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Showing results for 'SABRE2 VS CROSSFIRE2'.
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I don't remember PD actually starting the advertising on the Velocity, Vengeance or Sabre2 until they came out. Hell, PD didn't even have a name for the Sabre2 for some time - they were torn on what to call it even when Skydive Chicago was doing test jumps on it. When I first jumped the canopy it was called the XE190. Is 6 months a long time to wait from marketing to product? Yea, of course - in IT rumors of it being Vaporware comes about. But then again, not all skydiver are on this forum talking about it - they have just seen 4 or 5 adds and probably never gave it a second thought. And most people won't care to find out more about it - I still know some people, including a gear seller or two, that think the Crossfire2 is a cross-braced canopy. But this is PD - and they usually go on the side of caution. I have no problems with them waiting until it's done. Like some popular game designer said "It's done when it's done." You know, if it hit the market and needed a mandatory SB shortly thereafter, it would kill the demand for the canopy and they would need to release the Katana2 just about a year later, not that any parachute company has ever done that I can wait, and I am not calling PD every day asking them about it - I will get a chance to jump it as soon as it's done, and I don't want to jump it before it.....now, where the hell is my copy of Doom3 and half-life 2????? Oh, and canopies can scale - ask PD what planform the Sigma and Sabre2 are based/scaled off of. The Vengeance. _________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again.....
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About me: 700 jumps in 3.5 years. 200 on my Sabre2 120 @ 1.5. Spectre 135 and 150 before that. Openings: This is my only real quibble. The openings on my Sabre2 have ranged from absolutely text book, soft, on heading to the occasional one which dives and turns hard enough to put a twist in. Having said that I've never chopped it and I've been happy enough to jump it with my wingsuit. Flight: Toggle turns are quick with little oversteer. Hanging on the rear risers flattens the glide noticeable. Flying around in deep brakes, bumping end cells with friends is easy and the canopy feels very solid. Front riser pressure is the lowest of any canopy I've jumped. Low speed stalls are gentle and predictable but the recovery can be quite violent. Landings: Compared to my Spectres this canopy is an absolute dream to land! It has so much flare that even after a nice front riser approach and a little swoop it puts you down gently. It's rare that I have to run out a landing. Front riser input will dive the canopy more than I expected and you can generate quite a lot of speed, even with just a nice 90 degree turn. Pull off a well timed 180 and you'll go as far as many people on their Stilettos. Gentle carves during landing are quite possible, through leaning in the harness or steering with the toggles. Conclusion: I've just ordered a Crossfire2 to quench my need for speed but my Sabre2 has been great. It was a definate step up in performance from my Spectre 135 but it was tens times more fun! Gus
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See, having jumped all three of those canopies in multipul sizes as well, I disagree with you. I agree that the Sabre2 *can* be pushed harder then the Pilot, I state that the Sabre2 has better openings by far, except for the Safire2 which had incredible openings similar to those of a Crossfire2. That goes back to my original post and how I clarified in the next post. Any canopy can spank you at any time. Regardless of design and that I don't trust sponsered jumper's opinions. I will demo the gear and make my own opinion. I advise those who ask me to do the same. Demo canopies are cheap and easy to come by, jump it all in the size and class that's appropiate for you and make your own decision. --"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."
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Typically, with modern designed canopies that respond positively to front riser input, "bucking" from the canopy has to do with toggle settings. When the control lines (toggles aka steering lines) are set too short, you are deflecting the tail of the canopy while pulling down the front riser. This will cause the canopy to "buck." In my experience you have to let out the stock toggle position on Sabre2s to allow for front riser movement (assuming you have your toggles in your hands while doing front riser inputs, which you should). You'll find a happy medium between having the toggle settings short enough and close enough to the "stock" setting for a good toggle stroke, but long enough to allow for appropriate front riser input. I recommend that you check with your rigger to help with the settings and adjustments until you learn how to properly finger trap and tie the setting. I also recommend that you make small adjustments, typically around an inch at a time, to get the setting correct with out letting too much out at once! This isn't specific to the Sabre2. Other canopies I have had to make the same adjustment on: Sabre1, Stiletto, Cobalt, Pilot, Mamba, Crossfire2, Triathalon, Spectre, Heatwave, Hornet...I'm sure there are more, I just can't remember right now. --"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."
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and to rebut richards statement... 180s: Sabre2 170, 150 - 500 ftish crossfire2 129, 119 and 109 500 ftish Velo 103 and 96 550ftish 270s: crossfire 119, 109 - 650-700 ft ish velo 103, 96 650-800ft dependent on fat quotient and sea level relativity... so richard when you gonna come party with us in NY??? Dave http://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.
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About me: 900 jumps in 4.5 years. Owned 2 Spectres (150,135), then a Sabre2 (120) before my Crossfire2 (99). I load it about 1.7. Have also flown: student Mantas, Paratec Quadra, PD 9 cell, PD Sabre, PD Stiletto, PD Vengeance, Atair Troll. 150+ jumps on my Crossfire2. Openings: very consistent in the time/altitude they take to open, I'd say it takes 500 or 600 feet. 'Hunts' a little during inflation but not massively. Pretty sensitive to my terrible body position. If I really make the effort to concentrate on my body position during opening it's beautiful. I've had twists a handful of times and it's been very well behaved whilst I'll kick them out. I'm not really in to the whole 'steer your openings' thing, I think your likely to do more harm than good, so I just let it get on with it which it does just fine. Flight: Have done some close flight with a Stiletto 150 (@ ~1.5) and found it pretty easy to fly next to one another, although I was deeper in to brakes as you might expect. Glide seems pretty comparable to most other canopies out there, maybe slightly better than average. I've certainly made it back from some spots where I thought I wouldn't. Toggle turns are a hoot and chew up altitude pretty quick. Seems very stable in flight. Recovered very well when my mate grabbed my bridle at 7k and folded the thing in half! Landings: This is where it's at. I'm starting my carving 180 turns a little under 500 feet at the moment. I'm still a bit inconsistent but when I get it right this thing will generate a *lot* of speed and will let you swoop a fair old distance. The flare is a little different to the PD canopies I've owned but once you get used to it it's plenty powerful and it'll happily set you down gently on a nil wind day. My only complaint might be the front riser pressure which starts off nice enough but seems to build quite quickly. If I come out of my 180 too high it can be a real struggle to hold both front risers down for more than four or five seconds. I haven't really played with the rear risers on landing so can't comment on that. Overall: Wonderful! A real joy to fly. I can't wait to move on to 270 approaches and unleash some of the real power of this canopy. Gus
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I was reluctant to vote since I didn't see an option which I fit into. I ended up voting for "No nice and slow" but it was more like "No ... but I've been lucky a few times". I didn't go cross-braced until I had over 900 jumps and only recently found myself on a sub 100 footer (just barely under 100 I might add). Plus I had received some canopy coaching several times before I was on a cross-braced and order up some more coaching soon after going cross-braced. But I did progress at a faster rate than most canopy nazis would recommend. I've had to dig myself out of the corner on a Sabre2 190 and Sabre2 170 a couple of times and I'm sure I would have been a statistic had I been on a smaller canopy. I seemed to fair okay on my Crossfire2 139 and 119 without any major corner incidents, but it wasn't until I got some high performance coaching from Mr Slaton while on my 119 that I started to understand what to do up there. I did come close in the spring of 2005 on a sunset load with a Velocity 111 as I spent too long trying to aquire the red entry gates in the flat light and definitely dug myself out of my grave on that occasion. There there has been one scary landing in competition (I should have aborted and taken the donut) as I tried to carve into the course on a failed approach. Plus I learned how painful a rear riser stall can be during a downwind speed carving course at the CPC Champsionships (don't confuse ground speed with airspeed). So it's not like I haven't been hurt swooping. I just (knock on wood) haven't femured or anything. Each and every one of us (including those with thousands of swoops) is capable of messing up. Don't ever let your guard down. But patience, a good attitude and coaching can go a long way towards making us better swoopers. It's not the canopy, it's the pilot controlling the canopy. PS: I got more serious with my swooping in the summer of 2004 after I came close to taking someone out on a head down freefly jump. After that incident I told myself to slow down (freefly wise) and concentrate on my canopy control. Ever since then I've done tons tons of high and low altitude hop n' pops and my freefly skills aren't as good as they once were. But I am a better canopy pilot because of this. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over
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Ok what canopy should i buy from this list
airborne82nd replied to airborne82nd's topic in Swooping and Canopy Control
pilot seems to be very slow nice canopy though i am sorry i guess the sabre2 isnt out dated my mistake. it has been around along time. i am looking for something to the next level up the next thing up from a stileto but not a katana the Sabre2 135 makes it hard to make it back from a long spots, i love landing off in peoples yards like the next guy. maybe my reasoning doesnt make sence. I saw a guy on a crossfire2 ( 150 ) i guess about my size swoop the hell out of the little zhills pond. i spoke to him and i said how big is that canopy he said 150 he told me that you he can make it back from a long spot, fly slow deep brakes, land soft straight in, and when he kicks it he can swoop it very well. got me thinking could i use the same criteria for selecting my canopy and if load it lighter will i get all the benifits as well. will it be harder to swoop a lighter loaded canopy meaning to learn to swoop?? is there a hidden danger in trying to swoop a lighter loaded canopy. will it force me to do dives from a lower height?? im 182lb so is it possible to safely swoop the larger canopies? in the 150 range? conventiaonal wisdom dictates to down size into the higher loaded canopys. is there anything wrong with my approach? Oh and yes i am very destructable, in 3 years and 5 years in the 82nd i have never injured myself parachuting. i have however hurt my self on motocross, years of karate, football oh and hitting my thumbb with the hammer. im 38 good shape married with a son so i am very conservative i have yet to scare the shit out of myself or do anything stupid ( i am amazed that i know folks that practice that daily ) plus i want a canopy for years i dont want to jump canopys so i want this canopy for say 1000 jumps look like every says dump the vision nitro or crossfire thank you everyone for your expertise yes thank you too fast -
Well, I have three "near-new" rigs in the closet and no time to use them right now with Homeland Security improvements in-progress. And, to answer your question: -- 1: Racer, PD-253r, Sabre2-210 2: Racer, PD-235r, Crossfire2-180 3: Racer, PD-218r, Crossfire2-149 -- BTW, I'm 6'2", wear a 48-inch jacket, have a 19-inch MLW, and I'm 240-lbs out the door!
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I used to fly a safire2. I like the openings. Got the brakes shortened 5cm. The openings on the sabre2 that I tried had a tendency to turn right and open a little abrupt. Maybe the trim and/or my packing. Other than that not all that different IMO. Personal choice. Both good canopy to learn ground launch. I like my crossfire2 now.
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Thanks guys for your comments! I believe it will be better... and yes I'm spoiled Before I jumped a Sabre2. This canopy has also very great openings! But then I thougt, the crossfire2 has better openings. Maybe too much anticipation/prospects I will jump the "new" packed Crossfire at saturday... I'm hopeful
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Hummmm...lets see, what did I have. When I was a student, I jumped my dad's Sabre 170. After student status I had a Sabre 150 for about 25 - 50 jumps, then a 135 for about 150 jumps, then a Sabre2 120 for 70 jumps, and now my Stiletto 107 for the past 200 jumps which I LOVE. I've also jumped a Crossfire2 99 and a Crossfire2 89 just for fun...But I'm still enjoying and learning a lot on my 107 too much to want to downsize again just yet.
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well see..... i like canopies that have a 2 in the name. like a sabre2, crossfire2, jvx, ya know? http://www.turboskydiving.com
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"Tapered" vs "Semi-Elliptical" vs "Fully-Elliptical" vs "Cross-braced"
Elisha replied to Elisha's topic in Gear and Rigging
Yes, I think the general perception is that the semi-elliptical canopies are the "well behaved" tapered canopies while the fully elliptical canopies are the nylon version of a fighter jet. IIRC, at least the Safire2 is marketed as fully elliptical. I can't be sure at the moment about the Sabre2 or the Pilot. Take the terminology with a grain of salt. I'm just trying to figure out what the terminology is supposed to mean. Are you sure you don't mean the Crossfire2? I wouldn't think the Safire2 would be considered in the same class as the Pilot or Sabre2 if it is indeed considered fully elliptical. -
Okay.. a bit more detail.. since jump 350 I did some jumps with demo canopies (about 5 each on the katana 150 and storm 150) I just used only toggles and RR on both. I found both glide angles to be very steep in comparison to the Pilot, Stiletto and Spectre, which I didn't like at all- I like flatly trimmed canopies more. I continued jumping my Pilot 168 until my Stiletto had a new line set. (up to jump 400 aprox.) I then started to jump the stiletto 150.. I hated the openings but admit that I was also quite used to the pilots very soft and consistent openings. I jumped the stiletto for another 30 jumps or so. The openings were really hard each jump, so while jumping the stiletto I was already looking around for a new canopy.. Other than the openings I found the stiletto to have a nice glide angle, trimmed quite flatly.. I had almost no problems getting back to the dz after a long spot. The toggle control range is more in height your ears as opposed to the pilot and Crossfire where the toggle input rage is more at elbow height. I found the stiletto to be a bit more responsive than the pilot but I need to say that I was still just getting used to the stiletto and was not yanking it around a lot, I was flying it the way it felt like to fly the pilot. The stilettos flare was nice. I felt I had a bit less- but enough flare at the end than with the bigger pilot. Shortly before buying the Crossfire2 I found out how to make the stiletto open softer.. but I already had commited myself to flying a different canopy. I decided to go for an Icarus canopy because it came highly recommended from other jumpers- with special emphasis on the openings. I always jump with a camera and often with a still as well so that was important to me. I fell in love with the Crossfire right after the first opening.. The openings are long.. approx 1000ft+ with mine.. but also very, very smooth. Since changing to the Crossfire I always pull around 300ft higher than with other canopies. I really like the Crossfire's responsiveness, trim, and flare characteristics.. Sometimes I am still surprised at how fast it is on a no wind day.. I feel very very comfortable with the canopy after 70 jumps (all in this year) and am now starting to use double front risers on landing and am practising 90° and 180° FR turns at altitude.. At altitude I have the feeling that it recovers from a dive quite quickly, which may be due to my wing loading being at the bottom range of icarus's recommendation. On a slow FR 180 with 2sec recovery I lose about 600ft.. I would always recommend to not do quick and hard toggle inputs when changing to a smaller elliptical canopy.. there is one video of a guy who did that with a sabre2 150 and got himself into a line twist at a low altitude resulting in a low cutaway and skyhook reserve deployment. This also happened to a good friend of mine a month ago under a 150 stiletto and at a low altitude leading to a very low cutaway.. Luckily nothing happened. I would recommend to first try to imitate the flight characteristics of your larger and maybe less elliptical canopy with the new one rather than using the same toggle inputs you were used to on the larger canopy and appling them to the new canopy.. Last but not least all my landings since jump 120 have been stand up landings (or running) and I have always felt very comfortable under each canopy up to now.. I also always try to get away from my home DZ a lot and ask people about their gear and opinions on gear at other DZ's.. It's amazing how people's opinions on gear and procedures change once you're away from home.. Hope that's better
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I'm counting two, maybe three people that read your post, as opposed to just giving their own canopy progressions . For what it's worth, my (inexperienced) thoughts: - Start on student canopies (Manta etc.) - A couple of hundred jumps on a Spectre/Tri/Sabre2/Pilot/Safire2 at about 1.0 - Many hundreds of jumps on various sizes of Safire2/Sabre2/Nitro/etc to get to 1.5 wingloading or a 120 size. - Crossfire2 or Katana for as long as it takes. - FX/VX/Velo if and when you're ready. Thoughts?
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Good and better are subjective terms. It really depends on what you're looking for out of a canopy. The Sabre2 is an excellent canopy to learn high performance landings under. The Crossfire2 is an excellent canopy for those who've learned the basics of swooping and want to take it further (and are willing to accept the risks that entails). From what I've been told the Katana will be positioned to compete with the Crossfire2... but it's not designed after the Stiletto planform.
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It depends on who you ask. Personally I put the Cobalt outside of a modern canopy progression. I place it in the same class as the Stiletto. Sure its a fun canopy, but it doesn't set you up to progress to a modern design swooping canopy. I would rather see someone go Sabre2, Katana to Velocity or Safire2, Crossfire2 to VX. Those canopies compliment each other as your progress. Not to say that the Cobalt isn't a fun canopy to fly, though. There have been some reports about quality control from Atair, though. That various canopies in the same size don't open or fly the same. I had a really bad personal experience with the Cobalt and Atair as a whole, but I wouldn't discourage you from exploring the canopy. That is IF you're qualified for the canopy and are jumping it in a size/wingloading that is appropriate for your jump numbers. --"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."
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Moving towards a Cobalt
ianmdrennan replied to kansasskydiver's topic in Swooping and Canopy Control
Hey Kansas, Looks like you're thinking this through as much as possible, which is a great start. I can totally understand you wanting to get something that opens nicely, or at least better than the sabre, which most canopies do nowdays anyway...so the question becomes which is the most appropriate for yourself. Well as far as type goes, well that just depends on what you're looking for. You aren't necessarily tied in to ellipticals for good openings. My wife as a sabre2 and is EXTREMELY happy with it..great openings, awesome flare/swoop and very very little oversteer. The spectre is another great opener, but I'm assuming you're looking for something with a better swoop. On the elliptical side I hear nothing but good things about the Crossfire2 (I only jumped the CF1 and was impressed with it), and the stiletto is still a winner, although not competative IMHO with the newer canopies for swooping distance, but still a kick ass canopy. Also a cheaper alternative is the Heatwave. Nice openings, spectacular on the toggles and riser pressure but not as long a swoop although I hear the H-mod does wonders to make this a longer diving canopy. My advise would be to come up with a list of "must haves" then demo as many canopies as you can (most companies have great demo programs and demo the size you plan to buy) and cross the ones off the list that you didn't like. That leaves you with size and the everpresent wingloading debate. Once again that's up to you and the knowledgable swoopers at your local dz to help you with. If you're loading a 170 @ 1.5 then I calculate you at 255 out the door (correct me if I'm wrong). With that exit weight a 150 puts you @ 1.7 which is pretty highly loaded. My advice (and I tend to be conservative) would be to stick to the 170 and go for something like the Crossfire2(or equivalent), or at least a canopy with a good dive arc, you'll probably outswoop the majority of the jumpers at the local dz with that loading and wing size about you're head if done correctly. You can always load up that badboy later. Either way, the beauty of the sport is that you can make the decision that is best for yourself. Quick note to address point c. The principals of flight remain the same regardless of the size of your wing. If you're seriously interested in improving your knowledge of flying a wing, I'd recommend attending a canopy class (Team extreme and various others offer them) that cater to all levels and drill the instructor with any questions you have. Good luck, blue skies and safe swoops, Ian Performance Designs Factory Team -
Yes, wasn't that impressed. Although the Crossfire2 really impressed me (hence me buying one and its what I still currently jump), but the Safire2 just didn't quite perform as well as the Sabre2, IMO. As for the pilot, I just haven't had a chance to get a demo yet. Everything I've heard from people whose opinion I trust about the Pilot (i.e. BillVon, even though he's an AIC) sounds like it flies just as well as the Sabre2 and maybe even a bit better in a couple of aspects. Side note, this thread really surprised me, since I didn't start the thread. Looks like Tonto moved a post of mine out of another thread and started a new one. Cool, surprised me, but cool. --"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."
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Just for fun I've packed a both Sabre2 and a Crossfire2 with over 6" of offset between the risers. Didn't do anything. Do you want to have an ideagasm?
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No one makes a crossbraced canopy above the 120 size (minus some custom Xaos 21s made a while back that were 135). The canopy is bucking in fronts due to your brake lines being too short and/or you're getting into the risers too deep. Every canopy out there will bump around in thermals. Even the Velo 111 I load at 2.6 and the VX 114 I jumped for a while loaded up similarly. When is the last time your canopy saw a line set? Have you jumped a Sabre2? The only thing similar to the Sabre1 is the name and that it has 9-cells. Demo a 190 and put 30-40 jumps on it. After you have done that try the Crossfire2 189. Katanas are only made up to 170, which is understandable since its the no-shit highest performing open 9-cell canopy on the market. The Katana is also one of the best opening high performance canopies on the market as well! Something you have to think about is how many jumps are you doing a year. Are you doing enough jumps to keep current enough on a canopy that takes over twice as much altitude to recover from a front riser maneuver than your old Sabre? They (PD) are working on the "large" Optima reserves, but its a lengthy process. I'm with you, since I would love to keep my "large" 176 sized reserve, but have a rig that fits my Velo 111 better. I'm really partial to PD, but don't take my word for it. Demo everything that is appropriate for your skill level. I'm willing to bet you come back to PD again. Feel free to PM me if you'd like, I'd be happy to help answer any questions you may have. I would also like you to call up to PD and talk to Isiah. He does work for PD, but he will give you a "no shit" opinion that is well educated and doesn't just center around PD's production line. --"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."
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Ground Launch Camp #1...
SlatonAirSports replied to SlatonAirSports's topic in Swooping and Canopy Control
Here is the current list of pilots accepted for Ground Launch Camp # 1 this November. There are still a few slots left for the camp but they are going fast. For info on the camp go to www.canopypiloting.com Steve Armstrong- Boulder, Colorado-Crossfire2 119 and a Spectre 150 Gerard Burnside- Paris, France- Sabre2 - 150 and 120 Bundy Taylor- Hawaii- stiletto 135,Xaos 108 Troy Keys- Mammoth Lakes, CA-Stiletto 120 Steve Schieberl- Portland, OR- Katana 97, Sabre2 107, and possibly a Sabre 150 Ryan Arnold- Davis, California-Stiletto 135 Collin Scott- Huntington Beach, California -Saber 150 Here is a friendly reminder of recommended items to bring with you: 1) Sleeping Bag 2) Helmet 3) Good shoes or hiking boots 4) Plastic water container or Camelback (or similar hydration system) 5) Sunglasses 6) Small 2-way radio (cheap Wal-mart unit O.K.) 7) Stuff sack to carry launch equipment 8) Small camera helmet O.K. Also, remember to take sliders off all canopies that will be used for launching Ground Launch Center CanopyPiloting.com (W/Forum) -
There are a lot of opinions out there!! And that is all they are. The best advice on this thread is to try them all. I made exactly this same decision early last year and demo'd them all... The Mamba I tried as a 117 and had a blast. The openings are sweet, although flying in brakes that deep needs some practice! I loved its speed of harness turn and the dive, which seemed to be to be greater than both of the other two, but that may be the slight size difference. And this canopy is fast in a straight line. Coming in (straight in) it seemed a lot faster than the other two. The toggle pressure is higher than the other two, but I liked the feedback that that gave me. Hands down, this is the canopy I would have chosen, but it had a 12 week lead time and I didn't want to wait! The Katana (120) is a nice all rounder. Nice openings, good dive, responsive turns etc. It's fun, but not as fun as the Mamba. It is, however, a very solid canopy with good resale value! I managed to find one second hand and went with that. The Crossfire2 (119) I was a little disappointed with. Beautiful openings for sure, and very predictable flight characteristics but it really lacked the feel of a high performance canopy for me. It was a nice canopy, but then so is a Sabre2 or a Pilot. It just didn't provide what I was looking for. These are all opinions, and I have no doubt that YMMV! *************** Not one shred of evidence supports the theory that life is serious - look at the platypus.
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The alarming thing to remember here is NOT that you are jumping a Sabre2 170 loaded at about 1.32:1 (heck I used to jump the same canopy loaded a tad heavier than you and know that it's a fun ride). The alarming thing is that you've downsized only after a handful of jumps time and time again. Can you tell me that you mastered that 210 before you downsized? How about that 190? Can you honestly say that you mastered it? What about this 170? According to your history (3-5 jumps ago) you should have already been on a 150 huh? So when's all this going to happen? Last Saturday on jump #184 of my current canopy (a Crossfire2 loaded at 1.5:1) and all previous 183 jumps were stand up landings. Guess what? I made a judgemental error thinking that I could surf the landing like I've done time and time again. Unfortunately the ground was harder and stickier than I antiticipated and I crashed. So was I ready to downsize after jump #183 on that canopy? I mean I stood up every one of those other landings? Heck no, I am no where near mastering my canopy, so "NO DOWNSIZE FOR YOU" as heard from the Canopy (Soup) Nazi!!! Hopefully you will survive your Sabre2 170 and hopefully we will see you put hundreds and hundreds of jumps on it before we see you downsize again. I'm no canopy nazi, but I do believe that people need to master their current wing before they downsize. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over
