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DB Cooper

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8 hours ago, georger said:

It was an FAA Psychiatrist. Cooper didn't blow up the plane or force crew members to bail with him - did he ? !  The psychiatrist was reading a script.

The record of the Cooper Hijacking is like a high school play with every cast member reading their scripts. Various cast members are still reading their scripts to this very day, with the same results. Ckret became a cast member in 2008. The Ingrams became cast members in 1980. Ulis is one of newest cast members. . . . . . the script hasnt changed in decades. As DB Cooper Turns. 

This is how it appears to a social psychologist.

One interplay of stories and scripts occurs between the Ingrams and the FBI just after the Ingrams appear with FBI agents at the Portland news conference, 1980. After the event a member of the Ingram family calls the FBI and tells them a conflicting version of the money find story the Ingrams have given. She places the money find location closer to the river, 20 ft closer, and with a different series of events. It may be this is the same area where Schreuder etal found their fragment field. But it does not appear that any 302s released to date have documented this story or embellished the full facts.

Lots of scripts being read and played out in the DB Cooper case. That is a fact.  

You may be 100% correct!!!! It may be a total Illuminati Play.... Those in the know screwing with us idiots out here on the outside. When I say Illuminati I mean it in the same sense that my father and Ben Franklin used it. Did anyone get the FFA Psychiatrists name?

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9 hours ago, Slim King said:

You may be 100% correct!!!! It may be a total Illuminati Play.... Those in the know screwing with us idiots out here on the outside. When I say Illuminati I mean it in the same sense that my father and Ben Franklin used it. Did anyone get the FFA Psychiatrists name?

This is all there is...

153719179_ScreenShot2022-08-21at6_38_31AM.png.774846b5f0967a24c77bd35ab9569950.png

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NORJAK was NOT on autopilot.. weigh the evidence. The evidence for auto pilot is very weak, the evidence for manual flying is very strong.

Remember, the plane was flying dirty, it is unlikely they would fly it in autopilot that dirty in a serious HJ situation.

Here is the evidence for auto pilot..

FBI 302's are NOT conclusions they are investigative notes,, here the claim is the plane was on auto pilot for MOST of Washington.. somebody claimed it was autopilot.

1186255741_ScreenShot2022-08-20at5_33_51PM.png.025b31702dc88c9e4bb776a293171ab7.png

This is a summary notation, again claiming the plane was on auto pilot.. it may have come from the above claim.

Screen-Shot-2022-08-20-at-5_35.23-PM1.jpg.4d3b9e99d8ad0c0b3b6ed1d48b296eb6.jpg

 

Now, the argument against auto pilot.. 

Rataczak said he was hand flying the plane and he felt the stairs go down. You have to completely discredit Ratazcak or have irrefutable evidence to contradict his claim.

 

at 49.25

Bill Rataczak: “I did fly it and I found out that Jack Waddell was absolutely right when the stairs came down that flight that airplane lowered about 3 to 5 degrees and I was hand flying it at that time you don’t want to see my flight path because it looked like connect the dots, but we weren’t concerned about that because we knew we were in a safe altitude and air traffic control was watching"

 

In the video/quote above Rataczak confirms the he felt the hijacker on the stairs by a 3 to 5 degree pitch. Waddell stated it would not be felt on auto pilot but it would be felt if manually flying the plane. Ratazcak did feel it, it was being manually flown.

676100751_ScreenShot2022-08-20at5_40_28PM.png.84531367fb2721f645c62dd9cf6b56e0.png

 

Here, Rataczak levelled off the plane and reduced speed.. that indicates manual flying the plane. 

1741996107_ScreenShot2022-08-20at6_11_09PM.png.fa86a4699bcbb41f998ca6b3a043e8ab.png

 

 

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2 hours ago, Slim King said:

Is there a way to tell the time this statement was made?????

Not an exact time noted, but the sequence of events was noted by a range between 6:59 to 7:41..

It was likely 7:00 to 7:05,, during the fuelling at Seattle..

 

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2 hours ago, Slim King said:

Flyjack

I watched that video a few nights ago. I'm comparing what he said against the newest book I have D,B, Cooper and Flight 305. Houston we have a problem.....

What problem, there are a few things in that book that I don't agree with. Book is mostly a good resource though.

This case is riddled with conflicting information and it can be hard to sort out.

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(edited)
52 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

What problem, there are a few things in that book that I don't agree with. Book is mostly a good resource though.

This case is riddled with conflicting information and it can be hard to sort out.

This is why Im always interested in developing NEW information about the case. Time is fleeting, people leaving/dying, etc etc. The flight path is settled except for a few diehards. The money facts are a vast unknown! Cooper's identity unknown. The FBI totally uninterested except for FOIA pages. And many good people have left or died or lost interest. Orange, Smoking 99, Hominid, and a few others that I miss. Edwards - wish he was here to debate ? FJ has become indispensable; credits to him big time! Someone may open some new doors in this case because new doors are definitely there waiting to be opened by somebody! People aren't squabbling like they were ...  a little peace and security goes a long way in this case. The whole thing is a crap shoot nobody can predict.

Edited by georger

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(edited)

Cooper definitely planned a night jump, Sunset at 4:32 PM Portland.. 

406115796_ScreenShot2022-08-21at2_25_47PM.png.55af1310c3262a9097b90dd2c5b6f6cb.png

 

Notice wind was light and SE at 7:00 PM (Portland Airport) but it was shifting around 8:00 PM to S and SW.. No precise wind data at 8:12..  Initially the "FBI" assumed a SW wind for Cooper's jump but it could have been between SE and SW.. they did revise the search area assuming a more Southerly wind..

 

Overcast, showers of light rain.

1313550710_ScreenShot2022-08-21at2_29_22PM.png.122ac92e9f238b3b23752fd0befa59d7.png

Edited by FLYJACK
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(edited)

There is a BLACK HOLE in this case. That Black Hole is the flight path. Answer these questions ... Why is there no evidence being presented from the Two Black Boxes? (They are used in virtually EVERY crime or mysterious situation)There is no recorded Radar data ... Only human testimony. Why was it destroyed? The jets scrambled to watch flight 305 NEVER actually saw the plane. Why were they even called escorts? The crew never said they were on Victor 23 did they??? (Although they would have been for the first two calls) My hard evidence is that I actually have lived in those mountains to the east of Seattle .. Snoqualmie pass is only 3015 feet.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snoqualmie_Pass I believe Stevens pass is only 4000 feet. The normal flight path to Reno is over these passes. Even a plane at 10,000 feet could easily get through. BTW .. There are reports that the flight crew was told they could go to 14,000 feet .. Why not go the normal route instead of flying over the most populated area of Washington including it's Capital with a plane the experts said the hijacker was going to blow up?????

Edited by Slim King

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24 minutes ago, Slim King said:

There is a BLACK HOLE in this case. That Black Hole is the flight path. Answer these questions ... Why is there no evidence being presented from the Two Black Boxes? (They are used in virtually EVERY crime or mysterious situation)There is no recorded Radar data ... Only human testimony. Why was it destroyed? The jets scrambled to watch flight 305 NEVER actually saw the plane. Why were they even called escorts? The crew never said they were on Victor 23 did they??? (Although they would have been for the first two calls) My hard evidence is that I actually have lived in those mountains to the east of Seattle .. Snoqualmie pass is only 3015 feet.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snoqualmie_Pass I believe Stevens pass is only 4000 feet. The normal flight path to Reno is over these passes. Even a plane at 10,000 feet could easily get through. BTW .. There are reports that the flight crew was told they could go to 14,000 feet .. Why not go the normal route instead of flying over the most populated area of Washington including it's Capital with a plane the experts said the hijacker was going to blow up?????

Flight path is solid.. it was plotted by the Air Force. It has a 1 mile error. The plane was being tracked, including SAGE.

727 had a simple Flight Data Recorder and it was examined, they found a "little bob" at about 8:09.

The "escorts" didn't have visual but had it on radar.

The crew had established they were going to take V23 and Portland radar confirmed they were a few miles E of the center at one point.. it was 10 miles wide.

Rataczak confirmed the flight path map by inference, he joked about the jerky movement.

Cooper had agreed to a flight plan to go down v23 to Portland to red bluff and over to Reno..

 

 

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2 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

Flight path is solid.. it was plotted by the Air Force. It has a 1 mile error. The plane was being tracked, including SAGE.

727 had a simple Flight Data Recorder and it was examined, they found a "little bob" at about 8:09.

The "escorts" didn't have visual but had it on radar.

The crew had established they were going to take V23 and Portland radar confirmed they were a few miles E of the center at one point.. it was 10 miles wide.

Rataczak confirmed the flight path map by inference, he joked about the jerky movement.

Cooper had agreed to a flight plan to go down v23 to Portland to red bluff and over to Reno..

 

 

Honestly ... These are all statements made by people. No real data. If the FBI said to each of these individuals.. "We need to keep the flight path a secret for (Some reason)" I'm pretty sure they would all comply. And that is why they don't exactly "Jive" with one another. Eric has found a bunch of problems with their testimonies. Although I don't agree with Eric's basic ideas I know he is correct on this.

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(edited)
7 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Not an exact time noted, but the sequence of events was noted by a range between 6:59 to 7:41..

It was likely 7:00 to 7:05,, during the fuelling at Seattle..

 

If you were told he was going to blow the jet up why would you fly over the most populated section of Washington and Oregon? 

I may not always be right ... I don't have to be.. I've been married 4 times .. I have no problem admitting I was wrong. So I'm not afraid to ask the tough questions.

Edited by Slim King

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(edited)
19 minutes ago, Slim King said:

If you were told he was going to blow the jet up why would you fly over the most populated section of Washington and Oregon?

SKYJACK offers a rather morbid solution for this question, which is that the two trailing F-106s could have been ordered to take out the plane if it lost control near a populated area...

Edited by Coopericane

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4 minutes ago, Slim King said:

That's super interesting......

Bruce Smith discovered that during an interview with somebody close to the situation ... was an interesting interview. But think about it. Plane with bomb over a populated civilian area ?  I wouldnt hesitate to press the button if call on ...

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14 minutes ago, Slim King said:

Honestly ... These are all statements made by people. No real data. If the FBI said to each of these individuals.. "We need to keep the flight path a secret for (Some reason)" I'm pretty sure they would all comply. And that is why they don't exactly "Jive" with one another. Eric has found a bunch of problems with their testimonies. Although I don't agree with Eric's basic ideas I know he is correct on this.

The map is data, it is the points plotted by the Air Force using GEOREF..

Why doesn't it jive,,,  you can always find some doubt in everything but you need actual evidence to dispute it..

Eric has no actual evidence, he relies on conjecture, exxagerates it to claim it as fact, then builds more conjecture on that pseudo-fact. That is his history and MO... Eric's claims always need to be triple checked.

It all jives to me, if there is actual evidence that it doesn't beyond weak conjecture I haven't seen it.

Claiming it was all a coverup doesn't cut it. You had too many people, too many organizations and too many resources involved, North West Airlines, the Air Force radar, SAGE, the Air Force pilots, NORJAK pilots, ATC, the FBI... then they did the massive search based on the flight path.

Flight path is solid, not sure exactly why they chose that route but they did and were discussing several other refuelling spots in California prior. So, down to California and dog leg over.

The FBI files say Cooper agreed to that route... maybe it is just that simple.

 

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39 minutes ago, Slim King said:

Honestly ... These are all statements made by people. No real data. If the FBI said to each of these individuals.. "We need to keep the flight path a secret for (Some reason)" I'm pretty sure they would all comply. And that is why they don't exactly "Jive" with one another. Eric has found a bunch of problems with their testimonies. Although I don't agree with Eric's basic ideas I know he is correct on this.

FAA and Company rules .... rule in any Incident. There may even be a lifetime restriction, you sign on being hired. Its not unlike noncompete and nondisclosure rules today. 5 year contract restrictions are common. National Security restrictions is whole other level!  

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39 minutes ago, Slim King said:

If you were told he was going to blow the jet up why would you fly over the most populated section of Washington and Oregon? 

I may not always be right ... I don't have to be.. I've been married 4 times .. I have no problem admitting I was wrong. So I'm not afraid to ask the tough questions.

The coverup/conspiracy about the flight path comes up now and then but there is just no evidence or valid argument for it. 

And I think the world is full of manipulations coverups and conspiracies...

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1 hour ago, Slim King said:

Honestly ... These are all statements made by people. No real data. If the FBI said to each of these individuals.. "We need to keep the flight path a secret for (Some reason)" I'm pretty sure they would all comply. And that is why they don't exactly "Jive" with one another. Eric has found a bunch of problems with their testimonies. Although I don't agree with Eric's basic ideas I know he is correct on this.

The so-called FBI flight path is nonsense.  Dr. Robert Edward's has recently posted on his blog that he was told by an FBI agent that they did not have anything to do with producing that flight path.  It was reportedly given to the FBI by USAF personnel without any supporting data or explanation of the methodology that produced it.

There are 19 redactions from the radio transcripts of the Seattle Air Traffic Control Center and the airliner's communications.  There are also a large number of redactions from the teletype transcripts of the communications between the airliner and the ARINC radio system.

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7 minutes ago, Robert99 said:

The so-called FBI flight path is nonsense.  Dr. Robert Edward's has recently posted on his blog that he was told by an FBI agent that they did not have anything to do with producing that flight path.  It was reportedly given to the FBI by USAF personnel without any supporting data or explanation of the methodology that produced it.

There are 19 redactions from the radio transcripts of the Seattle Air Traffic Control Center and the airliner's communications.  There are also a large number of redactions from the teletype transcripts of the communications between the airliner and the ARINC radio system.

Now THIS is what I'm talking about ... let's ask the tough questions rather than say it's settled already. I've read that NO ONE takes credit for making this flight path. Is that true? Where can I find Robert Edwards blog? I have the book.

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(edited)
1 hour ago, Slim King said:

That's super interesting......

I've been researching the F 106's since this post. Is there any proof that they can't go at 200? Maybe a pilot on here would know? I see they were used for lightning tests at 350 .... Plus ... Am I the only parachutist here that has jumped in what you claim is the jump zone? I jumped in Toledo in 1979.

Edited by Slim King

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6 hours ago, Slim King said:

Now THIS is what I'm talking about ... let's ask the tough questions rather than say it's settled already. I've read that NO ONE takes credit for making this flight path. Is that true? Where can I find Robert Edwards blog? I have the book.

No its not true. Its utter subversive nonsense and R99 knows it is.

Who and what Air Force units constructed the flight path and gave it to the FBI has been published here at DZ and at Shutter's site several times over the years. Dr Edwards needs to start reading the thread! That information came directly from Air Force TAG team members after they retired and finally began being interviewed by Hominid and others. This is Old News!  If R99 doesnt accept that, that is his problem. BTW: R99 does not speak for the Washington State Historical Society he keeps citing ! 

Edited by georger

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(edited)
9 hours ago, Slim King said:

Now THIS is what I'm talking about ... let's ask the tough questions rather than say it's settled already. I've read that NO ONE takes credit for making this flight path. Is that true? Where can I find Robert Edwards blog? I have the book.

Robert99 had been pushing the western flightpath for at least a decade, it is a slight deviation from the "FBI" flight path (10-12 miles west in WA). He has provided zero evidence in 10 years.. Eric picked up the Western flightpath theory and made factual claims that were false.. 

Everybody knows the "FBI" didn't create the flight path, this is hyperbole. We call it the "FBI" flightpath because it was accepted and used by the FBI. It was plotted by the Air Force.. it was also sent to NorthWest Airlines to help compute the LZ.

Robert99 is using redactions in the communications to claim they are hiding the Western Flightpath.. the redactions were communications unrelated to NORJAK.

The tough questions have been asked and completely rejected because there is no evidence to support an alternate flightpath, just speculation and conjecture.

It has been over 50 years and there is no evidence for an alternate flightpath.

Robert99 doesn't have it and Eric doesn't have it.

Edited by FLYJACK

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