skyhawk 2 #176 March 27, 2002 1. i think gayness is a choice, personally i dont like male gayness but if they dont try nothen on me i can have a drink jump etc with them2. i think all people that want to adopt children should go through very very rigourise counsoling , back ground checks etc3. i dont think they should be able to adopt untill the can marry, this doesnt mean they have to be married but being 17 ive just left the "mean child" age groups and trust me if your parents are gay you will cop a hell of alot more than anything else, mayby its just where i grew up but if you/your parents where a diferent colour, race, religion etc no one cared but if you where gay or even worse your parents you would really cop it. 4. It should be on a very small case by case thing at the moment 20 years down the track getting raised by gays will be nothing but at the moment it is.alot of older people seem to have the opinion that the world you youth is really open minded in a lot of ways it is but certain things especially male gayness isnt accepted instead it is hiddenOpinions are like a-holes everyone has one, the only one that does you any good is yours and all that comes out is shit Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lazerq3 0 #177 March 27, 2002 Geeze skyhawk...didnt you know that with the proper technique you could of had 5 diff posts to explain yourself.....man what a waste!!!!! ...(sorry guys...couldnt resist)(but thats another post...tee-hee)jason Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhino 0 #178 March 27, 2002 I'm not a Pooh-Bah yet.. Haven't mastered the art.. Semper Fi ..... http:// www.aahit.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyhawk 2 #179 March 27, 2002 hey im a pooh bah yay hey moderator ppls can i please be a poon bear now pretty please.oh yer and i think the whole "its the way they where raised" argument is bullshit sure it does affect them but at the end of the day 99.9% of the world has the knowledge and ability to make there own decisions and as i said in another topic religion rules are mearly our inbuilt rules being given an authority.i come from a lower middle class family with both parents bank people and no skydivers and both religous one more so than the other.i have no plans on being middle class let alone lower middle class im not going to work in a bank i skydive and have no religion.sure i admit there is an influence but there are so many more influences in the world at the end of the day you make your own decisions and saying oh thats how they where raised is just an excuseOpinions are like a-holes everyone has one, the only one that does you any good is yours and all that comes out is shit Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Opie 0 #180 March 27, 2002 OK posters, I've just scanned this whole thread and roughly come up with 21 for yes and 8 for no. Skydivers are cool 22 for yes and 8 for no. BoobiesOpieIf your not on the edge, you can't enjoy the view! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,434 #181 March 27, 2002 >Absolutely not. I don't care how frickin mainstream the media and the vocal> minority makes it out, it's still NOT RIGHT to the great majority of god-fearing> humans.That may be, but that wasn't the question. Masturbation may not be right to most people, and drinking more than two beers a night may not be right to most people, and even skydiving may not be right to some people. Should any of those things be illegal just because people think they're not right? Should it be illegal for a gay couple to adopt just because people think _that's_ not right? That's the question.Be careful with your answer, because if the moral majority really does rule, a lot of what we do falls under the heading of "not right."-bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Michele 1 #182 March 27, 2002 Ever wonder why I don't look like my Father?I was adopted. I was given up for adoption at birth, with some physical issues (problem with my leg, problem keeping food down). I spent some time in foster care, with a nurse as my "foster mother". But then she gave me to another family, and then I came home to my adoptive family. I was too young to actually remember it, but I will tell you the after effects are still with me.As a child, I didn't care who cuddled me, as long as their heart beat in my ear. I didn't care who put me to bed, as long as the good night kiss was given, and I would wake to the same person in the morning. I didn't care who made dinner, or washed my clothes, or kissed my booboos (read that word carefully LOL), as long as someone did. I recall spending hours staring in the mirror, wondering who I looked like. I would look at women and wonder if they were my mother. You all have stories about being brought home from the hospital. I have stories of being brought home from the adoption agency. Adoption is not an easy thing - parenting is not an easy thing. But my parents did everything they could to establish a sense of history for me. The adoption papers say I was English and Dutch, so we studied the history of England and Holland. My brother was Irish and Italian, and we studied the history of Italy and Ireland. (As an adult, I searched and found my birth family. I found out I was Scots/Irish and American Indian. So much for that! LOL, but Dad and Mom tried). When it came time for school, it was discovered I was adopted. I spent twelve fucking years being told by my peers that I was unwanted, unloved, and that I was trash, thrown away, an accident. I spent those years hearing that I was not good enough to keep. No amount of ignoring them helped, nor did fighting. I was rejected because I was "different". I remember someone telling me, earnestly explaining, that nothing in the animal kingdom ever abandoned their young except when there was a physical defect, and it was a threat to the "herd". I had the feeling for years that I was a detriment to the "herd", and should have been left to die. Not fun for a 10 year old. Then my mother left my father, they divorced and it was messy, and yet another round of rejection, both from self and peers, set in. How horrible was that for me at 14 years old? To this day I have serious self-esteem issues. Self -worth issues. But am I better off then someone who had been left in the system? Absolutely. Totally. Undoubtedly. Do I think gay people should be allowed to adopt? YES!!!!!!! Emphatically so. If it takes one child out of the system, puts them in a home where they are loved, I don't care what the parent's sexual orientation is - it is love, love, love. A child is to be cherished. There is no cherishing in the foster home system - only wondering where you will be the next day. Still at that home? Or with someone else, a new home, new people, new environment? Kids will be cruel. As Bill Von stated, whatever makes you different will get you picked on. That's no excuse for denying a child a consistency they need to develop and grow.The constant fear of where you will be tomorrow is far greater than anything I experienced, or anything a child of a gay couple will experience. The adopted child has a chance, a slight chance, of being secure and knowing they can get a hug, a meal, a bed, and love, love, love. The child in the system knows none of that.Let anyone who can afford to keep a roof over the head of a child adopt that child. Let the child be loved. Let the child be loved. Please let the child be loved. Ciels and pinks-MicheleIf you really want to, you can seize the day; if you really want to, you can fly away...~enya~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyhawk 2 #183 March 27, 2002 i can harldly imagine what that would be like one of my mates at 17 found out that his dad wasnt his dad and he was pretty fuked up for awhile i can imagine it would be way worse at a young age and both parentsOpinions are like a-holes everyone has one, the only one that does you any good is yours and all that comes out is shit Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rogue108 0 #184 March 27, 2002 This a loaded question, looking for controversy and a heated debate. I kinda don't see its point DZ.com either, but in any case I am not going to touch it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jessica 0 #185 March 27, 2002 Thanks for posting that, Michele. *hug*Everyone -- for a really wonderful, touching (true) account of gay adoption, read Dan Savage's The Kid. I laughed, I cried, I wrinkled my nose in horror. It's a great read.No, it's not updated. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lazerq3 0 #186 March 27, 2002 QuoteI kinda don't see its point DZ.com eitherHell....I dont see the piont in half the threads posted in the talk back forum....But then if it werent for these threads...all we'ed have to talk about is BOOBIES, and BEER!!!! These threads are what makes DZ.com fun to partake in..........jason Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AndyMan 7 #187 March 27, 2002 QuoteEveryone -- for a really wonderful, touching (true) account of gay adoption, read Dan Savage's The Kid. I laughed, I cried, I wrinkled my nose in horror. It's a great read.I'll second this. Dan Savage is a good author who's led a very interesting life._AmICQ: 5578907MSN Messenger: andrewdmetcalfe at hotmail dot com AIM: andrewdmetcalfeYahoo IM: ametcalf_1999 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rogue108 0 #188 March 27, 2002 This one just seemed way out there...thats all Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites indyz 1 #189 March 27, 2002 Savage also writes the best (real) advice column ever. It's like Dear Abby with swearing and brutally blunt answers.--Brian Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SpeedRacer 1 #190 March 27, 2002 QuoteGenetically, yes. She has a Y chromosome.The film star Jamie Lee Curtis is one well-known individual who is genetically male, but phenotypically female. hey billvon, how would you know this? Have you personally done a metaphase spread on Jamie Lee Curtis's chromosomes, or do you know a reputable source that has? Snopes.com classifies this one as a rumor. Since there's so much bullshit floating around, with and without the internet, I'm not going to accept this without some substantial evidence.Quote1. i think gayness is a choice, personally i dont like male gayness but if they dont try nothen on me i can have a drink jump etc with themwell I don't think its choice at all. I am always hearing gay people say "I knew I was gay when I was about 12 years old." That implies that the impulses just arose within them. When I reached puberty & started having sexual feelings I had those feelings for girls, not boys. I didn't sit down & say to myself, " I think I will be a heterosexual, because that's what society/my church approves of!" It just happened by itself, not choice at all. I can only assume that the same thing is true of gays.And this brings up another point among some fundamentalists who say that homosexuality is immoral.For something to be moral or immoral, it must be a matter of choice. Free will is the very basis of morality vs. immorality. (That's why if a crocodile kills & eats a human, we don't say that the croc did it because the croc was immoral! The croc just acted according to its nature! Morality wasn't an isssue!) I didn't choose to be straight, nor does a gay person choose to be gay. If one's sexual orientation isn't a matter of choice, how can it be a matter of morality??Speed Racer"Fill your hand, you son-of-a-bitch!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyhawk 2 #191 March 27, 2002 well i didnt say it was imorale just that it was a choice, i like pepsi but not pumpkin this isnt what i was born with just choices i have madeOpinions are like a-holes everyone has one, the only one that does you any good is yours and all that comes out is shit Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SpeedRacer 1 #192 March 27, 2002 Quotewell i didnt say it was imorale just that it was a choiceyeah I know that, but I am also saying it is NOT a choice!!Speed Racer"Fill your hand, you son-of-a-bitch!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Kelly 0 #193 March 27, 2002 I'm in the process of writing a 15 page research paper regarding interracial adoption. In the 75 abstract articles i have downloaded and the three books i've aquired gay couples adopting children has come up. I've also got articles regarding this issue in several text books for school. Anyone wanting to seriously discuss or learn more about this topic email me privately. Do a little reading guys... you'll learn a bit about the adoption system and how the kids generally turn out, no matter who raises them.. http://kel197.tripod.com/skydivefriendsTRIPOD/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkymonkeyONE 3 #194 March 27, 2002 QuoteAnother reason I don't like bible thumpers... Who said I was a bible thumper? Actually, who said I was even Christian? I was raised Methodist and Baptist, but my parents are Church of God zealots now. My dog tags say JEWISH, and my wife is a lapsed Mormon. None of this has anything to do with whether or not I think adoption should be allowed by gay parents. Hey, if a couple has their wiring crossed and "it's right" for them to live that way then so be it, but don't ever think that the majority of the people in the world will think it's right or believe they ought to be able to raise a child; they won't. It has absolutely nothing to do with religion. I just thought I would clarify my initial response. My webpage HERE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhino 0 #195 March 27, 2002 I said in the beginning that I had mixed feelings about it and that I would tend to say no. I have many reasons that I have explained for saying that. Being that I have been in a VERY nasty custody battle for my son in the last 2 years I am very sensitive to what children are subjected to. I make sure that nothing that is wrong between his mother and I get's back to him from me.. my brain hurts.As far as gay parents adopting children.. The argument can be made that 2 gay parents that truly love a child is better than a straight family that doesn't. That argument would be hard to deny. Do I agree with it. No. Would I picket in the street and scream it's wrong.. No.. This is where the mixed feelings come in.. It obviously has to be on a case by case basis. But lets face it. Marriage is being taken for granted in a great number of couples and the children are paying for it and eventually we shall pay for it. [hug for Michelle] I am all for a child growing up loved and in an environment that brings out their potential. Bottom line they need to be loved and raised as properly or as best as possible. I would much rather it be in a straight family to avoid the mental trauma that will most definitely ensue for the rest of their lives. And yes people raised by straight parents experience their own set of trauma if not raised in the perfect family. I respect everyones opinion. I wouldn't have asked if I didn't. This is not a personal attack thread but a thread between adults expressing deep rooted opinions. Good for everyone for not resorting to slamming "in public at least" Rhino Semper Fi ..... http:// www.aahit.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kingbunky 3 #196 March 27, 2002 QuoteThe youth of today are much more knowledgeable and tolerant of all kinds of things than my generation.this is probably because our kids' parents (us) are more knowledgable and tolerant than our parents were, and our kids learn from us, combined with what they see in society. our grandkids will probably be more tolerant than our kids. when i was younger, you were different form other kids if your parents were divorced. nowadays it's so common for a kid to have one parent with or without a step-parent that it's not really an issue anymore. given time, the sexual orientation of the parents won't matter any more either. i think that if a gay couple meets all the requirments that straight couples do that they should not be discriminated against.nothing succeeds like a budgie with no teeth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Opie 0 #197 March 27, 2002 Hey, if a couple has their wiring crossed and "it's right" for them to live that way then so be it, but don't ever think that the majority of the people in the world will think it's rightWhat makes it "their" wiring that's crossed? and maybe I'm wrong here but at one point didn't "the majority of the people in the world" think the place was flat and not round???OpieIf your not on the edge, you can't enjoy the view! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JDBoston 0 #198 March 27, 2002 Chuck, in all fairness I think you should expand a bit on what you think the negative consequences would be of gay parents raising a child. Consequences for the child, for society at large, etc. Joe Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhino 0 #199 March 27, 2002 JD, give it a few years.. We will all see the consequences.. Hopefully they lean towards the positive side instead of the negative side but I don't think they will. Oh.. Sorry, you were asking Chuck.. Semper Fi ..... http:// www.aahit.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites scottbre 0 #200 March 27, 2002 QuoteWhat makes it "their" wiring that's crossed? and maybe I'm wrong here but at one point didn't "the majority of the people in the world" think the place was flat and not round???Baad analogy. The two situations don't even compare."Fixing the world through self-destruction." 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rhino 0 #178 March 27, 2002 I'm not a Pooh-Bah yet.. Haven't mastered the art.. Semper Fi ..... http:// www.aahit.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyhawk 2 #179 March 27, 2002 hey im a pooh bah yay hey moderator ppls can i please be a poon bear now pretty please.oh yer and i think the whole "its the way they where raised" argument is bullshit sure it does affect them but at the end of the day 99.9% of the world has the knowledge and ability to make there own decisions and as i said in another topic religion rules are mearly our inbuilt rules being given an authority.i come from a lower middle class family with both parents bank people and no skydivers and both religous one more so than the other.i have no plans on being middle class let alone lower middle class im not going to work in a bank i skydive and have no religion.sure i admit there is an influence but there are so many more influences in the world at the end of the day you make your own decisions and saying oh thats how they where raised is just an excuseOpinions are like a-holes everyone has one, the only one that does you any good is yours and all that comes out is shit Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Opie 0 #180 March 27, 2002 OK posters, I've just scanned this whole thread and roughly come up with 21 for yes and 8 for no. Skydivers are cool 22 for yes and 8 for no. BoobiesOpieIf your not on the edge, you can't enjoy the view! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,434 #181 March 27, 2002 >Absolutely not. I don't care how frickin mainstream the media and the vocal> minority makes it out, it's still NOT RIGHT to the great majority of god-fearing> humans.That may be, but that wasn't the question. Masturbation may not be right to most people, and drinking more than two beers a night may not be right to most people, and even skydiving may not be right to some people. Should any of those things be illegal just because people think they're not right? Should it be illegal for a gay couple to adopt just because people think _that's_ not right? That's the question.Be careful with your answer, because if the moral majority really does rule, a lot of what we do falls under the heading of "not right."-bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #182 March 27, 2002 Ever wonder why I don't look like my Father?I was adopted. I was given up for adoption at birth, with some physical issues (problem with my leg, problem keeping food down). I spent some time in foster care, with a nurse as my "foster mother". But then she gave me to another family, and then I came home to my adoptive family. I was too young to actually remember it, but I will tell you the after effects are still with me.As a child, I didn't care who cuddled me, as long as their heart beat in my ear. I didn't care who put me to bed, as long as the good night kiss was given, and I would wake to the same person in the morning. I didn't care who made dinner, or washed my clothes, or kissed my booboos (read that word carefully LOL), as long as someone did. I recall spending hours staring in the mirror, wondering who I looked like. I would look at women and wonder if they were my mother. You all have stories about being brought home from the hospital. I have stories of being brought home from the adoption agency. Adoption is not an easy thing - parenting is not an easy thing. But my parents did everything they could to establish a sense of history for me. The adoption papers say I was English and Dutch, so we studied the history of England and Holland. My brother was Irish and Italian, and we studied the history of Italy and Ireland. (As an adult, I searched and found my birth family. I found out I was Scots/Irish and American Indian. So much for that! LOL, but Dad and Mom tried). When it came time for school, it was discovered I was adopted. I spent twelve fucking years being told by my peers that I was unwanted, unloved, and that I was trash, thrown away, an accident. I spent those years hearing that I was not good enough to keep. No amount of ignoring them helped, nor did fighting. I was rejected because I was "different". I remember someone telling me, earnestly explaining, that nothing in the animal kingdom ever abandoned their young except when there was a physical defect, and it was a threat to the "herd". I had the feeling for years that I was a detriment to the "herd", and should have been left to die. Not fun for a 10 year old. Then my mother left my father, they divorced and it was messy, and yet another round of rejection, both from self and peers, set in. How horrible was that for me at 14 years old? To this day I have serious self-esteem issues. Self -worth issues. But am I better off then someone who had been left in the system? Absolutely. Totally. Undoubtedly. Do I think gay people should be allowed to adopt? YES!!!!!!! Emphatically so. If it takes one child out of the system, puts them in a home where they are loved, I don't care what the parent's sexual orientation is - it is love, love, love. A child is to be cherished. There is no cherishing in the foster home system - only wondering where you will be the next day. Still at that home? Or with someone else, a new home, new people, new environment? Kids will be cruel. As Bill Von stated, whatever makes you different will get you picked on. That's no excuse for denying a child a consistency they need to develop and grow.The constant fear of where you will be tomorrow is far greater than anything I experienced, or anything a child of a gay couple will experience. The adopted child has a chance, a slight chance, of being secure and knowing they can get a hug, a meal, a bed, and love, love, love. The child in the system knows none of that.Let anyone who can afford to keep a roof over the head of a child adopt that child. Let the child be loved. Let the child be loved. Please let the child be loved. Ciels and pinks-MicheleIf you really want to, you can seize the day; if you really want to, you can fly away...~enya~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyhawk 2 #183 March 27, 2002 i can harldly imagine what that would be like one of my mates at 17 found out that his dad wasnt his dad and he was pretty fuked up for awhile i can imagine it would be way worse at a young age and both parentsOpinions are like a-holes everyone has one, the only one that does you any good is yours and all that comes out is shit Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rogue108 0 #184 March 27, 2002 This a loaded question, looking for controversy and a heated debate. I kinda don't see its point DZ.com either, but in any case I am not going to touch it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jessica 0 #185 March 27, 2002 Thanks for posting that, Michele. *hug*Everyone -- for a really wonderful, touching (true) account of gay adoption, read Dan Savage's The Kid. I laughed, I cried, I wrinkled my nose in horror. It's a great read.No, it's not updated. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lazerq3 0 #186 March 27, 2002 QuoteI kinda don't see its point DZ.com eitherHell....I dont see the piont in half the threads posted in the talk back forum....But then if it werent for these threads...all we'ed have to talk about is BOOBIES, and BEER!!!! These threads are what makes DZ.com fun to partake in..........jason Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #187 March 27, 2002 QuoteEveryone -- for a really wonderful, touching (true) account of gay adoption, read Dan Savage's The Kid. I laughed, I cried, I wrinkled my nose in horror. It's a great read.I'll second this. Dan Savage is a good author who's led a very interesting life._AmICQ: 5578907MSN Messenger: andrewdmetcalfe at hotmail dot com AIM: andrewdmetcalfeYahoo IM: ametcalf_1999 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rogue108 0 #188 March 27, 2002 This one just seemed way out there...thats all Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
indyz 1 #189 March 27, 2002 Savage also writes the best (real) advice column ever. It's like Dear Abby with swearing and brutally blunt answers.--Brian Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #190 March 27, 2002 QuoteGenetically, yes. She has a Y chromosome.The film star Jamie Lee Curtis is one well-known individual who is genetically male, but phenotypically female. hey billvon, how would you know this? Have you personally done a metaphase spread on Jamie Lee Curtis's chromosomes, or do you know a reputable source that has? Snopes.com classifies this one as a rumor. Since there's so much bullshit floating around, with and without the internet, I'm not going to accept this without some substantial evidence.Quote1. i think gayness is a choice, personally i dont like male gayness but if they dont try nothen on me i can have a drink jump etc with themwell I don't think its choice at all. I am always hearing gay people say "I knew I was gay when I was about 12 years old." That implies that the impulses just arose within them. When I reached puberty & started having sexual feelings I had those feelings for girls, not boys. I didn't sit down & say to myself, " I think I will be a heterosexual, because that's what society/my church approves of!" It just happened by itself, not choice at all. I can only assume that the same thing is true of gays.And this brings up another point among some fundamentalists who say that homosexuality is immoral.For something to be moral or immoral, it must be a matter of choice. Free will is the very basis of morality vs. immorality. (That's why if a crocodile kills & eats a human, we don't say that the croc did it because the croc was immoral! The croc just acted according to its nature! Morality wasn't an isssue!) I didn't choose to be straight, nor does a gay person choose to be gay. If one's sexual orientation isn't a matter of choice, how can it be a matter of morality??Speed Racer"Fill your hand, you son-of-a-bitch!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyhawk 2 #191 March 27, 2002 well i didnt say it was imorale just that it was a choice, i like pepsi but not pumpkin this isnt what i was born with just choices i have madeOpinions are like a-holes everyone has one, the only one that does you any good is yours and all that comes out is shit Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #192 March 27, 2002 Quotewell i didnt say it was imorale just that it was a choiceyeah I know that, but I am also saying it is NOT a choice!!Speed Racer"Fill your hand, you son-of-a-bitch!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kelly 0 #193 March 27, 2002 I'm in the process of writing a 15 page research paper regarding interracial adoption. In the 75 abstract articles i have downloaded and the three books i've aquired gay couples adopting children has come up. I've also got articles regarding this issue in several text books for school. Anyone wanting to seriously discuss or learn more about this topic email me privately. Do a little reading guys... you'll learn a bit about the adoption system and how the kids generally turn out, no matter who raises them.. http://kel197.tripod.com/skydivefriendsTRIPOD/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 3 #194 March 27, 2002 QuoteAnother reason I don't like bible thumpers... Who said I was a bible thumper? Actually, who said I was even Christian? I was raised Methodist and Baptist, but my parents are Church of God zealots now. My dog tags say JEWISH, and my wife is a lapsed Mormon. None of this has anything to do with whether or not I think adoption should be allowed by gay parents. Hey, if a couple has their wiring crossed and "it's right" for them to live that way then so be it, but don't ever think that the majority of the people in the world will think it's right or believe they ought to be able to raise a child; they won't. It has absolutely nothing to do with religion. I just thought I would clarify my initial response. My webpage HERE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #195 March 27, 2002 I said in the beginning that I had mixed feelings about it and that I would tend to say no. I have many reasons that I have explained for saying that. Being that I have been in a VERY nasty custody battle for my son in the last 2 years I am very sensitive to what children are subjected to. I make sure that nothing that is wrong between his mother and I get's back to him from me.. my brain hurts.As far as gay parents adopting children.. The argument can be made that 2 gay parents that truly love a child is better than a straight family that doesn't. That argument would be hard to deny. Do I agree with it. No. Would I picket in the street and scream it's wrong.. No.. This is where the mixed feelings come in.. It obviously has to be on a case by case basis. But lets face it. Marriage is being taken for granted in a great number of couples and the children are paying for it and eventually we shall pay for it. [hug for Michelle] I am all for a child growing up loved and in an environment that brings out their potential. Bottom line they need to be loved and raised as properly or as best as possible. I would much rather it be in a straight family to avoid the mental trauma that will most definitely ensue for the rest of their lives. And yes people raised by straight parents experience their own set of trauma if not raised in the perfect family. I respect everyones opinion. I wouldn't have asked if I didn't. This is not a personal attack thread but a thread between adults expressing deep rooted opinions. Good for everyone for not resorting to slamming "in public at least" Rhino Semper Fi ..... http:// www.aahit.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kingbunky 3 #196 March 27, 2002 QuoteThe youth of today are much more knowledgeable and tolerant of all kinds of things than my generation.this is probably because our kids' parents (us) are more knowledgable and tolerant than our parents were, and our kids learn from us, combined with what they see in society. our grandkids will probably be more tolerant than our kids. when i was younger, you were different form other kids if your parents were divorced. nowadays it's so common for a kid to have one parent with or without a step-parent that it's not really an issue anymore. given time, the sexual orientation of the parents won't matter any more either. i think that if a gay couple meets all the requirments that straight couples do that they should not be discriminated against.nothing succeeds like a budgie with no teeth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Opie 0 #197 March 27, 2002 Hey, if a couple has their wiring crossed and "it's right" for them to live that way then so be it, but don't ever think that the majority of the people in the world will think it's rightWhat makes it "their" wiring that's crossed? and maybe I'm wrong here but at one point didn't "the majority of the people in the world" think the place was flat and not round???OpieIf your not on the edge, you can't enjoy the view! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JDBoston 0 #198 March 27, 2002 Chuck, in all fairness I think you should expand a bit on what you think the negative consequences would be of gay parents raising a child. Consequences for the child, for society at large, etc. Joe Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #199 March 27, 2002 JD, give it a few years.. We will all see the consequences.. Hopefully they lean towards the positive side instead of the negative side but I don't think they will. Oh.. Sorry, you were asking Chuck.. Semper Fi ..... http:// www.aahit.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scottbre 0 #200 March 27, 2002 QuoteWhat makes it "their" wiring that's crossed? and maybe I'm wrong here but at one point didn't "the majority of the people in the world" think the place was flat and not round???Baad analogy. The two situations don't even compare."Fixing the world through self-destruction." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
