MeyerLouie 5 #40076 May 14, 2013 ***I don't understand why people poke fun at the idea that Cooper may have backed down the stairs and just pulled the ripcord at the end..... I can't say whether Christiansen was the guy, but ...... _________________________________________________ Blevins, I can, Christiansen was not the guy, he was not DB Cooper.... got it? Now, go outside and play.... Whether Cooper backed down the stairs or not .... has exactly what to with finding any kind of solution to anything Cooper? I know, I forgot ... you've got to kill some time and babble on to make sure you get your quota in for the day. MeyerLouie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MeyerLouie 5 #40077 May 14, 2013 Amazon If he had blown up the canopy... His body would have been found under that streamer canopy. They found the placard... this is not a wilderness... people have been all over it for the last 40 years, hunters, timber cruisers, loggers. Canopies just do not disappear underground or even under forest duff. I keep going back to the placard. Tiny in comparison and it was found. I have been unfortunate enough to see more than one human body go in under a streamer.. its just not that small of a search target. _______________________________________________ Really good point, Amazon. You'd think something would have turned up by now -- a body, a parchute, the briefcase, the moneybag. I agree with you that Cooper did not jump into a wilderness. Moreover, I don't think he ever intended to. He wore a suit and loafers for crying out loud. That tells me he never ever intended to stray far from the beaten path of civilization, and that may be one of several reasons he selected 305 (and V-23 for that matter). V-23 follows a major corridor in Washington and Oregon -- it is filled with people, cities, freeways, lights, and roads. That's hardly a wilderness. It wasn't back then, and it's certainly less so now. Nothing found has all kinds of implications -- he ended up in a watershed, he survived/walked out, he had a no pull/still buried and well hidden at the bottom of a ravine or deep within a thick briar patch... and on and on -- which we have discussed at length on the forum -- and which I will not rehash here. MeyerLouie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MeyerLouie 5 #40078 May 14, 2013 RobertMBlevinsOkay. Then where's the body and all the stuff? Maybe he did freefall. No one really knows for sure. But the lack of ground evidence points MORE to survival than it does to fatality. It's been more than forty years now, and the area in which Cooper jumped isn't exactly the North Cascades, and is heavily used. I understand what you're saying, but WHERE IS THE STUFF? It's the Big Question. The 'official' flight path says he probably didn't go into the Columbia unless he waited until they were practically over Portland. I'm not buying the We-Flew-Over-Tina-Bar scenario without proof. And for some reason, the FBI did concentrate their search between Merwin Lake and points south. And that is some distance east of Tina Bar. In order to discount the FBI's version of the dropzone, proof is required. And if Cooper didn't go into Lake Merwin, then it is very likely someone would have discovered at least a piece of the evidence by now. Oh..just saw your last comment. Bill Rataczak claimed that the stairs would only drop 24-36" in flight. Didn't those test jumpers have stairs that were made to lower and lock into place? Don't know, but I thought I heard that's the way it was done. On Flight 305 they didn't have that. Rataczak said airflow would prevent them from dropping further on their own. Shutter says in part: Quote'If this new chute theory comes to light, LD, KC and Duane are dead in the water with Cooper!!!!!!!! ' Yeah. Okay. Let me know when you find the body, the briefcase, the money bag, the parachutes, etc. Cossey is on the record in several places about the canopy used and the backpack. He should know. He may not have owned those chutes, but he did pack them. _______________________________________________ And your response has what to do with Robert99's original question? Absolutely nothing. Just tootin' your horn, huh? You're all over the place again. Time to get back on your ADD medication. What part of Robert99's explanation about the aft stairs in flight is not clear? What part of it don't you get? Jeez dude, you're a freak show. You do only two things here: talk, and wait to talk. That's it. Now go out and play! MeyerLouie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MeyerLouie 5 #40079 May 14, 2013 [ Cossey is on the record in several places about the canopy used and the backpack. He should know. He may not have owned those chutes, but he did pack them. __________________________________________________ I recently heard Cossey was also on record, in his last interview, as not having much use for your theory. Is that true? Just a nasty rumor I think I just read on the forum. MeyerLouie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #40080 May 14, 2013 Robert, why does everyone have to be right on the chutes. how do you know Cossey wasn't told what to say in order for the FBI to make Cooper dead on paper? the original cause of death was by the FBI. The stairs can not be locked in place in flight. all the internal parts were damaged. The FBI test shows the stairs going back up because they pushed the sled down the stairs. another picture shows a guy on the stairs but it's not full extended. they have already admitted that they were wrong on the jump location, many mistakes have been made. one second you lock onto what the FBI says or does, then you turn around and say BS? have they found the skydiver from months ago? were is he and all his stuff? you admit many times you have been wrong about a lot of things in the past how do you figure you are so right now? do you know the difference between oscillation and a pressure bump?"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sailshaw 0 #40081 May 14, 2013 Blevins: You say "I don't understand why people poke fun at the idea that Cooper may have backed down the stairs and just pulled the ripcord at the end. Carrying the load DB was packing, and the stairs only dropping 24-36 inches on release. What would YOU do? Bend over REAL low and hope the stairs don't drop suddenly? Hmm. I'm not a skydiver, but if you weren't expecting the stairs to open so little, and it happened, (*surprise, Cooper!*) I'm turning AROUND and taking a good hold before trying those stairs. Smile Maybe this is the reason he sounded a little upset in his last com with the cockpit, after the stairs were opened. ('NO!')" I say that I agree with you on backing down the airstairs and also that he pulled the ripcord so that the chute pulled him away from the last stair as it slowly opened. Like we have seen cargo chutes open in some of the video's here in the DropZone. He would have been exposed to about 3 to 4 minutes of the storm he jumped into. Not long enough to freeze to death as the FBI story goes. So, did he make it to the ground alive? yes. Did he survive the shock of the military chute and harness? (Cossey believed it would have been tremendous but he was wrong on many of the things he should have known), yes. Did DB live? Yes and probably walked to his car that was within 15 miles of his landing spot. That is why nothing has been found except at Tina's Bar and that could have been the three bundles of 20's he offered the crew and they refused. He could have stuffed the three bundles into the sack he carried onboard and into his shirt. The bag of 20's could have been blasted out of his shirt and on its way to Tina's Bar. Bob Sailshaw [email protected] ;Blevins Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #40082 May 14, 2013 sailshawBlevins: You say "I don't understand why people poke fun at the idea that Cooper may have backed down the stairs and just pulled the ripcord at the end. Carrying the load DB was packing, and the stairs only dropping 24-36 inches on release. What would YOU do? Bend over REAL low and hope the stairs don't drop suddenly? Hmm. I'm not a skydiver, but if you weren't expecting the stairs to open so little, and it happened, (*surprise, Cooper!*) I'm turning AROUND and taking a good hold before trying those stairs. Smile Maybe this is the reason he sounded a little upset in his last com with the cockpit, after the stairs were opened. ('NO!')" I say that I agree with you on backing down the airstairs and also that he pulled the ripcord so that the chute pulled him away from the last stair as it slowly opened. Like we have seen cargo chutes open in some of the video's here in the DropZone. He would have been exposed to about 3 to 4 minutes of the storm he jumped into. Not long enough to freeze to death as the FBI story goes. So, did he make it to the ground alive? yes. Did he survive the shock of the military chute and harness? (Cossey believed it would have been tremendous but he was wrong on many of the things he should have known), yes. Did DB live? Yes and probably walked to his car that was within 15 miles of his landing spot. That is why nothing has been found except at Tina's Bar and that could have been the three bundles of 20's he offered the crew and they refused. He could have stuffed the three bundles into the sack he carried onboard and into his shirt. The bag of 20's could have been blasted out of his shirt and on its way to Tina's Bar. Bob Sailshaw [email protected] ;Blevins unless someone is a qualified jumper it's all a guess as to how he did the jump. actually it would be a guess for anyone since it has never done before. the stunt jumper in the movie does come down backwards and then side steps to the bottom. here is the static line jump in slow mo.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYW08S3dAUs"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #40083 May 14, 2013 it seems that everything on record gives the intention of Cooper wanting to jump very early in the flight. he had trouble with the stairs, perhaps he thought the stairs were going to drop all the way down, once he realized this it changed everything. this could be a reason he took so long before he jumped, I don't know.... lots of qualified people build buildings, they fall down because of something going wrong in the design. overhead walkways collapse because of poor engineering, so why is it impossible to believe the flight path could be wrong in the timing? human error is the number one cause of accidents and problems.... I have seen Hurricane shutters that have been tested to over 150 mph with a positive and negative load ripped right off the house in a category 1 or 2. this shouldn't happen unless it's a cat 4 or above. Flight 19 was lost in the 40's 5 planes disappeared without a trace, the largest Naval search was launched and covered 250,000 square miles and not one thing was found floating? a PBM left that night from Banana river north of West Palm Beach, the plane was seen exploding and the coords marked, nothing has been found of that plane either. I understand the water is a different beast, but it seems to me it's understandable to have a body missing for a long period. I think it's still early to decide that Cooper's body could not still be out there. I can't verify this nor can I claim it, others claim he went into the water, so we have options out there...."It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 197 #40084 May 14, 2013 ***Blevins: You say "I don't understand why people poke fun at the idea that Cooper may have backed down the stairs and just pulled the ripcord at the end. Carrying the load DB was packing, and the stairs only dropping 24-36 inches on release. What would YOU do? Bend over REAL low and hope the stairs don't drop suddenly? Hmm. I'm not a skydiver, but if you weren't expecting the stairs to open so little, and it happened, (*surprise, Cooper!*) I'm turning AROUND and taking a good hold before trying those stairs. Smile Maybe this is the reason he sounded a little upset in his last com with the cockpit, after the stairs were opened. ('NO!')" I say that I agree with you on backing down the airstairs and also that he pulled the ripcord so that the chute pulled him away from the last stair as it slowly opened. Like we have seen cargo chutes open in some of the video's here in the DropZone. He would have been exposed to about 3 to 4 minutes of the storm he jumped into. Not long enough to freeze to death as the FBI story goes. So, did he make it to the ground alive? yes. Did he survive the shock of the military chute and harness? (Cossey believed it would have been tremendous but he was wrong on many of the things he should have known), yes. Did DB live? Yes and probably walked to his car that was within 15 miles of his landing spot. That is why nothing has been found except at Tina's Bar and that could have been the three bundles of 20's he offered the crew and they refused. He could have stuffed the three bundles into the sack he carried onboard and into his shirt. The bag of 20's could have been blasted out of his shirt and on its way to Tina's Bar. Bob Sailshaw [email protected] Quote Where is three bundles of money written in stone? Oh, '3 bundles at Tina Bar', and, 'gave Tina 3 bundles'. Shall I enter that after Exodus 20:13? - another 'Thou shalt'? 'Thou shalt back down unlocked vibrating 727 stairs, like a worm leaving Gomorrah. Do not look back!' I will make this easy! Ole Paper Legs couldn't back down anything. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Robert99 37 #40085 May 14, 2013 RobertMBlevins******Flight path wrong? A lot of people worked on that, and many of them were very smart folks. To date, no definitive proof that they got that wrong has emerged. But unlike the Amboy chute, a lot of outside experts worked on that. So I'm willing to accept the results unless it's proven wrong. Blevins, Do you have some names for these "outside experts"? Robert99 Who worked on the flight path of 305 after it left Seattle? Is that like a trick question or something? You should know the answer to this already. Let's just say LOTS of people. Okay. Radar info. The FBI. Certain people from Northwest Airlines. But you already knew that. If you want to discredit the official flight path, you will have to give PROOF on why it's inaccurate. You're just trying to dodge around all that in order to promote your They-Flew-Over-Tina-Bar-Which-Explains-Why-The-Money-Was-Found-There-And-Cooper-Must-Be-Dead stuff. Blevins, I am not trying to sell books or "stuff" (whatever you mean by that) and I didn't ask you a "trick question". So are you admitting that you don't have any names to back up your claims? However, I must confess that some of those names in Georger's list seem familiar from somewhere. It looks as if all the action on the thread took place late last night and real early this morning while I was getting some sleep. Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #40086 May 14, 2013 Robert99*********Flight path wrong? A lot of people worked on that, and many of them were very smart folks. To date, no definitive proof that they got that wrong has emerged. But unlike the Amboy chute, a lot of outside experts worked on that. So I'm willing to accept the results unless it's proven wrong. Blevins, Do you have some names for these "outside experts"? Robert99 Who worked on the flight path of 305 after it left Seattle? Is that like a trick question or something? You should know the answer to this already. Let's just say LOTS of people. Okay. Radar info. The FBI. Certain people from Northwest Airlines. But you already knew that. If you want to discredit the official flight path, you will have to give PROOF on why it's inaccurate. You're just trying to dodge around all that in order to promote your They-Flew-Over-Tina-Bar-Which-Explains-Why-The-Money-Was-Found-There-And-Cooper-Must-Be-Dead stuff. Blevins, I am not trying to sell books or "stuff" (whatever you mean by that) and I didn't ask you a "trick question". So are you admitting that you don't have any names to back up your claims? However, I must confess that some of those names in Georger's list seem familiar from somewhere. It looks as if all the action on the thread took place late last night and real early this morning while I was getting some sleep. Robert99 he has automatically discredited everyone, he is claiming KC was Cooper, so this means everything that everyone else is saying is wrong! if I'm not mistaken Robert99, you did your calculations in order to justify things correct, not to prove the flight path is wrong. I am trying to validate the path as the FBI shows it, not to discredit the path as Blevins thinks people are doing. the cops do they same thing recreating a crime scene. we don't have the computer cards from the radar, we don't have the money to rent a 727 and find the perfect weather condition to fly the path again. Blevins needs to understand that not everyone is out to discredit the FBI nor is it the intention...... how many years was there a "magic bullet" in the JFK shooting, how did they find out it wasn't magic? recreation maybe?"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 377 20 #40087 May 14, 2013 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYW08S3dAUs It looks as if the bagged canopies actually contact the 727 fuselage (or come very close) as the lines are stretching out. Not relevant to a ripcord jump, but spooky to watch considering the hot exhaust from the center engine that exits right at the tail cone. If Cooper knew about these Thailand jumps he'd have known that pulling off the stairs was his safest alternative, by far. No tumbling at all and a surprisingly gentle opening shock due to canopy "squidding". I never would have guessed it would deploy so gently without a sleeve. These 727 jump videos really surprised me and I have made a jet jump (freefall from a DC 9-21 in 2006). I am still planning to interview that Vietnamese paratrooper I met. He made military S/L and freefall jumps in Viet Nam and was aware of the sport jumpers in Saigon who used an RVN Sikorsky helo. I want to ask him if he was aware of the Thailand 727 jumps and if he by chance knew Sheridan Peterson who made sport jumps in Saigon. I'll also ask him what if anything he knew about the MAC SOG guys and their ops. If he permits it I will make a video and post a link here. I want to be careful not to ask leading questions. If any of you have question you wish me to ask, post them here. 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #40088 May 14, 2013 "but spooky to watch considering the hot exhaust from the center engine that exits right at the tail cone." spooky yes, but I thinks it's about the same as waving your hand over a flame, just to quick to do anything..... is the paratrooper aware of DB Cooper?"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 377 20 #40089 May 14, 2013 mrshutter45"but spooky to watch considering the hot exhaust from the center engine that exits right at the tail cone." spooky yes, but I thinks it's about the same as waving your hand over a flame, just to quick to do anything..... is the paratrooper aware of DB Cooper? On parachute parts with higher thermal mass (like webbing) you are correct but it wouldnt take much to weaken thin suspension lines. Stiil, dwell time in the hot zone is very brief. I've avoided asking the ARVN paratrooper much as I want the interview to be as clean and unbiased as I can make it. I didnt believe his military freefall story until I saw photos of such ARVN freefall ops in a Time Life book. He works as a barber now. Nice guy. He was very pleased that I showed interest in his military career. 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BobKnoss 0 #40090 May 14, 2013 ***Blevins: You say "I don't understand why people poke fun at the idea that Cooper may have backed down the stairs and just pulled the ripcord at the end. Carrying the load DB was packing, and the stairs only dropping 24-36 inches on release. What would YOU do? Bend over REAL low and hope the stairs don't drop suddenly? Hmm. I'm not a skydiver, but if you weren't expecting the stairs to open so little, and it happened, (*surprise, Cooper!*) I'm turning AROUND and taking a good hold before trying those stairs. Smile Maybe this is the reason he sounded a little upset in his last com with the cockpit, after the stairs were opened. ('NO!')" I say that I agree with you on backing down the airstairs and also that he pulled the ripcord so that the chute pulled him away from the last stair as it slowly opened. Like we have seen cargo chutes open in some of the video's here in the DropZone. He would have been exposed to about 3 to 4 minutes of the storm he jumped into. Not long enough to freeze to death as the FBI story goes. So, did he make it to the ground alive? yes. Did he survive the shock of the military chute and harness? (Cossey believed it would have been tremendous but he was wrong on many of the things he should have known), yes. Did DB live? Yes and probably walked to his car that was within 15 miles of his landing spot. That is why nothing has been found except at Tina's Bar and that could have been the three bundles of 20's he offered the crew and they refused. He could have stuffed the three bundles into the sack he carried onboard and into his shirt. The bag of 20's could have been blasted out of his shirt and on its way to Tina's Bar. Bob Sailshaw [email protected] Then you are BOTH wrong like Wong Whey. Richard McCoy stated that Duane went down face first to the second from the last stair. When he jumped the stairs came up and hit his right leg. Mac backed down the stairs all the way to the bottom to avoid problems. Weber's leg injuries have been discussed at length. McCoy's only injuries were a small bone broken in his foot which didn't bother him too much, as he walked out of the desert. Duane walked down the clear cut and dug a hole deep enough to bury a milk can. And them's the real facts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #40091 May 14, 2013 listen Mr. no proof, you have no say in anything that goes on in this form. you have been caught many times with deception, stop trying to be what you are not! you want to tell the story but can't back it up. Facts are backed up with proof, not words. you and Jo need lessons on the meaning of FACTS."It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 197 #40092 May 14, 2013 377http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYW08S3dAUs It looks as if the bagged canopies actually contact the 727 fuselage (or come very close) as the lines are stretching out. Not relevant to a ripcord jump, but spooky to watch considering the hot exhaust from the center engine that exits right at the tail cone. If Cooper knew about these Thailand jumps he'd have known that pulling off the stairs was his safest alternative, by far. No tumbling at all and a surprisingly gentle opening shock due to canopy "squidding". I never would have guessed it would deploy so gently without a sleeve. These 727 jump videos really surprised me and I have made a jet jump (freefall from a DC 9-21 in 2006). I am still planning to interview that Vietnamese paratrooper I met. He made military S/L and freefall jumps in Viet Nam and was aware of the sport jumpers in Saigon who used an RVN Sikorsky helo. I want to ask him if he was aware of the Thailand 727 jumps and if he by chance knew Sheridan Peterson who made sport jumps in Saigon. I'll also ask him what if anything he knew about the MAC SOG guys and their ops. If he permits it I will make a video and post a link here. I want to be careful not to ask leading questions. If any of you have question you wish me to ask, post them here. 377 This is exactly why I raised the issue of the engines earlier. We can play 'what if' all day ... and we have. Front first, back first, radio, no radio .... The stairs themselves are a known variable. Perhaps concentrate more on them and stop trying to mind meld with DB Cooper ... until such time as a firm set of facts are known and established. Hey I like whoever is playing around with the format and screen here. I like the new large gezer print! Maybe tomorrow the word THE will take up the whole screen .... the Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #40093 May 14, 2013 Totally incorrect statements: The Boeing had been jumped before Cooper did it. Ask 377 and Snowman. I argued the point till I was blue in the face that Duane and I watched a segment on TV (between 1988 & 1994) showing the Boeing being jumped from in the 1960's. It took awhile, BUT 377 and Snowmman found the clip. For a long time 377 doubted me UNTIL Snowman found the clip! That CLIP is available in this thread! The Boeing had been jumped before and that was very very early on - prior to 1971. In that exercise they slid down and out and hence why Cooper did NOT know how to lower the aft stairs....but, it had been jumped from and it was PUBLIC knowledge but only to a select few individuals. Find the select few and check their backgrounds and you know the connections to Cooper and to Weber! One of the men in the video look a lot like Weber - but it was not Weber. Anyone ever find out who the man was with the funny stance and the white hair infront of the Boeing after or before or after the teams jumped it with the cargos?Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #40094 May 14, 2013 skyjack71 Totally incorrect statements: The Boeing had been jumped before Cooper did it. Ask 377 and Snowman. I argued the point till I was blue in the face that Duane and I watched a segment on TV (between 1988 & 1994) showing the Boeing being jumped from in the 1960's. It took awhile, BUT 377 and Snowmman found the clip. For a long time 377 doubted me UNTIL Snowman found the clip! That CLIP is available in this thread! The Boeing had been jumped before and that was very very early on - prior to 1971. In that exercise they slid down and out and hence why Cooper did NOT know how to lower the aft stairs....but, it had been jumped from and it was PUBLIC knowledge but only to a select few individuals. Find the select few and check their backgrounds and you know the connections to Cooper and to Weber! One of the men in the video look a lot like Weber - but it was not Weber. Anyone ever find out who the man was with the funny stance and the white hair infront of the Boeing after or before or after the teams jumped it with the cargos? I am not wrong. I seen the clip. I didn't see any stairs nor did that tell the speed the plane was traveling. big difference, it was a static line jump. is that what cooper did??? it was similar, but not the same....."It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #40095 May 14, 2013 Quote Robert, why does everyone have to be right on the chutes. how do you know Cossey wasn't told what to say in order for the FBI to make Cooper dead on paper? Quote The stairs can not be locked in place in flight. all the internal parts were damaged. The FBI test shows the stairs going back up because they pushed the sled down the stairs. another picture shows a guy on the stairs but it's not full extended. Have absolutely NO idea where you guys found that information. The same plane was used - but NO place have I read that the internal locks or parts were damaged. The did LOCK them in place for the test. It is also possible they were damaged when the plane landed as the stairway did hit the ground but it was my understanding no real damage. I talked extensively with the Co-pilot about this yrs ago and with Mr. H. For some reason this thread has BECOME absolutely a bunch of garbage and the facts have been distorted. Since the major distortion of the facts are Georger, Robert99 and then others - Makes on wonder what is going on. NONE of you are making one IOTA of sense lately. All you guys are currently doing is probagating myths - it is like the FACTS never existed! Seems the only goal of this thread now is to distort any truths to the point of NO return. Dear God help the young people who yrs from now try to do a thesis on Cooper! I can only imagine how that will read in 2040! Gobbley Gook is all that seems to survive on this thread!Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #40096 May 14, 2013 Jo, they couldn't have locked the stairs, how would they get the stairs to go back up after the sled left the stairs????? you are the one starting myths, nobody seen a watch and yet you want to put Duanes watch in as evidence? myth..."It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #40097 May 14, 2013 mrshutter45Jo, they couldn't have locked the stairs, how would they get the stairs to go back up after the sled left the stairs????? you are the one starting myths, nobody seen a watch and yet you want to put Duanes watch in as evidence? myth... Did I say I was submitting Duane's Watch as "evidence" ? I want to know if the pictures of the watch match any watch that might have been described by any witness!Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #40098 May 14, 2013 nobody seen a watch..........take a picture of his socks while your at it...ya never know you didn't answer the question about the stairs??? also, damaged does not mean inoperable.... "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #40099 May 14, 2013 mrshutter45Jo, they couldn't have locked the stairs, how would they get the stairs to go back up after the sled left the stairs????? you are the one starting myths, nobody seen a watch and yet you want to put Duanes watch in as evidence? myth... There was extensive conversation about this and you are right they did NOT lock the aft for the simulation. BUT the Mechanisms were NOT damaged as one of you stated above. There was another simulation decades later - for a movie - that is the one where they locked the aft because it was a real live person jumping. After all of these yrs even I am getting scrambled on some of the facts. Hell, for all I know at this point maybe the complete incident was a simulation! The videos are in this thread - go look at them for yourselves - back when those who knew supported what they said - like Snowmman and 377.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #40100 May 14, 2013 who are you talking too??????"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1599 1600 1601 1602 1603 1604 1605 1606 1607 1608 1609 Next Page 1604 of 2541 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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Robert99 37 #40085 May 14, 2013 RobertMBlevins******Flight path wrong? A lot of people worked on that, and many of them were very smart folks. To date, no definitive proof that they got that wrong has emerged. But unlike the Amboy chute, a lot of outside experts worked on that. So I'm willing to accept the results unless it's proven wrong. Blevins, Do you have some names for these "outside experts"? Robert99 Who worked on the flight path of 305 after it left Seattle? Is that like a trick question or something? You should know the answer to this already. Let's just say LOTS of people. Okay. Radar info. The FBI. Certain people from Northwest Airlines. But you already knew that. If you want to discredit the official flight path, you will have to give PROOF on why it's inaccurate. You're just trying to dodge around all that in order to promote your They-Flew-Over-Tina-Bar-Which-Explains-Why-The-Money-Was-Found-There-And-Cooper-Must-Be-Dead stuff. Blevins, I am not trying to sell books or "stuff" (whatever you mean by that) and I didn't ask you a "trick question". So are you admitting that you don't have any names to back up your claims? However, I must confess that some of those names in Georger's list seem familiar from somewhere. It looks as if all the action on the thread took place late last night and real early this morning while I was getting some sleep. Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #40086 May 14, 2013 Robert99*********Flight path wrong? A lot of people worked on that, and many of them were very smart folks. To date, no definitive proof that they got that wrong has emerged. But unlike the Amboy chute, a lot of outside experts worked on that. So I'm willing to accept the results unless it's proven wrong. Blevins, Do you have some names for these "outside experts"? Robert99 Who worked on the flight path of 305 after it left Seattle? Is that like a trick question or something? You should know the answer to this already. Let's just say LOTS of people. Okay. Radar info. The FBI. Certain people from Northwest Airlines. But you already knew that. If you want to discredit the official flight path, you will have to give PROOF on why it's inaccurate. You're just trying to dodge around all that in order to promote your They-Flew-Over-Tina-Bar-Which-Explains-Why-The-Money-Was-Found-There-And-Cooper-Must-Be-Dead stuff. Blevins, I am not trying to sell books or "stuff" (whatever you mean by that) and I didn't ask you a "trick question". So are you admitting that you don't have any names to back up your claims? However, I must confess that some of those names in Georger's list seem familiar from somewhere. It looks as if all the action on the thread took place late last night and real early this morning while I was getting some sleep. Robert99 he has automatically discredited everyone, he is claiming KC was Cooper, so this means everything that everyone else is saying is wrong! if I'm not mistaken Robert99, you did your calculations in order to justify things correct, not to prove the flight path is wrong. I am trying to validate the path as the FBI shows it, not to discredit the path as Blevins thinks people are doing. the cops do they same thing recreating a crime scene. we don't have the computer cards from the radar, we don't have the money to rent a 727 and find the perfect weather condition to fly the path again. Blevins needs to understand that not everyone is out to discredit the FBI nor is it the intention...... how many years was there a "magic bullet" in the JFK shooting, how did they find out it wasn't magic? recreation maybe?"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
377 20 #40087 May 14, 2013 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYW08S3dAUs It looks as if the bagged canopies actually contact the 727 fuselage (or come very close) as the lines are stretching out. Not relevant to a ripcord jump, but spooky to watch considering the hot exhaust from the center engine that exits right at the tail cone. If Cooper knew about these Thailand jumps he'd have known that pulling off the stairs was his safest alternative, by far. No tumbling at all and a surprisingly gentle opening shock due to canopy "squidding". I never would have guessed it would deploy so gently without a sleeve. These 727 jump videos really surprised me and I have made a jet jump (freefall from a DC 9-21 in 2006). I am still planning to interview that Vietnamese paratrooper I met. He made military S/L and freefall jumps in Viet Nam and was aware of the sport jumpers in Saigon who used an RVN Sikorsky helo. I want to ask him if he was aware of the Thailand 727 jumps and if he by chance knew Sheridan Peterson who made sport jumps in Saigon. I'll also ask him what if anything he knew about the MAC SOG guys and their ops. If he permits it I will make a video and post a link here. I want to be careful not to ask leading questions. If any of you have question you wish me to ask, post them here. 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #40088 May 14, 2013 "but spooky to watch considering the hot exhaust from the center engine that exits right at the tail cone." spooky yes, but I thinks it's about the same as waving your hand over a flame, just to quick to do anything..... is the paratrooper aware of DB Cooper?"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
377 20 #40089 May 14, 2013 mrshutter45"but spooky to watch considering the hot exhaust from the center engine that exits right at the tail cone." spooky yes, but I thinks it's about the same as waving your hand over a flame, just to quick to do anything..... is the paratrooper aware of DB Cooper? On parachute parts with higher thermal mass (like webbing) you are correct but it wouldnt take much to weaken thin suspension lines. Stiil, dwell time in the hot zone is very brief. I've avoided asking the ARVN paratrooper much as I want the interview to be as clean and unbiased as I can make it. I didnt believe his military freefall story until I saw photos of such ARVN freefall ops in a Time Life book. He works as a barber now. Nice guy. He was very pleased that I showed interest in his military career. 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobKnoss 0 #40090 May 14, 2013 ***Blevins: You say "I don't understand why people poke fun at the idea that Cooper may have backed down the stairs and just pulled the ripcord at the end. Carrying the load DB was packing, and the stairs only dropping 24-36 inches on release. What would YOU do? Bend over REAL low and hope the stairs don't drop suddenly? Hmm. I'm not a skydiver, but if you weren't expecting the stairs to open so little, and it happened, (*surprise, Cooper!*) I'm turning AROUND and taking a good hold before trying those stairs. Smile Maybe this is the reason he sounded a little upset in his last com with the cockpit, after the stairs were opened. ('NO!')" I say that I agree with you on backing down the airstairs and also that he pulled the ripcord so that the chute pulled him away from the last stair as it slowly opened. Like we have seen cargo chutes open in some of the video's here in the DropZone. He would have been exposed to about 3 to 4 minutes of the storm he jumped into. Not long enough to freeze to death as the FBI story goes. So, did he make it to the ground alive? yes. Did he survive the shock of the military chute and harness? (Cossey believed it would have been tremendous but he was wrong on many of the things he should have known), yes. Did DB live? Yes and probably walked to his car that was within 15 miles of his landing spot. That is why nothing has been found except at Tina's Bar and that could have been the three bundles of 20's he offered the crew and they refused. He could have stuffed the three bundles into the sack he carried onboard and into his shirt. The bag of 20's could have been blasted out of his shirt and on its way to Tina's Bar. Bob Sailshaw [email protected] Then you are BOTH wrong like Wong Whey. Richard McCoy stated that Duane went down face first to the second from the last stair. When he jumped the stairs came up and hit his right leg. Mac backed down the stairs all the way to the bottom to avoid problems. Weber's leg injuries have been discussed at length. McCoy's only injuries were a small bone broken in his foot which didn't bother him too much, as he walked out of the desert. Duane walked down the clear cut and dug a hole deep enough to bury a milk can. And them's the real facts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #40091 May 14, 2013 listen Mr. no proof, you have no say in anything that goes on in this form. you have been caught many times with deception, stop trying to be what you are not! you want to tell the story but can't back it up. Facts are backed up with proof, not words. you and Jo need lessons on the meaning of FACTS."It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 197 #40092 May 14, 2013 377http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYW08S3dAUs It looks as if the bagged canopies actually contact the 727 fuselage (or come very close) as the lines are stretching out. Not relevant to a ripcord jump, but spooky to watch considering the hot exhaust from the center engine that exits right at the tail cone. If Cooper knew about these Thailand jumps he'd have known that pulling off the stairs was his safest alternative, by far. No tumbling at all and a surprisingly gentle opening shock due to canopy "squidding". I never would have guessed it would deploy so gently without a sleeve. These 727 jump videos really surprised me and I have made a jet jump (freefall from a DC 9-21 in 2006). I am still planning to interview that Vietnamese paratrooper I met. He made military S/L and freefall jumps in Viet Nam and was aware of the sport jumpers in Saigon who used an RVN Sikorsky helo. I want to ask him if he was aware of the Thailand 727 jumps and if he by chance knew Sheridan Peterson who made sport jumps in Saigon. I'll also ask him what if anything he knew about the MAC SOG guys and their ops. If he permits it I will make a video and post a link here. I want to be careful not to ask leading questions. If any of you have question you wish me to ask, post them here. 377 This is exactly why I raised the issue of the engines earlier. We can play 'what if' all day ... and we have. Front first, back first, radio, no radio .... The stairs themselves are a known variable. Perhaps concentrate more on them and stop trying to mind meld with DB Cooper ... until such time as a firm set of facts are known and established. Hey I like whoever is playing around with the format and screen here. I like the new large gezer print! Maybe tomorrow the word THE will take up the whole screen .... the Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #40093 May 14, 2013 Totally incorrect statements: The Boeing had been jumped before Cooper did it. Ask 377 and Snowman. I argued the point till I was blue in the face that Duane and I watched a segment on TV (between 1988 & 1994) showing the Boeing being jumped from in the 1960's. It took awhile, BUT 377 and Snowmman found the clip. For a long time 377 doubted me UNTIL Snowman found the clip! That CLIP is available in this thread! The Boeing had been jumped before and that was very very early on - prior to 1971. In that exercise they slid down and out and hence why Cooper did NOT know how to lower the aft stairs....but, it had been jumped from and it was PUBLIC knowledge but only to a select few individuals. Find the select few and check their backgrounds and you know the connections to Cooper and to Weber! One of the men in the video look a lot like Weber - but it was not Weber. Anyone ever find out who the man was with the funny stance and the white hair infront of the Boeing after or before or after the teams jumped it with the cargos?Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #40094 May 14, 2013 skyjack71 Totally incorrect statements: The Boeing had been jumped before Cooper did it. Ask 377 and Snowman. I argued the point till I was blue in the face that Duane and I watched a segment on TV (between 1988 & 1994) showing the Boeing being jumped from in the 1960's. It took awhile, BUT 377 and Snowmman found the clip. For a long time 377 doubted me UNTIL Snowman found the clip! That CLIP is available in this thread! The Boeing had been jumped before and that was very very early on - prior to 1971. In that exercise they slid down and out and hence why Cooper did NOT know how to lower the aft stairs....but, it had been jumped from and it was PUBLIC knowledge but only to a select few individuals. Find the select few and check their backgrounds and you know the connections to Cooper and to Weber! One of the men in the video look a lot like Weber - but it was not Weber. Anyone ever find out who the man was with the funny stance and the white hair infront of the Boeing after or before or after the teams jumped it with the cargos? I am not wrong. I seen the clip. I didn't see any stairs nor did that tell the speed the plane was traveling. big difference, it was a static line jump. is that what cooper did??? it was similar, but not the same....."It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #40095 May 14, 2013 Quote Robert, why does everyone have to be right on the chutes. how do you know Cossey wasn't told what to say in order for the FBI to make Cooper dead on paper? Quote The stairs can not be locked in place in flight. all the internal parts were damaged. The FBI test shows the stairs going back up because they pushed the sled down the stairs. another picture shows a guy on the stairs but it's not full extended. Have absolutely NO idea where you guys found that information. The same plane was used - but NO place have I read that the internal locks or parts were damaged. The did LOCK them in place for the test. It is also possible they were damaged when the plane landed as the stairway did hit the ground but it was my understanding no real damage. I talked extensively with the Co-pilot about this yrs ago and with Mr. H. For some reason this thread has BECOME absolutely a bunch of garbage and the facts have been distorted. Since the major distortion of the facts are Georger, Robert99 and then others - Makes on wonder what is going on. NONE of you are making one IOTA of sense lately. All you guys are currently doing is probagating myths - it is like the FACTS never existed! Seems the only goal of this thread now is to distort any truths to the point of NO return. Dear God help the young people who yrs from now try to do a thesis on Cooper! I can only imagine how that will read in 2040! Gobbley Gook is all that seems to survive on this thread!Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #40096 May 14, 2013 Jo, they couldn't have locked the stairs, how would they get the stairs to go back up after the sled left the stairs????? you are the one starting myths, nobody seen a watch and yet you want to put Duanes watch in as evidence? myth..."It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #40097 May 14, 2013 mrshutter45Jo, they couldn't have locked the stairs, how would they get the stairs to go back up after the sled left the stairs????? you are the one starting myths, nobody seen a watch and yet you want to put Duanes watch in as evidence? myth... Did I say I was submitting Duane's Watch as "evidence" ? I want to know if the pictures of the watch match any watch that might have been described by any witness!Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #40098 May 14, 2013 nobody seen a watch..........take a picture of his socks while your at it...ya never know you didn't answer the question about the stairs??? also, damaged does not mean inoperable.... "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #40099 May 14, 2013 mrshutter45Jo, they couldn't have locked the stairs, how would they get the stairs to go back up after the sled left the stairs????? you are the one starting myths, nobody seen a watch and yet you want to put Duanes watch in as evidence? myth... There was extensive conversation about this and you are right they did NOT lock the aft for the simulation. BUT the Mechanisms were NOT damaged as one of you stated above. There was another simulation decades later - for a movie - that is the one where they locked the aft because it was a real live person jumping. After all of these yrs even I am getting scrambled on some of the facts. Hell, for all I know at this point maybe the complete incident was a simulation! The videos are in this thread - go look at them for yourselves - back when those who knew supported what they said - like Snowmman and 377.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #40100 May 14, 2013 who are you talking too??????"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
