DB Cooper

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

I was more trying to make the point that if this thing is going to get solved then we need to look at the facts more.

I concur. The problem as I've seen it is that the minute you can 100% rule something out, people will immediately question the 'facts'. It's much easier to just hold onto a theory that doesn't fit than it is to widdle down the possibilities and actually make forward progress.

I guess that's just how it is. It's fine because it's a fun mystery and people should be able to come up with all sorts of conclusions.

But if you actually want to resolve the mystery, then you have to start taking a hard line with things that have been established. That means not disputing AFB radar, careful analysis of ATC recordings performed by NWA & the FBI, and pilot testimony without just cause.

Sluggo, I answered your question several posts ago. There's no way I was Cooper.

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

Ckret,

I hope you will take this as it is intended.

I feel that you really would like to be a part of solving or advancing the Northwest 305 hijacking case. That’s something that you and I (and a lot of folks on this board) have in common. I have no idea what kind of law enforcement (LE) officer you are, nor do I know what kind of an investigator you are. I don’t even know how the performance of LE’s and Investigators is measured (Do you publish box-scores in the paper?
The best way I know to explain this, is by example:
[example]
A patient presents herself to a hospital emergency room with excruciating abdominal pain. She is 33 years old, 5' - 1" tall, weighs a whopping 94 lbs, has dark hair, eyes, and complexion.
The ER Doc does a history and physical and suspects it might be gall-stones.
He does just what he is trained to do. What physicians always do in this case. He looks at his left hand and counts his fingers by naming them from the five risk factors for gall-stones, Fat, Fair, Female, Forty, and Fertile. She’s not fat, forty, or fair so she only has two of the five risk factors so he orders a bunch of expensive diagnostic test… and.. blah… blah… yada, yada, yada. [/example]


99% of the time, traditional thinking works to everybody’s benefit, we call it experience, but it really is statistics. Let’s face it, every once in a while, that data-point falls outside the bell-shaped curve.

My point is; the Flight 305 Hijacking wasn’t a conventional crime (especially in 1971), using conventional KESAs is not going to lead to it’s solution. In an earlier post you made a statement about Cooper not throwing out all the parachutes, something like this (and I’m paraphrasing); “It just doesn’t make sense that he would have thrown out some and not thrown out all.” Well, I assert (that word begins with ass to Cooper it made perfect sense, the proof is right there, he didn’t throw them all out because it didn’t make sense to him to do so. What environmental factors helped to form his view of the necessity to throw out some things and not others are unknown to us. But, it’s clear that his viewpoint is different than the viewpoint of an FBI Agent who is particularly motivated to find out who he was, and where he went.

Once again, I hope you understand where I’m coming from, and why I’m saying this. Remember, my profession is in “human performance improvement” and I see things differently than most also. But, I’m not D B Cooper.

I just had a beautiful fantasy…. Bring together a roomful of people who are out-of-the-box thinkers. You know, really weird people, like artist, computer programmers, psychiatrist, software engineers, actors, Billy Bob Thornton, etc. Give them all the records on the case and tell them; “No Pepsi and pizza until you solve the case!.” That will lead to a solution, QUICKLY.

Sluggo_Monster (out-of-the-box)

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[NickDG 23]

Ya know, if anything, and if Mr. Cooper is alive out here, his eyes are bleeding by now. You all might just flush him out because he's biting through his lower lip . . .

NickD

[quade 3]

Quote

I just had a beautiful fantasy…. Bring together a roomful of people who are out-of-the-box thinkers. You know, really weird people, like artist, computer programmers, psychiatrist, software engineers, actors, Billy Bob Thornton, etc. Give them all the records on the case and tell them; “No Pepsi and pizza until you solve the case!.” That will lead to a solution, QUICKLY.

If, and only if, you're talking about some sort of Agatha Christie murder mystery wherein all the facts needed to solve it are actually known and have been presented.

I'm pretty sure that if that were the case, this would have been solved long ago.

These FBI folks aren't exactly dim witted.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Guru312 0]

Quote

But, I’m not D B Cooper.

Neither am I but I wish I was so I could admit to being Ol' DB and you guys can get on with your lives.

My advertisement "Parachute Lessons for Hijacking and other fun" brought me huge numbers of people who wanted to be taught how to jump out of an airplane by DB Cooper. I admit that I played the gig for quite some time. I had newspaper reporters baffled as to "was I or wasn't I". It was fun...pretending.

My point: people seem to want to believe DB lived. People allow emotions to cloud and, essentially, set the tone for what they believe. This subject and the comments made about it prove how much people believe with very little or no evidence what ever.

And I'm guilty of fascination with the subject and the people who believe.

If I answer that I was an adult in 1971 when I wrote the DB Hijacking advertisement will you explain for us how our age could have ANY significance to the issue?

Oh, by the way, I just checked again; I'm still not DB Cooper.

Guru312

I am not DB Cooper

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

reply]These FBI folks aren't exactly dim witted.

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

Quote

If I answer that I was an adult in 1971 when I wrote the DB Hijacking advertisement will you explain for us how our age could have ANY significance to the issue?

It has nothing to do with this “issue” (if you mean the hijacking).

I post a lot, but I lurk a lot too. I’ve noticed throughout the course of these discussions (some friendly and some not-so-friendly) that there are two distinct sets of; attitudes, mores, morals, and that word that the kids like to use “memes” that come through in the discussions. So, I have assigned an age to everyone, and I just want to see if I’m right (or close to right).

I mean, we don’t see each other, we don’t hear each other, I just want to pull back the curtain and see who I’m talking to.

Sluggo_Monster

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[Ckret 0]

Sluggo, you crack me up, your supposed to highlight your question not your post. In regard to your "question/post" you have to look at what is most probable given a set of facts. Whats the most logical outcome or series of events that took place.

From that, where does the most logical progression lead you. Once you have a solid foundation to build from you can start pouring on possibilities. Without a solid foundation your investigation will collapse around you.

For example, if you have to change the witness statements to fit your subject, your starting on a weak foundation. Doesn't mean something will come up that may alter things, but without a valid reason for dismissing your witnesses your investigation might quickly fall apart.

You can't pick and choose, if you find reason to dismiss witness descriptions of a subject then their whole description of the events that night are suspect. If thats the case we might as well stop discussing this whole incident because their stories of the night are really all we have.

By the way Sluggo, that stuff about bank robbery, it's no rumor.

[Ckret 0]

Quade, I laughed out loud, I am now committed to use that line the next time I interview a bank robber, (says in a gruff steely FBI voice) "Son!!!! (with a southern drawl for accent) you're lookin at clouds and seein bunnies!!!!" "you and I both know you were in that bank today, now give it up, the truth will set you free."

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

Quote

By the way Sluggo, that stuff about bank robbery, it's no rumor.

Okay....

Now, I'm getting somewhere!

That statement tells me you have:
K - Knowledge
E - Experience
S - Skills
A - Attitude

Now, I have to add another E for ego, or is it a S for Self-Assurance, or maybe an A for Type-A personality.

The Emergency Room Physician example was not an accident.

Boy, I glad your back!
No comment on my bowling technique? oh! That's a question,

No comment on my bowling technique?

It made me laugh, even if you didn't.

Sluggo_Monster (Just a country boy put slap dab in the middle of this big ol' city)

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[SafecrackingPLF 0]

By the way Sluggo, that stuff about bank robbery, it's no rumor.

A Ginzu might be able to cut through a tin can, but it sure can't cut through a Carr.

You can quote me on that one.

[Ckret 0]

My wife would say:

A - Type A personality

S - Self-assured

S - Sadly way too involved into far to many things.

[quade 3]

Quote

By the way Sluggo, that stuff about bank robbery, it's no rumor.

A Ginzu might be able to cut through a tin can, but it sure can't cut through a Carr.

You can quote me on that one.

And then, 20 minutes later, Jessica Fletcher showed up to examine the corpse. Witnesses, previously having heard Safe's words, naturally assumed him to be the prime suspect.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

OT, but Jessica Fletcher used to crack me up how she'd get confessions by "recalling" a statement someone said...

Now I know where my investigative hunger came from... too much TV.

My joke was in reference to a Seattle area bank robber that made MSNBC news last week.

[Ckret 0]

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003168951_nicknames02m.html

[snowmman 3]

I know someone will say it's in the posts, but:

Do we know how Cooper cut the strings in the reserve chute? Did a stewardess watch the process?

Is it unknown or did the stewardesses provide him with a knife or scissors.

If they did not, would it have been easy to find a cutting implement?

Basically I'm wondering if he had a knife in his pocket.

It's also interesting to muse how skilled Cooper was at tying knots. I suppose there weren't many other good choices when they didn't deliver the money in a desired knapsack. I can't think of a better option than the string cutting. Maybe I would have rummaged thru the overhead racks for someone else's possibly larger luggage bag that was more suitable. But maybe there was none on the short flight.

I was also wondering why going after those strings was faster/better than any other tying material (seatbelts etc). He made a snap decision that that was the way to solve a problem. It's interesting to muse why his brain solved the problem that way.

Time was of the essence. Somehow digging into the reserve didn't strike him as a dumb thing to start doing.

I also like how the non-use of a gun, or intimidation on the women, is strong evidence.

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

Thanks for the article, that was great!

"We don't want it to be too funny," said Burroughs. "It's a serious issue."

I've got to say, when I saw the picture of Git-R-Done, I was on the floor laughing for at least five minutes.

If Cooper wasn't so famous already, we'd have to come up with some crafty name....

Ckret, one last confirmation on this... it was a briefcase. Is there any specific notes or description of this case?

Also, Hancock interview?

[edit] I saw that article was from 06 and it mentioned the bag lady. I remember one day going down Madison and the whole block was quarantined off because Bag Lady hit either the Key or US right there, cops everywhere with guns drawn... good to know we've got a bonafide criminal catcher at the helm. Maybe we'll make some headway in this Cooper case afterall.[/edit]

[AirWhore 0]

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003168951_nicknames02m.html


Cool story...

[377 21]

I just had a beautiful fantasy…. Bring together a roomful of people who are out-of-the-box thinkers. You know, really weird people, like artist, computer programmers, psychiatrist, software engineers, actors, Billy Bob Thornton, etc. Give them all the records on the case and tell them; “No Pepsi and pizza until you solve the case!.” That will lead to a solution, QUICKLY.

Sluggo_Monster (out-of-the-box)

[happythoughts 0]

Assumptions that I have read.

"He was single because he would have been missed if he did not return (i.e. died)."
What if he lived ? Back home in 2 days.
(Personally, I think he died.)

"He was unemployed."

Thanksgiving weekend would be a great time to do it. It allows the person to get out of the woods and back to their job in a nearby state before anyone missed him.

Self-employed. Had a bad run of luck and needed to get those trucks repaired for his plumbing business or lease a new building.

Gone fishin'. He told his employer that he is taking some time off to go on vacation.

Plenty of explanations for the employed hijacker.

[low_pull1 2]

.......................
The only safe assumption a person could make would be that he probably used an alias. If he did, he may have used it before or used other aliases before.
.................

The guy that got arrested on drunkeness may have used Dan Cooper as an Alias or Dan cooper may have really been Dan Cooper and not used an Alias.

Im sure the real Dan Cooper has been investigated, but im only guessing.

[low_pull1 2]

........................
What is the scientific basis that this wasn't one of Cooper's chutes?
...............................

ive posted this before what are the SNs of:
1) Harness 1
2) Harness 2
3) Canopies 1, 2, 3 and 4 (assuming the dummy was not made from dirty sox)


did i miss the answer to this??? im sure the answer was not posted, maybe i missed it.

[low_pull1 2]

..................
The big reason I want to analyze float time is because I would like to figure out "how much" help that money had
.......................

The Money alone in bundles in a bag would not drift as much as a belly down skydiver. pretty much stright down. Now, Money under canopy (with Jumper) could go a long way from 10k ft.

Ive mede jumps (wind velocity unknow...but fast) from as far as 7 miles from the DZ and lander at the DZ while opening at 8k-9k under F111 Square. Granted, Cooper was under a round and may have opened at 10k.....

Safe, are you looking for drift time with money under Canopy or Drift with money alone in Bag??

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

Thanks for asking.

When I revisit the drift analysis, I will get a hold of Kallend... I've just been too lazy/busy to do it yet.

At some point in the next 3-4 months, I'm going to actually put some cash in a bag and see how long it can float. While it's not exactly the same as a river or creek (turbulence), it will still give some idea about a money bag's ability to float. The turbulence of the Columbia is not that strong in the areas we're talking about, and at the very least, it will shed some light on the LaCamas route.

So, both... I hope to figure out both. One I can do on my own, the other I need some help.

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

Quote

"Dueling Banjo" resembled an actor in the dueling-banjos scene in the 1972 Burt Reynolds/Jon Voight film "Deliverance," Carr said.

Ckret,

If he looked like this (Duel1.jpg) he may be my 2nd cousin twice removed!

Sluggo_Monster (Just sittin’ here in “Bama, wonderin’ why you drink them lattes)

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