DB Cooper

[Robert99 37]

RobertMBlevins

I am not the leading expert on aviation, or even an expert at all. What I'm saying is this: How do you put your own work on the flight path above what has been done previously by some very intelligent people?

Blevins, Have you even bothered to read Soderlind's write-up on the radar accuracies he used in coming up with the original jump location? If you have, then why don't you list them here as well as specify the location site of the radar that produced his data?

I am not your nursemaid and I am not going to do your homework for you. Nor am I interested in being your "pen pal".

I am fortunate enough to have "pen pals" who do know what they are talking about and I had rather talk to them.

Robert99

[georger 197]

RobertMBlevins

I am not the leading expert on aviation, or even an expert at all. What I'm saying is this: How do you put your own work on the flight path above what has been done previously by some very intelligent people?

G replies -

You keep referring to "intelligent people". Be "intelligent" for a
change and realise your evaluation/criticism is an empty bag.
You are not in any position to even make an evaluation.

Once again Blevins its all bloviation. You literally dont know what
you're talking about.

I am intelligent enough that I know I can't teach a chicken how
to drive a car ... much less file a report on one!

Chicken Little said the sky was falling! Continually over
thousands of posts! And 500 editorials on Newsvine. He wasn;t
right once.

Could it be that Chicken Little was just plain LAZY ? That would
account for a lot of faking that goes on!

BTW: KC was only trained on static line jumps. Static line
jumping! A long time jumper tells me HALO and allof that did not
come along until Vietnam? Is this true? In any event, KC was
only trained to do statc line jumps - he has seen KC's mil record.
Cooper appears to have had other training ...

[377 21]

Georger wrote

Quote

BTW: KC was only trained on static line jumps. Static line
jumping! A long time jumper tells me HALO and allof that did not
come along until Vietnam? Is this true? In any event, KC was
only trained to do statc line jumps - he has seen KC's mil record.
Cooper appears to have had other training ...

from Wikipedia

Quote

The origins of the HALO technique date back to 1960 when the U.S. Air Force was conducting experiments that followed earlier work by Colonel John Stapp in the late 1940s through early 1950s on survivability factors for high-flying pilots needing to eject at high altitudes.[1] Stapp, a research biophysicist and medical doctor, used himself as a human guinea pig in rocket sled tests to study the effects of very high g-forces. Stapp also resolved many of the issues involved in high altitude flight in his earliest work for the Air Force, and subjected himself to exposure to altitudes of 45,000 feet (14,000 m). Subsequently, he helped develop pressure suits and ejection seats, which have been used in jets ever since.

Although static line jumps and freefall jumps are radically different, S/L jumps used to be the standard training prep for your first freefall solo jump. They didnt have AFF available when I learned in 1968. You did a few S/L jumps, typically a minimum of 5, and then you did a solo hop and pop freefall. You gradually worked up to longer delays as you taught yourself how to freefall stable.

I wouldnt rule out a suspect simply because they had no freefall experience. If you pulled off the 727 steps, it would be very similar to an S/L jump. No tumbling, no spinning. It would look just like the SAT 727 jump videos shot in Thailand. Initial partial inflation, extraction, squidding during canopy opening and then you are under an open canopy.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 197]

RobertMBlevins

******I am not the leading expert on aviation, or even an expert at all. What I'm saying is this: How do you put your own work on the flight path above what has been done previously by some very intelligent people?

Blevins, Have you even bothered to read Soderlind's write-up on the radar accuracies he used in coming up with the original jump location? If you have, then why don't you list them here as well as specify the location site of the radar that produced his data?

I am not your nursemaid and I am not going to do your homework for you. Nor am I interested in being your "pen pal".

I am fortunate enough to have "pen pals" who do know what they are talking about and I had rather talk to them.

Robert99

Well, I'm sure you will let everyone know when you finally prove that Paul Soderlind, the FBI, and the ATC's were all wrong...and you are right...on the subject of the flight path.

Thereby proving Cooper actually jumped several miles to the west of the Interstate.

EDIT: I just thought I'd mention that I'm aware of what Captain Scott allegedly told Himmelsbach on the day of Himmelsbach's retirement, i.e. that the plane WAS farther west than the FBI thought. Now assuming Scott is correct, then two things come to mind.

First, why would Scott wait nine years to mention this rather important point, which goes against both the initial investigation, the Soderlind team's conclusions, and everything else? You would think at some point the FBI would have consulted with either Scott or Rataczak on the map...and NOT nine years later. And one of them would have said: 'Wait...that's wrong. We were more over HERE...'

I've also wondered if the F-106 Delta Dart chase planes launched out of McChord ever got good pings on 305. The F-106 worked with SAGE radar, that is known. Could all of these people be wrong, and nine years later Scott says so? Maybe.

This also begs another question. If Cooper actually DID jump west of Woodland and the freeway (Tena Bar area), then how come the only thing ever found was MONEY? No body, no chutes, no briefcase, absolutely zip except some bills. And conveniently...all in the same spot. Perhaps Cooper did jump where you think he did, but the evidence of the money found does not lend itself well to the idea he died. Maybe it really was a plant after all. Either at the time of the jump, or years later. After all this time, not a single other thing has ever been discovered in that area. Just three packets (approximately) of the money. And if Cooper did that on purpose to cause confusion or make people believe he died in the jump, he certainly accomplished that task in spades.

Well, Blevins this isn't about YOU!

Them vs ME!

I think you are Big Mac deprived.

Oh and REED THE THRED! Your ignorance of the whole purpose
of thread is showing. This aint Newsvine!

Or just be LAZY.

[Robert99 37]

RobertMBlevins

The F-106 worked with SAGE radar, that is known.

Blevins, What is your source for the above statement? Where were the SAGE radar antennas located?

On the Soderlind matter again, Soderlind had reportedly worked up his estimate of the jump point before the airliner even landed in Reno.

Robert99

[377 21]

Robert99

***The F-106 worked with SAGE radar, that is known.

Blevins, What is your source for the above statement? Where were the SAGE radar antennas located?

On the Soderlind matter again, Soderlind had reportedly worked up his estimate of the jump point before the airliner even landed in Reno.

Robert99

Quote

from Wikipedia...The F-106 was envisaged as specialized all-weather missile armed interceptor to shoot down bombers. It was complemented by other Century Series fighters for other roles such as daylight air superiority or fighter-bombing. To support its role, the F-106 was equipped with the Hughes MA-1 integrated fire-control system, which could be linked to the Semi-Automatic Ground Environment (SAGE) network for ground control interception (GCI) missions, allowing the aircraft to be steered by controllers. The MA-1 proved extremely troublesome and was eventually upgraded more than 60 times in service.

I worked at Hughes, the company that made the F 106's MA-1 fire control system. I can tell you that the MA-1 and its bidirectional SAGE data link had serious reliability problems. To me it was no surprise that the F 106s were unable to find the NWA 727 if they were relying on the data link with SAGE. I'll bet it wasn't working. Hughes did over 60 patches to try to improve reliability. The goal of a robust reliable low MBTO MA-1 system was never realized. In one version, it used an 8 KB rotating magnetic drum as its hard drive. Yes, EIGHT K. Imagine how good the programmers had to be.

When the MA-1 worked it was an amazingly capable system. The SAGE controllers could take over control of the F 106 through its data link coupled autopilot and fly it to a target intercept. It essentially put a ground based large aperture networked radar system into an aircraft. Looking up at airborne radar targets is MUCH better than looking down. No ground clutter interference.

Want more detail? http://www.f-106deltadart.com/sage_system.htm

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[MarkBennett 5]

RobertMBlevins

It would be interesting to check missing-person reports on white males between 11/24/1971 and say, 1/15/1972, limiting it to residents of Oregon and Washington to start. A tough job, though. But if Cooper is dead, that's probably where you would find him.

Robert, this was checked out by the FBI and there have been posts on it. Tom Kaye posted several months ago about a Canadian who disappeared about that time. And -- Vicki please correct me on this if I'm wrong -- Mel Wilson is only talked about as a potential suspect because he disappeared shortly before the hijacking.

[377 21]

The F 106 B 727 speed mismatch excuse for an intercept failure is suspect. The F 106 was a fast interceptor (Mach 2 plus at higher altitudes) but it could fly a pattern at reasonable speeds. Even the ultra fast SR 71 could fly a landing pattern at speeds reasonably compatable with normal jet aircraft (stall speed 150 knots if light on fuel at the end of a mission). I'm not buying the speed excuse for the F 106 intercept failure. I'll bet it was an MA-1 failure.

Stall speed on a dirty F 106 was about 107 knots. They would have had no trouble flying at 150-170. If they were going too fast and were overshooting the 727 S turns would have solved the problem.

The lumbering C 130 cargo ship from McChord found and tracked the NWA 727 with no airborne intercept radar, no SAGE data link, just good airmanship.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[EVickiW 0]

MarkBennett

***It would be interesting to check missing-person reports on white males between 11/24/1971 and say, 1/15/1972, limiting it to residents of Oregon and Washington to start. A tough job, though. But if Cooper is dead, that's probably where you would find him.

Robert, this was checked out by the FBI and there have been posts on it. Tom Kaye posted several months ago about a Canadian who disappeared about that time. And -- Vicki please correct me on this if I'm wrong -- Mel Wilson is only talked about as a potential suspect because he disappeared shortly before the hijacking.

Yes, he disappeared September 15, 1971.

With help from NAMUS and an advocate. We contacted a deputy from the Dane County Sheriff to write a missing persons report. Apparently, one was never completed as he was not missing, but he was a fugitive from justice.

https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/15178/56/

DNA samples were taken from my brother and myself and are on file at NAMUS. Mel's fingerprints were also uploaded into their system. Problem is the DNA only runs on the missing person side of the CODIS database and not on the criminal side. The only way to compare it to Cooper's would be a FBI agent asking for the DNA makeup from NAMUS.

Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs

[skyjack71 0]

377

Jo wrote

Quote

Who would work on Signal towers and VOR's and have knowledge of every darn airstrip along our route? What would that persons employment have been.

Jo, you are trying to see a pattern in noise. The small airstrips without FAA operated Navaids wouldn't get any attention from the techs who work on VORs. Many of those so called "signal towers" had nothing to do with aircraft navigation.

Cooper had no means by which to use VOR signals for planning his exit point. You keep coming back to VORs but they had no utility for Cooper.

377

All I am trying to do is find how these things might be connected. How was Weber connect to these things if the things were NOT some way connected themselves.


HOW and WHAT and WHEN Weber could have gained his knowledge of the places....How long would he have had to be in the area and how would one obtain this information if they had NOT lived and worked in the area for quiet sometime.

VOR's, Airstrips, Bars, Signal Towers or Towers of any description with LIGHTs on them, cemetaries, jump fields, gravel pits, remote bodies of water, rivers, Camp Bonneville (an everything on its campus), The Dalles, Washougal, Government Camps (both WA and OR), Golden dale, Trout Lake, Yakima (the boys moving heavy equiptment), Hood River, Beacon Rock, Yakama Indian Reservation, Bonneville, Mount Hood & a goverment camp there, Vancouver, Longview, St. Helens, Ape Cave, Lake Merwin, Battleground, towers - all over the place, All of the power lines & pipelines, Tacoma, Longbeach & Chinook (he mentioned a beach in this area the BOY used to go to.

He knew his way around without a map, Snohomish (mentioned a sheriff there), he made comments about these place all the way to BC borderline although he turned around and headed back to Seattle on that the free day when we ventured North of Seattle I do NOT remember at what point we turned around and headed back to Seattle. I have lost that memory.

He mentions a road that went to Intercity another place the boys flew in and out of. He mentions a camp on a road going to an Indian Reservation and Spokane and again mentiones the Boys. He talks about building a camp/mobil home park on a river up there.

I naturally though he has spent quiet a few yrs in the area...but, I asked no questions and this was the first he had every exposed of his life prior to me. He seemed to have GOOD memories - not bad ones of the area. Why I thought it was from his childhood.

He did tell me that one of his prior wives had a son stationed in Bellingham, but we did NOT go that far. It was about a 3 hour trip and we didn't even stop. As usual he had his foot to the metal. WE had an event to go to that evening.

That one was the night he claimed he was taking a short cut - to get to the location of the banquet - and it was NOT a short cut, but the back side of the airport. This was when he slowed down and stated "I don't remember that fence" Odd thing to state.

Yrs later I learn from this thread and see the pictures from 1971 and where the plane was pulled into in Seattle. There was a wooden fence in 1971 and in 1979 there was a wire fence. Only then did I understand WHY he made that statement. He even pointed out a building that used to be a motel and now was office building.

I never found out when the change was made from Motel to Office building. It was a straight forward 2 story motel type building which had been converted...you could see the top of it on the next road.

Well, I drifted away from the reason of the post. Just how did Duane know all of these places - he definitely was remote viewing as Bruce talks about - Duane had lived and breathed and worked in the area and for a rather lenthy time.

Why I asked the question - what line of WORK involved his knowledge of Vor's, airstrips, pipeline, powerlines and all of the area specific things he knew 1st hand?

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

377

Jo wrote

Quote

Who would work on Signal towers and VOR's and have knowledge of every darn airstrip along our route? What would that persons employment have been.

Jo, you are trying to see a pattern in noise. The small airstrips without FAA operated Navaids wouldn't get any attention from the techs who work on VORs. Many of those so called "signal towers" had nothing to do with aircraft navigation.

Cooper had no means by which to use VOR signals for planning his exit point. You keep coming back to VORs but they had no utility for Cooper.

377

I did not say it had anything to do with the skyjacking. I want to know what occupation might have involved working in all of the listed locations and their connections to each other.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[georger 197]

MarkBennett

***It would be interesting to check missing-person reports on white males between 11/24/1971 and say, 1/15/1972, limiting it to residents of Oregon and Washington to start. A tough job, though. But if Cooper is dead, that's probably where you would find him.

Robert, this was checked out by the FBI and there have been posts on it. Tom Kaye posted several months ago about a Canadian who disappeared about that time. And -- Vicki please correct me on this if I'm wrong -- Mel Wilson is only talked about as a potential suspect because he disappeared shortly before the hijacking.

I thought the Mel story was a bit more compelling? Mel was a
forger. He made phony currency. He got spooked in Sept of
1971 and ran, and in the process dumped some $200,000 in fake
currency and plates into a river. Cooper demanded $200,000 in
ransom. And the Gray sketch/description of Cooper provided by
one passenger looks a lot like Mel, so some say ?

Mel having dumped about $200k in fake currency is documented.
That might give a forger a grudge?

Mel has not been seen since.

[skyjack71 0]

Robert99

Jo, Radar positions were not as accurate in the early 1970s as you apparently believe. The write-up with the original predicted jump area discusses those accuracies.

The only VOR in the Portland area that defines V-23 is the Battleground VORTAC. In 1971, the Battleground VORTAC was known as the Portland VORTAC and located in exactly the same geographical position. The FAA just changed the name, everything else about it stayed the same.

Robert99

That answer was as I expected and I already knew the answer, but what I wanted to find out was WHY Duane specifically took me there and mentioned the VOR and talked about THE GUYS working there - he was referring I believe to the construction of the VOR. Basically in the same breath he mention the little airstrip just north of there. Evidently one has nothing to do with the other, but what I am getting at WHO built the VORS and when was the Battleground VOR constructed and what technology did the guys have to possess to set these thing up.

In other words I am looking for answers as to who The Guys were and how Duane could have had knowledge or have been involved with that particual VOR. Did AWARE build it?

That one is a shot in the dark as the only thing I know they did build was runways - lots of military contracts.

Just trying my best to understand HOW Duane obtained the information he had and how he was even connected to WA - which he obviously was even though the FBI denies any connections of Duane to WA other than his passing thru McNeil in 1945.

Duane Weber was arrested in the Spokane area prior to 1950!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[377 21]

Jo,

Once a VOR station is built it usually only needs periodic attention from FAA navaid technicians.

These electronics techs would have no work related interest in small uncontrolled airports with no FAA navaids (ILS, VOR, marker beacons etc).

A pilot who regularly flew in that area might know most of the strips and where the VOR station was sited.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[skyjack71 0]

377

Jo,

Once a VOR station is built it usually only needs periodic attention from FAA navaid technicians.

These electronics techs would have no work related interest in small uncontrolled airports with no FAA navaids (ILS, VOR, marker beacons etc).

A pilot who regularly flew in that area might know most of the strips and where the VOR station was sited.

377

Perhaps I did NOT make myself CLEAR. Duane mentioned the building of the VOR....its original installation. I need to know - WHO did the Construction and then the Installation of the equipment. We had already passed it so I did NOT actually see it, but it was there.

HOW was Weber involved with THE BOYS who built it or installed it & its working components? WHAT yr was it built and what were the working date regarding maintence...what company did the maintence of the equipment?
What company built the VOR. Was it AWARE?

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[mrshutter45 21]

what Robert Blevins doesn't seem to understand is fact of the path being put together in a rush. this is where mistakes can and will happen. I can't tell you if the FP is 100% accurate, or 100% inaccurate. we have a gap between the flight path and the FBI. we have bits a pieces of how it was put together. the computer cards are either missing, or no longer around. we have reports from different key people telling different stories.

the radio transcripts do not tell all. lots of gaps in them where transmissions surely took place. 8:10 to 8:20 and only one transmission? they had to have been talking up a storm from 8:10 to 9:00 in my opinion.

people make mistakes. we have a guy who jumped out of a plane. they originally thought it was close to Merwin Lake. this has now changed. that should be proof right there that even smart guys make mistakes. by not understanding the facts surrounding how the path was made, the sage radar issues, time frames not matching. you have to start thinking something is wrong. the times frames are incorrect and impossible right out of the gate with getting 14 miles DME in the time frame they report.

I was always wondering about the flight path, but, didn't have enough knowledge about it. I feel I have a stronger grip now more than others after studying the path, radar etc. I have uncovered the start time I believe the plane took off at, and can make the time frame given to the Toledo area. the only thing that doesn't match is the 14 miles DME. the second part of the leg I am having trouble matching. this is due to the weather system functioning improperly which is probably giving inaccurate times between Toledo and Merwin. if the winds aloft are incorrect, you get a different ending time. this is where I came to the conclusion the system was not up to par for this course.

any cop will tell you when they pick up a cold case they must go through all the evidence making sure no mistakes were made. there seems to be clues pointing to faults in the path. by simply stating that it couldn't be wrong based on the backgrounds of who made the path is failing to see the real picture, or the possibility of something going wrong. this is a good starting point from where the crime started. right after it took off. that's where you start looking. IMO the same goes for who Cooper is. you start with the description. if it doesn't match, you must start looking elsewhere.

I realize the start of the crime took place just after taking off from Portland, but, the plane could have done 14 loops and stopped at Denny's and got a hamburger for Cooper before it landed at SEA. the actual crime started once they were back in the air after meeting his demands. IMO this is where the crime started.

I get teased that I am only on a game, but, this system is not a game. the dynamics a very close to the real thing. I'm flying a plane designed for three. I'm all alone up there lol. the new system will have two people running it. it has whats called a ISO Instructors Operating Station. this person will be able to act as the co-pilot and control the weather. this can be done with someone here, or someone over the internet. it has a black box that will record the data put into it and can be printed out. I also have a normal life just as many other people have. I can't put this together over night. there have been many bumps along the road with computers, software and spare time learning how to fly. I enjoy ever second of this project and have a really cool simulator that easily transforms into a race car if I feel the need for speed

I believe I'm done now (applause) ...Hey, I heard some Boo's in there

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[Robert99 37]

RobertMBlevins

Eight kilobytes? Whoa...even the Apollo 11 guys got 74KB to work with. Did you know you can even build your own Apollo Guidance Computer? Instructions are HERE. But the hardware will cost you about 3,000KB. Er, I mean dollars.

On those F-106's, I was just wondering if they got any radar hits on 305. I know they had trouble following it because they were going so fast, and the 727 soooo slow.

Blevins, Please remind me again why you have so much confidence in the so-called FBI flight path?

Robert99

[Robert99 37]

RobertMBlevins

No boos from me on your current work regarding the flight path. I know you've invested both your own money and a lot of time working on that project.

Why doesn't someone call Rataczak and ASK about the flight path? People wanted me to do it. But, I don't feel good about doing that because I am the one who has accused a former NWA employee of being a crook. I'm not sure if Rataczak cares about that...I mean he did talk to Porteous and KC was discussed...but I just don't feel comfortable doing it.

This question needs to be asked of Rataczak by a pilot. Rataczak is in the phone book. However...be warned. He screens the calls heavily. If he doesn't recognize your name on that Caller ID, he's not going to pick up. So you should be prepared with a short message when you call. I would just go for the obvious, which is to say you have a quick question about the flight path of 305. Rataczak told Porteous that he has been doing his own research on the hijacking for years, which means he is still interested in the case.

I'm also going to suggest someone NEUTRAL make the call. That means not Robert99, not Bruce Smith, and not me. An outside pilot with little or no interest in the Cooper case. Robert99 or Shutter probably know someone. I don't even care if Shutter makes the call, since I consider him the most neutral of anyone here who is actively working on this problem with the flight path.

What is the One Big Question for Rataczak?

Was Flight 305 WEST of the path shown on the FBI's official map? Especially north of Portland or in the Woodland/Vancouver area.

Blevins, As reported on this thread several dozen times previously, Rataczak has made a public statement within the last year or two that he is the ONLY one who knows which side of Portland the airliner was on when it went by.

Does that sound like a ringing endorsement for the "official flight path"?

Robert99

[skyjack71 0]

YOU GUYS have been very busy. Some VERY interesting conversations going on, but if anyone has the information I need please post it.

I have some tests tomorrow and my time here is 7:20 PM and I do NOT feel very well at all. I have a TEST tomorrow, but the way I feel right this moment - I could be in the ER before the night is out. My last experience with the ER in my locality was not good. Hopefully I will feel better in a little while and if I do I will check to see if anyone has the answer to my stupid old question.

Really do NOT want to interfer with what you guys are doing - but, it sound like you all are really making some progress. People like myself and Blevins need to sit out for awhile.

The Question and the Reason.
Duane mentioned the building of the VOR....its original installation. I need to know - WHO did the Construction and then the Installation of the equipment.

Was Weber involved with THE BOYS who built it or installed it & its working components? WHAT yr was it built and what were the working dates regarding maintence? What company did the maintence of the equipment?
What company built the VOR? Was it AWARE?

Thank You, if I don't check back in later on tonight for the answer, I will when I feel like it. Unusual for me to be posting this early so you know that I am NOT feeling well. Going to wait for awhile before I take a pain pill because sometimes lieing down helps.
Do NOT like how those thing affect me - after all I am a tough Cookie!

BYE

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[377 21]

Jo,

Couldnt find the build date for the Battleground VORTAC (which used to be the Portland VOR I think).

If I had to guess I'd say mid to late 1950s.

This might lead you to further info:

Quote

1947: CAA commissioned the first very high frequency omnidirectional radio ranges (VORs). During 1946, the agency had applied wartime technology on an experimental basis when it converted eight radio range stations on the New York and Chicago airway to VOR omnirange stations (see May 1, 1941). As a result of those tests, CAA adopted the VHF omnirange for standard use and began general installation of the new system in 1947.

Oct 15-21, 1950: During this seven-day period, CAA put into operation the first omnirange (VOR) airways (see Calendar Year 1947). Although 271 omniranges had already been commissioned in different parts of the United States, this marked the initial designation of a chain of these ranges as a controlled airway. The new routes, approximately 4,380 miles long, linked such major terminals as Kansas City, Denver, Albuquerque, El Paso, Omaha, and Oklahoma City. (Jun 1, 1952.) During fiscal year 1951, CAA began enhancing the VOR airways with distance measuring equipment (DME) to assist in low visibility approaches.


http://www.faa.gov/education/educator_resources/curriculum/wright_brothers/media/bharris.pdf

1946 U.S. Civil Aeronautics Administration (CAA) introduces VHF omni directional radio range (VOR) stations, enabling pilots to stay on course by watching a needle on their instrument panel


http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/flight_info/avn/flightinspection/fihistory/

The VOR was under steady development since 1937 and first deemed practical in late 1943. The creation of a rotating radiation pattern transmitted simultaneously with a stable reference signal created an unlimited number of possible courses and made true multi-course VHF navigation a reality. A frequency range of 112 to 118 MHz was set aside for the new navaid. The old four-course radio range was instantly made obsolete with the perfection of the VOR. Widespread installation of the VOR system in the U.S. began after the war and continued into the 1950s. When the first VOR airway was established in 1951, over 271 VOR units had been installed and commissioned. By June 1, 1952 over 45,000 miles of airways utilizing the VOR were in operation.

From an aviation blog.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[mrshutter45 21]

RobertMBlevins

******Eight kilobytes? Whoa...even the Apollo 11 guys got 74KB to work with. Did you know you can even build your own Apollo Guidance Computer? Instructions are HERE. But the hardware will cost you about 3,000KB. Er, I mean dollars.

On those F-106's, I was just wondering if they got any radar hits on 305. I know they had trouble following it because they were going so fast, and the 727 soooo slow.

Blevins, Please remind me again why you have so much confidence in the so-called FBI flight path?

Robert99

How many times do I have to answer the same darn question???

Because some very smart folks worked on it, and because I haven't seen any proof yet it is wrong. See post above. I think Shutter should just call Rataczak and ask. Under the right conditions, he will talk to people.


you have a gap in your logic Robert. the case is unsolved anyway you look at it. some smart guys did the flight path. last time I checked, some very smart guys work for the FBI and have a description of Cooper. the smart guys came to a conclusion of the best fit. you want to go against the smart guys in your case, but, not on anything else that doesn't include your findings? I'll admit the composite might be off more than the description. there must be some sort of guideline to follow. it just makes the suspect pool larger and larger. I'm sure the description was discussed more than just the evening of the crime. as we know, these guys are not half as stupid as people think they are. there are reasons they don't turn there heads at a suspect based on what has been found years later. it's the evidence that we don't know that tells them who to look for IMO.

I would like to speak to Rataczak, but his wife is ill. I don't feel like intruding into his life at this moment. perhaps I will send him a letter rather than calling. if he tells me something different than the original flight path. what do we do? there will have to be two separate paths flown. which will bring us back to something wrong with the first path....correct. this is what people are trying to explain to you.

I think it's a lot easier looking into this when you don't have a suspect in mind. this fogs the judgment IMO. Jo will never accept anything other than what she concludes. I don't know who did it. I would like to find out. this is the best starting point IMO...

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[smokin99 0]

This is an interview with Soderlind. Has nothing to do with Cooper, but I thought the section on the Turbulence Plot system, accompanying images, and it's usage by NW pilots was interesting.

http://www.avweb.com/news/profiles/182945-1.html?redirected=1

MrShutter - you might also find this article interesting if you ever go into a death spira in your simulations. :) http://www.avweb.com/news/airman/184306-1.html?redirected=1

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[mrshutter45 21]

"It's almost like you're afriad of what he might say."

let's be a little realistic here Robert. I'm not afraid of anything he would say. I just told you a letter would be the best result. I would like this option. not anyone else. I would touch base with him first of all. I would then explain my project to him. I wouldn't jump right into asking a million things from him.

the main goal here is to see if the path can match the time frames. if we find other options such as Rataczak stating a different version. two different paths will be plotted out. we could possibly find answers between the two. thats if his reply differs greatly with the known path. I'm not going to send him a quiz. I think this would interest him enough to call me. I know you are trying to help,but, do not do anything without consulting me if it has anything to do with my project.

any outside information dealing with the original flight path will be skewed. as mentioned above. if we find out later the path is different according to the guy who flew the plane. we will then no longer have the original flight path. so, once again we fly the path the way the FBI believes it to be, and has been this way for 40+ years. then compare it to what Rataczak and possibly other sources tell us and make a separate path. this way both are verified.

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[mrshutter45 21]

smokin99

This is an interview with Soderlind. Has nothing to do with Cooper, but I thought the section on the Turbulence Plot system, accompanying images, and it's usage by NW pilots was interesting.

http://www.avweb.com/news/profiles/182945-1.html?redirected=1

MrShutter - you might also find this article interesting if you ever go into a death spira in your simulations. :) http://www.avweb.com/news/airman/184306-1.html?redirected=1

Interesting stuff. thanks..... (TDS) they make it sound like a disease

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[BruceSmith 3]

...Shutter: If you make the call and he calls you back, take notes. And if you say Rataczak says this or that...I will believe that is what he said. Believe it or not, I do trust your word that anything you quote from Rataczak would be accurate.


Reply-

Robert, why do you have so much confidence that Mr. Rataczak will tell Mr. Shutter the truth?

Rataczak's public comments suggest otherwise.

Bill told me directly that he didn't know where 305 was that night; yet, Himmelsbach told me that Bill told him that the plane was over the Washougal. Further, retired SA Gary Tallis told me and the 2011 DB Cooper symposium that he spent a great part of his two week surveillance effort in an FBI heliocpter over the Washougal watershed area, which supports Himmelsbach's contention of a fly-over in that area.

In light of the modest ground serach in the Ariel LZ on the Thanksgiving Day weekend following the skyjacking, it also suggests that the promotion of an Ariel LZ was a deception to keep the public out of the real LZ further east.

Yet, Jo says that Rataczak told her that 305 was closer to V-23 and saw the lights of Portland and Vancouver coming up as he approached the WA-OR border.

As a result, we have at least three different perspectives from Rataczak -

1. I don't know.
2. Washougal
3. V-23

So, when, and to whom, does Bill Rataczak tell the truth and when does he obfuscate? Or are Jo and Himms misquoting Bill? If so, why didn't he tell me whatever it was that he told them. "I don't know," is pretty hard to miscontrue into Washougal or Portland/Vancouver.

Lastly, why do you think Bill Rataczak doesn't return any of my phone calls or emails? Because he doesn't like me? Or, are my questions simply too challenging?

When did "being nice" become a prerequisite for truth telling?