covid-19

[JoeWeber 2,299]

1 hour ago, BIGUN said:

Oh C'mon, Joe. In direct conflict with the information he was given. The point being is that both sides have made a lot of mistakes in this from the very beginning. Let's not put Cuomo up as patron saint of the pandemic. This whole thing should not have been nor still be politicized - by either side. 

I agree with Bill about New Zealand. But, it is an island about the size of Arizona - easy to shut down and keep everyone out. The US should have been treated like an island for three months. The executive order should have read:

Self - isolation for three months - don't leave the house

Economic Freeze - to include all loans

Price Freeze

Rent Freeze

Mortgage Freeze

Travel Freeze

Do not pay your utility bills - we will cover that.

We are going to send you $2,000/month for food for the next three months. 

We are going to supply the money for food banks in each city to feed the homeless. 

Go home, learn to play games with your family, love, cook and let's get past this. 

I truly do not know what Sophies choices he faced but I definitely get your point that some kind of serious Executive Order should have been issued guided by intelligent, mature leadership from the President. The reality is that owing to the number of unintelligent, immature other Governors in the America the whole thing was doomed to fail from the start. Now we are paying the price. That price, by the  way, is an average of 10 bucks for a six pack of decent beer. So you might get three months of brew for your two grand but someone else will need to bring the fajitas.

[yoink 321]

6 hours ago, BIGUN said:

Oh C'mon, Joe. In direct conflict with the information he was given. The point being is that both sides have made a lot of mistakes in this from the very beginning. Let's not put Cuomo up as patron saint of the pandemic. This whole thing should not have been nor still be politicized - by either side. 

I agree with Bill about New Zealand. But, it is an island about the size of Arizona - easy to shut down and keep everyone out. The US should have been treated like an island for three months. The executive order should have read:

Self - isolation for three months - don't leave the house

Economic Freeze - to include all loans

Price Freeze

Rent Freeze

Mortgage Freeze

Travel Freeze

Do not pay your utility bills - we will cover that.

We are going to send you $2,000/month for food for the next three months. 

We are going to supply the money for food banks in each city to feed the homeless. 

Go home, learn to play games with your family, love, cook and let's get past this. 

The cowardice of letting states decide for themselves how to deal with the infection without shutting down interstate travel guaranteed that it was going to be bad. The politicization of the issue and public healthcare advice made it a thousand times worse.

 

 

Edited July 18, 2020 by yoink

[BIGUN 1,053]

5 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

That price, by the  way, is an average of 10 bucks for a six pack of decent beer

Brain Fart. Damn that was bothering me. I was thinking 2K/Month/each month for the next three months. I'm sending the degree in communications back on Monday. 

[JoeWeber 2,299]

46 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

Brain Fart. Damn that was bothering me. I was thinking 2K/Month/each month for the next three months. I'm sending the degree in communications back on Monday. 

Might staple your minor in finance to it. :) No worries, I'll stand for the beer and the fajitas. I've made a nice profit the in the market last few months betting against Brent. And that's no shit.

Edited July 19, 2020 by JoeWeber

[Phil1111 911]

On 7/17/2020 at 4:35 PM, jakee said:

..... I don't think you'll ever see a reversal like that from Trump in any crisis. He's simply not capable.

What sort of reversal were you talking about?

"The Trump administration has balked at providing billions of dollars to fund coronavirus testing and shore up federal health agencies as the virus surges across the country,...

But in talks over the weekend, administration officials instead pushed to zero out the funding for testing and for the nation’s top health agencies,"

The trump Death Clock is going to be spinning like the "Wheel of Unfortunate". Those wealthy enough to self isolate and have insurance and those who can't. More testing equals defeat for incumbents.If testing is zero the crisis is over.

[Westerly 61]

On 7/17/2020 at 9:36 AM, DJL said:

I don't get that either.  This is literally the most important thing happening RIGHT NOW and the director of the CDC says we could seriously knock it down in just a few months with a strong approach using masks and sanitary practices.  All Trump has to do to win the election (in just a few months) is to take strong action against the most important thing happening RIGHT NOW.

Not really because the vast majority of trump supporters fit into the category of non-believers that think Covid is all a bunch of bullshit. To them the President is doing a fantastic job by not buying into the fake news bullshit and instead of focusing on getting things reopened because of course there are zero risks with doing that since the virus is all fake anyway.

[BIGUN 1,053]

7 hours ago, Westerly said:

Not really because the vast majority of trump supporters fit into the category of non-believers that think Covid is all a bunch of bullshit. To them the President is doing a fantastic job by not buying into the fake news bullshit and instead of focusing on getting things reopened because of course there are zero risks with doing that since the virus is all fake anyway.

What you say is mostly true. This began to bother me that people were saying, "it's all bullshit." I began asking, "What makes you say that?" My motives were to shed light on the severity of the situation and also have them take a vested interest in protecting themselves and others (see the previous post about Billy Joe Bob). After you talk to a couple of them and peel back a couple of layers; it's not so much that they think it's all bullshit - it's about the numbers bullshit. They don''t know what's real. Over-inflated, under-estimated.etc. So, they're left with what they're being told - which is wrong.   

 

[gowlerk 1,912]

2 hours ago, BIGUN said:

After you talk to a couple of them and peel back a couple of layers; it's not so much that they think it's all bullshit - it's about the numbers bullshit.

Yes, what it comes down to is that Covid is actually a real thing. But not in their lives at this time. So being inconvenienced is bullshit.

[JoeWeber 2,299]

20 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Yes, what it comes down to is that Covid is actually a real thing. But not in their lives at this time. So being inconvenienced is bullshit.

Keep your distance
Then no harm will come

No ill wind
Will blow
Will blow

 

Sudden words
Must never be spoken

All ill wind
Will blow
Will blow

 

Keep your cool
Do not give into emotion

An ill wind
Will blow
Will blow

              -Radiohead

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

14 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

Those wealthy enough to self isolate and have insurance and those who can't. 

Hi Phil,

IMO the 'wealthy' will not be voting for Trump.  And, 'those who can't' are his base.

His efforts are working against him.  He is simply too stupid to understand this.

Jerry Baumchen

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

2 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Phil,

IMO the 'wealthy' will not be voting for Trump.  And, 'those who can't' are his base.

His efforts are working against him.  He is simply too stupid to understand this.

Jerry Baumchen

Well, a few more campaign rallies like Tulsa, and his support will drop a bit.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/08/us/politics/coronavirus-tulsa-trump-rally.html

[BIGUN 1,053]

4 hours ago, gowlerk said:

But not in their lives at this time. So being inconvenienced is bullshit.

I think you missed the point. It's not about being inconvenienced (although there are those); it's about being frustrated as to what's the truth. 

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

33 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

I think you missed the point. It's not about being inconvenienced (although there are those); it's about being frustrated as to what's the truth. 

The problem it that they are being told that the truth is "fake news". 

Over and over.

And then being fed propaganda. 
They seem to have lost the ability to discern what the truth is.


And those people can vote.

[ryoder 1,384]

A Stars & Stripes reprint of a WaPo article:

https://www.stripes.com/news/us/superspreading-events-triggered-by-people-who-may-be-asymptomatic-propel-virus-pandemic-1.638034

Interesting that they are beginning to believe that a small minority of infected people ("super-emitters") are responsible for the vast majority of the transmissions.

In a detailed analysis of outbreaks in Hong Kong, for example, researchers found three distinct groups of incidents. The superspreading individuals, representing 20% of the total, were responsible for 80% of transmissions. A second group, involving about 10% of cases, transmitted the virus to one or two others. The final group, 70%, did not infect anyone else at all.

[kallend 1,623]

29 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

I think you missed the point. It's not about being inconvenienced (although there are those); it's about being frustrated as to what's the truth. 

And there are those who choose to believe a fake science Facebook page telling them that masks deprive them of oxygen and lead to a dangerous CO2 build up in their lungs, while being convinced that tens of thousands of medical professionals (including their own GP), store CEOs, governors, etc. are engaged in a giant conspiracy to force them to wear masks to prolong the (fake) pandemic until Nov. 4. simply  in order to embarrass Trump.

I expect you know some of them.

[ryoder 1,384]

7 minutes ago, kallend said:

And there are those who choose to believe a fake science Facebook page telling them that masks deprive them of oxygen and lead to a dangerous CO2 build up in their lungs, while being convinced that tens of thousands of medical professionals (including their own GP), store CEOs, governors, etc. are engaged in a giant conspiracy to force them to wear masks to prolong the (fake) pandemic until Nov. 4. simply  in order to embarrass Trump.

This morning on another forum, some moron arguing against masks claimed that in workplaces that employ medical professionals, the building ventilation systems add additional O2 to compensate for mask usage. He was promptly refuted by everyone with a clue.

Prior to college, I spent 7 years working in the building maintenance dept of a hospital, and we certainly did not add O2 via the HVAC systems.

[BIGUN 1,053]

2 hours ago, kallend said:

And there are those who choose to believe a fake science Facebook page telling them that masks deprive them of oxygen and lead to a dangerous CO2 build up in their lungs, while being convinced that tens of thousands of medical professionals (including their own GP), store CEOs, governors, etc.

I don't do FB for those and several other reasons. 

 

Quote

are engaged in a giant conspiracy to force them to wear masks to prolong the (fake) pandemic until Nov. 4. simply  in order to embarrass Trump.

 

That doesn't make any sense. 

Quote

I expect you know some of them.

Not really. I know "of" some that might believe that - but, I hang around with professionals; most of whom are in the medical field. 

[turtlespeed 212]

10 hours ago, gowlerk said:

Yes, what it comes down to is that Covid is actually a real thing. But not in their lives at this time. So being inconvenienced is bullshit.

I'd give this an 70% true.

there is 10% out there that don't think its real, and its a complete conspiracy.

There is another 15% out there that just don't care.

There is another 5% that truly will just want to ignore it and it will go away.

[jakee 1,254]

16 hours ago, BIGUN said:

After you talk to a couple of them and peel back a couple of layers; it's not so much that they think it's all bullshit - it's about the numbers bullshit. They don''t know what's real. Over-inflated, under-estimated.etc. So, they're left with what they're being told - which is wrong.   

What is the 'numbers bullshit', and which bits of it aren't real?

[kallend 1,623]

Now the Bahamas doesn't want Americans:

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/coronavirus/fl-ne-bahamas-close-borders-to-travelers-from-united-states-20200720-mdw4dm24e5gwhj4ck3hltnmtpu-story.html

It didn't have to be like this.  A pathetic, massive leadership failure brought us to this.

[Phil1111 911]

2 hours ago, kallend said:

Now the Bahamas doesn't want Americans:

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/coronavirus/fl-ne-bahamas-close-borders-to-travelers-from-united-states-20200720-mdw4dm24e5gwhj4ck3hltnmtpu-story.html

It didn't have to be like this.  A pathetic, massive leadership failure brought us to this.

Its a good thing trump hasn't been successful with his southern border wall. Majority of Canadians polled want U.S. border closed until end of 2020: Ipsos.

"The countries agreed to extend the ban on non-essential travel between the two until late August."

"So far, Mexican officials have not actively pushed to fully reopen the border, multiple sources familiar with the discussions say. The perception in Mexico has been that it’s the U.S. that could send more cases to Mexico given the millions of confirmed cases in the United States."

[Phil1111 911]

Pooled testing of covid in the US has been the latest hope for addressing the spread.

Its too late. It has spread so much, there are so many positive cases and the delays in results for identifying active cases in a "pooled result". Make that a non starter in most areas.

Just trump being trump, MAGA.

[turtlespeed 212]

3 hours ago, kallend said:

Now the Bahamas doesn't want Americans:

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/coronavirus/fl-ne-bahamas-close-borders-to-travelers-from-united-states-20200720-mdw4dm24e5gwhj4ck3hltnmtpu-story.html

It didn't have to be like this.  A pathetic, massive leadership failure brought us to this.

It did have to be like this.

You chose to live here.

Deal with it.

[billvon 2,400]

18 hours ago, ryoder said:

This morning on another forum, some moron arguing against masks claimed that in workplaces that employ medical professionals, the building ventilation systems add additional O2 to compensate for mask usage.

Now that's pretty funny!  Trying to imagine the response of NFPA (the national fire protection association, writes things like US fire and electrical codes) to someone saying "so we're going to flood this building with oxygen."

[billvon 2,400]

19 hours ago, BIGUN said:

I think you missed the point. It's not about being inconvenienced (although there are those); it's about being frustrated as to what's the truth. 

Agreed - but people are being pretty selective in what sort of numbers they get frustrated by.

No doctor can tell you how much earlier you will die if you smoke.  Cancer and emphysema don't work like that. There are even misdiagnoses where people are diagnosed with cancer, but later discover it's benign.  But people accept all that and (often) decide not to smoke or to quit.  No one is out there smoking and blowing it in people's faces because freedom.

No one can tell you what sort of return your 401k will get.   People even make mistakes when calculating investment returns every year.   But most people invest anyway and take the risk because it usually pays off.  No one is decrying the 401k laws because freedom.

There's no sure way to protect yourself 100% from STD's if you are having sex; no guarantees that if you do X Y and Z you'll be protected.  But people do it anyway.  No one is insisting that since there's no 100% reliable data, barriers do nothing.

But in this case people see a degree of medical uncertainty (in how effective masks are, in how effective distancing is, in acquired immunity, in vaccine effectiveness) and decide therefore they're not wearing masks, that it's all a hoax, that it's all the media, that COVID parties give you immunity.

There's more going on than just "frustration as to what's real."