog around the block. 

Not that anyone need or should share - but just as a thought exercise has anyone ever been a victim of a crime that you would estimate as psychologically more severe than NORJACK turned out to be for the 35 passengers and 6 crew memebrs...

I've never experienced violent crime. That said, I don't think this was a victimless crime as many like to say. It's easy to brush off emotional and psychological trauma. I don't think there's any doubt that the crew were harmed emotionally and psychologically by this crime. The passengers to a lesser degree. I also think the aftermath of this crime has had an effect as well. I think a lot of the crew - especially Tina due to her proximity to Cooper - had to deal with overzealous amateur sleuths. It was something she specifically mentioned in her RS interview. And as it became a pop culture, human interest story over the years, they had to relive it again and again. That's not easy. 

Again, just my opinion, and I'm not even sure if I answered your questions as you laid them out. 

 

Edited March 22 by Chaucer

[Cola 26]

3 hours ago, Chaucer said:

I don't think there's any doubt that the crew were harmed emotionally and psychologically by this crime.

 

What would you rather?

a) spend 5 hours with Cooper

b ) spend 1-6 years engaged in an agency investigation

c) or be harassed by obsessives every so often who would leave you well alone if you answered their questions. 

 

this is all free form and for fun, I am interested in seeing any insights that may percolate up and if there is a threshold or conditions which must be in place for society to tolerate criminal acts.

 

[Chaucer 102]

3 hours ago, Cola said:

 

What would you rather?

a) spend 5 hours with Cooper

b ) spend 1-6 years engaged in an agency investigation

c) or be harassed by obsessives every so often who would leave you well alone if you answered their questions. 

 

this is all free form and for fun, I am interested in seeing any insights that may percolate up and if there is a threshold or conditions which must be in place for society to tolerate criminal acts.

 

B. 

 

A requires me to be under threat of death.

C requires others to be under threat of death. 

[Cola 26]

12 hours ago, Chaucer said:

C requires others to be under threat of death. 

haha - touche

Noted don't pull a knock and talk on Chaucer.

I was going for a rhetorical post but you did git me thinking: there are questions, answers for questions, explanations to questions, then there are the Answers.