DB Cooper

[low_pull1 2]

Safe,

Suggestions

1) to test drift of bag of money w/o canopy from 10K
a. drop an old rig from 12k and expired AAD & GPS Tracking devise.
b. Record wind speeds and directions prior to launching rig.
c. evaluate results


2) to test drift of jumper under canopy.
a. Enlist one of the fellow jumpers here willing to jump a round.
b. obtain 2x ft round gearr.
c. Jump with gps devise
d. record wind speeds and directions aloft
e. evaluate results

im sure we can find a willing jumper, gear, gps devise, expired aad. Any takers?

This seems to be a worthwhile task, the maps can be overlayed with possible landing zones.

whats everyone think?

[Ckret 0]

watch this video, it will give you some insight into bank robbery and what it is I really do.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7910921090914131395&q=bank+robbery+investigation&total=99&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

Sorry, don't know how to do the clicky

[BillyVance 34]

Quote

watch this video, it will give you some insight into bank robbery and what it is I really do.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7910921090914131395&q=bank+robbery+investigation&total=99&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

Sorry, don't know how to do the clicky

Here you go

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[Greene 0]

Ohooooo! Come on now, lighten up a little bit. Don't be so negative with every post you make to others. Let the mystery continue without you, as a moderator, making snide remarks to most reply"s and posts to this thread.

Just like politics, we are the silent majority! and we say let this thread continue without your snide comments.


Most everyone is worried that you will lock this thread like you did the other one because you do not like the length of the thread and that you believe personally it is a bunch of bull/

You don't care and that is ok! Just let the ones that are following this thread enjoy it!
It is fun, and for us old timers, yes it is a "part of JUMPIMG" in the good old days.

Quade, just don't be so negative and so negative to to us old farts

You are just to young to remember the good old days.

Just let us old farts remeber the headlines and the FBI showing up at our DZ, Skydive Greene County and looking for DP COOPER!. Yep, we had a DB COOPER flying for us at the time!!!!!!! He was 24 years old at the time. The FBI came to GCSPC (aka SGC) and interviewed him, ys the DZ etc etc etc.

Come on Quade
just lighten up a bit. You were not there in 1971. It was a nightmare for some DZO's across the country

We all would like to know who he was and how he did it and why.

Just enjoy the ride and no more snide comments from a moderator ")

Sjues blue

[snowmman 3]

You obviously pick and choose what you want to consider data.

In the transcripts on page 1, assuming the pilot is relaying Cooper's exact words (as we assume when we discuss 15 degree flaps)

The word "knapsack" is used as an apparent demand.

The word is used by Cooper in 1971 in the Northwest, and it is apparently not a clue?

In the land of the blind, a one-eyed man is king.

[snowmman 3]

You're quick to dismiss him as a non-expert jumper, jumping with me in my shorts/tshirt and sandals, but have no problem with him requesting a BAK PAK (backpack) parachute according to the transcripts.

like everyone knows you call them that as opposed to back parachute. He said chest parachute instead of reserve, but he was obviously clueless.

So why would he say backpack and chest (i'm not sure he said chest but Neo says he did) as opposed to back and chest.

Combine this with my prior post.

It's also funny people want to cling to the age thing.

[councilman24 36]

I haven't read these threads extensively and may have missed something. I apologize if so, but....


Attached are two photos showing 1965 data panels. The idea of the fiscal year is in the SERIAL NUMBER. In the example it is "DA64-" is fiscal year included in the serial number. The DOM is stamped separately, Apr. 1965. So, I believe the full 1946 date stamped on the found canopy is the true date of manufacturer. This canopy cannot be from a 1945 crash. In addition I'm unaware of the date of repack EVER being stamped on the canopy itself.

You have mis-interpreted Poynter's manual


"AFF regulation 65-35 dated 10 August 1943 required all Army Air Force canopies to be stamped with the Fiscal year and a serial number. e.g: the first one of the 1942 fiscal year was "AAF 42-1". This is why the first two numbers do not always agree with the date stamped on the canopy. (calendar year)"

What this says is the prefix on the serial number will be the fiscal year, 1964 in my photo example. 1965 is the date of manufacture.

In addition, photo 1639 is the front of the parachute and analogous to the photo of the found parachute published. Photo 1640 is the BACK of the parachute and includes ALL of the information normally on a data panel. The front just repeats the serial number and date of manufacture. All military parachutes I've seen have these two separate stampings of the data. I haven't seen a 1940's parachute but I have seen them from the 50's through the 90's.

So, I do not believe the found canopy can be from a 1945 crash. I also don't believe that anybody would necessarily know, including the owner, what was in a particular training reserve. It is entirely plausable that a 1946 canopy was in a training reserve and nobody knew what was in it and what the serial number was. If you asked the owner of my DZ back when we were using chest mount reserves I very much doubt he could have told what was in any individual reserve container.

Also, containers and harnesses had their own serial numbers. I have a NB-7 and could post photos of the container and harness serial numbers if someone would like. They are NOT the same as the serial number of the canopy. They could come from 3 different manufacturers, especially many years after the manufacture. Parts were easily and often mixed and matched.

I DO NOT have direct experience with 1946 canopies. But I have handled 1950's and later canopies and NB-6s.

In addition, I'm not sure I've seen the basis for thinking that this is a 28 and not a 26. It's easy to tell the difference but I haven't seen anybody say they have made that determination.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[stratostar 5]

Cossley (sp) the rigger who gave the rig to the feds, said it was a 28 ft, stuffed into the nb-6, he also said it would have made for a hard pull.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[Guru312 0]

Quote

Quade, just don't be so negative and so negative to to us old farts
...
You are just to young to remember the good old days.
...
Come on Quade just lighten up a bit.
...
Just enjoy the ride and no more snide comments from a moderator ")

Thank you for expressing what I've been figuring out how to say for a number of weeks.

In my estimation, Quade has been overly harsh, critical and should not be chatting us up--and reprimanding us at the same time. The concept of "moderation" in a forum such as this offends my Libertarian senses and really pisses off the renegade in me.

Funniest thing of all is how much these kids are willing to accept being "moderated" and controlled.

I never thought I'd have to play the Senior Card to get more freedom.

I certainly identify with your perspective...and our collective history of the DB Cooper event. Being a DZO during the Cooper era was kind of a pain.

I'm sure glad you wrote these words. Thanks!

Guru312

I am not DB Cooper

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

you're thinking like someone from 2008.
need to think like someone from 1971

Quote

First name from brother or young son.
Last name is his middle name.

Surely a middle name is... well, pretty obvious? Alternatively, I understand it's fairly common for aliases to use the same initials as the real person. Someone D. C. ... possibly a 2-syllable last name as well. First name... maybe also a 1-syllable abbreviation of a longer name... Don, Dave etc.

Dear Snowmman:

This is garbage - Duane Lorin Weber used the alias John C. Collins, John Chalk Collins and John Claudia Collins from 1962 until 1968 - he was even incarcerated under that alias at Jefferson and released as Duane L. Weber. You are the one who is not thinking 1960's and 1970's....the alias thing is a waste of our time. He had a drivers license and SS #'s under those names.

If a name was chosen at random at the ticket counter - think - Dan rather than saying Duane and Couuuper rather than saying Collins as he was holding in his and the cigarettes with coupon in large lettering on it. Duane pronounce Cooper as Coouper in the hospital. He cooed the name.

Now put that in your random thoughts. It at least make more sense than what you are saying. An alias is chosen for convenience and availability - no amount of thought went into a name that was spit out at the airline counter and identification was not required to buy a ticket. Who knows maybe it was Cooper's real name.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[snowmman 3]

I'm not sure if you were just yelling at me or having a conversation...but

I'm sure Duane was a perfectly nice guy. But anyone who was in six prisons from 1945 to 1968 is unlikely to have done the hijack without a gun.

It's quite a thing thinking you can control a crowd of random people on a plane and outside a plane with no weapons, just your brain, words, and attitude. You don't get that out of a vending machine. And you don't learn that in prison.

And equating the way the two might think just because of ?? .... okay, whatever.

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. I'm just writing words.

***
Dear Snowmman:

This is garbage
***

[Orange1 0]

Quote

Duane Lorin Weber used the alias John C. Collins, John Chalk Collins and John Claudia Collins from 1962 until 1968 - he was even incarcerated under that alias at Jefferson and released as Duane L. Weber.

Interesting that all his aliases had the same initials though - J.C.C. I bet that comes from somewhere. If the hijacker had been John Collins maybe it would add more weight to the Duane theory.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

Quote

If the hijacker had been John Collins maybe it would add more weight to the Duane theory.

Would John Collins checking into a hotel down the street from PDX the night of Nov 23, 1971 add more weight?

[quade 3]

Quote

In my estimation, Quade has been overly harsh, critical and should not be chatting us up--and reprimanding us at the same time. The concept of "moderation" in a forum such as this offends my Libertarian senses and really pisses off the renegade in me.

Pity then that this isn't a democracy isn't it?

If you actually believe I'm too "harsh" on the people without anything to substantiate their claims, beliefs, theories and other whatnot, then . . . gee . . . I guess you're entitled to your opinion.

Just as I am to mine.

I will only actually moderate the things that are actually against the rules. I do not moderate people's theories or ideas, but that sure as hell isn't going to mean I'm going to let non-sense slip by me unquestioned!

Holy crap dude. Do you think for a minute it's reasonable for anyone to sit by and let people speak non-sense and call it "the truth"?

If somebody was moderating a math forum and some person came in saying that 2+2 equalled 5, wouldn't you sort of expect the moderator to make a comment about it?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

I'm sure Duane was a perfectly nice guy. But anyone who was in six prisons from 1945 to 1968 is unlikely to have done the hijack without a gun.

Duane was NOT a violent man and knew how to
use a gun. He was an excellent shot, but did not use a gun to commit a crime. I did not meet him until 1977 so beyond that I cannot speak for his demeanor.

He indeed used his mind...and had no need for a gun to control anyone as he did not expect to survive. There have been others who have spent
yrs in prison that were geniuses. Then one day they learn what it takes - Cooper learned from his mistakes...intelligent and desparate, but not a genius.

How did he get away with it ? He changed himself - he survived and got a second chance. If he was ever incarcerated for another crime someone would know he was Cooper. Precisely why he paniced when he got a DUI in Ft.Collins, Co in 1980....after the kid found the money. I had never seen him that drunk....I just remembered when this happened (another co-incidence).

If it had not been for your post - I might never have remembered when he got that DUI. If I am shouting you will know it...as anyone in the forum will tell you...I am not always good with the words.

Just stay with the guys and review the thread,
keep up with them and make some of the useful posts you do, but don't hold them back.

I understand about 1/3 of what these guys are talking about so I try to stay out of their technical talk, but it is necessary if this crime will ever be solved. I am appreciative of all the help they have provide - such as the big things in Wa that detect planes - Duane mentioned them and pointed in the direction of where one was - I don't remember it looking like a cowboy hat.

I am trying to let them do what they do best and not hassel them or bother them with trivia and trival information. I pipe in once in awhile to let them know I am here and when I feel my two cents needs to be heard. I also try not to monopolize the posting.

Sorry Guys, this was along one. Bye.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[ryoder 1,384]

Quote

Quote

Quade, just don't be so negative and so negative to to us old farts
...
You are just to young to remember the good old days.
...
Come on Quade just lighten up a bit.
...
Just enjoy the ride and no more snide comments from a moderator ")

Thank you for expressing what I've been figuring out how to say for a number of weeks.

In my estimation, Quade has been overly harsh, critical and should not be chatting us up--and reprimanding us at the same time. The concept of "moderation" in a forum such as this offends my Libertarian senses and really pisses off the renegade in me.

Funniest thing of all is how much these kids are willing to accept being "moderated" and controlled.

I never thought I'd have to play the Senior Card to get more freedom.

I certainly identify with your perspective...and our collective history of the DB Cooper event. Being a DZO during the Cooper era was kind of a pain.

I'm sure glad you wrote these words. Thanks!

My proposal:
Since this thread is accounting for most of the posts in the SH&T forum, and the best possible outcome would be that the collective of jumpers could help Ckret solve the case, I would propose that the Cooper threads should be moved to a new "DB Cooper" forum moderated by Ckret.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

A dissenting opinion every now and then never hurt anyone.

Besides, do you really think sangiro would go for it?

I think we're okay. A few people ought to post less often (I being one of them), but other than that, the thread has new life... great to see all the regulars posting here again and some new DZers like BigSky.

[ryoder 1,384]

Quote

Thanksgiving weekend would be a great time to do it. It allows the person to get out of the woods and back to their job in a nearby state before anyone missed him.

Self-employed. Had a bad run of luck and needed to get those trucks repaired for his plumbing business or lease a new building.

Gone fishin'. He told his employer that he is taking some time off to go on vacation.

Plenty of explanations for the employed hijacker.

You just rented the old 1981 "High Risk" movie, didn't you?

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[dumstuntzz 0]

i concur. i do not believe what cossey says about this chute.i do believe that councilman 24 is totally correct.

[skyjack71 0]

I hope you guys will find this interesting as I am tired of trying to tell the FBI anything: If you do then I have other information from 3rd parties that I can post.

Excerpt of Email from Night Clerk

Subj: Re: (no subject)
Date: 1/17/2008

Dear Jo, I enjoy reading the excerpts from skeptics who were not there to give 'credence' to matters they have no first hand knowledge of. There was a registration card signed by " D B Cooper ". The name on that card was "------------" . I may have been only a 27 year old at that time but I still have a very good memory of that incident because of the 'questioning' that I received by the investigators involved that following evening when I came to work. My mind is as good now as it was then because I have kept it that way. I support you in your quest and have seen nothing as yet to doubt or question your evidence or my belief in that evidence as related to the facts as I know them to be true!



**************
Excerpt from email from Ckret;

Jan 2008 3:18:08 PM Eastern Standard Time

Ckrets - Reply
In Reply To
3) I am not aware of a hotel registration, agents went to all of the hotels around the Portland airport in the following days, I am not aware that the effort produced any notable leads.

My replay back to Ckret:

Did you not get the email I sent to you with the message from the witness in China? I did not give the phone number to you, but in that email he said that you could contact him.

The FBI did not seek him out in 1971 - he called the next day to report that a man had spent the night there who matched that description...and he told me what transpired when the agent came to the hotel.

The agent watch as he pulled the card and told him not to touch it and placed in plastic for finger prints. He does not know what happened after that . The hotel I understand is not there anymore and it had maybe 3 new owners after the skyjack.

When I asked for details on the hotel - like what was near it... I inquired about a piano bar and was told that one was next door - I assume in the hotel.. Duane always sought out the nearest piano bar. There was not a player for Thanksgiving eve, but one of the residents was picking out a tune on the piano and trying to get everyone to sing. (Obvious it was very near if he could hear).

The night clerk told me a couple of other things Note: XXXXXXX deleted to make this post.

The man signed the registration and provided the required information. Duane's handwriting I have samples of over the yrs for comparisons - an individuals handwriting does change. Duane was left handed.

This is another question I have ASKED and ASKED over the yrs. Surely the stewardess noted which hand Cooper held his cigarette in---. Duane was able to use both hands for most task, but I doubt he would have held up under stress. Did he sit on the right or left of the plane? Which hand did he keep on the briefcase of "flares"? I would keep the opposite hand on it to be able to use my good hand for protection and or to eat and smoke with, but that is me.

April 2, 2008
PS: I will duely note that the registration card was signed John Collins because a conversation ensued about the drink Tom Collins. Cooper also asked that he not be woken by the maids and a late check-out was arranged. In so far as I know the FBI did not talk to him when he came back to the states a couple of months ago for health reasons. He is now a teacher in China.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[speedy 0]

Quote

i concur. i do not believe what cossey says about this chute.i do believe that councilman 24 is totally correct.

Ckret
Two people are saying that Cossey has not been entirely truthful about the chute. Why would Cossey lie?

Dave

Fallschirmsport Marl

[novalis 0]

in trying to make a profile of cooper i think it is interesting that the money did not play a big role. everyone, including mcCoy, who imitated him thought that dan went to a lot of trouble and took quite a few risks for the sum he got.
this, and some of his behavior with crew and passengers, makes me think that he was more intent to "show" somebody, or get revenge on somebody (air line, air line industry, law enforcement?) than trying to get an income without an honest day's work.

[novalis 0]

i think everyone has to try to put together a hypothesis that explains as much of the phenomena as possible. naturally it is also a fact that some (all?) the phenomena is subject to more than one interpretation.
each of us begins, based on his experience, insight, education, "personality" etc. taking, for hypothetical purposes, the one or the other phenomenon for the base phenomenon and tries to fit the other "facts"into an explanation. (some people start with what they believe is an insight into the personality of dan, others with their knowledge of flight or parachtuting, etc. ) this is all legit.
you can call what one guy does thinking "in the box" and what another guy does, thinking "out of the box". personally, i don't think this is a real distinction and doesn't add anything.

mark twain says in conn. yankee that the best swordsman in england doesn't have to worry about the second best, but the opponent who never held a sword in his hand and doesn't do what is expected of him. Well, maybe. if my life depended on it i think i would rather be the second best swordsman and hope that my opponent, number one, was having a bad day. (am i thinking "in" or "out" of the box here? )


in this regard. the germans got a bunch of so-called "out of the box people" together during WW II to try to find out where the italian govt. had taken the duce after deposing him. (the german authorities where not as "mean" as you were, the "loonies" were given all the cigars, whiskey, etc. they wanted.) among the star gazers, pendlers, tarot readers, etc. -- one "guy" actually came up whith the gran sasso.
but let's face it, after all the so-called thinking out of the box is done somebody has to say: "ok guys, thanks, you can take the rest of the cigars with you, now I will decide which out of the box solution to follow". and naturally this fellow, -- in your terms the govt. employ who is still in the box? -- has to decide according to criteria he understands. whoops! jack is back in the box.

i think the problem is with the phrase "in" and "out" of the box. it doesn't really tell us much about thinking.
which is not to say that i don't think you're thinking! i do think you're thinking. and now i am going to get down off the soap "box".

[normiss 622]

Some of us do not see it as simple "nonsense".
I think you're not familiar with profiling and how it's used to try and think like the person that committed the crime...try to think outside the box once in awhile dude! It also makes it appear that simply because you disagree with others that the threads have suffered because of it.
Free thinking has opened up avenues not yet explored many times in history.
Please allow people to explore those pathways.
A fresh and different perspective seems to be exactly what this case needs. Thinking the same things over the case history has accomplished what?

[councilman24 36]

If I'm one of the two people, I didn't say he lied intentionally. But he may very well have thought he remember, been confused, supplied container serial numbers, etc, etc. There are a large range of ways things could be wrong unintentionally.

Or he may be sticking with an original story.

And as to cramming a 28 in a NB-6. It wouldn't have been packed and ready to go if he didn't think it was usable. Nobody has described the NB6 as a training rig. So it was ready to save somebodies life. A hard pull is not a no pull.

But, I do not believe the canopy found could be from a 1945 crash. It was made in 1946 unless the other data panel that I haven't seen says something else. And it shouldn't .

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE