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(edited)
5 hours ago, The Cooper Vortex said:

Thanks for listening Flyjack. I hope to have you on the show one day. 

I have all of your episodes except the one about Duane, but I did listen to it. They exist on a flash drive for when we were doing the Cooper Campouts (pre-Covid) and after Covid came along and I had to cancel one or two of those parties, then I just used the same flash drive to keep adding the episodes. 

The second Covid shot I got last Thursday kicked my behind for a day or two, but I am fine now. When I checked my email this morning, I got several emails from people expressing their disappointment that Greg and I (mostly Greg, since frankly he was doing 80% of the financing) had canceled the June festival. Some of these people strongly urged me to reconsider, and give it until at least April before doing that. 

And although Greg requested I just ditch everything from the internet about the festival, I told him today that I had NOT deleted the two festival pages from AB, but had merely made them not-visible. They weren't actually deleted. Same with the video at YouTube, although I did delete from Facebook and Quora. 

In order to reconcile all this, I am meeting with Greg in person tomorrow. (Sunday) We're going to discuss this lack of input from Cooperland. The situation right now is that we have TWO confirmed, absolutely-showing-up speakers, or three if you count yours truly. But it has also occurred to me that we could run some of your podcast episodes and stop/start them along the way and do discussions on certain points, as we hear them in a particular episode. I only thought of this today. With the number of people already interviewed for the podcast....practically everyone and anyone who has anything to do with Cooper has been interviewed...and that is a great deal of material...more than you could cover unless you had a week to do it. 

I plan to make a pitch to Greg tomorrow regarding all of this. What that entails is to make any festival more into something less formal. Maybe we just bring our stuff and toss open the gates to anyone who wishes to attend, as long as they can prove they've had both doses of the vaccine. Show your card...you get in. We could drop the amounts of the Lookalike prizes to something reasonable, just in case the number of people who actually show up are less than expected. For example, we used to get between (8 - our disaster at Mt Hood) up to about 25-30 people, (ones we held in the Olympics). Sounds to me like if it were June right now, and nothing changed between then and now...that we would still get about 40-50 people max. Maybe I made a bigger deal of this event than necessary, and wanted to spend money (that isn't mine) thinking we could do up to maybe 200 attendees, which seems unlikely now. 

As far as 'Cooper speakers and Cooper material,' we can use the podcasts and the three speakers we have now. This is what I will pitch to Greg tomorrow. We also have the Cooper movie, the comedy with Treat Williams, the Decoded episode, and a few TV episodes on Cooper recorded onto flash drives on on DVD.

LOL...he will be expecting this pitch because he reads this thread occasionally, too. (Hi Greg!) 

I will update tomorrow evening on whatever is decided. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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(edited)

Another good example of bad info used to create a false conclusion is Ulis's refusal to acknowledge the fact that Cooper initially demanded the rear airstairs to be lowered in flight...

I have been saying this for a long time but nobody seems to grasp the significance. Long held belief's are tough to change even when contradicted by facts.

Forever, we were told by the media and FBI that Cooper demanded airstairs lowered on takeoff and based on that it is reasonable to infer that Cooper wanted to jump fairly soon...  even I thought Cooper wanted to jump ASAP until I discovered info in the 302's that state his initial demand was actually airstairs lowered in flight. 

The pilot transcripts and more recent FBI files show that Cooper did initially demand for airstairs to be lowered in flight. He changed his demand during Reno negotiations with the crew.

The fact that Cooper initially demanded airstairs lowered in flight demonstrates that he did not initially want to jump ASAP... the facts contradict Ulis's argument.

Ulis determined after careful study of the FBI 302's that Cooper wanted to jump near Seattle... well apparently he didn't study the 302's very well.. they don't support that argument, they contradict it.

 

Cooper had a plan when he made his initial demands, that plan changed when the negotiations with crew had the plane landing in Reno. He didn't want to be on the plane landing in Reno. 

Edited by FLYJACK

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(edited)
2 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Another good example of bad info used to create a false conclusion is Ulis's refusal to acknowledge the fact that Cooper initially demanded the rear airstairs to be lowered in flight...

I have been saying this for a long time but nobody seems to grasp the significance. Long held belief's are tough to change even when contradicted by facts.

Forever, we were told by the media and FBI that Cooper demanded airstairs lowered on takeoff and based on that it is reasonable to infer that Cooper wanted to jump fairly soon...  even I thought Cooper wanted to jump ASAP until I discovered info in the 302's that state his initial demand was actually airstairs lowered in flight. 

The pilot transcripts and more recent FBI files show that Cooper did initially demand for airstairs to be lowered in flight. He changed his demand during Reno negotiations with the crew.

The fact that Cooper initially demanded airstairs lowered in flight demonstrates that he did not initially want to jump ASAP... the facts contradict Ulis's argument.

Ulis determined after careful study of the FBI 302's that Cooper wanted to jump near Seattle... well apparently he didn't study the 302's very well.. they don't support that argument, they contradict it.

Cooper had a plan when he made his initial demands, that plan changed when the negotiations with crew had the plane landing in Reno. He didn't want to be on the plane landing in Reno. 

All well and good...except for ONE thing. Then why DID Cooper jump just about as quickly as he could prepare the money bag, get the chute on, and get the door open? (If he was planning to go to Mexico, he only made it maybe a hundred miles as the crow flies from Seattle)

Flight left Seattle at 7:40 PM and Cooper was out the back door about 33-35 minutes later. Not to say this is evidence that KC was the hijacker, but our investigation definitely concluded that Bernie Geestman went to his shop property in Oakville, WA one or two days prior to the hijacking. And that KC accompanied him. Oakville is somewhat south of Seattle.

Our thought is that Cooper, if he were indeed KC, wanted out the door even faster than he managed it, and probably planned to meet up with Geestman just south of Olympia somewhere. But even a delay of a few minutes, with the jet traveling at three miles a minute put him south of his target. Everything takes longer than you expect, as that Murphy Law goes. Such as tying up a money bag, figuring out how an airstair door operates, and putting on a chute, maybe even a pair of boots.

I will put up a picture that sort of demonstrates what I mean. 

In other news: After a long phone conference with Greg the Techie Guy, wading through a dozen disappointed emails, etc...and a meeting scheduled with him tomorrow afternoon....he instructed me to make certain extensive changes to the two pages at the AB website about the festival, and to RESTORE those pages. I have done that, and sent notices to the disappointed people. We have tossed the event open to anyone and everyone over 21, with the only requirement being to show proof of vaccination when you get there. Much was cut from the two pages, and some was added. I have also cut the budget, and we will no longer require a paid host. The prizes for the Lookalike contest will reflect the number of people we now expect to show up. Some episodes of Darren's podcast will be used at the event. With proper credit. 

The Oregon trip B) is officially canceled. The Cooper party is now on again. It didn't need cancellation. It needed some sensible modifications and changes to the FAQ's. We expect maybe 50-80 people will probably show up in June. If it doesn't go past 75 people, we don't even need the group permit. I also restored the YouTube video, but I will probably shoot another one soon that more represents the event realistically. I did make some changes to the opening text, the stuff you put below the video to describe it. 

JumpMap1.jpg

This illustration was done some time ago. We will stipulate for Flyjack that Cooper did NOT ask for the stairs to be lowered for takeoff. You can ignore that part. I could have smart-erased it, I suppose. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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(edited)

From Shutter recently, (who DEFINITELY keeps track of every post here):

Quote

"I question the involvement of Greg as well. how would you dump thousands into something and allow someone to speak the way Robert does? he keeps emailing Bruce like it's nothing. expecting him to just jump on the train as well. you can see in Bryan's email that Robert DEMANDED Bruce not be allowed at Ariel and yet it makes it appear it was all Bryan's doings. actually, at one point he banned this whole site from Ariel. it's an endless loop of crap..."

Robert replies: Another load of BS being foisted off on Cooper fans by you. Greg has been on the AB staff for 18 years now, and my friend since about 1982. He will support anything, within reason, I ask him to do for Adventure Books. 

I quit emailing Bruce a while back. He was offered a hefty sum to host the Cooper event in June. Sound like I hate the guy? Of course I don't, even though he stretched the truth to the breaking point when he claimed I threatened him at the last Ariel party in 2016. I notice you never asked him about that. Meyer Louie and I also drove 45 miles to his house in the dead of night to make sure he was okay. Sound like hate to you? I had better things to do on a work night, you know. And we weren't the ONLY ones worried about Bruce. The cops had done a welfare check on him the day before, we found out. 

Bryan Woodruff was not being truthful in his email. I pointed out some negative crap (as usual) being posted to your forum about the party, on the sole reason that we were sponsoring it. Which was a pretty pathetic thing to do, since we put up two grand of our own money to help Bryan, and he probably walked away with close to double that amount in his own pocket. None of you even tried to help him or the store except Mark M ('377') who made a donation on the side.

I don't enjoy speaking ill of the dead, but Bryan was drinking far too much the day prior to the party, and it probably affected his judgment. The part of all that where I said he shook my hand and his main girl Tina S gave me a hug before I left to go home was true. Why he said all those bad things about me the very next day after he pocketed all that money we helped him raise...well, I couldn't tell you that. He sure didn't refuse those big handfuls of cash I kept running up to him from the cook area, the results of the auction and the donation jars. He was all smiles.

In our opinion, he was ungrateful at best. He could be your friend one minute, and hate you the next. He was, as they say...mercurial. And the most defensive person I ever met. Hell, I even helped him and his girl Tina to move all the pot plants out of sight prior to the party. Baby, that's loyalty to a cause. B)

Anything having to do with Bryan banning anybody from the store was Bryan's thing. You guys posted up a LOT of garbage just prior to the 2016 party. Bryan saw it all. I guess once he was finished using us...he went over to you when we were no longer of use to him. That is the hard truth. You guys did NOT help the situation with your night-before-the-party negativity postings. I can tell you that with assurance. Later, when Bruce DID show up, Bryan asked me if he should be allowed to come on in. (As if that was my choice) I said sure..why not? But Bryan didn't do it. 

I will never visit that place down in Ariel again, no matter who the owner is now. 

Bryan wasn't a bad guy, but he did have personal issues going. I brought two 48-packs of that generic Costco beer for the event, and Bryan went through 30 of them the night before the party. You don't know him like we do. And what we found out was that our money and effort to help the store was wasted on him. Dona Elliott would never have done stuff to us like HE did. Rest her soul.  

You have a few emails. I was actually there. 

Parrothead Vol, replying to Shutter, says this:

Quote

"Let's be honest here. If Blevins had a long list of people ready to come to that campout, he wouldn't have cancelled it. Instead of just admitting that no one was interested, he wants to blame others for it not happening. If he had 100 people committed to coming, he wouldn't give a damn if anyone over here wanted to participate or not. It's that simple."

Well, your numbers are wrong. We had 33 committed out of about 200 that contacted us via the public form. And those other 167 people can still show up, (they still get the email updates) only now we told them they don't need to register. Just come as you are, as Nirvana once said...and bring your vaccine card.

You are NOT being completely honest here. It was said time and again that NO ONE WOULD BE EXCLUDED. That means NO ONE. I said that many times. It was Greg who wanted to cancel, not me. It is HIS money financing it (80% anyway, and I am providing most of the gear). He wondered if we would get enough people by April (news articles come out then) to justify the budget. (I was on the phone today with him for over two hours discussing alternatives and a smaller budget, and we meet in person tomorrow.) Greg had seen that after three months, only a couple of people in Cooperland (authors, investigators, etc not the general public) were interested. Greg started having doubts. As far as participating, I am well aware most of you live far from Washington state. I didn't expect you to hop on a jet and rent a 4x4 once you arrived. B) Mainly I wanted to offer you the opportunity to have your websites, your books, your theories promoted and presented to the public, and possibly the media if they show up. As it turns out, Darren Schaefer has made that very possible since he's interviewed damn near everyone anyway. We now have three speakers if you include me, and the podcasts. That will be more than enough for our purposes. I should have thought of this a while ago. My bad. 

We have made adjustments, as you probably know by now. No one has to sign up to go, or get on any lists to attend. (The only advantage to signing up is that we send you the Official Program with the maps, etc a few weeks prior. Otherwise you have to download the file TWO DAYS prior when we post it to the AB site.) Anyone who shows up on June 11...all they need is a copy of their Covid vaccination record, since this is a Covid-free event. This is not a big deal, and is already being done by some other organizations. It might even become part of a job application soon by some companies. 

We've scaled down the Cooper Party to a more reasonable level and we now have plenty of Cooper material to present. You can still participate if you wish by sending in your own stuff to us, but we are okay with what we have now. I have notified everyone on that list of 33 names that the party has shifted a bit, but it will go on nonetheless. Same notice to the VIP email list. We just have a more relaxed attitude about it now, except for the vaccine requirement, which is absolutely non-negotiable. I also sent notices to most of the people who came to the smaller 'Cooper Campouts' we used to do in the Olympics. I'm sure enough people will show up to have a lot of fun. Trying for 200-250 people was probably beyond our reach anyway. I guess I like to think big. I told Greg today that by mid-April, when the newspaper articles come out, we will probably have more than 33 people (plus some of the old 'Cooper Campout' folks) who will show up. I added that more will probably do the same thing after reading the articles. He felt better after I said that. ¬¬

Our biggest problem organizing this whole thing hasn't been you guys, or your lack of support. We're fine with that. Let's be real. Most of you didn't support our effort at the 2016 Ariel, or any of the prior 'Cooper Campouts'. We didn't figure things would be any different this time. The biggest problem is doing this during a pandemic, and when many people are more worried where their next rent or house payment is coming from, rather than the Cooper case. 

Don't you guys have anything better to do than to pick on every public thing we do? Get a life for chrissakes. :handok:

 

Edited by RobertMBlevins
some clarifications

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(edited)

Meyer Louie has said today he's coming to the June event and would like a speaking slot. No problem. I'm putting him on the Planning Committee email list and giving him a small budget for expenses. He has moved from where he was down in Olympia, although I'm not going to make that public. (Where he lives now.) You would have to ask him on your own. 

This is great. I haven't seen him in person since we made that run up to Bruce's house to check up and see if Bruce was okay. 

Yes, yes....Shutter. I did look at your site this morning and saw your post at your silly 'The Truth About Spring' page. Or was that 'The Truth About the Ariel Conflict' stuff? I'm always forgetting what you call that load of junk. Only you would take time to create a special webpage with only one goal. To pack it full of BS and try to defend the indefensible. Try to tell people that you don't have an obsession going. When it comes to creating webpages especially about AB or myself...you have an obsession. No worries. You can get help for that. ^.^

The reason Smith was told that he would be removed from the Ariel Store property if he showed up was because that's what Bryan decided, not me. I never even saw Bruce, although I heard he was up the road a ways. I was far too busy cooking for people and other things.

As it turned out, Bruce LIED to Meyer Louie and said he WASN'T banned from the store. He did this to get a free ride to Ariel. When Meyer arrived, he got pretty angry with Bruce for lying to him like that. Meyer came to the party and I made sure he got something to eat. But with Bruce having to sit there a hundred yards out on a damn guard rail, waiting to see if Bryan Woodruff would relent, Meyer felt obligated to take him back to town...and as a result Meyer missed the party and had to drive Bruce home. I'm sure it was an interesting ride, which meant a drive for Meyer all the way to Eatonville, and then back to Olympia to HIS house. Probably 200 miles total. 

The whole series of events that led up to all of that junk was perpetuated by you and a few other forum members harping on one thing after another simply because Adventure Books of Seattle was sponsoring the 2016 Ariel party. You just couldn't stop with the disparaging comments. Some of which I finally started responding to at Facebook. Five years later, and you are worse than ever. Still going on about it...still coming after us even about this particular event in June. Still slapping together crappy web pages, blah blah blah. 

Of course, you do this at a site where you know I cannot respond. How convenient for you.

We have to stop meeting at Dropzone like this. People will talk. B)

On a more positive note, I decided that the video below is my all-time favorite on the Cooper case. It is just done so well, and very professionally. Almost like the creator was a known investigator in the case, which I don't believe he is. But he could be. (Actually, he's a Swede and has a listing at Wikitubia, the Wikipedia version of YouTubers who have at least a thousand subscribers.)

 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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(edited)

There's been so much bickering on this forum lately that I thought it was time for some GOOD news. 

Met with Greg the Techie Guy today and we worked out most of the major details regarding the June Cooper party, including a realistic budget. After we loosened the rules, cut the fluff from the AB of Seattle pages, and made a few posts elsewhere...messages requesting to attend are starting to trickle in again. Anyone who thinks it's easy, or believes they can do better hosting a Cooper event for the 50th anniversary...you are welcome to step up to the plate and try. And we wish you good luck. B)

Ever since we started this project three months ago, there have been hurdles. One of the biggest was the pandemic, not the supplies or logistics. That was normal work. What this event needed was good planning and the personal touch from the people involved in organizing it. My thanks go out to several people, including Phoebe, Gayla, Kyle, and especially Greg the Techie Guy, who chooses to remain anonymous in Cooperland to everyone except the people he trusts. 

Greg and I spent an hour or two discussing the budget. I told him about the gear we already had, and what we needed. Or what we could get by without. I agreed to buy a few necessary things on my own, and he agreed to boost the prizes for the Cooper Character Lookalike Contest. My argument was that the contest would actually be the biggest draw, because it lets people dress up and have fun for a chance at some real money. Well, Amazon gift cards anyway. 

I think this new plan will work out fine, and the main object will be achieved. Cooper fans will have the time of their lives, the ones with the courage to actually make the trip. 

And they can put that Covid crap in their back pocket and forget it, at least for a weekend. :thumbup:

 

CooperCampsite23D.jpg

This is my favorite answer I did for our FAQ's for this one:

Quote

Can I bring my dog?

ANSWER: We thought about this for a long time. And we had to say no. The reason is because if you have a dog along on a camping trip, most dogs will bark all night at anything they hear in the woods. On one of our smaller 'Cooper Campouts' from previous years, we allowed dogs and it was a nightmare. No one got any sleep. Sorry, no dogs are allowed onsite. Cats are okay. But if you bring your cat along, make sure it doesn't get away from you and become a coyote's meal, because it certainly will. 

I do try to give it to people straight most of the time. B) 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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The western flight path theory has holes in it bigger than Georger's ego..

Eric keeps making claims of fact which are not so.

The wind data that R99 and Ulis claim is so far from the placard find location it is meaningless. The closest data is Toledo and had wind from the South. Their wind drift analysis is complete nonsense yet they tout it as fact.

Ulis claims the FBI confirmed the Hick's placard came from NORJAK, they did not. In fact, they said after getting the location on the plane from NWA that the placard came from the outside AND that it could have fallen off any passing 727.. ANY PASSING 727.

There are only two internal emergency airstair release systems on the 727,,

The separate optional emergency release which has its own panel.. a handle is pulled inward and a lock wire breaks. That description is close to the placard.. NORJAK did not have this system.

The other emergency system is built into the main handle and to activate it the lever is pushed outward.. that does not match the Hick's placard WHATSOEVER..

The Hick's placard did not come from inside NORJAK,,, I believe it was for the exterior emergency release and could have fallen off any 727. There are other problems with the placard but why beat a dead horse..

The other part found,, Eric keeps claiming it came from NORJAK but the FBI rejected it. Eric keeps referring to it as fiberglass,, it was never identified as fiberglass. There is no indication it came from NORJAK.

The other big claim is that the plane must have passed over TBAR because their is no way for the money to get their from the "FBI" central flightpath. This is just poor logic, self serving and goal seeking. Just because we can't confirm how the money got there doesn't mean the flightpath is wrong..

I have been working on an entirely new TBAR theory that breaks open how the money could have moved to TBAR,, it maintains the "FBI" flightpath, the jumpzone and puts the money into the Columbia River in spring matching the diatoms while the money find spot was about 6 feet underwater. The money went into the River in Spring, sank and rolled along the bottom to its spot. That spot was 6 feet underwater at the event time. Effectively that spot was the bottom of the River, the money didn't need to wash to the surface or up to the shore..

 

There is overwhelming evidence supporting the "FBI" flighpath and all the arguments for the western flightpath are either factually wrong or extremely weak speculation.

The western flightpath is dead, stick a fork in it. Somebody, Anybody.

 

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1 hour ago, FLYJACK said:

The western flight path theory has holes in it bigger than Georger's ego..

Eric keeps making claims of fact which are not so.

The wind data that R99 and Ulis claim is so far from the placard find location it is meaningless. The closest data is Toledo and had wind from the South. Their wind drift analysis is complete nonsense yet they tout it as fact.

Ulis claims the FBI confirmed the Hick's placard came from NORJAK, they did not. In fact, they said after getting the location on the plane from NWA that the placard came from the outside AND that it could have fallen off any passing 727.. ANY PASSING 727.

There are only two internal emergency airstair release systems on the 727,,

The separate optional emergency release which has its own panel.. a handle is pulled inward and a lock wire breaks. That description is close to the placard.. NORJAK did not have this system.

The other emergency system is built into the main handle and to activate it the lever is pushed outward.. that does not match the Hick's placard WHATSOEVER..

The Hick's placard did not come from inside NORJAK,,, I believe it was for the exterior emergency release and could have fallen off any 727. There are other problems with the placard but why beat a dead horse..

The other part found,, Eric keeps claiming it came from NORJAK but the FBI rejected it. Eric keeps referring to it as fiberglass,, it was never identified as fiberglass. There is no indication it came from NORJAK.

The other big claim is that the plane must have passed over TBAR because their is no way for the money to get their from the "FBI" central flightpath. This is just poor logic, self serving and goal seeking. Just because we can't confirm how the money got there doesn't mean the flightpath is wrong..

I have been working on an entirely new TBAR theory that breaks open how the money could have moved to TBAR,, it maintains the "FBI" flightpath, the jumpzone and puts the money into the Columbia River in spring matching the diatoms while the money find spot was about 6 feet underwater. The money went into the River in Spring, sank and rolled along the bottom to its spot. That spot was 6 feet underwater at the event time. Effectively that spot was the bottom of the River, the money didn't need to wash to the surface or up to the shore..

 

There is overwhelming evidence supporting the "FBI" flighpath and all the arguments for the western flightpath are either factually wrong or extremely weak speculation.

The western flightpath is dead, stick a fork in it. Somebody, Anybody.

 

FlyJack's claim as to how the money got to Tina Bar is complete nonsense.  If the money rolled along the bottom of the Columbia River, it would have ended up in the shipping channel on the west side of the river.  And it would have stayed in that channel as it went past Tina Bar.  Dream on!

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2 minutes ago, Robert99 said:

FlyJack's claim as to how the money got to Tina Bar is complete nonsense.  If the money rolled along the bottom of the Columbia River, it would have ended up in the shipping channel on the west side of the river.  And it would have stayed in that channel as it went past Tina Bar.  Dream on!

Not true and a really poor guess Robert99.. TBAR's location made it a dump for garbage..

The River flow hits Sauvie curves right picking up velocity and runs straight at TBAR.. now imagine the money spot about 6 feet underwater..

 

To make a claim that the money coming from the River flow is nonsense... is literally INSANE.

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On 5/18/2020 at 11:39 AM, FLYJACK said:

They weren't loafers and the crew never called them loafers,, the term loafers came from Tina saying "not tie type shoes" loafers was added and the media ran with it.

Tina actual said "ankle length" that is not a loafer.

Everyone knows a packet is a group of 100 bills, and everyone knows an ankle length pebble grain shoe is NOT a loafer.

notloafers.jpeg.35377f8c8d8b43b0a3a8e4e2947d9613.jpeg

 

They weren't loafers, that was the media description, not Tina.

"ankle length pebble grain shoes, not the tie type"... ARE NOT LOAFERS

 

Hahneman was a 49 YO smoker, diagnosed with terminal cancer,, he leapt with money from 9000 feet after landing walked 10 miles through the jungle...  he had a very minor injury.

 

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(edited)
4 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Not true and a really poor guess Robert99.. TBAR's location made it a dump for garbage..

The River flow hits Sauvie curves right picking up velocity and runs straight at TBAR.. now imagine the money spot about 6 feet underwater..

 

To make a claim that the money coming from the River flow is nonsense... is literally INSANE.

You need to read your own post #63258 above.  If the money was ever in the river it was going to head downhill on the river bottom and that means it would soon end up in the 40 foot deep shipping channel.

Your remarks about the flight path are also a bunch of baloney.

And Tina Bar is not a garbage dump.  It is obvious that you have never been there.

Edited by Robert99

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10 minutes ago, Robert99 said:

You need to read your own post #63258 above.  If the money was ever in the river it was going to head downhill on the river bottom and that means it would soon end up in the 40 foot deep shipping channel.

Your remarks about the flight path are also a bunch of baloney.

And Tina Bar is not a garbage dump.  It is obvious that you have never been there.

You have no clue what you are talking about most of the time..

I have everything correct. 

If there is anything wrong, challenge it with facts otherwise your comments are just useless beliefs.

 

You spent a decade plus on one theory, the Western Flight Path,,, based on the facts that theory has no merit. Take the L and move on.

Trying to discredit others with completley INSANE claims to protect your ego won't fly..

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45 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

You have no clue what you are talking about most of the time..

I have everything correct. 

If there is anything wrong, challenge it with facts otherwise your comments are just useless beliefs.

 

You spent a decade plus on one theory, the Western Flight Path,,, based on the facts that theory has no merit. Take the L and move on.

Trying to discredit others with completley INSANE claims to protect your ego won't fly..

"I have everything correct." is a bullshit claim.  You have everything wrong.  You need to work on getting your own ego under control.

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5 minutes ago, Robert99 said:

"I have everything correct." is a bullshit claim.  You have everything wrong.  You need to work on getting your own ego under control.

Nope,,  I just have no patience for you,, pushing the same nonsense theory and when confronted with facts you just ignore them...

Your "facts" are wrong... your argument is bogus... the Placard didn't even come from inside Norjak.

If I had something wrong about your "theory" then you'd point it out...  you can't because you don't have a clue what the facts really are. You've constructed a bogus self serving narrative based on elevating assumptions and conjecture to fact while ignoring the actual evidence.

Theories are necessary but when you make up crap and use it to dismiss overwhelming evidence then it isn't a good theory, it is garbage. 

The only time you ever post here is to claim what I posted is nonsense without any challenge, none.. you have nothing, you always have nothing.

If I have something wrong I would like to correct it. You and Ulis just double down on crazy when the facts destroy your theories..

You have and maintain a belief so strong that you refuse to acknowledge any information contrary to it..

 

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Quote

'The western flight path theory has holes in it bigger than Georger's ego...'

Western flight path? I never believed a word of it. Not for a minute, not for a second. The late, great Paul Soderlind of NWA doesn't get much air time at Cooper/Dropzone, but if you knew the guy and what HE knew, and HOW he managed to rise to Flight Ops Director of NWA, you would realize he couldn't be fooled. And when Cooper hijacked 305, it was Soderlind who took charge on events, at least regarding NWA, on the evening of the hijacking. And beyond as well. He also assembled a team to work with him very quickly, and their job was singular and precise: Where was the jet at all times between Seattle and Reno, and where/when did Cooper leave the aircraft? For Soderlind, a relatively simple assignment. 

PaulSoderlindInductionMAHF.jpg.b12dba8776a63327359c923d25ddeaa8.jpg

It was Soderlind and his team, working with the FBI, 'his' own NWA pilots, and Air Traffic Control, who determined the flight path of the airliner. He was the perfect person to do this. If Cooper had been caught on the ground as some other hijackers were, it's a sure bet that Soderlind would have received a subpoena to testify in court. ("Yes, we knew within a certain area where he jumped. Yes, we knew where that flight was every moment it was airborne after it left Seattle. Let me explain...")

And the jury would have sat there fascinated while Paul explains things to them. In the picture above, he's being inducted into the Minnesota Aviation Hall of Fame. Some of the things he invented regarding commercial flight, both cargo hauls and passenger flight, are still in use today, (especially how to avoid turbulence, aka his 'turbulence plot'.) When he retired in 1973 NWA was seriously bummed, and it was a loss and a hit to the airline.

This is a guy who got a commercial license by the age of 23 and was a former Navy pilot in WW2, an instructor and check-out guy. When NWA started out and got those fat Army contracts to places like Alaska, it was Soderlind who made sure things worked out for that, especially when talking about landing on cold, stormy rocks like Shemya Island, or making trips across the Pacific to the Orient. The term 'aviation genius' falls a little short when talking about Paul Soderlind. When NWA bought planes from McDonnell-Douglas, it was Soderlind who took them on both their 'acceptance' and 'delivery' flights, and he could fly every single aircraft that NWA used all the way up to a Boeing 747. (Excerpt from the AV Web article above about him.) 

And if Soderlind tells you that Flight 305 was here or there, and not twenty miles away over at Tina Bar...you should believe him. Read the linked article about him shown above, and find out why Soderlind, on the night of the hijacking, could not be fooled...even by D.B. Cooper. 

The so-called 'western flight path' isn't just dead, but if Paul Soderlind had heard about it, he would have laughed all of its proponents right out of the room. 

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(edited)
1 hour ago, FLYJACK said:

FBI file #56 is up in the vault,,, the site is glitchy for me and down right now 

quick scan,, nothing significant,,, timeframe is Jan - Mar 1972..

They should just skip to the most current files and work their way backwards. It will take years for them to assemble and post them all. If the answers to Cooper were in the very old files...they would have discovered who Cooper was a long time ago. I would say the most interesting files would start right around 2007 and end with the closure in 2016. And they have a loooong way to go to reach that point. 

EDIT: Since we can't present and discuss ALL the podcast episodes on Cooper by Darren Schaefer, if you have any input on his Best Five Episodes, cast your vote. Do NOT include the KC episode I did with him. I won't be at the June party to discuss KC. If you have some favorites you would like the panel and audience to discuss, name them. (Our plan is to play the selected episodes one at a time, and if anyone has a question, or a point of discussion on one, we freeze the 'play button' and talk about it. Then we move on with the episode. I thought this was the best way to cover them.) 

EDIT: This space said we were going to put Darren's entire series on flash drives and hand them out to attendees in June, along with any press who might show up. Just checked files on these podcasts, and they run around 250mb or better per episode on average. So I see a four gig flash drive won't do the job. At probably 52-54 episodes by June at 250mb or better...that means only a 16 gig flash drive would hold them all with some extra margin. We will make adjustments. I will think about how to approach this problem. 

*******************

Yeah, yeah...I saw the latest 'My Justifications' posts by Shutter. I'm not commenting on them. We will stipulate that Shutter is right and truthful on everything, and that I never hit the nail on the head. (And if you believe THAT...I have some oceanfront property in Kansas you might be interested in.)

As far as anyone being on an 'ignore' list, I couldn't care less about that. This thread is visited by people worldwide, DZ has over 130,000 active members, you have to be registered here to put someone on an ignore anyway, and I direct everyone and anyone interested in the Cooper case to this thread. Every site I manage on Cooper links to this thread. Quora, AB of Seattle, WordPress, in emails, you name it. Posts here are read by people a lot more than you would think. And on any forum, people go off-topic occasionally. Big effen deal. B) Sorry, Shutter...you don't run DZ, neither do you own it. Get used to it. For a guy who hardly ever posts here, and makes his responses to posts here on another site...you sure have a lot to say about how THIS SITE should be run. You understand that some people might consider that weird. Either that, or you have information that I was discovered to be a mind-reader. 

The trouble is...you just don't like competition. You and a couple of your friends would like nothing better than to see it closed. You have said that. So have your friends. My apologies...but you do NOT own the internet, and neither are you the sole discussion place for the case. In fact, my Quora Cooper site could even be more heavily visited than your entire Cooper Forum, although Quora is more of a Q and A site than a forum. I'm not sure on that, but I do know my content on views for all my content at Quora passed four million a while back in less than five years. My WordPress on Cooper gets between 5,000-7,000 views monthly, on average. I should really drop the money and go ad free there. 

Two more people from the public email list sent in their Covid stuff today and joined the June party group. This should increase dramatically after the end of April, when the articles come out. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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(edited)

Update: Reviewing all episodes on file of the Cooper Vortex podcasts, they come to a total of 9.01 GB so far. And by June, that bulk set of MP3 files should be running in the 11-12 GB range. So in order to hand out all episodes to attendees in June, we would definitely need 16 GB flash drives in bulk. 

Hmm. For ones that actually WORK, cost would be $3.50 per drive at Amazon with free shipping. That is the cheapest unless you want to go to suppliers who put out crap flash drives. If say...80 people showed up in June, that means an expense of $280, and at 100 people, (probably our max attendance) it's $350. I may have to re-think this a bit. 

You can get a 100-pack spindle of CD's for fifteen bucks, and they hold 650 megs. That would do at least four or five episodes.  So...we could pick out the best ones as a sample of the show, and burn them to the CD's...hand those out for free. Then maybe do the full series on SOME 16GB flash...maybe as additional prizes or a drawing...but make the download to the full series available to anyone through a laptop. We will just tell people in the Official Program to bring a 16 GB flash drive with them if they have one laying around, and stick it in the laptop to download the whole shebang.

I think that's the most cost-efficient way to do this. 

Darren: If you are reading this now, I would appreciate it if you list what YOU believe are your FIVE best, and most interesting episodes. Those will go on the CDs. The full series on 16GB will go to any press who show, and a few select attendees. The remainder get the sample CD, and the opportunity to download the full series from one of my laptops. That's all I can afford in the budget. 

I will do all this for your podcast, with one caveat...I'm not going to put either Bruce Smith or EU on the CD. Or my episode either, to be fair about it. If attendees want any of those, they can do the full download. I will, however, provide the full series to any press. You have about 50 episodes to pick from, so this should be easy. If you don't select any five episodes, I will pick them myself. But I think you should have first say on the ones you believe are best, or episodes that might tempt people to take the entire download and start following the show. 

 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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1 hour ago, Andrade1812 said:

Any hits in 56 on "elsinore" "campbell" "eugene" "shelton" or "egg harbor"?

FBI file #56.. the website is screwed up on all my browsers,, this is the direct link, hit and miss

File doesn't load in viewer but can be downloaded via link at bottom

https://vault.fbi.gov/D-B-Cooper /d.b.-cooper-part-56-of-56/view

 

elsinore p 20/23/191

campbell no hits

eugene no hits

shelton no hits

egg harbor no hits

 

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10 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Update: Reviewing all episodes on file of the Cooper Vortex podcasts, they come to a total of 9.01 GB so far. And by June, that bulk set of MP3 files should be running in the 11-12 GB range. So in order to hand out all episodes to attendees in June, we would definitely need 16 GB flash drives in bulk. 

Hmm. For ones that actually WORK, cost would be $3.50 per drive at Amazon with free shipping. That is the cheapest unless you want to go to suppliers who put out crap flash drives. If say...80 people showed up in June, that means an expense of $280, and at 100 people, (probably our max attendance) it's $350. I may have to re-think this a bit. 

You can get a 100-pack spindle of CD's for fifteen bucks, and they hold 650 megs. That would do at least four or five episodes.  So...we could pick out the best ones as a sample of the show, and burn them to the CD's...hand those out for free. Then maybe do the full series on SOME 16GB flash...maybe as additional prizes or a drawing...but make the download to the full series available to anyone through a laptop. We will just tell people in the Official Program to bring a 16 GB flash drive with them if they have one laying around, and stick it in the laptop to download the whole shebang.

Robert, The Cooper Vortex is already free and all episodes are available to anyone with a smartphone, tablet, or computer. 

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Ulis is clueless, he has no understanding of the 727 airstair system..

On the 727-100 the normal lever was not red and was pushed for emergencies..

The 727-100 had an optional separate emergency system which was a red pull T handle, lock wire..

NORJAK did not have the internal optional emergency system,, 

There was also an external emergency system with a RED T HANDLE PULLED FOR EMERGENCIES..

 

Even the FBI after obtaining the blueprints from NWA said the placard came from the OUTSIDE and could have fallen off any passing 727..  

IT IS A LIE that the FBI confirmed it came from NORJAK.

It is over, the Hicks Placard did not come from inside NORJAK, it came from the outside of ANY PASSING 727

Ulis and Robert99 will ignore the facts and hide in their ignorance but the love of god,, end this Placard nonsense.. it's over.

 

THE PLACARD DID NOT COME FROM THE INSIDE OF NORJAK.

It was a decal on the outside,, the apparent tear holes are where it was placed OVER rivets.

 

727emergairstairoperation.jpg.b2068875b0794a9449909c152c53068f.jpg

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That grab is from a manual to show that the 727 exterior had an emergency red handle pull system..

The 727-200 airstair system mechanically changed and incorporated the "emergency release into the main lever" only the 727-100 had the optional emergency release system..  The 727-200 mechanism changed and that creates confusion with operation and decals... further the early systems were updated..

The ONLY interior emergency red pull handle for any 727-100 was the optional emergency release system which NORJAK did not have. All had the main lever and it was a push to lower.

It's over, don't waste any more time on it.

The Hick's placard did not come from the interior of NORJAK...

 

 

 

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12 hours ago, The Cooper Vortex said:

Robert, The Cooper Vortex is already free and all episodes are available to anyone with a smartphone, tablet, or computer. 

So is the internet...but my guess is that most people attending the party don't even know about the podcast. Have any press done a story on your show with pictures? Your podcast does pretty well on the numbers, but to hit the big leagues those downloads should have five or six numbers behind them per episode. The Kenny Christiansen video at YouTube has nearly 84,000 views now, and downloads of the KC investigatory file from AB of Seattle has done ten times more than your average episode. (However, 4-5 thousand downloads on average for the show is not bad.) I stopped counting downloads of the KC file at around 50,000. Right now, I have two local NW newspapers who are waiting for me to cooperate with them on stories regarding the June festival. They get our press releases on the event in April, and we will be providing them information about the podcast, and why it's important to Cooper fans. I wouldn't be surprised if your downloads take a jump say...in May. And they certainly will AFTER the festival, if we have anything to say about that. 

Seems like Cooperland doesn't believe a whole lot in public promotion of the case. After the 50th anniversary comes and goes, unless there is substantial promotion and support from all sides on ANYTHING related to the case, the Cooper case could lose interest with the public. In order to prevent that, some kicks in the behind occasionally are a good idea. You should be happy that we plan to make your show a big part of the festival. It's also a fair amount of work to burn a hundred CD's. If you don't want to pick episodes as I requested, we will review them and pick our own. This lack of mutual cooperation on Cooper events doesn't hurt AB of Seattle a whole lot, but it does encourage the public to move on to something else, leaving Cooper investigators and the more hard-core fans in the dust. If a couple of years from now you find that no one really cares about Cooper anymore...you will have only yourselves to blame. And this is a distinct possibility. Remember...this is pretty much it on further Cooper events by AB of Seattle. This is the Big One, the Swan Song, and then we pretty much back away from further participation with the public. It's time to move on for us. 

Cooperland should take advantage of our generosity while the going is good. Once I pulled the fluff content from the two AB webpages about the June event, and just told people anyone could show who could prove they got the vaccine...apps to attend started picking up again. I have no idea where we will be with the press and general attendance right now. Won't know that until about mid-May. Don't miss your chance to be represented. (That's directed at EVERYONE in Cooperland, not just you Darren) Your participation, in a way, is already a fact. You're welcome. ¬¬ If you can't get fifty voices to show and have their say, well by God you can sure get their testimonies on MP3. 

If we somehow got more than 120-140 people to show...it would be the biggest single Cooper gathering in Northwest history, and that includes all the conventions, and all the Ariel parties. And I think that goal is more than possible. If this happens, no one will ever top it. No one. The only way you could do better is if you do what we are doing now. Which is to put up a few thousand bucks and spend the next eight months planning it. Trust me when I say it's a lot of work and it ain't easy. 

If AB of Seattle actually manages to pull off the single biggest gathering on the case in fifty years....and most of Cooperland chooses NOT to be a part of that over emotional issues and bickering....all that will accomplish is for AB of Seattle to become the major voice on Cooper and everyone else left scratching their heads and wondering how they missed out, or how they could have been so foolish. And time is growing shorter than you think. No worries. We have YOU covered anyway. As far as how we are getting people interested, our two main draws are the idea of fun, and the idea of REAL prizes on the Lookalike Contest. As Connie from the Auburn Good Old Days Festival once told me, "Prizes and food bring the people. Every time." And she should know. She ran that festival successfully for 27 straight years and I worked across the table with her on five of them. It won't be long before the Planning Committee decides on the amount of the Lookalike prizes, and then that information will be posted everywhere we have announcements now, and a new video, a FINAL video on the event, will be posted at YouTube. (There will also be a video posted later of the festival itself.) The informational PDF, the Official Program that gets sent out two weeks prior to everyone on the email lists, and made public two days prior to the festival itself, will be a work of art. *Print it up, staple it together, and we will see you when you arrive.*

*********************

PLACARD: I'm not sure how important it is anyway. Even if it DID come from Flight 305, it just verifies that the jet was on the correct flight path. If it ISN'T from 305, we know the jet was on the correct path anyway...even without the evidence of the placard. So it's pretty much a moot point. 

A couple of years back, I had this idea to gather a bunch of people with metal detectors, asked (and was granted) permission to get a copy of the key to the gate leading to the Weyerhauser land where the placard was found...and set up camp with all these people to do a search of the placard area. My hope was that we would find either remains of the briefcase, or perhaps the dummy chute. 

The theory was....if the placard came off not long after the stairs were opened, *maybe* Cooper tossed out the briefcase/phony bomb and the dummy chute at about the same moment. Long shot, agreed. I actually got about sixty people who wanted to participate in this proposed three-day search, mostly by going to websites for NW metal detection fans. But then Shutter pointed out that maybe the placard could have come off ANY 727, since the location of the placard was right down US 1 as they say. (V-23 flight corridor) It was one time where Shutter and I agreed on something, believe it or not. B)

I canceled the search, which probably would have been a waste of time anyway. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins
Some figures corrected.

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