DB Cooper

[georger 197]

RobertMBlevins

I think the Seattle FBI should answer THIS question:

How did the Seattle FBI come to the conclusion that the Amboy parachute was made of silk, and did their lab actually do any work on it as they have claimed in press releases? I'm really surprised I seem to be the only one to question their results.

First, they said it probably belonged to Marine pilot Lt. Floyd Walling, who jumped out nearby in December 1945. PROBLEM: The chute was manufactured the following year.

Second, they said publicly that the chute was being examined by the Seattle FBI's lab. This was released on a Thursday. PROBLEM: The next day they stuffed it into the trunk of a car and drove up to Woodinville to let Earl Cossey have a look. He says it can't be Cooper's on the sole reason that it's silk, and not ripstop nylon. No real mention is made of type of chute, size, or any other details. A picture is posted of the chute with an FBI agent standing next to it, but no technical details are EVER released about it.

Third, the Seattle FBI has admitted that no other outside experts were actually allowed to examine the chute, only Cossey. Any 'experts' were consulted only by phone.

Fourth, the Citizen Sleuths have openly expressed an interest in examining the chute, but no one from the FBI has responded, even though they were allowed all of the other available evidence.

Fifth, inquiries about the Amboy Chute to the FBI are ignored, and no other information has ever been released about it.

Sixth, if the Seattle FBI had to admit through examination and research from actual experts that the Amboy Chute was indeed Cooper's - this would negate the official stance they've taken since the Tena Bar money was found: That Cooper died in the jump.

Finally, the only person the FBI relied on (*in reality*) to identify the Amboy Chute was beaten to death in his own garage and so far a suspect in his death has not been discovered.

Don't you believe that the Seattle FBI should now be a bit more forthcoming on this issue? I do.
But that's just me.

Keep working to invent more backstories you can milk ...

[mrshutter45 21]

there is no proof it was in the ground for 40+ years. I think amazon could answer that question better. I would think if you put a white sock in the ground for a year or two, it wouldn't be white coming out?

can you show where the FBI claimed it was from the missing pilot?

source, please....

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[Robert99 37]

RobertMBlevins

Some of this stuff is mentioned in my upcoming book Cooperland. I haven't actually researched these points on the money too much . . .

Blevins, Have YOU researched anything that will appear in your upcoming book? Or, are you just copying posts from this thread? Citing your own post as "research" will not get the job done.

Robert99

[mrshutter45 21]

Robert99

***

Some of this stuff is mentioned in my upcoming book Cooperland. I haven't actually researched these points on the money too much . . .

Blevins, Have YOU researched anything that will appear in your upcoming book? Or, are you just copying posts from this thread? Citing your own post as "research" will not get the job done.

Robert99


no word yet on the Death cert?

no answers here either.....

conflictions...according to Blevins Company E, Third Parachute Training Regiment. Sent to Pacific Theater later, but war was ending by the time he got there, assigned to duty in Occupied Japan, in the city of Fukuoka.

according to Gray: "Kenny trained with 11th Airborne Division, the Angels, which had been sent to the Pacific. But he never saw combat. When he was finally deployed, on August 16, 1945, his discharge papers show, the war was over. He ended up in Japan, joining the initial occupation forces".


http://www.ww2-airborne.us/18corps/11abn/11_overview.html


"I've looked up 11th airborne rosters before but have never found KC's name."

"I still have not found any record of KC being ASSIGNED to any ABN DIV, maybe he was only attached?"

" proof that he was a paratrooper has never been presented though it's been asked since the beginning."

"Or ask Geoffrey Gray in an email. He was the first to mention Christiansen's service publicly, not me. Always go to the original source." I think the original source would be the US Army?

does anyone see a problem here that needs proper documentation?

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[377 21]

Jo wrote

Quote

I have not been able to drink in several yrs because alcohol accelerates the symptoms. I won't be there. Of course some Seagrams and/or another good scotch to toast Duane.

SCOTCH??? Jo, as a KY girl you know that's a no no. It has to be Bourbon. What would people think if they saw you drinking Scotch in Marion County KY? You'd be run out of town.

I know I am speaking for many others here when I say that I hope that your health improves.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 21]

I don't think the Amboy canopy (made of twill weave material, not rip stop) was DBC's but it remains a puzzling mystery. What lies beneath the ground? The canopy suspension lines couldn't be pulled completely out so they were cut. The risers, which may lie beneath the ground, could give a lot of useful info. If they had Capewell cutaway fittings that would tell us something. If the chute had no risers and the link fittings between the lines and the risers were not present that would tell us something. It's sure worth a dig.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 197]

RobertMBlevins

******I think the Seattle FBI should answer THIS question:

How did the Seattle FBI come to the conclusion that the Amboy parachute was made of silk, and did their lab actually do any work on it as they have claimed in press releases? I'm really surprised I seem to be the only one to question their results.

First, they said it probably belonged to Marine pilot Lt. Floyd Walling, who jumped out nearby in December 1945. PROBLEM: The chute was manufactured the following year.

Second, they said publicly that the chute was being examined by the Seattle FBI's lab. This was released on a Thursday. PROBLEM: The next day they stuffed it into the trunk of a car and drove up to Woodinville to let Earl Cossey have a look. He says it can't be Cooper's on the sole reason that it's silk, and not ripstop nylon. No real mention is made of type of chute, size, or any other details. A picture is posted of the chute with an FBI agent standing next to it, but no technical details are EVER released about it.

Third, the Seattle FBI has admitted that no other outside experts were actually allowed to examine the chute, only Cossey. Any 'experts' were consulted only by phone.

Fourth, the Citizen Sleuths have openly expressed an interest in examining the chute, but no one from the FBI has responded, even though they were allowed all of the other available evidence.

Fifth, inquiries about the Amboy Chute to the FBI are ignored, and no other information has ever been released about it.

Sixth, if the Seattle FBI had to admit through examination and research from actual experts that the Amboy Chute was indeed Cooper's - this would negate the official stance they've taken since the Tena Bar money was found: That Cooper died in the jump.

Finally, the only person the FBI relied on (*in reality*) to identify the Amboy Chute was beaten to death in his own garage and so far a suspect in his death has not been discovered.

Don't you believe that the Seattle FBI should now be a bit more forthcoming on this issue? I do.
But that's just me.

Keep working to invent more backstories you can milk ...

Hayden has said that he never saw the inside of either container the entire time he owned those chutes. Now...someone obviously took a look at the chute that exists. You can see that in the picture. It's white. As far as the tan color of the chute held by the FBI, I wonder if it could have taken on the color due to being buried for forty years in the cold, wet ground of Washington state. Who knows? Or maybe it was never white at all. Also...the two chutes from Hayden were NOT identical. Who said that? One was the Pioneer sport, the other was a canopy packed inside an NB-6. And as I said, Hayden told me personally that he never saw inside it, never used it, and was not around when it was repacked by Cossey. And I have not seen any statements by Cossey saying that it was a white canopy. The NB-6, I mean.

As far as milking, I'm not the only one here who has gone off ad infinitum on minute details regarding the hijacking. Many of these details, even if they were settled, would get you no closer to solving the case.

And yes...mention of, and questions about the Amboy chute are discussed in my upcoming book. It's covered in much more detail than I have ever presented here. It relies heavily on FBI statements and actions regarding the chute, a detailed timeline, and all available media articles on it. Chapter six.

Blevin's blunders:

1. "Im leaving the DZ now."
2. "I'm not interested in DB Cooper that much, I have other
things to do."
3. " I'll be talking with Bill Rataczak on the phone tonight."
4. "Show me your sources."
5. "I'll be contacting KC's doctor by tomorrow."
6. "I'll have the death certificate of KC's in a day or two."
7. "My life isn't about DB Cooper."
8. "Bruce Smith needs to learn more fundamentals about
journalism."
9. "I've got more important things to do than talk about DB
Cooper."
10. "My book on DB Cooper is not the largest seller at AB."
11. "Everytime Georger gets nasty with me, I sell more books."
12. "I have edited over 500 books."
13. "My life does not revolve around DB Cooper."
14. "Research it yourself."
15. "I'm very respectful to the FBI, and am always courteous
with them."
16. "What? You trust the FBI?"
17. "Call Lyle yourself."
18. "Skipp Porteous now lives in CA."
19. "Galen Cook's witnesses are in it for the money."
20. "Seriously, I spend very little time on the subject of DB
Cooper."
21. "I'm leaving the DZ for awhile."
22. "My favorite quote in the film is......."
23. "I don't like to waste my time responding to people
like......."
24. "Your proofs, please. I want to see your evidence."
25. "I'm taking a vacation now.............."
26. "Trust me".
27. "Gray emailed me and said he didn't say what I said."
28. "Trust me".
29. "Lyle never gave any interviews".
30. "Kenny wasn't gay. Trust me!".

[georger 197]

Amazon

Since the building of Bonneville Dam.. the lower river is pretty much controlled by how my electricity is being generated. The majority of the homes built since the Depression had electric heat as does mine. Usually in the coldest weather the flow is increased by all that electricity being generated to
heat everyones homes... just the nature of the beast. Again.. in all the years I have played and lived on the Columbia River... I have never seen ice flows.. let alone anyones ability to go ice fishing. I remember ice fishing and driving out onto lakes... and I have not seen anyone stupid enough to try that out here in Washington.
( I grew up in a climatologically ABUSIVE Family.... they made me spend winters in WISCONSIN... and then would ship me off to Florida for a nice long hot muggy summer)

As you know the COLDEST water.. floats( it's called ice.. the most DENSE water at 40 degrees F is at the bottom of the pools behind the dam. The water that goes thru the turbines is not the surface water. In the main stem.. not the little sloughs, you will not find ice.

You are correct. Daily temp data 1970-1980 does not support
the idea of much ice in the Portland area, and certainly not
sustained periods of icing (hard deep ice). See attached.

There was only one sutained period where ice could even form
in the Portland area; from Dec through January 1978 and the
lowest temp during that period is 14F, flanked by temps in the
20s and mid 30s.

Every period where ice could form briefly 1970-1980, is flanked
by extended periods of much higher temperatures where any ice
established would quickly melt, not to mention rain also during
the same period.

This data does not seem to support the idea that ice was a
factor in conveying much of anything, in the Portland to Tina Bar
area of the Columbia (1970-1980) ???

[sailshaw 0]

Georger

You are getting as bad as Blevins at reading and understanding what others write.

You Say: "Hayden has said that he never saw the inside of either container the entire time he owned those chutes. Now...someone obviously took a look at the chute that exists. You can see that in the picture. It's white. As far as the tan color of the chute held by the FBI, I wonder if it could have taken on the color due to being buried for forty years in the cold, wet ground of Washington state. Who knows? Or maybe it was never white at all. Also...the two chutes from Hayden were NOT identical. Who said that? One was the Pioneer sport, the other was a canopy packed inside an NB-6. And as I said, Hayden told me personally that he never saw inside it, never used it, and was not around when it was repacked by Cossey. And I have not seen any statements by Cossey saying that it was a white canopy. The NB-6, I mean."

I say again: The two chutes that Hayden provided were exactly the same and bought at the same time from the Surplus Store by the Boeing DC Plant per Hayden. The carriers were not the same and were added after the purchase. Both chutes were packed by Cossey. Hayden may never had looked at the chutes after they were packed in their carriers but Bruce pulled some of the chute out that was packed in the container returned to Hayden after Norjak. Bruce took a photo (see attachment) of the small amount he could pull out and it is easy to see that it is white and is ripstop (the cross hatching reinforcement squares that keep it from tearing). So, who said the two chutes were alike? Norm Hayden the owner and purchaser of the two chutes
The one chute that DB Cooper used was just like the one now in the Tacoma Museum which is white ripstop.
There is no way the Amboy chute is the one used in the skyjacking as not only is it not white but is not ripstop but is twill per Mark 377.

So, once again the Amboy chute is ruled out on not being made of white ripstop. Cossey may have called it silk as a joke but it dosen't matter he called it correctly that it was not the Cooper chute. Cossey verified that with me over the phone before he was killed. He would not discuss why he mentioned it was silk.

If Blevins tries to put the Amboy chute in his new book as being the Cooper chute, it will be just another Blevins Blunder.

Bob Sailshaw
[email protected]

PS Note the Bruce Smith photo of Hayden wearing the parachute returned to him by the FBI after Norjak.

[Robert99 37]

RobertMBlevins

I have interviewed Hayden twice by phone. He said both times he never saw what was inside his containers. He said he didn't even want to wear a chute, but that it was required once he started doing acrobatic flying.

Blevins, To the best of my memory, a parachute was NOT required for doing acrobatic flying in the early 1970s EXCEPT in certain situations.

If you were flying your own plane solo and not-for-profit, then no parachute was required. If you were carrying paying passengers and doing acrobatics, then a parachute was required for each person on board.

Generally speaking for sports aviation, if you were interested in staying alive, then a parachute was a very good idea. If not, then no need for one. For sports contests with airplanes, the organizer usually required a parachute.

Robert99

[georger 197]

sailshaw

Georger

You are getting as bad as Blevins at reading and understanding what others write.

You Say: "Hayden has said that he never saw the inside of either container the entire time he owned those chutes. Now...someone obviously took a look at the chute that exists. You can see that in the picture. It's white. As far as the tan color of the chute held by the FBI, I wonder if it could have taken on the color due to being buried for forty years in the cold, wet ground of Washington state. Who knows? Or maybe it was never white at all. Also...the two chutes from Hayden were NOT identical. Who said that? One was the Pioneer sport, the other was a canopy packed inside an NB-6. And as I said, Hayden told me personally that he never saw inside it, never used it, and was not around when it was repacked by Cossey. And I have not seen any statements by Cossey saying that it was a white canopy. The NB-6, I mean."

G REPLIES:

You have the wrong guy. I didnt say the above in fact Ive barely
said anything about the Amboy chute or Hayden etc ... in the history of this thread.

This must be a Blevins quote above. Blevins cross-posts so one
doesnt know sometimes who said what or where something is
coming from.

Address the cross poster Blevins on this.

Or, say nothing ... because as long as Blevins is here this is all a fruitless discussion, ie. there is no discussion, just Blevination-
bloviation daily/hourly....

good luck. I personally see your points and have never argued with you about it. I know nothing about thsse "shoots".

[georger 197]

RobertMBlevins

******

I have interviewed Hayden twice by phone. He said both times he never saw what was inside his containers. He said he didn't even want to wear a chute, but that it was required once he started doing acrobatic flying.

Blevins, To the best of my memory, a parachute was NOT required for doing acrobatic flying in the early 1970s EXCEPT in certain situations.

If you were flying your own plane solo and not-for-profit, then no parachute was required. If you were carrying paying passengers and doing acrobatics, then a parachute was required for each person on board.

Generally speaking for sports aviation, if you were interested in staying alive, then a parachute was a very good idea. If not, then no need for one. For sports contests with airplanes, the organizer usually required a parachute.

Robert99

Why don't you call Hayden and ask him yourself? He has an ongoing business in Kent, WA and freely answers questions if you are nice. He is not hard to find. First you say chutes weren't required. Then you say if people wanted to stay alive, or it was required by an organizer, they would wear them. Well, maybe Hayden wanted to stay alive.

He said he was told (we're talking late 60's here) he had to get chutes. Ask HIM. It's verification of the source. Why would you take my word alone on it anyway?

Take your own advice!

You call Hayden.

It's you raising hell about this!

Nobody else is ...

Play it again on Broadway cross posterman ...

[Amazon 7]

Trust me I spend a LOT of time outdoors in the area I live :)

I notice things like bad weather and especially cold weather. even on those nights that it gets that cold in the teens the daytime temps usually rise well into the 20's The water is moving.. its also that which is being released from Bonneville to generate electricity.

Due to icing on the docks.. I can truthfully say I have taken a swim in the Columbia River many times during every month of the year. One time I slipped off the dock in the Marina over on Sauvie Island at Willow Bar and did break thru about 1/2" of ice in doing so... while trying to get a friends dog out of the water that had slid off the dock and could not break thru the ice to get back to the dock... that shit was coooooooooooooold.. but I did save the dog. But again that was a backwater... where little flow to speak of from the river managed to get in.

[georger 197]

Amazon

Trust me I spend a LOT of time outdoors in the area I live :)

I notice things like bad weather and especially cold weather. even on those nights that it gets that cold in the teens the daytime temps usually rise well into the 20's The water is moving.. its also that which is being released from Bonneville to generate electricity.

Due to icing on the docks.. I can truthfully say I have taken a swim in the Columbia River many times during every month of the year. One time I slipped off the dock in the Marina over on Sauvie Island at Willow Bar and did break thru about 1/2" of ice in doing so... while trying to get a friends dog out of the water that had slid off the dock and could not break thru the ice to get back to the dock... that shit was coooooooooooooold.. but I did save the dog. But again that was a backwater... where little flow to speak of from the river managed to get in.

90% of the time (or higher) its above freezing in the Portland
area, according to the data. What few cold snaps occurred
between 70 and 1980 were flanked by very warm temps (and
rain quite often) ... not conditions conducive to ice formation
say in Vancouver Lake or the Shillapoo, that I can see. I wonder
what the agent had in mind ...

[mrshutter45 21]

Robert99

***

I have interviewed Hayden twice by phone. He said both times he never saw what was inside his containers. He said he didn't even want to wear a chute, but that it was required once he started doing acrobatic flying.

Blevins, To the best of my memory, a parachute was NOT required for doing acrobatic flying in the early 1970s EXCEPT in certain situations.

If you were flying your own plane solo and not-for-profit, then no parachute was required. If you were carrying paying passengers and doing acrobatics, then a parachute was required for each person on board.

Generally speaking for sports aviation, if you were interested in staying alive, then a parachute was a very good idea. If not, then no need for one. For sports contests with airplanes, the organizer usually required a parachute.

Robert99


I seem to agree with your conclusion. I'm reading a lot of people stating this almost word for word as you mention above.

"The FAA requires parachutes in flight whenever anybody other than a required crewmember is in the airplane, and certain limits of pitch and roll are to be exceeded (except for required spin training). This means that parachutes must be worn by pilot and student during dual instruction in aerobatics.

As far as the FAA is concerned, parachutes are not required during solo aerobatic flight. But the IAC, being the safety-conscious organization that it is, does require that all pilots wear parachutes during contest flights. And believe it or not, you actually can function with this piece of safety equipment strapped onto your back! Maybe our American backs are just more tough than your Oz backs!

Tom P."

it's not required in Australia or New Zealand. I'm sure there is other countries.

from what I understand of the FAA regs on aerobatics, if your are flying solo a parachute is not required, but if you are carrying a pax then they must wear one.

91.307 Parachutes and parachuting
c) Unless each occupant of the aircraft is wearing an approved parachute, no pilot of a civil aircraft carrying any person (other than a crewmember) may execute any intentional maneuver that exceeds—

(1) A bank of 60 degrees relative to the horizon; or

(2) A nose-up or nose-down attitude of 30 degrees relative to the horizon.

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[sailshaw 0]

Georger:

Sorry for thinking it was your post and I will just ignore Blevins. Maybe he will just go away. I think we can put to bed the thought that the Amboy chute might be the one DB used.

THE AMBOY CHUTE WAS NOT THE CHUTE USED BY DB COOPER AS IT WAS THE WRONG COLOR AND MADE OUT OF TWILL AND NOT WHITE RIPSTOP.

Bob Sailshaw
[email protected]

[Amazon 7]

He is probably from a place where that is a common occurrence. I grew up in a family that sailed on Lake Michigan and in the fall we had to get the boat hauled out and stored on the hard to prevent damage to it from Ice. I have seen ice flows that are driven by the wind and stack up in huge ridges along the lake in the winter. I have also seen the damage that ICE can do on the Upper Mississippi and Wisconsin rivers in winter. I have also seen breakup time on the Mackenzie, Yukon and Peel Rivers in the far north when massive amounts of ice are scouring the river banks of any and everything.

Here along the Lower Columbia we just do not get that. Once upon a time before the damns that might have occurred as the ice would have flowed down from the COLD East side of the state but now the damns block that and the water in the Columbia and even in the Willamette is just not cold enough for the ice to form in any meaningful way that could do that damage to the river banks or to the boats and docks that remain in the water year round. Personally I kind of miss the old decomm of the boat in the fall and then the excitement of spring commissioning to get the boat off the hard and back into the water for spring and summer sailing.

[testxyz 0]

Quote

90% of the time (or higher) its above freezing in the Portland
area, according to the data. What few cold snaps occurred
between 70 and 1980 were flanked by very warm temps (and
rain quite often)

This makes me wonder how long the money was at Tena's bar. The ever changing weather conditions and the pourous sand would cause the money to rapidly decay.

Sometimes I wonder if the Fazio's are right. Their theory is the money had not been there long and was recently deposited with the tide.

The area was a favorite fishing area and the money was found only 20 feet from the shore line to my understanding. Seems like someone would have stepped on the bundles or notice them.

[Robert99 37]

RobertMBlevins

******

I have interviewed Hayden twice by phone. He said both times he never saw what was inside his containers. He said he didn't even want to wear a chute, but that it was required once he started doing acrobatic flying.

Blevins, To the best of my memory, a parachute was NOT required for doing acrobatic flying in the early 1970s EXCEPT in certain situations.

If you were flying your own plane solo and not-for-profit, then no parachute was required. If you were carrying paying passengers and doing acrobatics, then a parachute was required for each person on board.

Generally speaking for sports aviation, if you were interested in staying alive, then a parachute was a very good idea. If not, then no need for one. For sports contests with airplanes, the organizer usually required a parachute.

Robert99

Why don't you call Hayden and ask him yourself? He has an ongoing business in Kent, WA and freely answers questions if you are nice. He is not hard to find. First you say chutes weren't required. Then you say if people wanted to stay alive, or it was required by an organizer, they would wear them. Well, maybe Hayden wanted to stay alive.

He said he was told (we're talking late 60's here) he had to get chutes. Ask HIM. It's verification of the source. Why would you take my word alone on it anyway?

Blevins, the comments in posts just above cover the situation I was talking about.

Hayden was your source, or was he Bruce's source? You said Hayden didn't want to wear a parachute in your original post. Then you suggest just above that maybe Hayden did want to wear a parachute. Your efforts to be on both sides of the same question at the same time are remarkable. Is that good research? Georger is right.

Robert99

[georger 197]

sailshaw

Georger:

Sorry for thinking it was your post and I will just ignore Blevins. Maybe he will just go away. I think we can put to bed the thought that the Amboy chute might be the one DB used.

THE AMBOY CHUTE WAS NOT THE CHUTE USED BY DB COOPER AS IT WAS THE WRONG COLOR AND MADE OUT OF TWILL AND NOT WHITE RIPSTOP.

Bob Sailshaw
[email protected]

no problem. people confuse me with being Blevins, all the time.

[mrshutter45 21]

it's my understanding that the FBI did dig further at the site. nothing was found. after it was concluded as to not being Cooper's chute. that is all they are going to explain. they will not go step by step spoon feeding the reason.

you seem to want to turn the ordeal into something it's not. if they no longer have the chute this would be another indication it's worthless.

you should be working on proof KC was a paratrooper. I just read where Porteous claims to have the records. you give a different training company than Gray reports. lots of confusion surrounding this.

where is the Death Cert? is Lyle riding a bike to Seattle?

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[skyjack71 0]

testxyz

Quote

90% of the time (or higher) its above freezing in the Portland
area, according to the data. What few cold snaps occurred
between 70 and 1980 were flanked by very warm temps (and
rain quite often)

This makes me wonder how long the money was at Tena's bar. The ever changing weather conditions and the pourous sand would cause the money to rapidly decay.

Sometimes I wonder if the Fazio's are right. Their theory is the money had not been there long and was recently deposited with the tide.

The area was a favorite fishing area and the money was found only 20 feet from the shore line to my understanding. Seems like someone would have stepped on the bundles or notice them.

Technical problem with the money being deposited by the tide. It is my opinion that if the money was floating or underwater in the currents - it would have fanned out and probably separated unless it got to the Bar in a container.

Option 1.
A paper sack Duane threw into the river at the bridge 8 months before the money was found on Tena's bar.

Option 2.
Duane Weber not only threw a sack with "something in it" into the Columbia from the Red Lion.
As Jo has stated - THEY did go to Tena's Bar and Duane Weber went to the shore line BY HIMSELF - and then out of site behind the Fazion home. Was Cooper making random deposits of damaged money or was the Tena's bar the only deposit.

Option 3.
Cooper lost the loose money in the jump.

Optiion 4.
Cooper landed in the Columbia or in an area that was dreged around the Lake and some how ended up in the Columbia....with only 3 packets ending up on Tena's bar.

Option 5.
The money was planted on the beach by someone who accessed the monies for a faulty storage shed and since it was damaged - buried in on Tena's bar as a salute to a man who lieved in the area.

Option 6.
Some kind of animal or fowl found the money and carried it to Tina's bar.

Well, you guys can start to add and refine the options - but it all comes down to the fact ONLY one person has ever explained the money being on Tena's bar. A phone call to the FBI in 1996 - a woman who claimed her husband took her to Wa and to the Columbia and her frantic attempts to explain what she was talking about and in 1996 the woman had ONLY been to WA State ONE time and that was in 1979.

I have found some tapes I made on a micro mini - but nothing to play them no and no ONE can even get me one in this area. These tapes I made after contacting the FBI and before I went to WA in 2001 - so they are untainted - only my memories and at that time I had acquired 3 books.
Himmelsbacks book, Tosaws book and the first one I read a fictional book written by Max Gunther. Also acquired during this period of time from an UNKNOWN source. Ha Ha Ha by Dan Cooper.

Some tapes are the micro mini and the others are the regular cassett size.

ONE tape was from an anwering machine and it has a recording of Weber's voice during the yr (1990).
He had gone "NUTS" and obtained a drivers license under the name of John Collins and then used that ID to access a safe deposit box in probably Omaha, NB.

In the process getting himself detained by the authorities and taken by gun point to a processing center where he was not processed, but transfer by intervention by his physician to a 72 hour observation facility in a hospital were he was currently undergoing dialysis.

1990 Duane Weber was a desparate man - desperate enough to risk his freedom to obtain the drivers license he needed to access a box he opened in 1980 - containing his memories and momentos and part of his "savings". Monies he set aside to aid him when the time came he would be unable to provide for himself.

Why in 1988 after we moved to FL he was hell bent on getting a shop - he needed a way to WASH his hidden cash. He would open that small business and when he was going on diaylsis he knew he needed to go then. Because of his health he had let his old license expire so he risked everything to obtain another license under the name of John Collins. One attempt failed and one was a success and I still have that John Collins drivers license and it WAS not a fake.

When the FBI investigated they did NOT read the RECEIPT on that Collins drivers license. They never ever checked it out. If they had then they would have had the Jefferson pictures.

Oh, Well - NO one cares about the truth except the one who he tried to tell his story to. He kept asking for a recorder - and I didn't have to money to go get him one. Someone brought him an old one, but it didn't work.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[mrshutter45 21]

RobertMBlevins

***it's my understanding that the FBI did dig further at the site. nothing was found. after it was concluded as to not being Cooper's chute. that is all they are going to explain. they will not go step by step spoon feeding the reason.

you seem to want to turn the ordeal into something it's not. if they no longer have the chute this would be another indication it's worthless.

you should be working on proof KC was a paratrooper. I just read where Porteous claims to have the records. you give a different training company than Gray reports. lots of confusion surrounding this.

where is the Death Cert? is Lyle riding a bike to Seattle?

I've decided to take this position on Christiansen and his death, and whether or not he was a paratrooper: Prove he died from an AIDS-related disease. Prove he wasn't a paratrooper. You see...I am not in the habit of proving other peoples' allegations on this thread. If they are going to put forward those ideas, they should not come running to me for their evidence. I will wait for their alleged proof on these things, and then present what I have.

I willl say this much regarding Kenny's service: The reason why Gray's listing of Kenny's unit and mine do not match is because I listed his BTC, and Gray lists his permanent party unit. You were in the service, right? You know someone is assigned to one unit in Basic Training, and another for Advanced Training (depending on the specialty) and sometimes even another when they are assigned to their final unit.


that sounds like a response Jo would give (*laughs*) no records (actual) have been shown that KC has been a paratrooper. that's the bottom line. go ahead and take the easy way out of it. this question has been asked my times. not just by me. you would never accept the answer you just gave for this. not in a million years. did you read about the company Gray speaks of? it doesn't match. earlier I was doubtful he wasn't a paratrooper. after digging further I'm concluding it's unsupported due to lack of evidence. you are the one who claims he was a paratrooper, not me. it's your obligation to prove this as fact. not mine.

until actual proof has been shown. you can't use this as evidence. based on what you are saying. I find it difficult to even verify you talked to Lyle about this? you said that Lyle was mailing the certificate. now, do you wish to recant this allegation?

the privacy thing is ridiculous. you and the whole family are accusing him of a Federal crime. terrorism, kidnapping, extortion etc. etc.

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[mrshutter45 21]

"Option 1.
A paper sack Duane threw into the river at the bridge 8 months before it was found on Tena's bar."


8 months Jo? Sept 79- Feb 80 = 8 months?


also take notice that you claim the area Duane went to the river by himself, with you in the car was not Tena bar. you claim the FBI wouldn't look into who owned the property.

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[skyjack71 0]

testxyz

This makes me wonder how long the money was at Tena's bar. The ever changing weather conditions and the pourous sand would cause the money to rapidly decay.

Sometimes I wonder if the Fazio's are right. Their theory is the money had not been there long and was recently deposited with the tide.

The area was a favorite fishing area and the money was found only 20 feet from the shore line to my understanding. Seems like someone would have stepped on the bundles or notice them.

OR was there in Sept of 1971 a small shed under the tree line and on the beach side of the fence and behind the Fazio house. I have asked this question multiple times and NO on seems to know. Mr. Fazio had told me on the river in 2001 there used to be a shed used to store the boating equipment ----but he did NOT state when they removed the shed.

I have NEVER been able to extract any information or pictures of the property in 1971 aand 1979. I need to see 1979 pics prior to the money find.

PLEASE no one need send aerials they ARE too unreliable. The date actually taken and the date of the Aerial can be two different things. I want PHYSICAL photos I can print and hold from 1971 and 1979 prior to Sept of that yr. I want to know how big the shed was. A small shed under a tree wouldn't show up anyway.

Old wooden sheds are sometime made to be portable - meaning it had wood rafting under it....

If the shed was NOT there at the time of the money find - and it was moved after Sept 1971 and if Cooper buried the money at the edge and down about a foot - just exploring here our loud. NONE of this is FACT. Would that plus the fact it was winter have something to do with the money not being found right away?


I have posted here for 7 yrs and in those 7 yrs - things are stated in different ways to reflect the prior conversations or to field ideas of my own and that of others.

I found OLD notes and PRIOR to my ever going public and the story is as I always told it. Tena's bar was forever in my story. I didn't have a clue where the things were - I just described what I saw with Duane - and I had NO MAP of the area.

This thread has been an asset and a detriment. You guys can change your wording and say what you please and make opinions. Jo Weber is not allowed to explore or work thru the trip....which is WHAT I did with many statements taken out of context. I have material that pre-dates this thread - and I always talked bought Tena's bar...I described to Himmelsbach exactly what it looked like & I have bugged the hell out of the thread about Fazio stating there used to be a small shed under the tree and near the fence line - where they stored equipment (I assume boating equipment). If it was under the tree - it would NOT show up in an aerial - not just a little wooden storage shed under the tree line.

Everyone claims they will help and NO one does. NO one actually goes back and asks Fazion this question and watch his eyes and remind him about the boat storage shed and ask him to pinpoint when it was removed...before the money in 1980 find and after Sept of 1979.

Moving the storage shed probably made the exposure of money more likely from its shallow burial ground...


.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber