DB Cooper

[Albert18 0]

Apparently quite a french following.

http://pagesperso-orange.fr/francejohn/dc_page1.htm

Which makes you wonder how much exposure this crime received outside the US borders. Could the people who might have recognized Cooper lived somewhere where they didn't get much exposure to the crime?

Add to this the olive skin color and the fact he spoke with no accent. Very interesting.

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

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If revenge is going to be considered as a motive in the DB Cooper case, then it has to make sense that DB Cooper would plan the event so that those upon who he was exacting revenge would actually know the motive for the event.

I agree 100%.

If Cooper wanted "revenge" or to send a message, then he'd make sure the other party knew what the message was.

I asked it before, I'll ask it again... did Cooper leave anything behind that could be construed as a message, sign, or calling card as it were?

Sluggo,
Good find. Our 45+ yr old may have used one of his favorite comic book heros later in life.

[Albert18 0]

The Dan Cooper serial was started in Tintin magazine. That was a European magazine. Later the comic books were released. Makes one wonder how much US circulation these comics received.

[377 20]

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watch this video, it will give you some insight into bank robbery and what it is I really do.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7910921090914131395&q=bank+robbery+investigation&total=99&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

Sorry, don't know how to do the clicky

Ckret,

You gotta love this one since bank robbers are your specialty. Yesterday, an elderly man estimated to be at least in his 70s held up the Wachovia Bank at the Stanford Shopping Center in Palo Alto CA. The robber entered and exited in a motorized WHEELCHAIR!! Witnesses said that the wheelchair appeared truly needed, not a prop, as the robber had extensive bandaging or bracing on his legs. The amazing part is that he made a successful getway through a crowded shopping center and has not been apprehended. Hope your colleagues from the local office are hot on the trail Larry. You know, we can't rule out Cooper. Right age, leg injuries (rough landing), and would be running out of money about now...

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

Safe...PLF,

When you get a chance, use your facial recognition software on the attached character from Dan Cooper Comics. Check it against the DB Cooper sketch.

If you don't get a match, check it against Capt. William Scott!

Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum

[ltdiver 3]

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Ckret,

. . . Hope your colleagues from the local office are hot on the trail Larry. You know, we can't rule out Cooper. Right age, leg injuries (rough landing), and would be running out of money about now...

377

That takes the cake today. Thanks for the laugh...

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

Safe...PLF,

I love you man, but a question isn't a question if you already know the answer.

He left behind the parachutes and the tie. The parachutes were given to him during the crime. The tie was his.

He took the money, left the tie. Unless he was a waiter or a Law Enforcement official, it looks like a trophy exchange to me.

Sluggo_Monster

Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum

[Orange1 0]

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It was the day before Thanksgiving, Nov. 24, 1971. As Northwest Airlines Flight 305, from Portland, Ore., to Seattle, sped along the runway preparing for takeoff, the man in Seat 18C, wearing sunglasses and a dark suit, handed a flight attendant a note....

I don't think anyone answered the question about a seating plan, but surely row 18 would not have been right at the rear of a 727? Even in the old days when there was more space between seats. The 727-100 had a maximum seating capacity of 149 and the seats were configured 6 per row. That gives me 24 or 25 rows, so row 18 would have been about two-thirds down ... which doesn't sound consistent with (what i've read on here, possibly incorrectly reported) that he sat at the very back. I've assumed it was a 100 from something else here, if it was a 727-200 it had even more rows.
Link here, includes incidents involving 727s (yes, our subject is there too) http://www.answers.com/topic/boeing-727

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[377 20]

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Ever been to a party crashed by people you wouldn’t entertain in your garden shed? You know the type. They walk through your house like they owned it, help themselves to what’s in the fridge, change the music to what they like, spill red wine and put out cigarettes on your carpets, treat your books and skydiving trophies like pieces of junk, leave wet rings on your lovingly-restored antique oak table, and miss the toilet bowl when they piss. And then, incredibly, are offended when you get irritated. Among that milieu is the sub-type who can talk for hours in a monotone about the many shades of metallic-flake paint, not noticing your eyes glazing over. When you move to a group of friends, he follows and butts in with the same topic, one so soporific that everyone mumbles politely and wanders off. When you survey the damage the next morning, you wish you hadn’t been quite so polite. Better to have grabbed ‘em by the scuff of the neck and run ‘em out of your house and off your property.

(There are some who may already have a sneaking suspicion where I’m heading with this.)

Dropzone.com is a clever idea, an enticing venue for skydivers to air all sorts of topics. But when non-skydivers arrogantly treat it as their own, not least because those it was designed for are too polite to tell ‘em to hit the road, then a problem is generated, one that becomes increasingly divisive. Especially so when it’s clear that their ‘contributions’ (inevitably larded with poor grammar, worse syntax, and flabby thinking) are sad efforts to draw attention to themselves in the company of people who, unlike themselves, actually understand the mechanics of aviation, parachute equipment, freefall, and meteorology. It’s those who do grasp those subjects, through the expenditure of time, passion, money and effort, that have earned (yes, earned is the right word) the right to contribute.

Going back to the beginning, you might reasonably ask if I socialize with non-skydivers? You bet I do. But they are articulate, engaging and fascinating people who have taken risks and pushed the envelope in their own fields of endeavor, certainly not wannabes who live dull troglodyte lives surrounded by fantasies they haven’t the moral, philosophical or physical courage to ever realize.

Like our much-burdened moderator, I wish the good ones fair winds in their quest.

And with that, I think I’ve said enough on the subject.

Hoop

Hoop,

You'd love the guy who I frequently see driving in my area behind the wheel of a big raised monster truck (you know, the kind with multiple shocks and the cab 3 feet off the ground). His truck has LOTS of skydiving stickers. I know for a fact his only jumping experience has been as a tandem passenger. Can he post here with your blessing?

My car has only a tiny quarter sized Alti-2 sticker on the lower corner of the rear window. Non jumpers don't know what it is but it is enough to strike up parking lot or gas station conversations with jumpers who see it. It even got me out of a speeding ticket once from a cop who jumped.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[NickDG 23]

Unless I missed it . . .

Now that we know the parachute found wasn't Coopers - who's was it?

While I'm not clear on if it was actually buried, or just found in a mound of dirt, where did it come from? Did they ever find any serial numbers or markings?

There were Smoke Jumpers operating in eastern WA as early as 1940 (pre-WWII) and those parachutes were probably silk. But this parachute is well west of there.

Just an unlucky early aviator hitting the silk? But if the canopy was buried, why?

But there's another possibility, maybe . . .

We know the Germans landed saboteurs on Long Island, NY via submarine during WWII. And there was also an artillery attack on a Santa Barbara, CA oil refinery, also from a sub but this time Japanese, in 1942. Could the Japanese have also landed spies or saboteurs from the air during this time? I'm not sure if they had planes that could transit the Pacific at the time, but maybe carrier based aircraft could have done it. Or, they did have a toehold in the Aleutian Islands (off Alaska) and might have launched some operations from there.

Oh, and Hoop, you know Townies are somewhat of an issue at most every DZ - get over it . . .

NickD

[377 20]

There is a GREAT book on Japanese attacks on the US mainland during WW 2 called Silent Siege. Written by a university professor and has lots of photos. There were attacks on the Pacific NW, by sub launched float planes (watertight "hanger" on deck) and by subs which shelled shore targets including a lighthouse. All attacks were ineffective. No records of paradrops of spys. Japan did launch many FUGU balloon bombs that rode the jetstream to the US. They killed a few people who found landed balloons and handled them, but were ineffective weapons. They had hoped to set massive fires with the FUGUs but when the jetstream was favorable for Japan to US balloon flights, the Pacific NW was drenched in winter moisture.




http://air-combat.suite101.com/article.cfm/japanese_balloon_bombs_of_wwii

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[mark 102]

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Now that we know the parachute found wasn't Coopers - who's was it?

Could the Japanese have also landed spies or saboteurs from the air during this time? I'm not sure if they had planes that could transit the Pacific at the time, but maybe carrier based aircraft could have done it. Or, they did have a toehold in the Aleutian Islands (off Alaska) and might have launched some operations from there.

There is only a remote chance a WWII Japanese spy or saboteur used a US military parachute manufactured in 1946.

Mark

[NickDG 23]

>>There is only a remote chance a WWII Japanese spy or saboteur used a US military parachute manufactured in 1946.
A really smart one would . . .
I hadn't realized they dated it.

NickD

[snowmman 3]

I want to thank everyone for the hospitality,
and apologize for my behavior.

I am just an interloper.
I have admiration for your strong community, sense of history, and camaraderie.

I think I identified a little with it, because of experiences with other similar communities.

In any case, I want this to be last post, and leave you with the thought, that if we met under different circumstances, you all might think differently of me (although possibly not! :)

Good luck with the main goal of enjoying this thing you've got going.

thanks,
-snow

[low_pull1 2]

..................
there are less dangerous ways of getting cash to meet the monthly bills.
......................

but not as many "easy" getaway paths. Cooper nailed this part if he got away alive.

[skyjack71 0]

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maybe he chose the nb6 over the pioneer sport rig because the pioneer rig would have been stamped(on the botton flap in inch and a half red letters)
LOW SPEED PARACHUTE LIMITED TO USE IN AIRCRAFT UNDER 150 MPH

WOW! Did you make that up or is it true? If indeed that was stamped on the chute - what idiot would not have chose the NB6. Like Duane always told me "KISS" and we all know what that means!

Maybe everyone including the FBI is trying to make this whole thing more complicated than it was.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

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From 1949 to 1956, he wrote and drew two space / science fiction series for "Heroic- Albums": Luc Condor and Roc Meteor. Weinberg joined the editorial team of "Tintin" in 1950, for which he created two science fiction series, the remarkable Alain Landier and Dan Cooper.

You will find something interesting. (See attached cartoons.

Now, Weinberg is still alive (where? I don’t know), but maybe, just maybe, he had contact with a fanatical admirer in the late 50’s and 60’s.

Look at the picture of that astronaut - look close - WHEN was that done and who did he use as a model.

I know - It is just me seeing something that isn't there, but that is not unusual...according to the FBI and others. It is the cheeks and the eyes - something I saw with the eyes.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[dumstuntzz 0]

it is true. any pioneer 3 or 4 pin sport container i have seen has that marking on the bottom flap.it always struck me as odd because the markings were not required per se, but i guess pioneer wanted to cover their butts. if any of you old timers have seen a pioneer 28' LoPo main from the 60's, you would also note that pioneer marked those as TSO C23b.odd for a main parachute,since it wasnt required.(never saw it on a para-commander that i can recall tho)

[Orange1 0]

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it is true. any pioneer 3 or 4 pin sport container i have seen has that marking on the bottom flap.it always struck me as odd because the markings were not required per se, but i guess pioneer wanted to cover their butts. if any of you old timers have seen a pioneer 28' LoPo main from the 60's, you would also note that pioneer marked those as TSO C23b.odd for a main parachute,since it wasnt required.(never saw it on a para-commander that i can recall tho)

Please explain to someone who's never used one of those old systems... surely it is deployment speed and not aircraft speed that is important? Or is there something about the way the system was set up that it would blow apart on exit? What I am trying to understand is, would an experienced jumper have taken it on the assumption that it would have been safe to deploy once they had slowed to terminal, so it would only be an issue for a hop & pop?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[skyjack71 0]

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I get stuck on Cooper themes and right now I am glued to the issue of how he found out that you could jump from a 727. Maybe it is like my SAGE radar addiction and will amount to nothing.

I have not been able to confirm that Boeing was the sole source of info on the ability to deploy a 727 rear door in flight at the time of Cooper's hijack, still digging. 377

Dear 377:

During the Viet Nam war the 727's were used to dump supplies - I do not remember off hand my source on this.

Duane had access to Boeing Schematics - not aware if the 727 was in this - the access was available to him in the 40's and the 727 was not even on the drawing board. He may have had access between 1958 and 1960 - but I am uncertain of this. I do not know if the brother was working in the same capacity nor what his affiliation with Boeing was.

I remember Duane telling me about a man named Roach who lived in CA - I don't know how much truth was in the story. Since it was hearsay and the source unreliable (obviously) I cannot elaborate. This is something I really wish the FBI would check out for me...BY THE WAY CKRET I am sending you a PM regarding this.

Somehow Duane knew an awful lot about planes - he could describe the plane and tell me about the different attributes and faults of that particular plane.
Maybe he aspired to be a pilot and his two attempts with the military ended that. I will also Note something in his letter from Camp Siebert - he states that the chemical end (referring to the war) of it is all right. Note that the tone of the letter indicates regret and mentions his brother in the same sentence.

If there is a FBI profiler reading this they might be able to make some sense of the above.

The FBI in 1971 went to Jefferson where Duane had been incarcerated until 1968 as John C. Collins because they recieved information that someone from the prison knew who Cooper was. I have ALWAYS wanted to know the name of this person and if he was an "associated" of Duane's during the Jefferson yrs. Was he John Collins - which is the only name the other prisoners knew Duane as? All so called the "Johnny Jar" guy.

If one wants to read some of the JJ Maloney accounts regarding Jefferson - you will find some of the inmates made change selling magazines and comics. One of these individuals was mentioned as selling foreign magazines...could that have been the Dan Cooper Comics. The man selling these items was known to Duane and his wife of the time.

OK FBI - time to find some answers. OK GUYS I need that private investigator NOW.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Orange1 0]

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OK FBI - time to find some answers. OK GUYS I need that private investigator NOW.

Actually Jo I really think a private investigator is your best bet. There are a whole lot of avenues you clearly want to explore that the FBI won't because (from what I understand) they don't see nearly enough (any?) real evidence from what you have so far provided them with to divert resources away from other, "real" stuff that they are doing (and your continual carping at them on this forum clearly isn't going to change their mind on that one). A PI could maybe get you some answers one way or the other and I have no doubt from what Larry has posted here that if there was actually any real evidence turned up as a result of it, they would follow up (just like they were prepared to do with the canopy found in WA for example).

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[novalis 0]

re: post 1086

a really interesting find! may not lead anywhere-- time will tell-- but good!

[377 20]

Jo wrote:

"During the Viet Nam war the 727's were used to dump supplies - I do not remember off hand my source on this."

Jo,

I can find no support for that, but I am not ruling it out. Given the presence in Vietnam of FAR more suitable tailgate acft for drop work (C 130, C 123, Caribous, etc) I can't see why a 727 would even be considered. I have never seen any photos of military cargo 727s operating in Vietnam.

There is a lot of controversy about why the 727 stairs were engineered for in flight deployment. The most James Bond-ish explanation is that the US Govt paid Boeing to do it so that covert "insertions" could be done by planes that appeared to be normal civil airliners overflying countries that would not permit US military planes in their airspace. Others say that it just worked out to be deployable in flight by chance and was not engineered specifically to do so.

Uncle Sam did pay Pan Am to reinforce the floors of their 747s so that they could be used to haul military cargo if needs exceeded USAF capacity. The payments went on for years to offset the extra fuel burn caused by the increased empty weight.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[n467us 0]

Observations after having perused this forum for some time... sorry that this crosses into speculation, but that is how we can collectively get to the bottom of this. These thoughts are wide open for comment, but represent how I feel:

> Cooper: Doubtful that this was his first jump, and his knowledge of parachuting was more advanced than the FBI wanted/wants to believe. While the weather conditions were not ideal, they did not make this impossible either. To determine that he died during the jump with nothing concrete to substantiate that is just a convenient way to explain the fact they botched this one. Sorry ckret, that's how I see it. BIG THING TO CONSIDER: Cooper, whoever he really was, took control of this hijacking in a non-violent manner (have seen nothing saying he yelled, etc.), from what I have researched, maintained his composure throughout and pulled this off with no casualties. If I were profiling him, I would be researching 1950's-1960's bank robbery criminals. I am convinced this was not his first (or even his last) crime.

> Cooper died during jump (NOT): I don't care if Cooper was single, married, etc. - S-O-M-E-B-O-D-Y would have eventually missed him enough to say something. In the early 1970's a missing person was not an everyday occurrence as today. The fact that he did not board the flight looking like a street person proves he had some access to $$.

> Investigation: Because the FBI actually believed they would find their man (this being the first such chute jump hijacking), the crime scene was not processed as would be the case today. There was most likely evidence that was not collected. DNA had not been introduced yet, etc.

> Interviews with flight crew: Without access to actual transcripts, and just reading bits and pieces, it's hard to imagine what type of questions were asked of the stewardess. For example, was she asked:
Q: When Cooper was in the lavatory, did he close the door completely? What sounds did you hear? Did his appearance change after exiting? and on... and on... **RELEASE of this data can be crucial to fresh clues from different eyes... how about it FBI??**

> Duane Weber: I sympathize with Jo Weber, because she believes that her husband had involvement in this, and I think there is enough circumstantial evidence to agree that this is an avenue that should be investigated until exhausted. Why do I think the FBI has no interest? Because Duane has passed away. Prosecution in absentia is worthless. Were he still alive, they most certainly would have treated him more as a suspect provided the data we have today was available. I doubt, however, that Jo would have wanted any attention to this if Duane was still with us -- I wouldn't. Another theory I have puts Mr. Weber in some status that prevents the FBI from getting too close (does the acronym CIA ring a bell??). Not trying to revise conspiracy theories but it sounds likely. Regardless of whether Duane was Cooper or not, Jo deserves to know more about him.

> Mystery suspect: Would like to know more about the most recent "suspect" revealed on the coast to coast radio show. Has anybody ID'd this guy yet? He is the closest match to the sketches that I have seen so far. What do we know????

[Orange1 0]

hmmm.. some interesting points.

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BIG THING TO CONSIDER: Cooper, whoever he really was, took control of this hijacking in a non-violent manner (have seen nothing saying he yelled, etc.), from what I have researched, maintained his composure throughout and pulled this off with no casualties. If I were profiling him, I would be researching 1950's-1960's bank robbery criminals. I am convinced this was not his first (or even his last) crime.

That makes a lot of sense to me. The way you describe it, also sounds like he was someone used to being in authority.

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> Cooper died during jump (NOT): I don't care if Cooper was single, married, etc. - S-O-M-E-B-O-D-Y would have eventually missed him enough to say something. In the early 1970's a missing person was not an everyday occurrence as today. The fact that he did not board the flight looking like a street person proves he had some access to $$.

We've discussed the "why not missed if dead" at length.. but something has just occurred to me. Maybe he was missed, but for some reason no-one thought to connect him to the crime. Ckret, do we have any idea how many missing persons reports would have been filed in the US in say the day to month after the hijacking, that matched the description? Would they all have been followed up as a matter of course? I guess another point to consider though, if your point 1 is right.. maybe his family didn't want to report him missing, or do anything else that would involve cops.

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Regardless of whether Duane was Cooper or not, Jo deserves to know more about him.

I agree with that, but I'm not at all convinced that it is the FBI's job. The idea of a PI has been raised; I'm sure she could find one who she could convince that there was something in her story, and to whom the publicity that would come with proof of DB Cooper would offset, maybe, the need to charge her for services rendered.

The conspiracy theory angle (which seems to wax and wane you may have noticed) just doesn't wash with me, apart from anything else it's been pointed out that someone always talks somewhere. And I mean, it's not like DB Cooper assassinated anyone important, is it?

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Mystery suspect: Would like to know more about the most recent "suspect" revealed on the coast to coast radio show. Has anybody ID'd this guy yet? He is the closest match to the sketches that I have seen so far. What do we know????

Those of us outside the US know even less. Are there any internet links to transcripts of any of these shows?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.