DB Cooper

[smokin99 0]

In Geoff Gray's unmasking DB article he states "Kenny trained with 11th Airborne Division, the Angels, which had been sent to the Pacific. But he never saw combat. When he was finally deployed, on August 16, 1945, his discharge papers show, the war was over. He ended up in Japan, joining the initial occupation forces".

I've looked up 11th airborne rosters before but have never found KC's name. As far as I know, proof that he was a paratrooper has never been presented though it's been asked since the beginning. I've never thought about it before, but that is kind of odd.

Georger said he would post more info on his stuff when he got it - I don't have a problem with that. If he doesn't we can string him up by his toes then. But, seriously, why should what others do matter? This tit for tat is just silly.

I have no reason to believe he wasn't a paratrooper, but there's no privacy reason not to post it - I mean you can get his social security number and army number off of Geoff Gray's article or SSDI. His basic service info is available on line so why play games - this is not nebulous somebody said he said, she said - KC either was a paratrooper or he wasn't. And there should be a paper trail. End of story.

I don't know....regardless of what other people do, after the fiasco with the soldier pictures that were supposed to be of Kenny that Lyle sent I'd be wanting proof if I didn't have it.
But that's just me...

Who knows...maybe it went the way of the Palmer report....

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[smokin99 0]

Guru312

***The thread has become entirely pointless..

Nearly 50,000 posts and 2,000,000 views and you're just now figuring that out??!!


I think you both might have a point there.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[smokin99 0]

RobertMBlevins

***In Geoff Gray's unmasking DB article he states "Kenny trained with 11th Airborne Division, the Angels, which had been sent to the Pacific. But he never saw combat. When he was finally deployed, on August 16, 1945, his discharge papers show, the war was over. He ended up in Japan, joining the initial occupation forces".

I've looked up 11th airborne rosters before but have never found KC's name. As far as I know, proof that he was a paratrooper has never been presented though it's been asked since the beginning. I've never thought about it before, but that is kind of odd.

Georger said he would post more info on his stuff when he got it - I don't have a problem with that. If he doesn't we can string him up by his toes then. But, seriously, why should what others do matter? This tit for tat is just silly.

I have no reason to believe he wasn't a paratrooper, but there's no privacy reason not to post it - I mean you can get his social security number and army number off of Geoff Gray's article or SSDI. His basic service info is available on line so why play games - this is not nebulous somebody said he said, she said - KC either was a paratrooper or he wasn't. And there should be a paper trail. End of story.

I don't know....regardless of what other people do, after the fiasco with the soldier pictures that were supposed to be of Kenny that Lyle sent I'd be wanting proof if I didn't have it.
But that's just me...

Who knows...maybe it went the way of the Palmer report....

You know, that was a very good try. I actually enjoyed reading your post. A bit of bait, a challenge. But you know what? I'm not going to post up a thing on it. Why should I simply drop my cards on the table? I'll trust History Channel researchers, Crown Books editors and Geoffrey Gray, Porteous' organization, and all the letters home I have from KC.

I'd rather let others try to prove Kenny never served as has been presented.

As far as the Palmer Report, this is what happened: I sent out personal letters about it to the appropriate folks whom I thought would know about it, or had a copy. Then over a year later, someone mails it to me. I get stuff in Manila envelopes from a lot from people. Mostly they are unsolicited manuscripts, which we do not accept. I read it. I didn't see the significance of it (booooring) and had not a clue that it was not freely available. Come on, it's supposed to be a Basic Cooper Thing. I thought every Cooper Investigator had access. It was sent to us by a Palmer family member. Who? Which one? Not a chance. There are trust issues around here.

Someone on this thread whined about the doc and said stuff about copyright violations. I had Greg shred it the following morning. It meant nothing to me. Later, I was told no one else has a copy. My suggestion is to go to the source if you want one.

...yeah....right....okay..whateever..lol....me thinks thou doth protest too much...
Seriously...I'm kinda thinking if you had either you would have posted it a long time ago cause that's your m.o. - it's in your DNA. You would have had no choice in the matter. lol....But no big deal. I'm done with it.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[mrshutter45 21]

"As far as I know, proof that he was a paratrooper has never been presented though it's been asked since the beginning. I've never thought about it before, but that is kind of odd.'

yep, that's how I see it. I went back into the thread and seen the questions. Blevins also states in 2010 I think it was that he would get the records. apparently it never happened. I was just asking for validation, but, the same old page after page starts. the privacy thing is ridiculous. his SSN is all over the place. his past has been exposed. etc. I said it a couple days ago. the privacy thing went out the window while accusing him of a Federal crime. I don't follow the logic. the family and friends are all on board lynching him for a second death. where exactly is the respect there? I think these people enjoy this. I think Marla said to someone "ya it's pretty neat" or something to that effect. I don't think they grasp what really happened to some of the people on that plane. perhaps they think since it was so long ago, nobody cares about there feelings.

I wonder what Tina or Flo would say if they read this thread and seen what these people do to try and place them where they once were?

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[smokin99 0]

Back to Cooper.
I have a question for the skydivers. I know this has probably been answered before (tee hee) but, considering what kind of chute that Cooper had - what would he have had to do to make it out of a water landing?

And how likely would it be that he could have?

And would the particular body of water make a difference - say the lake vs the river?
Most folks from the day say if he landed in the water he's a goner -- but then a lot said he wouldn't have made it period. And we know that he "could" have made it. So any thoughts?

And I know the logical answer - I'm really looking for the logistics involved in coming down and surviving in possible rough waters. Like what do you have to unbuckle or take off, how would you keep from getting tangled, etc.....

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[Amazon 7]

smokin99

Back to Cooper.
I have a question for the skydivers. I know this has probably been answered before (tee hee) but, considering what kind of chute that Cooper had - what would he have had to do to make it out of a water landing?

And how likely would it be that he could have?

And would the particular body of water make a difference - say the lake vs the river?
Most folks from the day say if he landed in the water he's a goner -- but then a lot said he wouldn't have made it period. And we know that he "could" have made it. So any thoughts?

And I know the logical answer - I'm really looking for the logistics involved in coming down and surviving in possible rough waters. Like what do you have to unbuckle or take off, how would you keep from getting tangled, etc.....

3 Quick release snaps that connect the leg straps and the chest strap.

2 Capewell releases to just dump the canopy.

But what would I know I only have well over 100 water landings and I appear to still be here.

Parachutes and harnesses are scary... you die if you use those don't cha know

[georger 197]

As far as the Palmer Report, this is what happened: I sent out personal letters about it to the appropriate folks whom I thought would know about it, or had a copy. Then over a year later, someone mails it to me. I get stuff in Manila envelopes from a lot from people. Mostly they are unsolicited manuscripts, which we do not accept. I read it. I didn't see the significance of it (booooring) and had not a clue that it was not freely available. Come on, it's supposed to be a Basic Cooper Thing. I thought every Cooper Investigator had access. It was sent to us by a Palmer family member. Who? Which one? Not a chance. There are trust issues around here.

Someone on this thread whined about the doc and said stuff about copyright violations. I had Greg shred it the following morning. It meant nothing to me. Later, I was told no one else has a copy. My suggestion is to go to the source if you want one.

Quote

Well Mr. Blevins, it was you who brought up the Palmer Report
in a reply to MeyerLouie, boasting out of the blue: "I have
reviewed the Palmer Report. You went on to say you
didn't think much of it ... now you add: It was sent to us by
a Palmer family member. The plot just thickens and thickens.

The originator of the Kaposi claim is Bruce Smith. Hopefully
when Bruce returns he will explain this further.

• Quote

[mrshutter45 21]

conflictions...according to Blevins Company E, Third Parachute Training Regiment. Sent to Pacific Theater later, but war was ending by the time he got there, assigned to duty in Occupied Japan, in the city of Fukuoka.

according to Gray: "Kenny trained with 11th Airborne Division, the Angels, which had been sent to the Pacific. But he never saw combat. When he was finally deployed, on August 16, 1945, his discharge papers show, the war was over. He ended up in Japan, joining the initial occupation forces".

http://www.ww2-airborne.us/18corps/11abn/11_overview.html

"I've looked up 11th airborne rosters before but have never found KC's name."

" proof that he was a paratrooper has never been presented though it's been asked since the beginning."

"Or ask Geoffrey Gray in an email. He was the first to mention Christiansen's service publicly, not me. Always go to the original source." I think the original source would be the US Army?

does anyone see a problem here that needs proper documentation?

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[testxyz 0]

Bryan Ingram says there were 3 bundles of money, each with a rubberband(s).

The rubberbands crumbled to the touch. As far as I know they didn't
turn to dust.

My question is...

Does anyone know how many rubberbands were on each bundle?

Did the FBI collect the rubberband fragments into evidence?

The 20 dollar bills I've seen don't reflect one rubberband securing the
bundles in the middle.

It seems there would be less discloration in the middle where the rubberband was and more toward the outer edges.

Multiple rubberbands on each bundle would have kept the discoloration
from the enviroment relatively even as seen in the picture attached.

Any thoughts?

[377 21]

Amazon

***Back to Cooper.
I have a question for the skydivers. I know this has probably been answered before (tee hee) but, considering what kind of chute that Cooper had - what would he have had to do to make it out of a water landing?

And how likely would it be that he could have?

And would the particular body of water make a difference - say the lake vs the river?
Most folks from the day say if he landed in the water he's a goner -- but then a lot said he wouldn't have made it period. And we know that he "could" have made it. So any thoughts?

And I know the logical answer - I'm really looking for the logistics involved in coming down and surviving in possible rough waters. Like what do you have to unbuckle or take off, how would you keep from getting tangled, etc.....

3 Quick release snaps that connect the leg straps and the chest strap.

2 Capewell releases to just dump the canopy.

But what would I know I only have well over 100 water landings and I appear to still be here.

Parachutes and harnesses are scary... you die if you use those don't cha know

I only have one water landing (an intentional one) so I'll defer to Amazon. A night landing in deep water dramatically increases the chance of a Cooper fatality in my opinion. Experienced skydivers have drowned in unintentional day water landings in summer weather within easy swimming distance of shore. Maybe Amazon can explain why these have occurred. My guess is panic sets in, they cant get out of the harness and drown.

Georger did a simple but convincing analysis of the chances that Cooper landed in water. The odds were VERY low as I recall.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[matthewcline 0]

Amazon

***Back to Cooper.
I have a question for the skydivers. I know this has probably been answered before (tee hee) but, considering what kind of chute that Cooper had - what would he have had to do to make it out of a water landing?

And how likely would it be that he could have?

And would the particular body of water make a difference - say the lake vs the river?
Most folks from the day say if he landed in the water he's a goner -- but then a lot said he wouldn't have made it period. And we know that he "could" have made it. So any thoughts?

And I know the logical answer - I'm really looking for the logistics involved in coming down and surviving in possible rough waters. Like what do you have to unbuckle or take off, how would you keep from getting tangled, etc.....

3 Quick release snaps that connect the leg straps and the chest strap.

2 Capewell releases to just dump the canopy.

But what would I know I only have well over 100 water landings and I appear to still be here.

Parachutes and harnesses are scary... you die if you use those don't cha know

All probably negated by improperly tying the money bag onto his person. (if the "experts" are right in how he attached it)

-To the forum-
I still have not found any record of KC being ASSIGNED to any ABN DIV, maybe he was only attached?

Since the Old McCarthy Hall was destroyed for the new Harness Shed at the US Army ABN School, finding records of graduates is a slow process, but no one has found KC in any classes through 1952.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[mrshutter45 21]

testxyz

Bryan Ingram says there were 3 bundles of money, each with a rubberband(s).

The rubberbands crumbled to the touch. As far as I know they didn't
turn to dust.

My question is...

Does anyone know how many rubberbands were on each bundle?

Did the FBI collect the rubberband fragments into evidence?

The 20 dollar bills I've seen don't reflect one rubberband securing the
bundles in the middle.

It seems there would be less discloration in the middle where the rubberband was and more toward the outer edges.

Multiple rubberbands on each bundle would have kept the discoloration
from the enviroment relatively even as seen in the picture attached.

Any thoughts?

that sounds like a question for Georger. there are 12 stacks there because the Ingram's took the bundle apart trying to clean them. I guess you are basically looking for a tan line correct.

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[377 21]

Quote

that sounds like a question for Georger. there are 12 stacks there because the Ingram's took the bundle apart trying to clean them. I guess you are basically looking for a tan line correct.

My Cooper twenty has no tan line. Darn. Those ones are probably worth more.

Occam keeps telling me crooks dont throw money away. The money at Tena Bar says accident to Mr. Occam, not an intentional plant.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[mrshutter45 21]

'Georger did a simple but convincing analysis of the chances that Cooper landed in water. The odds were VERY low as I recall."

I can agree with that as long as the area is correct as to where they think he landed. Rataczak throws a wrench in this when he states the time frame of 10-15 minutes past the 8:05 mark. take the worse case and you are around lots of water past the 8:16 point.

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[Robert99 37]

testxyz

Bryan Ingram says there were 3 bundles of money, each with a rubberband(s).

The rubberbands crumbled to the touch. As far as I know they didn't
turn to dust.

My question is...

Does anyone know how many rubberbands were on each bundle?

Did the FBI collect the rubberband fragments into evidence?

The 20 dollar bills I've seen don't reflect one rubberband securing the
bundles in the middle.

It seems there would be less discloration in the middle where the rubberband was and more toward the outer edges.

Multiple rubberbands on each bundle would have kept the discoloration
from the enviroment relatively even as seen in the picture attached.

Any thoughts?

Tom Kaye's web page has a picture and discussion of a bundle of the 20s that had "fanned out" due to an apparent "torque" applied by water flow. That particular bundle had only one rubber band (and it was on the left end of the bundle) when found. It could have started out with two or more rubber bands, but only one was present during the "fanning" out process.

Robert99

[mrshutter45 21]

377

Quote

that sounds like a question for Georger. there are 12 stacks there because the Ingram's took the bundle apart trying to clean them. I guess you are basically looking for a tan line correct.

My Cooper twenty has no tan line. Darn. Those ones are probably worth more.

Occam keeps telling me crooks dont throw money away. The money at Tena Bar says accident to Mr. Occam, not an intentional plant.

377

I can also agree with that comment. I'm not a scientist, so, perhaps this could be wrong but, the money supposedly sat there somewhere around a year. I would think evidence would start to disappear. then you have the Ingram's washing the money. now lots of evidence must of been wiped clean. we have a flight path under consideration, no dropzone written in stone, lots of water around the flight path at it's closest spot to T-Bar. we don't have a body, chute. nothing. can we automatically assume he made because of lack of evidence? or do we say he didn't make it. no real proof there either??? back to square one.

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[377 21]

Mr Shutter wrote

Quote

we don't have a body, chute. nothing. can we automatically assume he made because of lack of evidence? or do we say he didn't make it. no real proof there either??? back to square one.

You have described an eddy in the Cooper Vortex: a maddening spiral, a Mobius strip that makes you think you are getting somewhere and you end up back where you started. We even had a Siren calling, her name was Marla. The voyage between Scylla and Charybdis was a milk run compared to where our Ship of Fools blindly ventures. Perhaps a Kraken will end our torment.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 197]

377

Mr Shutter wrote

Quote

we don't have a body, chute. nothing. can we automatically assume he made because of lack of evidence? or do we say he didn't make it. no real proof there either??? back to square one.

You have described an eddy in the Cooper Vortex: a maddening spiral, a Mobius strip that makes you think you are getting somewhere and you end up back where you started. We even had a Siren calling, her name was Marla. The voyage between Scylla and Charybdis was a milk run compared to where our Ship of Fools blindly ventures. Perhaps a Kraken will end our torment.

377

My previous estimate of land vs water was based on the
FBI/NWA La Center Map for the area bounded by points G-L to
K-O. This area defines the traditional dropzone area. The
central question at the time was what is the chance Cooper
landed in water vs. land. It was shown that even if you
extended the box south beyond points K-O to include the
Columbia River, then the overall probability of land vs water did
not change that much. Now, if you change the box to include
only the area of say the northern suburbs of Vancouver to the
area just south of PDX, then the ratio of land mass to water
changes resulting in a higher probability of a water landing.
If you also move the flight path west of V23 and use the same
latitudes as that above, this changes the angle of attack with
respect to the Columbia basin, and results in an even higher
proportion of water to land mass - as I am sure R99 would point
out. That results in a higher probability of a water (or water
basin) landing vs. a landing on dry land which is not affected by
flooding.

Means of Conveyance: The two primary means of
conveyance discussed so far have been water and human
plant. There is a third option little discussed: lost
unintentionally during travel by Cooper or a third party; eg lost
during a struggle between Cooper and some other party at or
near Tina Bar.

There is a fourth option never discussed: ICE. Ice in tandem
with a natural water event. That some portion of the Cooper
money got frozen in ice and was transported to Tina Bar in ice
to wind up being trapped high up on the beach, then melted
and was silted over. This option was actually suggested to
Palmer by one FBI agent during a discussion with Palmer. The
"ice" option avoids the whole issue of money or bundles of
money floating, and it offers other advantages in terms of the
forensic data available.

The Palmer Report: Mr. Blevins has stated that a 'Palmer
family' member mailed him the Palmer Report.

What is the Palmer Report, so-called? The "Palmer Report" is an
FBI summary document, with a rather long FBI file number,
issued on 2/14/1980. The document summarizes Dr. Palmer's
findings as per an INTERVIEW that was conducted with Dr.
Palmer following his work at Tina Bar. So far as I know Dr.
Palmer never issued a written report, but conducted an
INTERVIEW with FBI agents following his work.

On Tom Kaye's website you get a hint of this when Tom says:
"1. FBI Transcript, Palmer: "Professor PALMER advised that he
found .... "Professor PALMER stated ... " and so on.

The only document I know of is this FBI summary report
following an interview that was done with Dr Palmer vs.
something Palmer himself wrote up and sent to the FBI.

I have no idea if Palmer ever had or was given a copy of the
FBI's summary report of his findings, to be in his papers at
Portland State University or with Palmer's family after his death,
to send to RobertMBlevins just several years ago?

I do know that we made a serious effort to check Palmer papers
in residence at Portland State Univ. and we found very little and
nothing that bore on Palmer's work at Tina Bar. I think Tom
made a similar effort, whatever his results were. We did uncover
several people who had worked with Palmer and discussed
Palmer's work at Tina Bar with Palmer etal.

Mr. Blevins claims he found little merit in the "Palmer Report"
after "reviewing it", he says!

Blevins stated he had no idea 'who' had sent him the Palmer
Report - Gayla took it out of the AB mail sent by some
anonymous person - now he claims it was sent by a "Palmer
family member"!

Since Mr. Blevins claims "I reviewed the Palmer Report", would
he share his "review". 'Geological stuff' - he says.

[testxyz 0]

Quote

that sounds like a question for Georger. there are 12 stacks there because the Ingram's took the bundle apart trying to clean them. I guess you are basically looking for a tan line correct.

There might be a tan line on the most outer bills if they are still intact.
The outer bills could have fallen off as they deterioriated and slipped away from the still intact rubberband.

I imagine the outer most bills were blacken by the enviroment to the point of not being recognizable, but the inner bills were protected. The
outer bills probably slipped away from the bundles as they disintergrated.

Probably why they found only $5800.

If there was only one rubberband holding the bills together than the bills would fan out and those bills would be subject to noticiable discoloration to the outer edges compared to the area bounded by the rubberband.

Of course, if all the bills remained contained in the canvas bag for a lengthy amount of time the fanning action probably wouldn't happen.

The water within the bag contributed to the bills sticking together along along with bundles of bills side by side compressing each other would substaintly eliminate fanning.

When the 3 bundles became lose of the canvas bag (not long before they were found at Tena's bar). The deterioration of the outer bills dramatically increased.

Bottomline>>> I don't think any of the outer bills from the 3 bundles were still intact when found at Tena's bar. The so called start/stop bills on the microfilm.

[skyjack71 0]

377

Quote

that sounds like a question for Georger. there are 12 stacks there because the Ingram's took the bundle apart trying to clean them. I guess you are basically looking for a tan line correct.

My Cooper twenty has no tan line. Darn. Those ones are probably worth more.

Occam keeps telling me crooks dont throw money away. The money at Tena Bar says accident to Mr. Occam, not an intentional plant.

377

Yea, you are right! EXCEPT if when Cooper retrieved some of his bounty from the mulitple place he hid it and some of it was badly damaged - he had to make some decisions.

He couldn't burn the money in a motel and he didn't want it on him in that area. Why Cooper had to make some stops on his way to Tahoe! He had some deposits to make. I think the places he buried or tossed the money were symbolic of his history in WA.

The article (supposedly a candy pac). A Small pac of money would be the be the size of a Hershey bar - we had NO candy with us. He tossed this on our way back to WA from the little side trip he took me on - to a couple of little towns along the river in OR....where he recounted people he knew and places he supposedly worked with "The Boys".

The next stop was almost across from the PDX - NOW that was symbolic. When I went out there in 2001 there were 3 NEW homes built on that location overlooking the river! What ever he buried he had taken down to the river at that site and definitly used a small shovel we kept in the trunk.

The next stop I got out with him so he didn't ditch anything at the Green tank.

Tena's bar I was ordered to stay in the car - WHY? He disappeared out of my site behind the house - WONDER WHY?

The Red Lion at the foot of the bridge to Vancouver. He throws a sack into the river while he sent me to the ladies room and the snack machines.

I think Cooper was disposing of damaged bounty! You can be sure he did NOT put all his eggs in one basket in 1971. He did NOT leave ALL of the money in WA. in 1971. Maybe he had someone mail a package for him and maybe he went to the locations of an old friend and made a deposit in their storage shed.

Duane Weber "disappeared" for 5 1/2 hours from The DALLES and then on the last day in Seattle in 1979 - he was GIDDY and did the Geronimo thing just as I snaped his pic with his first drink of the day in hand.

Next day - we leave Seattle early and he makes the MULTIPLE stops listed above!

In 1980 after the money shows up on the RIVER he figured he SCREWED up and takes off to the South - I do not know where the travel money came from and the moving money came from. I didn't have it and he didn't have it but I assure you it was there when we needed it...to pay for the move to Alabama.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[mrshutter45 21]

If we go by one of the reports you have shown shortly after the find. it appears the bundles were not all together. I believe they estimated the Ingram's found $3000. that leaves roughly $2800 found by the FBI.

I don't know how many rubber bands they were talking about when they said they crumbled when touched. key word, they.

"The $5,800 dollars in twenty-dollar bills still had intact rubber bands" this gives a clue that no bill were released from a stack. or bundle. each bundle would have to be some where in the area of $1940. short of $2000 bundles.

to confuse it more they claim Brian found around $3000. which again would be short of two bundles.

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[377 21]

Georger wrote

Quote

There is a fourth option never discussed: ICE. Ice in tandem
with a natural water event. That some portion of the Cooper
money got frozen in ice and was transported to Tina Bar in ice
to wind up being trapped high up on the beach, then melted
and was silted over.

There's a fresh idea.

Hey Amazon, ever see any mini/micro bergs coming down the river in this area? If so, do they ever have debris inside the ice?

I'll be jumping on Sunday. On some loads I am 3x the age of any other jumper on the King Air. It's actually a great sport for bridging age gaps. If you aren't a sky menace or a jerk, an old jumper can get along fine with the young maniacs. Where else do you see white hair mixing socially with purple and orange?

I do worry about the kids that seem to push the edge further every time they jump. I've seen some hook turn swoops that make me cringe. You can't keep pushing the edge forever, but they dont seem to get it. Perhaps they will mellow with age...

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 197]

mrshutter45

If we go by one of the reports you have shown shortly after the find. it appears the bundles were not all together. I believe they estimated the Ingram's found $3000. that leaves roughly $2800 found by the FBI.

I don't know how many rubber bands they were talking about when they said they crumbled when touched. key word, they.

"The $5,800 dollars in twenty-dollar bills still had intact rubber bands" this gives a clue that no bill were released from a stack. or bundle. each bundle would have to be some where in the area of $1940. short of $2000 bundles.

to confuse it more they claim Brian found around $3000. which again would be short of two bundles.

The FBI reports we were given (what Tom calls the FBI
Transcript) state no totals of any kind, the net total or some
total amount Brian supposedly found. Maybe newspaper reports
were the first statement by somebody of a total - ???

Brian, the insurance company, and the FBI were given custody
of certain numbers of bills.. I forget what those totals were.

[skyjack71 0]

U guys have been at this for 7 yrs now and NOT one person has ever seen the report (actually it was a letter) Palmer did to reaffirm to Tosaw his findings. HA! I just as well give you a little something else to think about! GALEN COOK supposedly was given some things that Tosaw left for him - but, NO ONE knows if this is true.

Cook who was a kid when TOSAW did his searching - supposedly helped on the river. I do NOT remember from where I found this information or if it is true. Only Cook knows the truth about this. Tosaw does not mention Galen by name in his book!

Oh Well GLACIER BOY really got around. Why do not one of you ask Cooper why I call him Glacier Boy? I did NOT learn about GLACIER BOY with out a lot of HELP, but my knowledge of this - sure did impress Galen Cook!

Nap Time for this old lady at 4 PM on this Tuesday in Sept 2013. Think about Glacier Boy and the Palmer information - IT was 1980 and I assure YOU there was a written accounting of this man's findings as they were done in an official capacity.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[mrshutter45 21]

Jo, I don't think you ever explained why you said multiple times Duane was no where near Tena Bar?

July 3, 2008...Ok, Duane went NOWHERE near Tena's Bar. the closest we got was The Red Lion Inn at the bridge.

Jan 21,2008...I walked away from the crew and Himmelsbach back to the cars...I was crying and wanted to be alone. I was not going to pretend this was the area Duane took me in 1979.

there is a couple more.....?

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI