quade 0
Jo --
The information is not lost. It's simply locked so that no further changes can be made to it. This protects the information from being vandalized by miscreants and allows us to continue the discussion anew.
Good luck in your continued quest to find your answers, but I do think you should know that not everyone involved in the previous thread is your friend or has your best interests at heart.
The information is not lost. It's simply locked so that no further changes can be made to it. This protects the information from being vandalized by miscreants and allows us to continue the discussion anew.
Good luck in your continued quest to find your answers, but I do think you should know that not everyone involved in the previous thread is your friend or has your best interests at heart.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver
The World's Most Boring Skydiver
Ever been to a party crashed by people you wouldn’t entertain in your garden shed? You know the type. They walk through your house like they owned it, help themselves to what’s in the fridge, change the music to what they like, spill red wine and put out cigarettes on your carpets, treat your books and skydiving trophies like pieces of junk, leave wet rings on your lovingly-restored antique oak table, and miss the toilet bowl when they piss. And then, incredibly, are offended when you get irritated. Among that milieu is the sub-type who can talk for hours in a monotone about the many shades of metallic-flake paint, not noticing your eyes glazing over. When you move to a group of friends, he follows and butts in with the same topic, one so soporific that everyone mumbles politely and wanders off. When you survey the damage the next morning, you wish you hadn’t been quite so polite. Better to have grabbed ‘em by the scuff of the neck and run ‘em out of your house and off your property.
(There are some who may already have a sneaking suspicion where I’m heading with this.)
Dropzone.com is a clever idea, an enticing venue for skydivers to air all sorts of topics. But when non-skydivers arrogantly treat it as their own, not least because those it was designed for are too polite to tell ‘em to hit the road, then a problem is generated, one that becomes increasingly divisive. Especially so when it’s clear that their ‘contributions’ (inevitably larded with poor grammar, worse syntax, and flabby thinking) are sad efforts to draw attention to themselves in the company of people who, unlike themselves, actually understand the mechanics of aviation, parachute equipment, freefall, and meteorology. It’s those who do grasp those subjects, through the expenditure of time, passion, money and effort, that have earned (yes, earned is the right word) the right to contribute.
Going back to the beginning, you might reasonably ask if I socialize with non-skydivers? You bet I do. But they are articulate, engaging and fascinating people who have taken risks and pushed the envelope in their own fields of endeavor, certainly not wannabes who live dull troglodyte lives surrounded by fantasies they haven’t the moral, philosophical or physical courage to ever realize.
Like our much-burdened moderator, I wish the good ones fair winds in their quest.
And with that, I think I’ve said enough on the subject.
Hoop
(There are some who may already have a sneaking suspicion where I’m heading with this.)
Dropzone.com is a clever idea, an enticing venue for skydivers to air all sorts of topics. But when non-skydivers arrogantly treat it as their own, not least because those it was designed for are too polite to tell ‘em to hit the road, then a problem is generated, one that becomes increasingly divisive. Especially so when it’s clear that their ‘contributions’ (inevitably larded with poor grammar, worse syntax, and flabby thinking) are sad efforts to draw attention to themselves in the company of people who, unlike themselves, actually understand the mechanics of aviation, parachute equipment, freefall, and meteorology. It’s those who do grasp those subjects, through the expenditure of time, passion, money and effort, that have earned (yes, earned is the right word) the right to contribute.
Going back to the beginning, you might reasonably ask if I socialize with non-skydivers? You bet I do. But they are articulate, engaging and fascinating people who have taken risks and pushed the envelope in their own fields of endeavor, certainly not wannabes who live dull troglodyte lives surrounded by fantasies they haven’t the moral, philosophical or physical courage to ever realize.
Like our much-burdened moderator, I wish the good ones fair winds in their quest.
And with that, I think I’ve said enough on the subject.
Hoop
Orange1 0
Oh for crying out loud. Will everyone stop moaning at Quade? (obviously this isn't directly in response to quade's post 
) For the record I found it surprising that he took Ckret to task when I thought others had said far worse... but he is a moderator, this is a moderated site, and there are rules that apply to these forums. Anyone who posts here has implicitly accepted those rules. Now, can we all get off our high horses and get back to discussing DBCooper?
) For the record I found it surprising that he took Ckret to task when I thought others had said far worse... but he is a moderator, this is a moderated site, and there are rules that apply to these forums. Anyone who posts here has implicitly accepted those rules. Now, can we all get off our high horses and get back to discussing DBCooper?Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.
Reference 377's next-to-last post on the other thread:
377,
Take heart my friend, your efforts are not wasted, just because you didn’t find what you hoped for. Every avenue explored, every result obtained, moves us closer to the truth.
One of the issues that we have discussed (or at least I have discussed) is that in the 36 years since the event, the mythology has overwhelmed the facts. The facts in this case are elusive, and I don’t think they actually exist at this time. The closest thing to facts that this group of amateur sleuths can develop is the considered opinion of “experts”. Just like the one you quote in this post.
There is a (mostly unspoken) undercurrent in this thread that the original investigators (FBI and others) “botched the investigation”. Well, of course they did, they never found Cooper (dead or alive) or the bulk of the money. Hindsight, defines the character of the investigation. If they had used the exactly the same process that they used, but instead solved the crime, no one would say it was a “botched investigation”.
I am thankful that the FBI made the decision to assign Agent Carr to use a fresh approach. I’m also thankful that Agent Carr came on this thread to help us (to the extent he is allowed) speculate and search for the facts as best we can.
Now what we need is for all of us (agent Carr included) to hone our sense of intellectual honesty. If we are intellectually honest, we will make progress. If we hang onto our preconceived notions, we will only add more intellectual debris to the existing pile of confusing bits of data (mythology).
The fact that you started out to prove something that you truly believed (that saved radar data could pinpoint Cooper’s exit), and after consulting someone who has the expertise and historical experience to state conclusively no such data exist, then reported that result back to us, speaks loudly to your intellectual honesty.
Pick your next pet theory and keep digging, your value to this armchair investigation (no offense to those who have actually put boots-on-the-ground) is to investigate and report, not to be correct in all assumptions.
BTW: The post with the radar image of Cooper is just a bunch of “bulls—t”. Everybody knows the plane was travelling south, not east.
Sluggo_Monster
Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum
377,
Take heart my friend, your efforts are not wasted, just because you didn’t find what you hoped for. Every avenue explored, every result obtained, moves us closer to the truth.
One of the issues that we have discussed (or at least I have discussed) is that in the 36 years since the event, the mythology has overwhelmed the facts. The facts in this case are elusive, and I don’t think they actually exist at this time. The closest thing to facts that this group of amateur sleuths can develop is the considered opinion of “experts”. Just like the one you quote in this post.
There is a (mostly unspoken) undercurrent in this thread that the original investigators (FBI and others) “botched the investigation”. Well, of course they did, they never found Cooper (dead or alive) or the bulk of the money. Hindsight, defines the character of the investigation. If they had used the exactly the same process that they used, but instead solved the crime, no one would say it was a “botched investigation”.
I am thankful that the FBI made the decision to assign Agent Carr to use a fresh approach. I’m also thankful that Agent Carr came on this thread to help us (to the extent he is allowed) speculate and search for the facts as best we can.
Now what we need is for all of us (agent Carr included) to hone our sense of intellectual honesty. If we are intellectually honest, we will make progress. If we hang onto our preconceived notions, we will only add more intellectual debris to the existing pile of confusing bits of data (mythology).
The fact that you started out to prove something that you truly believed (that saved radar data could pinpoint Cooper’s exit), and after consulting someone who has the expertise and historical experience to state conclusively no such data exist, then reported that result back to us, speaks loudly to your intellectual honesty.
Pick your next pet theory and keep digging, your value to this armchair investigation (no offense to those who have actually put boots-on-the-ground) is to investigate and report, not to be correct in all assumptions.
BTW: The post with the radar image of Cooper is just a bunch of “bulls—t”. Everybody knows the plane was travelling south, not east.
Sluggo_Monster
Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum
Quote from me in the old thread:
I'm just one of those people who don't want to go where I'm not wanted!
That’s it for me. I’m outta here!
Anyone who sets up another site/forum/thread and wants my input, I can be reached at walkertrainathotmail.com.
I will try not to let this experience change the way I feel about skydivers. I know that the most of you are great people that recognize that there are just too many hobbies out there for everybody to participate in yours.
It’s a shame that some of your ranks, feel that skydiving isn’t a hobby, but a religion (and they are the priest). I pity you! Maybe, someday you’ll learn that the value of a human is not found in the “numbers”, but in the character of their souls.
Good luck,
Sluggo_Monster
Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum
I'm just one of those people who don't want to go where I'm not wanted!
That’s it for me. I’m outta here!
Anyone who sets up another site/forum/thread and wants my input, I can be reached at walkertrainathotmail.com.
I will try not to let this experience change the way I feel about skydivers. I know that the most of you are great people that recognize that there are just too many hobbies out there for everybody to participate in yours.
It’s a shame that some of your ranks, feel that skydiving isn’t a hobby, but a religion (and they are the priest). I pity you! Maybe, someday you’ll learn that the value of a human is not found in the “numbers”, but in the character of their souls.
Good luck,
Sluggo_Monster
Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum
ltdiver 0
QuoteReference 377's next-to-last post on the other thread:
Just a little suggestion here. If there is reference to the other thread it would help everyone reading here if you referenced post number. Some people have their settings different in how many posts per page are on the screen, and thus throws the page number reference off. But post numbers remain the same.
I've enjoyed
ltdiver
Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon
And here is the link to the original thread in case it gets bumped down and off page 1, for quick reference.
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=2540834;page=68;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=2540834;page=68;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;
"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban
Albert18 0
I don't agree that the FBI necessarily botched this investigation back in the 70's. I have a high opinion of the abilities of Cooper and I think the case is unsolved because of the decisions he made when he committed this crime.
It was an audacious crime. Think about what he did.
When he gave Flo the note, he really was telling the FBI that he was going to commit a crime, what kind of crime it was going to be, and where he could be found committing the crime. The crime then took many hours to unfold. Then he disappeared into the night.
I think Cooper knew what had to happen for him to get away with this crime. He knew he had to cut it close to the edge and that is what he did. I think he knew he risked being killed by the jump but he also knew that if he walked away from the landing, his chances were very good.
The Dan Cooper case is one of the most fascinating crimes of the 20th century. If Cooper's identity was revealed tomorrow, the news would make the front page of newspapers around the world. So I am completely baffled by the hostile reception this discussion has received on this forum. Because of the nature of the crime, a discussion of it belongs on any aviation forum, skydiving forum, and crime forum.
I really think there is only one way to find out the identity of Dan Cooper. Have the indictment of Dan Cooper pulled so he can come in from the cold. If he is still alive then he beat the odds and while he doesn't deserve a ticker tape parade, he does deserve the spirit of the statute of limitations be upheld.
It was an audacious crime. Think about what he did.
When he gave Flo the note, he really was telling the FBI that he was going to commit a crime, what kind of crime it was going to be, and where he could be found committing the crime. The crime then took many hours to unfold. Then he disappeared into the night.
I think Cooper knew what had to happen for him to get away with this crime. He knew he had to cut it close to the edge and that is what he did. I think he knew he risked being killed by the jump but he also knew that if he walked away from the landing, his chances were very good.
The Dan Cooper case is one of the most fascinating crimes of the 20th century. If Cooper's identity was revealed tomorrow, the news would make the front page of newspapers around the world. So I am completely baffled by the hostile reception this discussion has received on this forum. Because of the nature of the crime, a discussion of it belongs on any aviation forum, skydiving forum, and crime forum.
I really think there is only one way to find out the identity of Dan Cooper. Have the indictment of Dan Cooper pulled so he can come in from the cold. If he is still alive then he beat the odds and while he doesn't deserve a ticker tape parade, he does deserve the spirit of the statute of limitations be upheld.
There's a statute of limitations for pursuing charges of hijacking an airliner? Or was that in jest? 
"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban
mark 6
QuoteThere's a statute of limitations for pursuing charges of hijacking an airliner?
Yes, 5 years for non-fatal hijacking.
There's also a statute of limitations for passing the money.
So Cooper could have gotten rich writing a book or selling the movie rights -- "Son of Sam" laws preventing criminals from profiting by selling the stories weren't enacted until 1977 and later. The fact that he hasn't come forward is evidence pointing toward his death.
Mark
Albert18 0
If he came forward he could still be prosecuted. They basically indicted the name "Dan Cooper" so the statute of limitations don't apply. It is a weird legal technicality.
After all these years he is still a hot potato.
After all these years he is still a hot potato.
quade 0
QuoteHave the indictment of Dan Cooper pulled so he can come in from the cold.
And how would the judicial system deal with the flood of people that would simply claim to have been DB Cooper in order to become rich or go down in history? How would they deal with the delusional ones living out a fantasy life that might actually think they are DB Cooper?
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver
The World's Most Boring Skydiver
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