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quade

DB Cooper

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This is not a court room Robert. you clog up the forum with all of this constantly. comments made from 2011, 2015. really? I thought none of this bothered you? you once again claimed you stopped viewing Bruce's site. that's obviously not true either (again).

How "people are going to get hurt" turned into a bomb threat is beyond me. I really don't remember much about the whole thing. 

You want to clear it up? go to the source. pull the law suit thing you never claim to do. contact his website. complaining about it for years is not the answer either. it's not productive. 

People don't like you. it's pretty obvious. it has nothing to do with jealousy. it's your personality. these are public forums. it is what it is Robert. there is no perfection as you are looking for. I'm not here to conform to your demands either. that's a quote from a member who left your forum. just as things simmer down you will quickly change it tossing in these type of comments. this began with views on someone else's video's and turned into accusations from long ago. 

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38 minutes ago, 812Shadow said:

Yes it sounds like an exaggeration. Is there any history of him being interested in Sheridan Peterson?

Eric has a knack for self promotion...

"Eric began investigating the DB Cooper mystery about 10 years ago with the goal of gaining a better understanding of the facts in the case and bringing some clarity to the legend. Initially, he did not think he would actually identify a suspect."

 

Sheridan Peterson was  Sailshaw's  suspect, he pushed the FBI .. Eric has done nothing.

https://themountainnewswa.net/2018/01/27/db-cooper-world-loses-a-sleuth-remembering-bob-sailshaw/

 

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(edited)
20 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said:

I'm not contacting you privately. you brought this into the public light. expect questions to be asked. no reason to hide anything, especially they way you posted it.

Ask your questions. PRIVATELY. Your public ones, especially when you name names where I did not...will not be answered publicly. However, you are not blocked from email or PM's. I don't see where too many questions are necessary. I laid out the details pretty plain back there. Not sure what your questions would be, but I am certainly not going to post folks' IP addresses on the internet. 

The reason I brought all this up in the first place was because of the RECENT threats made at Bruce Smith's site. You saw them, because you were posting up right behind them, although you didn't do any of that yourself. Whether people 'like' me in Cooperland or not is moot. Why would they? Many of them spent YEARS posting in the negative about us for no good reason...and then we got the movie option anyway, which is worth a few thousand a year if nothing else. All of that effort for nothing. Of course people are going to get pissed. B|

However, this doesn't mean that they should engage in making threats toward AB of Seattle, its members, or anyone invited along on our occasional Cooper Campouts. I got fed up. What do you want from me? If this happened with Eric and his Boat Tours, you would be going through the roof...but since it is AB of Seattle staff...you only go on the defensive. What will you do if I send you the IP address of a certain person and PROVE it is matched to the comments? Will you ban this person from your site? Will you and some of your hard core members call him out for his actions?

I doubt it. So why bother wanting to know the truth? As Jack Nicholson said, you can't handle it. On the other hand, if you don't speak out occasionally for what is right in Cooperland, then you can not be considered a leader there. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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Robert, you brought this here, not me. it's a discussion forum, no? when you post something you should expect a reply, no? you clearly accused someone that was obvious without giving the name. 

You need to speak to Bruce personally. you both live close by. as for Georger, that's up to you as well and not any of us on this board. sounds like it's between you guys, so keep all of us out of the drama. it's more negative than anything. it serves no purpose while trying to discuss Cooper. it can't be done here with you constantly bringing it up out of nowhere. 

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1 minute ago, mrshutter45 said:

Robert, you brought this here, not me. it's a discussion forum, no? when you post something you should expect a reply, no? you clearly accused someone that was obvious without giving the name. 

You need to speak to Bruce personally. you both live close by. as for Georger, that's up to you as well and not any of us on this board. sounds like it's between you guys, so keep all of us out of the drama. it's more negative than anything. it serves no purpose while trying to discuss Cooper. it can't be done here with you constantly bringing it up out of nowhere. 

Some of your points are valid. The other things are old news. The thing with Smith is very recent. There is no use in talking to him. He never backs down on anything, even when he's wrong. We handled the campout threat thing by moving the meetup spot, and changing back to the old way we organized the attendees. We asked people to contact us first if they wanted to go, rather than just putting every detail out there publicly. We had posts and pictures and maps going at WordPress, Quora Space Cooper, and City Data Forum/Portland. The only negative stuff arriving from all that came from Mountain News. 

We learned our lesson on that one. 

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It's all old news, Robert. I surely don't have the time to sort this out with everyone. that's up to you all. feuds have been going on with family's for decades. this appears to be no different. trash talk is not uncommon either. I'll bet hits go out on the Hoffa pages :) Georger posted not long ago a quote from you calling us "idiots an lowlifes" . you had a moderator, who is meant to keep the peace call Bruce a scumbag and it remained on the page for a long time. the crap goes both ways. again, all from years ago. they are a little out of control over at TMN. as I mentioned. it's apparent they don't like you. 

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I and most other old school skydivers would be flattered if we were considered DBC suspects.

Many jumpers claimed to have been investigated by the FBI. I think most of them were lying. That’s how much of a status symbol it was. 

I’ll wave all defamation claims in advance. I had a 727 flight manual in 1971 and lots of jumps with military surplus gear  I had flown to Seattle in 71 a few months prior to the skyjack on a 727. Sigh, still no takers. What’s a guy gotta do?

377

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Everyone, including myself assumed Cooper wanted to jump ASAP.. this was supported by the idea that Cooper initially demanded rear stairs down on takeoff, makes sense. The transcripts clearly indicate he initially wanted them lowered in flight by the stew then the crew started negotiating with him. The pilots had a plan to escape. Cooper later decided he wanted the rear stairs down on take off, then partial,  presumably to allow Tina off the plane. He then decided again to have them lowered in flight. The airstairs down on take-off idea came from the negotiation with the crew, it was not his initial or final demand.

The point is contradicted in some 302's, but they are less reliable than transcripts. FBI 302's are notorious for inaccuracies, by the nature of their production. I found an FBI document that 100% supports the transcript.. which means that Cooper did NOT initially demand rear stairs down on take-off and therefore there is no evidence he wanted to jump ASAP or outside Seattle.

Note. he also demanded no landing in the US "for fuel or anything". Why make an unachievable demand that would be rejected?

Note. the plane was at flaps 30 not 15. 

I think Cooper said flaps down, then when prompted for a number said 15 degrees. (per Tosaw). This communication vagueness may be where the range got messed up for Cooper. He may have intended 15 degrees for his jump, not the entire flight.

Note. Reno was suggested to him.

 

aftstairstakeoffa.jpg.a5cdf23c2902e7da23148290921ac623.jpg

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Quote

"14 DME S Seattle"

This stands for what? '14 miles south of Seattle by Distance Measuring Equipment?'

If so, by the time the flight reached 19 miles south of the airport, the stairs had already been released, it says. Nineteen miles south of Sea Tac is barely past Tacoma. Sounds like Cooper wasn't planning to stay aboard any longer than necessary. Why would he take the risk of opening the stairs so quickly if he was planning to jump much further south? 

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(edited)

The demand was 15 degree's period. once they were at 7,000 Cooper wanted the plane slowed down. Rat put the flaps at 30 degree's. then the ground told them they wouldn't even make Reno in that configuration and shortly after switched back to 15 and they remained at 15 till they landed.

DME. is Distance Measured Electronically or Distance measuring equipment from aircraft to ground stations VOR'S, Airports..

19 miles DME is parallel with McChord AFB. 

Edited by mrshutter45

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5 hours ago, 377 said:

I and most other old school skydivers would be flattered if we were considered DBC suspects.

Many jumpers claimed to have been investigated by the FBI. I think most of them were lying. That’s how much of a status symbol it was. 

I’ll wave all defamation claims in advance. I had a 727 flight manual in 1971 and lots of jumps with military surplus gear  I had flown to Seattle in 71 a few months prior to the skyjack on a 727. Sigh, still no takers. What’s a guy gotta do?

377

I would consider you a more viable suspect than some of the others being promoted as such.  LOL. 

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1 hour ago, mrshutter45 said:

The demand was 15 degree's period. once they were at 7,000 Cooper wanted the plane slowed down. Rat put the flaps at 30 degree's. then the ground told them they wouldn't even make Reno in that configuration and shortly after switched back to 15 and they remained at 15 till they landed.

DME. is Distance Measured Electronically or Distance measuring equipment from aircraft to ground stations VOR'S, Airports..

19 miles DME is parallel with McChord AFB. 

He initially demanded flaps down,, Tosaw claims, they were trying to calculate the range and needed the exact flap setting, they went back to Cooper and asked, he then said 15 degrees. Cooper was prompted for it (according to Tosaw) and that is significant. I can't confirm this but have no reason to doubt it.

If this is the case we don't really know if he meant 15 degrees all the way or not.

 

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1 hour ago, RobertMBlevins said:

This stands for what? '14 miles south of Seattle by Distance Measuring Equipment?'

If so, by the time the flight reached 19 miles south of the airport, the stairs had already been released, it says. Nineteen miles south of Sea Tac is barely past Tacoma. Sounds like Cooper wasn't planning to stay aboard any longer than necessary. Why would he take the risk of opening the stairs so quickly if he was planning to jump much further south? 

The order of events is crucial...

His initial demand was rear stairs opened in flight,, that was with no stops in the US. 

When they agreed to land in Reno, Cooper's plan changed and he jumped earlier. He didn't want to be on the plane when it landed in Reno. When he readily accepted landing in Reno for fuel he had decided to jump earlier than planned. He then wanted the stairs down early.

 

 

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11 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

The order of events is crucial...

His initial demand was rear stairs opened in flight,, that was with no stops in the US. 

When they agreed to land in Reno, Cooper's plan changed and he jumped earlier. He didn't want to be on the plane when it landed in Reno. When he readily accepted landing in Reno for fuel he had decided to jump earlier than planned. He then wanted the stairs down early.

 

 

Why did he want the flaps down?

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(edited)

After reviewing the video footage from the Oregon trip, I have dumped it. There was a shooting pit about a half mile from the main campsite and there is too much background noise on it. The day we tried to shoot video, some reloaders showed up with a few thousand rounds ready to go. They went at it most of the day. 

Wonderful...

I knew I should have stuck to the Olympic Mountains LOL. ¬¬

However, we will have no such problem on the next campout, which will be held in August up above the Skokomish River Valley about 20 miles (as the crow flies) NW of Shelton, WA. We will do the Eric Video Review shoot there. I have held two campouts in this location and it is as quiet as a church, thank God. Exact date not set, but 90% it will be August 9-12. Updated information on how anyone can attend will be provided soon at the main AB of Seattle website, Quora Space for DB Cooper, and WordPress. 

The location of the June campout is shown below. That clear area up above the main campsite...guilty party area. 

mainsitemap.jpg

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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(edited)

After watching Eric's final July 5 video, where he mentions his second Cooper Convention is coming the weekend prior to Thanksgiving, I have some comments and predictions about it:

1) There are less than five months to go, and still no real information has been released, or any program about the event, other than he plans to split the program between Vancouver and Portland. 

2) No 'headliners' have been announced, which is something you absolutely need in order to get a real audience through the doors...especially if you expect people to show up on Black Friday Shopping weekend. 

3) In my opinion, the proposed gathering at the V23 Brewery in Vancouver should NOT be a public-invited thing, but a last-second meeting of the organizers and speakers involved with the convention. Your best bet is to direct the public to the MAIN event instead. 

4) If Eric tries to pull this off without additional assistance, and plans to organize the whole thing alone, attendance will be minimal. To pull something like this off successfully, you cannot do it alone. Either that, or you'd better have deep pockets, great connections, and a fat wallet. 

5) Jim Brunberg at Mississippi Studios in Portland offered up his venue FREE for the main event. Since March, when Brunberg assigned Eric Ulis as the coordinator and asked him to cooperate with the other people who were ALREADY working on a separate event at M. Studios, there has not been a peep from either Brunberg or Ulis on progress, or whether the main event will still be held at Mississippi Studios. M. Studios is a popular bar with a separate stage venue for music and other events, and is located near Stark street in Portland. 

6) If this event is simply to be a rerun of last year's Con, using the same old faces and same speakers as LAST year, without what I call 'the hook,' (special item to get bodies into the doors) then attendance can be predicted to be the same - or less - as last year's. If this is the case, then what will happen the following year?

7) Eric, as the organizer, should not show bias or try to turn the event into a convention whose main goal is to present Sheridan Peterson as the hijacker. The public wants to be entertained, not sold. In other words, if it is to be simply The Eric Show, then don't be surprised if many of the seats are empty. This is why I declined on organizing the event at Mississippi Studios, and only offered to schedule some headliners to attend. You NEED these types to get people to show up. But it seems to me that Eric doesn't want to share the spotlight, and this is a critical mistake on his part. I declined on being the main organizer for two reasons. First, I had a bias since I believed Ken Christiansen to be the hijacker. Second, I live too far from Portland. When Eric was nominated to coordinate with Brunberg at M. Studios, I was in favor of this. However...after Eric got the job he stopped answering the emails from the other folks involved prior to him, and told people he 'owned' Cooper Con. He may even have rejected Brunberg's generous offer. No one knows. 

8) When we were running the Cooper events at the Auburn Avenue Theater every August, we had no headliners. However, we had speakers, occasional movies, and even Gayla Prociv handing out the free drinks and snacks. And there were approximately 10,000 people milling around outside the theater doors for the downtown Auburn Days Festival. We never got more than sixty people to attend. Why? We didn't have anybody famous showing up as the hook. You need a HOOK for these events...same thing other conventions do. They always have known speakers, or a famous person making an appearance, which is what gets people in the door. My apologies to the known Cooper Folk who spoke at last year's convention...but none of you qualify as headliners. Headliners are defined as people well-liked, and well-known to the general public, not just Cooperland. 

All of that being said, it is still possible the Con will be a success, but right now it looks like either a rerun of last year, or something Eric plans to toss together at the last minute. 

 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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On 7/3/2019 at 3:31 AM, mrshutter45 said:

 

why would they close the case because Kenny is dead. they spent a long time working with Marla Cooper. LD is dead. why would they bother with any suspect that was dead? they spent 4 decades looking for him. they want a conclusion just like anyone else. why would they work the Kenny angle alone. did they contact ANY of his family or friends in the past 5 years? instinct, assumptions only? they had Marla Cooper take a polygraph. 

 

 

Why would they close the case?  The FBI implemented a new unit that is designed to solve cold cases using DNA technology by combining CODIS (FBI criminal DNA database) with the private DNA databases, such as ancestry.com.   The FBI knew they were going to be implementing this new program and had to clean up their own closet first.

The FBI "lost" the cigarette butts.  They could have used them to do exactly what they are doing now to solve these decades old cold cases.  But, they had to make sure their biggest liability was taken care of, so they closed the DB Cooper case two years prior to implementing this new task force.  

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On 7/1/2019 at 11:18 PM, dudeman17 said:

 

I threw this question out there once, and none of you bit - Have any of you ever made a jump? 

As a smokejumper I made many jumps into the national forests in the NW.  There is no way I would have chosen to jump at night into the woods. In fact, when I was a SJ we got a call from an SF unit asking us to teach them to jump into the trees in the middle of the night.  We politely declined.  However, as a SEAL, I jumped into the Bearing Sea in the middle of the night in similar conditions the night Cooper jumped.  In fact winds were 22 knots (20 was the cutoff but our CO threw us out anyway).  After being drug for miles, I finally cut away my parachute (which was highly frowned upon).  I thought I would be ridiculed until I found out the rest of our platoon cut away as well.  We recovered 2 chutes out of 16.  So, yes, I have made jumps in difficult terrain and different altitudes (30,000 ft).  And you don't freeze to death when you are jumping from that altitude.  So, the idea he froze to death is ridiculous.  

His DZ (as I would have done if I planned this caper) would have been the Columbia River.  It is between 2.5 - 4 miles wide in the area where the plane crossed the Columbia.  This would have been a perfect DZ.  In fact, I have jumped into the Columbia many times when I was stationed at the 304th in Portland as a PJ.  

We can all agree that DB Cooper had military training.  He wasn't a thrill seeker, this was a planned military operation.

The signal for him to jump was when the pilot got on the intercom and said "are you still there".  He replied "yes".  In the military, we call that type of communication confirm and verify.  You send out a question and get a reply.  Cooper replied, letting the pilot know he got the message and was exiting the aircraft.  

Hopefully we can agree that the DZ is now the Columbia.  (we can disagree as to whether he was a frogman or another branch of SF...I like the frogman angle, but I may be prejudiced).  

President Nixon was meeting with Najeeb Halaby the day of the hijacking.  You might want to look him up and ask yourself; did the FBI ever question this guy?  He met with Nixon 3 hours prior to the hijacking?  

 

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On 7/6/2019 at 7:54 PM, haggarknew said:

Why did he want the flaps down?

Did he have the flaps down so the stairs could be lowered?  I am not sure of the configuration of the 727, but if he had them flying at a certain speed with a certain configuration, it was for a specific purpose.  It may seem too obvious, but this guy flew on these 727's during Vietnam.  He had experience with them and chose this specific aircraft.  It was not happenstance that he didn't hijack one of the Ford Tri-Motors, nor one of the McDonald Douglass planes (DC series).  

From what I understand, he had a problem lowering the stairwell until flaps were changed to 30 degrees.  Also, at the airspeed of 170 mph it was too fast for the Huey's they would have deployed and too slow for the 206 jets they scrambled to follow which have a minimum speed (stall speed) of about 300 mph.  

This was planned like a military operation.  

 

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On 7/6/2019 at 3:47 PM, FLYJACK said:

Everyone, including myself assumed Cooper wanted to jump ASAP.. this was supported by the idea that Cooper initially demanded rear stairs down on takeoff, makes sense.

 

I may be wrong, but I thought that after he took off, or as they were taking off, they had two different destination options, either SF or Reno to refuel.  

This didn't matter to Cooper because his DZ was the Columbia River.  That was the one thing he knew the plane was crossing on his trip to "Mexico City".  The Mexico City deal was a ruse to widen the search area as far as possible.  He didn't care if it was Reno or SF.  Either way he was going to be out of the plane.  And either route would have placed him on Vector 23.  

The pilot signaled him to jump by stating "are you still there", which he responded "yes".  

From my research, I think the time he said this was approximately 8:16.  That would have coincided with the plane crossing over Government Island in the Columbia River.  

If someone has any more specific information on the timeline and the transcripts, I would greatly appreciate clarity on this. 

And how did the Portland Air Traffic Control Tower lose track of flight 305 from Battleground to Salem?  Why wasn't a hijacked plane being tracked?  

Why was $240,000 in bills pre-staged in case someone got kidnapped?  All the bills were prepackaged and the serial numbers taken down prior to the plane being hijacked.  Isn't that a weird coincidence?

 

 

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1 hour ago, jumper34 said:

Why would they close the case?  The FBI implemented a new unit that is designed to solve cold cases using DNA technology by combining CODIS (FBI criminal DNA database) with the private DNA databases, such as ancestry.com.   The FBI knew they were going to be implementing this new program and had to clean up their own closet first.

The FBI "lost" the cigarette butts.  They could have used them to do exactly what they are doing now to solve these decades old cold cases.  But, they had to make sure their biggest liability was taken care of, so they closed the DB Cooper case two years prior to implementing this new task force.  

You could be right, but the FBI also announced they were sending all (or most) of the available case files and physical evidence to the Smithsonian. This would make it difficult for any new task force to continue investigating the case. It is hard to determine WHY the FBI even closed the case in the first place. Many other, even OLDER cases are still held open by the FBI. 

If you can believe Special Agent John Jarvis, the reason was that they had already determined who Cooper was prior to the closure. That particular issue has not 'gone away' either. We vetted that story more than any other story that came our way on the case. Enough so that if they ever get around to making that movie on Cooper, Jarvis' name and the scene between he, Troy Bentz, and Bentz' two friends is going to be included in the movie. I have already been assured of that by the producers, because they believe the vetting is solid enough to name Jarvis. Basically, they want to 'call out' Jarvis on this story and get to the truth. We will see...they are still deciding on a screenwriter but are getting close to finalizing one. More and more it looks as if the film will be timed for a release in 2021, the 50th anniversary of the hijacking. Since they keep sending the option checks each January and they don't bounce...and they still haven't started shooting yet...it is the only conclusion I have. 

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(edited)

Well, they did say people could still submit their stuff. I contacted them at a point in time AFTER the alleged closure and they said they forwarded my message to the assigned case agent. So apparently someone in the Seattle FBI (if not the DC branch) is still assigned (stuck with) examining the Cooper stuff. On a side note, I did an extensive search of the Smithsonian website (it actually oversees, or is associated WITH, a whole list of museums) for anything DB Cooper-related. It comes up a complete ZERO on anything, including news announcements saying they are receiving Cooper files, public displays, images, etc...a complete NOTHING. Hmm. 

Below: A few pictures for DZ member Haggerknew. B| Assorted images from different campouts around the PNW, whether Cooper-related or not. The picture of the TV/video player was my earliest effort to show media out in the wilderness. (We've upgraded since then.)

The picture of Ozette Island is actually taken via Google Maps, although I have some rather boring pictures of it from ground level. The GM image is better. 

BELOW:  Mt. Rainier from the north side. You can drive to this spot and camp. 

camping5.jpg

BELOW:  Olympic Mountains, WA State. Telephoto shot taken near Jefferson Lake, Olympics:

mountainpic3.jpg

BELOW:  Google image of Ozette Island. Six trips there since many years ago. It is no longer legal to go there, since it was named a Wildlife Refuge. Beachcombing on the ocean side of the island was excellent when you COULD visit. Many glass floats. Camped there once in the 90's for the whole summer, one trip back to Clallam Bay for supplies. Two deer lived on the island. 

OzetteIsland1.jpg

BELOW:  An early effort to have entertainment at night in the wilderness. This one was taken near Jefferson Lake in the Olympics. The Envizen unit, which I still have, will do DVD's, movies and TV shows from either flash or memory card, picks up over the air digital TV signals with the provided antenna, and plays regular DVD's. In the picture I am running an old Super Nintendo system through it. Weighs less than two pounds and came in a soft case with the accessories. Still works today, although we have upgraded to a 32 inch Samsung smart TV and a media projector with ten foot screen. Sometimes I still use it when I go camping solo. 

VideoInDaWoods.jpg

BELOW: A Google shot of Darland Mountain, facing west. If you could see farther north and south, you would be able to view the entire Cascade chain from Mt. Hood in Oregon, all the way to Mt. Baker in northern Washington, a distance of about 300 miles. (If you are there, you CAN.) Altitude at Darland is 7,000 feet, making it the second-highest spot you can drive to in WA state. Hart's Pass in the North Cascades is the highest, but there isn't much to see there. I visited Darland Mountain twice, the first time in August 2003 to photograph the closest approach to Mars in 80,000 years. And then I discovered my expensive film camera was not able to advance any film. I went to digital afterward and tossed out the film camera. From the summit of Darland, Mars looked to be the size of an average street light, and was colored yellow/orange. It was amazing...but no pictures for me. The second time I visited, it was just a solo campout. 

darlandmtn.jpg.40ea6b3fdcd1dac6a07b6330224742fd.jpg

BELOW:  A picture of Mars as it appeared from Earth on August 27, 2003. Public domain image. This one was taken from perhaps 3,000 feet ASL. At Darland Mountain it appeared a bit brighter and larger, due to more altitude. And there I sat without a working camera. >:(

MarsClose2003.jpg.c05e7fffe363648d6d8526f379eeaeb2.jpg

From the Jefferson Lake campout in the Olympics. This is the place the Murder of Earl Cossey video for YouTube was shot. 

ViewFromAbove.jpg

Below: Different shots from the infamous 'Eclipse Campout' to Magone Lake, Oregon in August 2017. We had some folks who drove in for that all the way from friggin' San Jose, CA. Unreal...and I thought I had a long drive home after this one. The first picture is the sunset after the eclipse. The other three are shots of the sun (two before the eclipse, and last one during the eclipse) using different modes on the camera, or filters. 

SunsetAfterTheEclipse.jpg

BELOW:  Canon EOS using 155mm telephoto and sun filter. Note the many sunspots.

SunThruVideoCamera.jpg

BELOW: Still shot using sun filter over a Sony HDR SR11 video camera. Digital zoom.

SunThruVideoCameraNewFilter.jpg

BELOW: Shot of the actual eclipse. Canon EOS, no filter. Note blue ring around the sun. Shot taken from a high spot, and during this time you could see the red light from sunset going 360 degrees all around the horizon for several minutes. Many people, including me, did not realize this happens during a total eclipse. 

Total1.jpg

Edited by RobertMBlevins
Some corrections on where certain shots were taken, and when they were.

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