TheSecret 0 #1 October 10, 2008 I was having a conversation with a fellow low number jumper about fear of using your reserve. I was wondering how many people end up hurting or killing themselves because they choose to ride in a malfunctioning main rather then cutaway. Specifically after some sort of low speed malfunction where you canopy has a controllability problem but is still flying relatively stable. Has anyone dealt with this and made the wrong/right choice?Life is good Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
towerrat 0 #2 October 10, 2008 I have 19 reserve rides over 4,000 jumps. I have a hard deck and I stick to it, both tandem and sport jumps. If I feel I can't safely land my main by my hard deck, I use my emergency procedures. It's worked so far. If you ride in a malfunctioning main, you are in most cases very foolish. When in doubt, whip it outPlay stupid games, win stupid prizes! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peregrinerose 0 #3 October 10, 2008 I'm scared of my one reserve (has no jumps on it), but not my other one (with one jump on it... mine) in the same way that I was nervous putting a first jump on a new main. Not debilitating fear, nothing that would make me even remotely hesitate to cut away should I need to (after all, already did just that once!), and I've inspected the living shit out of both reserves so know from an intellectual stance that they are fine. It's just that unknown that makes me nervous. The mal I chopped from was a very low speed... line over just to the left of center on a Spectre. It opened with line twists, which I kicked out of before noticing the line over. The canopy flew in a straight line, no spin or anything, but I also knew it wasn't safe to land it. It was my first chop, first save as a rigger, and the first ride on that particular reserve. I knew with 100% certainty my main wasn't landable and had to go away, so away it went. I didn't second guess anything til I'd already pulled handles, followed my free bag visually, and had a perfect landing at the DZ. Obviously it was the right choice Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #4 October 10, 2008 I remember back to my first chop. It was on jump 1398 and it was a tandem that had tension knots so bad that we were spinning wildly and violently on our backs (which is intense on a tandem with all of that mass moving). As I locked my legs around the tandem passengers to pull them back into an arch and yelled something along the lines of "F**king ARCH," I remember the .000001th of a second before I pulled that cutaway. My stomach dropped and I said a little and quick prayer to myself and peel punch, peel punch. The prayer only half worked. The reserve opened violently and the left control line had come loose of the tacking, wrapping under the L-bracket and locking in place against the slider. I had never heard of that and it *looked* like the control line had been misrouted. As I tried to fix the problem while cursing at my rigger so badly a sailor would blush and trying to figure out how to teach a tandem student to PLF before we had to go in, I dropped my reserve handle. I then quickly put the cutaway handle down my t-shirt, slowed my breathing and made myself slow everything down. That's when I traced the control line and realized that everything was OK and was able to fix the caught control line. Everything else was uneventful after that, except that the tandem "student" didn't believe me when I told him we had a cutaway, until his dozen or so family and friends on the ground started clapping when we landed right in front of them (stood it up too). That taught me one thing. It doesn't matter if the reserve works or not. It either will or it won't and there's not a damned thing you can do about it. All you can do is keep fighting until your goggles fill with blood! The worst part about the above story is that I dropped the reserve handle. That rig was down for a week since it was our last handle. We also called RWS (well, now its the company formally known as RWS) and they said something to the effect of "yeah, it happens." It was news to me. Six rides (4 tandem and 2 sport) really took the "oh crap" out of chopping and just made it really damned annoying to have to get a repack.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #5 October 10, 2008 Every time I cutaway, I'm thinking "Well, I hope this one works better than the last one." That thought doesn't seem to go through my head on a total, though, just "Holy $h!+." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gearless_chris 1 #6 October 10, 2008 I have no reservations about using either of my reserves. I have 4 rides on my Raven 1 and none yet on my R-max. I wouldn't try landing a real malfunction but broken steering lines aren't a big deal."If it wasn't easy stupid people couldn't do it", Duane. My momma said I could be anything I wanted when I grew up, so I became an a$$hole. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billeisele 122 #7 October 10, 2008 "I'm scared of my one reserve (has no jumps on it), but not my other one (with one jump on it... mine) in the same way that I was nervous putting a first jump on a new main." We used to jump our reserves as a main - one time - just to "test" it, done from the C-182. Would pack it as a main then jump it similar to a static line. This turned into a great idea when we saw one that was manufactured incorrectly and had the wrong line groups (I think it was 2 sets of B lines rather than A & B). Maybe we should go back to that.Give one city to the thugs so they can all live together. I vote for Chicago where they have strict gun laws. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 561 #8 October 10, 2008 The reserve opened violently and the left control line had come loose of the tacking, wrapping under the L-bracket and locking in place against the slider. .... We also called RWS (well, now its the company formally known as RWS) and they said something to the effect of "yeah, it happens." ....................................................................... That used to happen all the time when we had (military-surplus) L-bar connector links on tandem mains. We frequently snagged lower control lines on the fat ends of L-bar links. Mind you, that was back when F-111 was a fashionable fabric for tandem mains. The short term solution was to re-route L-bar links so that the smooth elbow was outboard and less likely to snag lines. The mid-term solution was to hand-tack (red seal thread) reserve steering lines to the center of the link. RWS (now UPT) long term solution was to allow riggers the option of installing Maillon Rapide links on tandem reserves. Strong Enterprises solved the problem with an extra piece of (Type 1) tape near the top of the reserve risers, but I have often wondered why tandem manufacturers do not sew an extra steering guide ring to the top of reserve risers???? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 622 #9 October 10, 2008 What "Triple R" said. Your reserve is your best friend EVER. That bitch will (and has) saved my life. I like her. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SansSuit 1 #10 October 10, 2008 QuoteI was having a conversation with a fellow low number jumper about fear of using your reserve. I was wondering how many people end up hurting or killing themselves because they choose to ride in a malfunctioning main rather then cutaway. Specifically after some sort of low speed malfunction where you canopy has a controllability problem but is still flying relatively stable. Has anyone dealt with this and made the wrong/right choice? My first rig had a Cruiselite main and a Swift reserve. One nasty opening broke the center A-B lines just below the cascades. In my (erroneous) analysis of the situation, I decided that the canopy with the broken lines would be a better choice than the square, 5-cell, deployment brake line trailing, ancient, reserve. WRONG. The resulting landing collapsed the canopy when I flared causing a compression fracture of the L4. I didn't find that out until years later, but that is another story. Peace, -Jeff.Peace, -Dawson. http://www.SansSuit.com The Society for the Advancement of Naked Skydiving Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brucet7 0 #11 October 10, 2008 I am a low number jumper with no reserve rides. I am not really scared of my reserve, though I think I will at least learn what color it is at the next repack. I am anxious about getting so nervous that I won't remember what to do or question whether the problem is really bad enough to cut away. I have had a couple of nightmares about it.POPS #10623; SOS #1672 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,435 #12 October 10, 2008 Why would I be scared of my reserve? It's a boring 143 square foot square 7 cell. The few times I've had to use it I've thought "damn, that's one slow boring ass canopy." (Which is the way I like it.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
d123 1 #13 October 10, 2008 No. At this point I'm more afraid of what's in between pull main and do reserve because it might prevent me from having a good reserve, of doing a 2way into 2000 ft (pulling low with no separation), of having free-fly clowns jumping first, of the guy who counts 10 sec in 4. ... Next season its going to be something else...Lock, Dock and Two Smoking Barrelrolls! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tdog 0 #14 October 10, 2008 My perspective has changed once I became a rigger. Last time I kicked out of some nasty diving line twists, my brain thought: "I really don't want to pack the reserve today, hick harder dude!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #15 October 10, 2008 Quote My perspective has changed once I became a rigger. Last time I kicked out of some nasty diving line twists, my brain thought: "I really don't want to pack the reserve today, hick harder dude!" I saw my rigger land (...ahem...) a Lightning with a broken A-line once, because he didn't want to pack the reserve either... Bad idea ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GLIDEANGLE 1 #16 October 10, 2008 I trust my reserve MORE than my main: - Reserve got a detailed inspection before being packed. - Most riggers have zero-tolerance for wear/flaws in the reserve system. - Reserve is designed and packed for reliability rather than performance (see billvon's comment above about his boring reserve). I suggest that you see if your rigger will let you watch your reserve being inspected and packed. Fully understanding your reserve will likely increase your confidence. Watching a full inspection and packing that big reserve into that tiny freebag will help you understand why reserve re-packs cost so much.The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fastphil 0 #17 October 10, 2008 Seems like a dangerous apprehension to harbor; afterall, it's kinda like the spare tire for your car... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skwrl 56 #18 October 10, 2008 Afraid of it? I love my reserve so much that I whip it out as often as I can. (3 cutaways in ~350 jumps) Seriously, though - get over your fear. I don't want to say "it's irrational", because if you've never jumped it before, yes, I could see how you might wonder "what if someone secretly replaced it with an anvil?". But remember - it was packed by an FAA certified rigger who really doesn't want you to die (at least as a result of his or her work). I propose that you should think of your reserve as your bestest childhood friend ever whom you can't wait so see, so that when your main is a mess you're not going to hestitate for a moment.Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 200 #19 October 10, 2008 I think until you've ridden it once you'll be aprehensive. Please don't let that thought into your mind when you're riding that spinner through the hard deck. On a related note: Anyone have any data on how many uneventful reserve rides there are every year?Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #20 October 10, 2008 I wouldn't say I'm scared of it, but I don't like the idea of using one of my reserves. It's in my backup rig, which I rarely use... and I don't do cutaways anyway. It's a microraven 120. Pretty bad reputation. I was given bad advice by an insane rigger when I bought the rig when I had about 40 jumps. I'm not so worried about it that I won't jump the rig, but I don't look forward to flying it ever. I just know I'll need to do some pratice flares. My main rig has a PDr 143. Done a few jumps on a demo of that and I love it. I'd love to get an optimum 143 (which flies even better!) in my other rig, but I hate to spend any money on that thing. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gjhdiver 0 #21 October 10, 2008 Just remember, the reserve doesn't know it's a reserve. It just thinks it's a main that you've been ignoring lately. If you think you might need it, you probably do. Just use it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimjumper 25 #22 October 10, 2008 The last time I repacked it, it didn't bite me. It's a pretty freindly reserve as long as you don't yank it's tail! I've used it and it lands about like you would expect from a 7 cell F-111 canopy. That means a single stage flare after a straight in approach. After a 1000 F-111 landings it was just the same as landing my old Cruiselite. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr_music11 0 #23 October 10, 2008 Gear fear can be a paralizing thought process.. and all at the wrong time! NO rigger wants their reserve pack job to be the last ride that a person takes. I trust my local rigger to make sure that everhthing is "A OK" and that in the hopefully unlikley even that I do have to use the reserve, all will work just fine. Know your gear, visually inspect/check it before jumping. Ask for advice for any unusual or suspect situations that may arise. Minimize risk, maximize the fun!If flying is piloting a plane.. then swimming is driving a boat. I know why birds sing.. I skydive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
buff 0 #24 October 10, 2008 I've never ridden my reserve but I trust it will get the job done when called upon and I have no fear about making that decision. My rig has a PD160R which I have pulled for I&R and gone over with my rigger who is very particular about his work. He also packs pilot rigs for all of the aircraft manufacturers and it was his save last month on that C126 test flight. So I trust my gear and my rigger. Since I normally jump a Sabre, I have put a bunch of jumps on a friends Tri160 so I have a feel for flying a 7 cell of the same size as my reserve. Best I can do without actually flying my reserve.It's called the Hillbilly Hop N Pop dude. If you're gonna be stupid, you better be tough. That's fucked up. Watermelons do not grow on trees! ~Skymama Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grannyinthesky 0 #25 October 10, 2008 I love my pretty blue reserve. It gave me such a nice ride down after my main decided to imitate a carnival ride."safety first... and What the hell..... safety second, Too!!! " ~~jmy POPS #10490 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites