freakydiver

Aren't there a few pilots that live in Moab - I met a couple that fly regularly as sight seeing jobs over the years - talk to tracy down at canyonlands gas stop... She knows alot of the regulars in the area. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

Slaton, LeBlanc, Rickster, the son of the owner of skyknights spc - he was doing amazing things at the ripe age of 18 11 years ago - actually many old timers from back in the day that pushed the envelope and developed a canopy progression for learning purposes. I think it is really hard to say this person or that person, may people had input into the growth of the discipline... -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

rip jan -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

maybe you should fill your numbers in -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

"So I'm not to sure what to think about this." Classic!! Nice goin on the placement steve man. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

A local gym with gymnastics instruction is one place to start. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

"they have iPod sales and iTunes to carry them through." LOL -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

what he said - cross training is a savior for many atheletes that would otherwise get burned out on something, has been for me. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

Anyone have any latest news on this tunnel? I can't wait to take my daughter, she turns one in September - wonder if that is too young lolol... -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

I am not Ok with that. Also - to call this discussion a bunch of whining is complete shit - directed at "you know who you are". God forbid we actually care about our fellow jumper - seems to me that was one of the major reasons I got into the sport in the first place - the camaraderie. Ahh to be so callous and irreverent. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

I do have plenty of experience as an instructor in many other disciplines. Sure the student will make mistakes, but given the proper education they do it a lot less than one that is left to chance. I've seen this numerous times in very dangerous environments. I don't care what sport you are talking about, backcountry snow travel in high slide danger is no laughing matter. My students realize this and more times than not err on the side of caution. Again - we don't show current AFF students videos of hook-ins do we? We don't show them interviews of people that had to deal with the aftermath, do we?? We don't show them the correct way to progress in the high performance realm now do we??? -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

"The bold is the key....Why did you do it? Would you have listend before? I talk to a bunch of folks that hammer....Some still refuse to admit that they were over their heads. Some blame traffic, turbulence...ect. The ones that do admit it, I ask them "What could I or anyone have told you before that would have made you listen?" The number one answer is "Nothing, I would not have listened." -- See now I disagree. Ten years ago when the swoop was still in its infancy, there really wasn't much advice going around - now, maybe this isn't true and I just didn't get lucky with someone to give me the appropriate advice. But honestly, if someone that I respected on the DZ came up to me and said, hey I see that you are learning to land fast, you may want to progress through high performance landings in a slow and controlled method - I believe I would have listened. At 120 jumps when I made my err in judgement, no one had ever said to me, swooping is difficult, it can kill you, you can break legs, etc. I had never seen a really bad landing. I had never met anyone that femured or worse. I took a look at people swooping in their Stilettos and thought to myself how the hell hard can it be. I never once thought about setup patterns or altitude, or outs, or anything along those lines. It was only after I made my mistake that someone on my DZ back then came up to me and suggested that double fronts might be the way to go for awhile. Then start adding in slow turns. Honestly, there is no excuse for someone today in the sport of skydiving to NOT have that information. They should realize that people get in over their heads by loading up their canopies. They should have seen videos of mistakes and the outcomes. I didn't have that luxury as the sport of swooping was very young at the time. There is simply no way anyone can say that it wouldn't have an affect on the average student. Bill, I realize that you must tell young timers time and time again the things you quoted and some of them don't listen. I think you are missing the point though. Some of them DO listen which is what makes any of it worth it. Hook you too - you know that at least one person out there took your advice to heart. Sure one didn't, but to simply stop giving out the advice is irresponsible in my book. To stop working towards making those lessons available to students of the sport is also very irresponsible. Sure there will always be the average joe that just doesn't get it, he'll be fine on that canopy etc etc etc. There is only so much we as a society can do, but to do nothing is not the answer. I have a prime example. There was a young skydiver that came to Colorado and really started progressing fast in the canopy flight realm. The BIG deifference here was that this particular individual became a dedicated student to canopy flight becuase people basically told him, hey man, if you are going to go big, learn how to do it correctly. I've watched this individual learn learn learn, and learn some more. People can and will become receptive to the idea that canopy flight can and will kill if it is ground into them enough imho. In a matter of three years this particular jumper progressed into the high end canopy world and did it in a very safe manner because he had the right advice around him and people made him realize that he needed to listen to it. For the one guy that doesn't listen, I'd be willing to bet there's ten out there that will... -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

"Many students are immune to such advice." That is crap in my book. Don't make it advice, make it VERY real to them. You show the failed hook in my terms, and it becomes very very real to them. Harp on the statistics, show pics of compound fractures, show testimonials about how people had to declare bankruptcy after an injury like this because of all of the medical bills incurred. Show the 100 jump wonder, ask him how he thought he could handle things and he couldn't. To tie into your second comment, my idea merged with your idea of canopy coach ratings, standards of performance, etc etc is a great one. It brings canopy flight into the current age, puts it in the same boat as aircraft flight. I don't know much about private aircraft, but I'm assuming there are tried and true progressions for moving into more and more high performance aircraft, why not parachutes? The only way I see it is that this problem will continue to get worse until major changes are made. The visibility of swooping at the DZ combined with just flat out human nature is going to push alot of eager pilots into canopies that they shouldn't be under. Doing nothing is immune to the problem at hand, and for me personally, I'm sick and tired of the yearly low timer swoop incident. I am embarassed that I was one and because of being able to get up and walk away from it - I feel as though I can help that next prospect to understand that there is nothing wrong with progressing slowly through the canopy progression... -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

My advice - either take a class or get a book on basic photography. This forum does have many threads on basic skydiving photography in terms of camera settings - just do some searching, you'll find tons... Also - digital will allow you to take many more shots in a given amount of time and to learn from those shots. I'm still in the film world and did most of my learning with film, but man, I'd kill for a nice digital. You can do many helpful things like setting up programs to make adjustments over a series of shots - this IMHO makes learning much easier and quicker. Good luck! -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

Why do you say that? I don't think the community will ever safely police itself against these yearly low timer pound ins - ever. Sooner or later, enough people will become very sick of seeing this time and time again. I am. I'm sick of low timers making the same mistake I made 10 years ago. Take base for instance, most of the mistakes made 10 years ago were taken to heart and learned from. The seriousness in terms of attitude that the average base jumper takes should imho be transferred to our sport. Why the hell do we not teach students about high wingloadings, would that be sooooooooo difficult? Explain to them that swooping looks cool and swoopers attract the chicks (tounge in cheek), etc, etc. Then show them how people have had to deal with femurs and spines go awry by getting in way over their head - not just on one jump, but in the decisions they made that got them there. Perhaps rules aren't the way to go, but as far as I can tell, and perhaps I'm wrong having not paid any attention to AFF instruction these days, but it seems as though no time is spent on educating on this aspect of our sport even though it is THE MOST visible of all. Show these damn students video of dudes smacking into the ground and bouncing. Take interviews of the next four years of their lives where they have to learn to deal with huge amounts of pain. Explain the medical costs incurred. SHOW THE STUDENTS, TELL THE STUDENTS. I just don't get it I guess. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

2nd and 3rd pics make me want to ditch my family and base full time -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

That was one of the better articles I've ever seen in the public media forums re base. Well done pk and sa. It could be a double edged sword for the colorado base scene though. More mentors needed?? -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Did I mention ?????????????????????????? I am not proud to have witnessed two and many more injuries. It is never something one wants to see. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

Bootsy is the man. (-: I'd agree with you, but still, the bottom line is the bottom line and you either make it or break it. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

Slap all the variables into a spreadsheet and use the numbers to answer your questions. Its a business after all - the numbers won't lie. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

fab is my hero whilst im stuck at work -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

Q:whats the guiding principle in american politics? most worldly politics actually -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

I unfotunately have to agree. As much as I hate seeing fellow man get himself into trouble, its not like this guy was out in the backcountry on a low avalanche danger day and got bit by an unlucky slide. I do indeed hope he heals well, but fuck, get a clue. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

Hey the first step in improvement is the ability to admit you made a mistake - for that you deserve no flames. Granted continuity checks should occur during every pack job, but I'd be willing to be you know this now... Glad you are ok. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

Its one of the reasons I never got into base - I knew I'd be extremely drawn to aerials and man, I just flat out suck on the tramp. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --