Donald Trump Versus Hillary Clinton

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

yoink

***
OK - I'll recant and edit . . . I HOPE that is part of his plan.

I've said for a long time that if a presidential candidate ran promising serious election reform that I'd vote for them, regardless of their other issues... Abolishing the Electoral College and instigating an alternative voting system will be the best thing for politics that's happened that I can remember.

If Trump REALLY did this? Man, I'd throw up a little in my mouth on the day but I'd almost have to vote for him, then keep my fingers crossed for the next 4 years that he didn't destroy the world.
But first, I'd have to believe that he'd actually follow through with ANYTHING he says, and that's a bit of an issue.

The problem with real election reform is that the people it would negatively affect the most are the people who would implement it.

Same with term limits.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[turtlespeed 212]

wolfriverjoe

******
OK - I'll recant and edit . . . I HOPE that is part of his plan.

I've said for a long time that if a presidential candidate ran promising serious election reform that I'd vote for them, regardless of their other issues... Abolishing the Electoral College and instigating an alternative voting system will be the best thing for politics that's happened that I can remember.

If Trump REALLY did this? Man, I'd throw up a little in my mouth on the day but I'd almost have to vote for him, then keep my fingers crossed for the next 4 years that he didn't destroy the world.
But first, I'd have to believe that he'd actually follow through with ANYTHING he says, and that's a bit of an issue.

The problem with real election reform is that the people it would negatively affect the most are the people who would implement it.

Same with term limits.

A lot like a guy receiving free housing and welfare lobbying to reduce benefits.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[quade 3]

wolfriverjoe

The problem with real election reform is that the people it would negatively affect the most are the people who would implement it.

And even more importantly, would require an Amendment to the Constitution that elections be run on the Federal rather than state level. I don't see that ever happening. The smaller, early election, states thrive on the influx of election money as well as love the attention. They'd fight it pretty hard for that if no other reason.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[normiss 622]

Every year the emotional investment made by citizens is just confusing to me.
Screaming it's a rigged system while not understand the system is just a lack of understanding.
Wait till they get the electoral college lesson next.


I gotta find some of the "Re-elect Gore in '04" bumper stickers.

[Coreeece 2]

turtlespeed

***Seems he's threatened to remove Paul Ryan as party chair at the convention for saying that he (Ryan) wouldn't back Trump. Don't play hardball with a whack job. He's also flip flopped on minimum wage.

Or maybe Trump has really entered the contest mainly to kill the Republican Party. His strike against the two-party system. If he comes out and says so, I'll vote for him

Wendy P.

I think that is part of his plan.

Given that he makes his plan up as he goes, you're probably right.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[gowlerk 1,913]

http://time.com/4322567/donald-trump-tax-plan-rich/?xid=homepage


This is the beginning of Trump's strategy to win the White House. Now that he has managed to secure the delegate votes needed for the nomination, his plans will emerge. He will hold back some till after the convention, because there is still a danger of untrue electors casting ballots against him if a viable alternative emerges.

Trump is not a true Republican, and in many ways not a true conservative either. He will take the traditional tack to the center in the general to new highs. He is not beholden at all to the party platform, and he will propose common sense non- ideological reforms that will make sense to many people who are tired of both parties. It is greatly possible that he will succeed against Hillary, who has very high negatives, and is a polarizing figure.

He can easily assume the centrist positions that have the greatest appeal, and back off a little from "The Great Wall of America" talk. Everyone already knows the wall stuff was hyperbole, and they will accept reality when the Donald slowly lets them down.

If he can manage to offend a little less, and be the natural entertainer that he is, and Hillary fails to capture some of the Sanders excited youth vote, Trump could possibly do far better than many are expecting. He could even have coattails for some Rs.

God Bless America.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[normiss 622]

"First of all, you never have to default because you print the money, I hate to tell you, OK? I understand debt better than probably anybody. I know how to deal with debt very well. I love debt -- but you know, debt is tricky and it's dangerous, and you have to be careful and you have to know what you're doing," Trump said.

Clearly a financial genius.

[kallend 1,623]

quade

Trump has only stood and done this in front of enough people to to get 30% of the Republican Party to back him. It was enough to carry elections in states early on and weed out the other candidates until all that was left was the choice of Trump or "lucifer."

Reminiscent of:

If Hitler invaded hell I would make at least a favourable reference to the devil in the House of Commons. Winston Churchill

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[gowlerk 1,913]

Quote

Clearly a financial genius.

You don't have to be a financial genius. You just have to get people to vote for you. Entertainers are good at that. I've been underestimating America's willingness to vote for this guy long enough. No more. His support just keeps growing. With public feelings about politicians being at an all time low many people will feel they have nothing to lose.

If he can get his message under just a little more control, he can win. It's easy to see how given the public feelings about his opponent. Don't get me wrong, I think Clinton would make a great president. But she could easily lose. It's not like support for her is going up, it's going down. Support for Trump on the other hand is increasing. Momentum is hard to stop. At least the election is still a long way in the future in political terms.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[normiss 622]

"Genius" was tongue in cheek at best.
The results of simply printing paper money to pay off the debt is laughable.

We're still only in the popular vote, that doesn't put people in the oval office.

I'm still holding out hope for the electoral college. This looks to me like the reason for their being.

[turtlespeed 212]

normiss

"Genius" was tongue in cheek at best.
The results of simply printing paper money to pay off the debt is laughable.

We're still only in the popular vote, that doesn't put people in the oval office.

I'm still holding out hope for the electoral college. This looks to me like the reason for their being.

I'm hoping for a large percentage difference between the electoral college and the popular vote - not 1 or 2% although that would be significant. I want to see 15% difference.

I want change. The change we were promised with the Obama admin.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

Hi turtle,

Quote

I want change. The change we were promised with the Obama admin.

You got change. You just do like what you got.

Jerry Baumchen

[normiss 622]

I could swear you were one of the ones ignoring the data of how good things have become.
Unemployment, jobs, home buying, big ticket items...what was that espression years ago?...It's the economy....

[wmw999 2,122]

I voted for Perot in 1992 in large part because I thought he'd break up some of the entrenched political bullshit; I figured 4 years of a reasonably rational and intelligent guy who's politically clueless and abrasive might be good for us. Especially because, not being part of the political establishment, he wouldn't react in predictable ways to congress.

However, he showed he was a political whack job by making charts for debates. He wasnt an overall willing to say whatever it took to get elected, so that we four take a chance on what might happen.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[jcd11235 0]

wmw999

Or maybe Trump has really entered the contest mainly to kill the Republican Party. His strike against the two-party system. If he comes out and says so, I'll vote for him.

It will be interesting to see what changes Trump makes after the Republican convention. Once he has the nomination, I'll not be surprised if he becomes the more liberal of the two candidates, attacking Clinton from the left.

He clearly has a plan. Less clear is what that plan is.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[quade 3]

jcd11235

He clearly has a plan. Less clear is what that plan is.

I think you are assuming quite a bit. In particular your use of the word "clearly" in your first sentence.

What evidence is there which makes it clear?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[jcd11235 0]

quade

***He clearly has a plan. Less clear is what that plan is.

I think you are assuming quite a bit. In particular your use of the word "clearly" in your first sentence.

What evidence is there which makes it clear?

He was given zero chance by most pundits when he threw his hat in the ring, and he's now the last man standing. He has played the media like a violin to receive free airtime. He defeated Jeb Bush, who was a fairly well like governor in an important swing state, to say nothing of his political pedigree. He defeated Kasich and Rubio, two other sane candidates. He also defeated Cruz who, while perhaps accurately described as Lucifer by John Boehner, was a Tea Party darling. Everything Trump has done thus far, he has done on his terms, making everyone else play by his rules.

Trump has managed to blatantly lie without repercussion, even when called out on it. Incredibly, in doing so, he has retained support from prospective voters who are, as one described himself to me recently, "tired of lying politicians." He escapes criticism for flip-flopping into nearly all possible positions of an issue, depending on the group to which he happens to be pandering in that moment.



I'm reminded of The Russian And Molokov, from Anderson, Ulvaeus, & Rice's Chess:

MOLOKOV: The man is utterly mad. You're playing a lunatic.

THE RUSSIAN: That's the problem. He's a brilliant lunatic, and you can't tell which way he'll jump. Like his game he's impossible to analyse. You can't dissect him, predict him. Which of course means he's not a lunatic at all.
…
THE RUSSIAN: I don't need my army of so-called 'advisors' and helpers to tell me the man who's revitalised chess single-handed is more or less out of his brain, when it's very clear he's sane.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[quade 3]

Once again, you're attributing genius to what is far easier to attribute to incompetence.

I don't think Trump is a genius. I think he's a con man. Maybe even a slick one who can indeed fool some of the people some of the time.

I'm fairly certain the vast majority of people are not fooled.

http://www.pollingreport.com/wh16gen.htm

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[rehmwa 2]

wmw999

However, he showed he was a political whack job by making charts for debates.

He showed charts because he was an outsider. For Perot, that was an effective way to communicate in his industry.

Of course, Perot was over 35 years old, but since he was a citizen of fairy tale mazeland, he really didn't meet the minimum requirements (35 and US citizen). See picture.

Trump as a negotiator will talk about what he wants to accomplish, but likely won't 'promise' it'll happen exactly like that - he'll be incapable of ignoring that most negotiations require exec vs legislative tradeoffs - Negotiation involves tradeoffs. If he won't just (lie like all the other politicians) and make blanket promises he can't keep - that will hurt him.

Acknowledging reality is death to politicians. People want to be promised impossible things.

Obama was a master at this - "I'll work to bring together both sides to compromise so I'll get 100% of what I want". People are amazing that they don't see the absolute conflict of that type of speech.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[kallend 1,623]

Apparently the stake missed the heart:

www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/05/10/ted-cruz-declines-to-support-donald-trump-and-muses-about-re-entering-race/

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[quade 3]

kallend

Apparently the stake missed the heart:

www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/05/10/ted-cruz-declines-to-support-donald-trump-and-muses-about-re-entering-race/

That would be awesome since it would absolutely destroy both their chances.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[rehmwa 2]

kallend

Apparently the stake missed the heart:

www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/05/10/ted-cruz-declines-to-support-donald-trump-and-muses-about-re-entering-race/

Please no. No more, I can't take it....

Doesn't anyone watch vampire movies at all?

Stake in the heart,,,, AND you need to decapitate the creature too. Else they might still degenerate. Even then, it doesn't hurt to use a little holy water.

Some debate on whether silver is also more effective on vampires, but I really do think that's just a misread on something that really applies just to were creatures

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[TriGirl 268]

kallend

Apparently the stake missed the heart:

www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/05/10/ted-cruz-declines-to-support-donald-trump-and-muses-about-re-entering-race/

Michelle Branch performed a new version of her song "Good-bye to You" on Samantha Bee two nights ago: "Good-bye, Ted Cruz!" It was hilarious!

http://uproxx.com/tv/michelle-branch-goodbye-to-you-ted-cruz-drop-out/

See the upside, and always wear your parachute! -- Christopher Titus

Shut Up & Jump!

[quade 3]

Tell me again what a brilliant chess player Trump is.

Quote

Johnson got the news that he had been selected by Trump in a congratulatory email sent to him by the campaign's California Delegate Coordinator, Katie Lagomarsino. "I just hope to show how I can be mainstream and have these views," Johnson tells Mother Jones. "I can be a white nationalist and be a strong supporter of Donald Trump and be a good example to everybody."

Source: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/05/donald-trump-white-nationalist-afp-delegate-california

What exactly is this in terms of a "winning" move?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[jcd11235 0]

quade

Once again, you're attributing genius to what is far easier to attribute to incompetence.

I don't think Trump is a genius. I think he's a con man. Maybe even a slick one who can indeed fool some of the people some of the time.

We're well past the point of attributing his results to incompetence.

I agree he's a con man. That's not mutually exclusive of genius, however. While I'm inclined to believe he would probably be incompetent as president, he has proven to be anything but when it comes to campaigning.

Make no mistake, if Clinton underestimates Trump as you do, he'll be the 45th president.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!