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DB Cooper

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It doesn't really matter if you discuss Kenny or not. I'm basically telling this board my opinion. similar to you speaking about Peterson. claims of holding things back and fairness? isn't that what you accuse the FBI of with the Amboy chute by not telling everything? other people with suspects say they hold things back as well. they never say they can't discuss the suspect though. 

$20 bills dated from the 80's. it's not evidence of anything. anyone could of buried that money. it's a wooded area. lots of people would be around there. even though it was private property. Kenny wouldn't have any need to bury money dated from the 80's. not a sole was looking at or for him. 

I remember Buddy saying Bernie wasn't the accomplice. that kind of destroys the whole thing.

The FBI story makes no sense. why would they close the case because Kenny is dead. they spent a long time working with Marla Cooper. LD is dead. why would they bother with any suspect that was dead? they spent 4 decades looking for him. they want a conclusion just like anyone else. why would they work the Kenny angle alone. did they contact ANY of his family or friends in the past 5 years? instinct, assumptions only? they had Marla Cooper take a polygraph. 

Where did Kenny launder the money he was giving out so quickly after the crime or did he give out $5,000 of the ransom? 

The production company seems to suffer with budget. you have claimed so many things. it's been starting for the last two years, three really. a year ago you claim to speak with them monthly or weekly. why wouldn't you have all the answers? I thought they found a writer a year ago as you stated on The Mountain News? even a year ago the stall was waiting for another production company to come on board. that happened and has  also come and gone. lots of conflicts in this story. that's why questions come your way. it has nothing to do with my opinion. I think a movie would be cool but not much different than all the other shows over the years. it will fade away like the rest. personally, I don't think enough people really care about Cooper. the film would require top notch actors to reel people in. 10-20 million right there alone with just one actor or top role. it must be backing as one of the issues. is this a box office movie or made for TV movie? 

 

 

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Your opinions, mostly uninformed and a lot of guesswork, are noted. To answer some of your questions, no...the studios do not have a problem with budgeting. Yes, it is to be a feature film, not made for TV. 

When you sign a confidentiality agreement with movie studios, and they are cutting you a four-figure check each year to provide them with information exclusively to be used in the making of the picture...you keep your end of the bargain unless you are a fool. Because of that, it is not kosher for me to discuss Kenny too much on forums, because it is not fair to do that.  

As far as your questions regarding FBI agent John Jarvis and his revelations to three witnesses, all with security clearances and working civilian jobs with the US government...the production companies have decided that this evidence is strong enough that they plan to use it in the picture, and name names. I agree, because everyone around here believes the evidence is solid enough to warrant it. Jarvis' testimony was already presented in the British picture from last year, the one not released yet by Minnow Films. So it isn't like we will breaking new ground on that. 

When the Decoded episode aired on Cooper/Christiansen in January 2011, it IS true that Buddy Levy said he thought Bernie Geestman wasn't the accomplice. I have already published the emails that came later from both Buddy and cast member Scott Rolle (judge, former Maryland state prosecutor, just returned from service in Afghanistan) showing that both of them had changed their minds after seeing our 2015 report on Kenny to the Seattle FBI. They now believe Geestman was involved in the hijacking. I will quote their emails for you again if you wish.

Things have moved beyond just your opinions, despite your best efforts. I gave a very honest assessment of the situation regarding this film back there. Not just for you, but for EVERYONE.

It is what it is. 

Yes, I have questioned the FBI's responses to the Amboy chute. I gave pretty good reasons why. As far as how long it takes to bring a story to film, that depends on a number of factors. It's been just over two years since I signed the option, and things have progressed much better than I anticipated. It's a learning process and Hollywood is a funny place. However, I think chances are good they will eventually green-light the picture. That's all I can tell you. As far as your other questions, if you were REALLY interested in knowing the answers, you wouldn't have banned me from your website and allowed people like Georger (your most prolific user besides yourself) to post smack about us all the time...including name-calling and the unending insults to others which he is famous for... B|

 

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(edited)

Interesting video by Eric, although I think everyone realizes by now that Cooper had no intention of going all the way to Mexico City. He would have been extradited back to the US the moment the Mexican authorities picked him up. I doubt Cooper's comments regarding Minnesota, the Puget Sound area etc were red herrings, but were simply conversation with stew Tina Mucklow that he thought was harmless. However, Eric misses the biggest red herring of all...the money found on the Columbia River in 1980...which has almost no chance of being deposited in that area nine years prior to its discovery. It is much more likely that the money appeared there AFTER the FBI got their famous 'John Doe' warrant in 1976, bypassing the Statute of Limitations. 

You have to put yourself in Cooper's shoes for a moment. Imagine you are watching the Northwest TV news on November 24, 1976 and discover that instead of being free and clear after five years as you expected...that the FBI played a real cute trick on you and can now hunt you for the remainder of your life. It must have been a crushing blow, a disappointment beyond belief for Cooper...who may have responded by trying to make the FBI believe he had been killed in the jump. What better way to do that than to somehow deposit some of the money near the largest body of water in the entire area, a river that Flight 305 did pass over during its travels. If you are going to do a red herring move with the money, you can't do it in the woods. Even if the money is discovered later, the FBI is going to do one hell of a big search in that area. Finding no body, briefcase, chute, or additional money, they will conclude that Cooper LIVED and perhaps just lost some of the money. The hunt would continue with even MORE fervor. Water must be involved, and it must be BIG water. 

IF the money at Tina Bar was truly a red herring, it worked to an extent. After the discovery of the money, the FBI started saying in media that they now believed Cooper WAS dead, and they began scaling back their search (and the budget) for the hijacker.  

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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12 hours ago, Andrade1812 said:

377--

 

From my own research I found that wearing gloves was actually a contributing factor in a significant number of no-pull skydiving fatalities. 

What was the temperature and windchill? Without gloves he likely would have trouble pulling unless there were big D rings.  Dangerous either way.

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From what I heard here, the weather at either 7,600 or 10,000 feet in the Portland area was based on estimates only. Hard to say. Weather records and predictions are much better today than they were almost 50 years ago. (Some people claim the flight was actually at 7,600 feet, some say 10,000) 

However, here is the ground-level report from Portland International Airport on the day of the hijacking. Shows light rain perhaps, winds had dropped to their lowest level of the day by 8PM. 

Note: I know as much about the weather as the average person and no more. When I go out into the high country, I always listen to the NOAA reports on radio. :)

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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12 hours ago, Andrade1812 said:

377--

 

From my own research I found that wearing gloves was actually a contributing factor in a significant number of no-pull skydiving fatalities. 

Gloves are a mixed bag Marty. When it's so cold you can't feel your bare hands (as it was on my two 24,000 ft jumps), they are almost essential. They do, however, significantly reduce your ability to identify and correctly grasp objects using tackle feedback. On modern gear, it is impossible to see the object that is used to initiate the opening sequence on your main. It is located behind you. Only by feeling around can you locate, grasp and extract it from its elasticized pocket. I've been experimenting with gloves the fingertips cut off and so far so good. You get most of your hand protected from the cold but maintain uncovered fingertips for max sensitivity.

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27 minutes ago, 812Shadow said:

What was the temperature and windchill? Without gloves he likely would have trouble pulling unless there were big D rings.  Dangerous either way.

I don't know those exact numbers 812Shadow, but if Cooper pulled right away after exiting they wouldn't matter. 

The whole idea of the skyjack was so innovative. Cooper had to be a really creative guy, an out-of-the-box thinker. Those who went before him just used the planes to go to Cuba or some other venue that wouldn't extradite. 

What makes you so sure he was military? I think he was too but I can't articulate exactly why. 

Peterson said on the History Channel interview that he could have done the Cooper jump successfully.  I agree. He had all the skills needed and the guts as well. His ability, however, didn't come from military training. He was a Marine and did not take jump training in the service. 

I bet against Peterson once. We bet $20 on the outcome of the last presidential election. I felt bad, like I was taking $20 from an old man who didn't see the big picture. I sure don't think that anymore. I paid him with ten two dollar bills. 

377

 

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1 hour ago, 377 said:

Gloves are a mixed bag Marty. When it's so cold you can't feel your bare hands (as it was on my two 24,000 ft jumps), they are almost essential. They do, however, significantly reduce your ability to identify and correctly grasp objects using tackle feedback. On modern gear, it is impossible to see the object that is used to initiate the opening sequence on your main. It is located behind you. Only by feeling around can you locate, grasp and extract it from its elasticized pocket. I've been experimenting with gloves the fingertips cut off and so far so good. You get most of your hand protected from the cold but maintain uncovered fingertips for max sensitivity.

I looked at 106 incidents on the skydiving fatalities database that were labelled as "No Pulls", of these 17 were mals with the jumper failing to open the reserve in time (including one jumper who pulled his reserve instead of his main and had a mal). A number were inexplicable. Factors I noted in the other deaths were:

#1 demonstration jumps, filmmaking or formation jumps (factor present in 31 incidents),

#2 Age, Health or pre-existing injuries (12 incidents)

#3 Borrowed Equipment (8 incidents)

#4 Suicides (6 incidents, maybe more)

Of the rest, you have four students dying on their first solo jumps, three deaths in Antarctica (which factors do you count there?), three instructors trying to save students, two to five glove related (maybe not that significant?), two substance abusers, and one night jump.

Forty-eight of these jumps are inexplicable: Good weather, experienced and healthy skydivers with no history of depression, working equipment, etc.

Edited by Andrade1812

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Andrade wrote: "Forty-eight of these jumps are inexplicable: Good weather, experienced and healthy skydivers with no history of depression, working equipment, etc."

I am familiar with a number of these inexplicable no pulls Marty and they scare me a bit. What the hell happened? Could it possibly happen to me? In addition to at least one visual altimeter, I wear an audible altimeter and jump with an AAD. Theoretically, that gear should dramatically reduce the chance of me replicating those mystery no pull deaths. 

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6 minutes ago, 377 said:

Andrade wrote: "Forty-eight of these jumps are inexplicable: Good weather, experienced and healthy skydivers with no history of depression, working equipment, etc."

I am familiar with a number of these inexplicable no pulls Marty and they scare me a bit. What the hell happened? Could it possibly happen to me? In addition to at least one visual altimeter, I wear an audible altimeter and jump with an AAD. Theoretically, that gear should dramatically reduce the chance of me replicating those mystery no pull deaths. 

Driving to the airfield is probably a thousand times more dangerous than anything you do at the drop zone. And based on our interactions Mark, you've got to be one of the most safety-conscious skydivers on the planet right now. I hope you enjoy a thousand more perfect drops.

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I've been trying to imagine how Cooper came up with the idea for this bold venture. I sometimes mused about how skydiving could be used to facilitate a crime. I always imagined parachuting as a way to get into a guarded site. My thinking was way too narrow. It literally never occurred to me that you could force authorities to deliver cash to a hijacked plane which would then fly to a remote location where one could jump with the loot and avoid discovery and capture. 

377

Edited by 377

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The temps at 10,000 reported by the pilots were -7 Celcius  which would be 19 degrees F. this was noted in the area just before the Lake Merwin. it's always been mistakenly reported as -7 F. 

McNally had zero skills and jumped going almost a hundred knots faster. he did a free fall count of 30 seconds before pulling. he said he went into a spin with just a movement of his arm. claims his goggles pushed into his eye sockets as soon as he hit the stream. his story is a little wild. he claims he was holding onto the stairs with his body off the stairs and said if an agent would of came into the back, he could of taken a shot at him. then he watched the money separate from him on the way down and thought about releasing the harness and ending it. then while drifting decided he was going to do it again but was soon caught. he also found out the money landed close by to where he was. no training, no military. just read some books and did some recon and off he went. pretty simple. for some reason Cooper needs to be special opts. experience skydiver, master criminal etc. 

Edited by mrshutter45

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1 hour ago, mrshutter45 said:

for some reason Cooper needs to be special opts. experience skydiver, master criminal etc. 

I agree. The "Cooper had knowledge of the 727" lead failed to produce a viable suspect in the last forty years, SP aside, and it appears Cooper got a few things wrong about how the stairs actually operated. In my mind the reasoning was simple (hindsight bias admitted here):

How do you keep the money? Escape with a parachute...

How do you jump from an aircraft? Through a door.

How do you prevent the aircraft from becoming pressurized? Keep the door open

What's the best door to get out of? Those rear stairs found on a few aircraft, including the popular 727.

What did Cooper do? Tried to keep the door open. When forced to close the door for takeoff, what did he do? Work to get the door open ASAP, with the help of a flight attendant. When the stairs didn't go down, what did Cooper do? Tell the pilot to go slower until he could get out. There's just a lot of linear thinking here, nothing more than simple problem solving and maybe some a priori research.

 

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6 hours ago, EJU said:

Daily DB Cooper Bite. I discuss DB Cooper's use of red herrings.

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DBCooperChannel

 

 

This is a great example of a lack of critical thinking.. 

Cooper demanded to fly "nonstop" aka no stopping in the US, fuel anywhere in Mexico...

Why would Cooper say "nonstop" if he knew the plane didn't have the range and the flight would be rejected and renegotiated. Why not just say Mexico? or pick some place far south. Why say no US stops at all if he wanted to jump outside Seattle?

Simple, he believed it. Cooper wanted to go to Mexico and jump outside the US.

other factors..

Cooper wasn't dressed for a PNW jump..

Cooper was Latin/Swarthy/Mexican in features and appearance.

Cooper asked for money using "US" and "American", that suggests a foreign influence.

Cooper's initial demand according to transcripts was rear stairs lowered in flight. Transcripts are far more reliable than 302's.

 

The speculation that Cooper was so clever he made a (nonstop) demand he knew was unachievable, would be rejected and renegotiated as a ruse is utter nonsense.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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(edited)

377 says in part:
 

Quote

'The whole idea of the skyjack was so innovative. Cooper had to be a really creative guy, an out-of-the-box thinker. Those who went before him just used the planes to go to Cuba or some other venue that wouldn't extradite. What makes you so sure he was military? I think he was too but I can't articulate exactly why...'

Cooper may have gotten his idea from hijackers like Paul Cini or Arthur Gates Barkley, and said to himself, "I'm smarter than THOSE guys..."  He may have even learned some lessons reading their stories in the newspapers. Cooper wasn't the first guy to hijack a plane for money and then plan to escape by chute. He was just the first guy who was cool about it. Cini was a drunk, and Barkley was a complete nut case. Barkley had no parachute, of course. But he did demand the FBI line the runway with mail sacks full of money. In general, between 1968 and 1972, an aircraft was hijacked in the US on the average of every two weeks, if you can believe that. The worldwide number in the same time period was one hijacking every five days or so. That is an epidemic. 

As far as being military, I think there are two signs that perhaps point to that. First is the way Cooper asked for the chutes, i.e. 'two front and two back chutes,' which might be the way someone who had been in the paratroops, especially many years prior to the hijacking, could have asked for them. This is opposed to asking for 'two mains and two reserves,' which I believe is a more civilian, more modern term if you will. Also, the selection of the military style chute when they arrived, of course. Mucklow said Cooper looked like he knew what he was doing when he donned that NB rig. This is why I believe Cooper was probably an ex-paratrooper who had little, or most likely NO civilian jumping experience. This could also be why he was never discovered by researching the user list at dropzones. 

I linked a video below of a WW2 paratrooper training film. It's pretty interesting. They went through extensive practice training BEFORE being allowed to jump static line on their own, much more than any civilian would have to do to make their first solo jump. 

(EDIT:  You can download the military manual to the chute and container Cooper jumped with HERE. Right-click and select Open in New Tab [or Window] for best results.) 

 

 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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These 'daily bites' are okay, but they're not getting the internet traffic they deserve. After 56 of them, we see less than 5,200 total views at YouTube.

So here at AB of Seattle, we've come up with an idea to compress the first 60 of them (we assume there will be at least four more) into a ten-minute video. This idea was not mine, but came today from Adventure Books' Greg the Techie Guy. 

Greg suggested creating a series of sixty index cards, each of them printed with the subject of the Ulis videos, and arranging these cards in order from the first video, to number 60. And then having me read off the subject of a particular video, with about ten seconds given for me to respond to each one. Our goal is cover all sixty videos in a space of eight minutes or less, including the front and end credits. 

This will take some time to prepare, and a trip to the store for the index cards. Don't expect anything for at least a week. Probably two. Shooting location will probably be outdoors, in a location with little to no background noise. "You're going to have to be pretty quick on your feet, Robert..." says Greg, who will do the actual shooting. 

I'll admit it's a challenge, but it sounds like a fun one. We will NOT be making fun of Eric in this video. That isn't the point of it. The point is to GET TO THE POINT on the many subjects he has brought up in all of these videos and save people a lot of time. Some humor WILL be allowed, but nothing in the nature of personal attacks. You could consider it more like Saturday Night Live type humor. A little humor occasionally in Cooperland certainly can't hurt. 
 

video camero.jpg

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Have you even spoke with Eric about this. are you just taking the video's off of YouTube for a promotion for yourself basically? 

 

He works more with the media...

https://www.azfamily.com/news/hunt-for-db-cooper-phoenix-man-says-feds-miscalculated-landing/article_48b539e0-9a12-11e9-9704-63997938de94.html

Edited by mrshutter45

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47 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said:

Have you even spoke with Eric about this. are you just taking the video's off of YouTube for a promotion for yourself basically? 

I thought I made my point clear. And everyone involved with the Cooper case works with the media. Marla Cooper worked with the media. Even I do, sometimes. As far as 'promotion,' I would call posting 60 videos on the Cooper case, some with pitches to pay money to go on that Tina Bar Boat Tour...the same thing. (For the record, I SUPPORT the idea of Eric's boat tours, which are a screaming deal.) 

No...we are NOT 'copying' portions of Eric's videos from YouTube. That would be copyright infringement. What I did over the last hour was to view each video briefly, from #1 to #60 and jot down the SUBJECT of each video in the order they were originally presented. 

Then, I read the subject of each video (in order) for the camera, and get ten seconds or less to make a response to each one. I will do this from a stack of index cards I hold in my hand. Each card will have the number of the video and the subject listed. I read each one out loud, toss it to the side, and give a quick response. That's the basic format. 

Greg figures that by doing this, we can cover all sixty videos in about eight minutes. There will be some humor involved here, although we will do that on the up and up and not take cheap shots. 

I've been getting some pressure lately to produce another video anyway...they do this with comments to the previous videos, or by email mostly. It will be fun and funny. Sometimes a bit of humor is called for in Cooperland. Everyone is so damn serious, I swear. It's like you guys never watch SNL. Remember the video below that I did? That wasn't meant to be completely serious either...:) In the title image below, you can see my high-school girlfriend 'Georgia' on the left, showing her resemblance to the only American woman who hasn't been caught for her role in a US skyjacking, Catherine Kurkow. I teased Georgia about it. She took it well. It's a LOUD video...so check your speakers before clicking on the link.

 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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(edited)

I might like the escape from Alcatraz case more than Cooper. I doubt I would pay $50 bucks to someone who isn't really associated with the park. besides the fee's were removed...never heard the turnout.. 

Why haven't you become a partner on YouTube? 

Edited by mrshutter45

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1 minute ago, mrshutter45 said:

I might like the escape from Alcatraz more than Cooper. I doubt I would pay $50 bucks to someone who isn't really associated with the park. besides the fee's were removed...never heard the turnout.. 

Why haven't you become a partner on YouTube? 

Partner on YouTube? I only have ten videos associated with Cooper on YouTube, and a couple of them were done by others. (Our restoration on the TV reports with the Tina Bar money is one of them we didn't do.)

I'm not understanding your Alcatraz reference. You mean the tour of Alcatraz down in San Francisco? Yes, that would be interesting. 

Side Note:  Fireworks are illegal where I live...and someone is out there shooting off a damn handgun. I know the sound of a 9MM Glock when I hear it. Jerks. The cat is in the closet. 

Took me longer than I thought to copy down the subject of all sixty videos. Over an hour. A few are duplicates, more or less. Not many, though. This should be interesting. I just have to figure out WHERE to shoot the thing. 

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My point was I wouldn't pay someone who wasn't a real business or associated with the subject be it Alcatraz, Hoffa, Cooper etc. someone certified. especially on water. lots of liability. you take that risk promoting your company and camping trips with no liability insurance. 

YouTube partnership should be your major goal. more views, better placement. reaching people is your other goal. you worry about someone else's views when you could triple your own. I don't think they have a limit on video's but again you seem to like promoting video's. you have to keep the interest going. you don't make enough to achieve that goal. basically, it sounds like we need to work on yours as well? 

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Actually, it's harder than I thought becoming a partner...

  • Have at least 1,000 subscribers.
  • Have at least 4,000 hours of watch time within the past 12 months.
  • Channel/content must adhere to the YouTube Partner Program policies, YouTube Terms of Service, YouTube spam policies, and the Community Guidelines.

 

You can do this avenue..

YouTube's partnership program helps users to develop their video-making skills, increase their subscriber count and boost their revenues. However, if you're not a YouTube partner, you are not exempt from the money-making. You can still monetize your videos by using a Google AdSense account, which is free. When your visitors click the ads displayed on your videos, the earnings are deposited in your AdSense account and paid to you after they reach a given threshold.

Edited by mrshutter45

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