DB Cooper

[mrshutter45 21]

"To the best of my knowledge, I have not seen previously the Hominid post that Shutter quotes"

Correct, it was not from this thread, it's from the Sleuth site.

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[mrshutter45 21]

377

Quote

170 MPH or Knots? I still find the clip intersting, but, we have trained paratroopers jumping out of the back that has been modified. I stick to my first conclusion of it not being the same. I think the movie "The Pursuit Of DB Cooper" has more similarities in it than the static line jump.....

If Cooper faced forward and pulled while on the stairs, the jump would be very similar to the Thailand S/L jumps. If he did a freefall then they are enormously different.

If I had known about the Thailand 727 jumps and had to jump from a 727 at night with a potentially destabilizing payload, I would have faced forward and pulled while standing on the stairs. GUARANTEED stability. No tumble, no spin. Just some opening shock (actually quite mild judging by the video) and a ride to the ground.

377

I agree with your conclusion, but, it's still not the same jump and I do recall saying it was similar. I know I'm nit picking, but as you mentioned, we don't know exactly how he did it. if not mistaken it appears they slid out of the back,right down the cargo ramp? unlike today you guys dive out?

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[mrshutter45 21]

RobertMBlevins

***Meyer Louie says in part, regarding the murder of Earl Cossey:

'Hmmm... a friend of 30 years is surprised to hear about the divorce of a financially well-to-do friend. Is it just me, or is that a red flag? So, half of the spoils still leaves husband and wife both rich? How many times has that kept anyone from doing dasdardly things to keep it all to themselves. I think you can see who my suspect is.... just thinking out loud....'

You know, Meyer...you came down pretty hard on me for suggesting that Cossey's murder was probably related to a burglary. And then the Woodinville police chief classifies it as such at a recent City Council meeting. I had to sit here and read major frickin' insults from you about that.

Now...you have the nerve to start naming suspects? You are hinting that Cossey's elderly wife had something to do with it? WTH is that all about? You have not a clue from any of the limited information that has been released to even go down that path. At least when I said it was a possible burglary-in-progress, I had something to go on. The cops photographing window latches, for example, and other things around the front door. Those were shown on KIRO-TV. Also, the history of excessive burglaries in Cossey's neighborhood.

I'm not going to give you a hard time as you did to me, but I think you might want to backtrack on that a bit.

Robert99: I agree with you that Hominid is wrong about the placard having nothing to do with the flight path. Too bad it wasn't made of lead, though.
Robert, they only classified something that was already apparent, it didn't change anything. the possibility of someone knowing he has large sums of money calls for the premeditation law to come into play. a charge of Burglary will follow with premeditated murder.

you claimed it was a Burglary gone bad because there were others in the area. if they had intentions of taking money and they killed him in the process, this was not the same crimes that were happening in that area. the main charge will be premeditated murder. big difference.... also, every family member is a suspect, doesn't matter if it was the nicest old lady on the street.

I'm sure 377 can tell more.

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[377 20]

Quote

I agree with your conclusion, but, it's still not the same jump and I do recall saying it was similar. I know I'm nit picking, but as you mentioned, we don't know exactly how he did it. if not mistaken it appears they slid out of the back,right down the cargo ramp? unlike today you guys dive out?

Yes, looks like the Thailand 727 jumpers went out on a ramp or chute, not down any stairs. On the DC 9 I jumped, the stairs were removed and the area was lined with smooth sheet metal to avoid snags and allow 85 jumpers to get out really fast.

Nobody but BK claims to know how Cooper exited. Its all speculative.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Robert99 37]

mrshutter45

"To the best of my knowledge, I have not seen previously the Hominid post that Shutter quotes"

Correct, it was not from this thread, it's from the Sleuth site.

I don't remember seeing it there either.

[mrshutter45 21]

Robert99

***"To the best of my knowledge, I have not seen previously the Hominid post that Shutter quotes"

Correct, it was not from this thread, it's from the Sleuth site.

I don't remember seeing it there either.

check your message box

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[mrshutter45 21]

where does 1-5 fit in with him being a gambler and known to have large sums of money? I asked you once before, if I came to your home to kill you, I have to break and enter your property to kill you. am I a killer or a burglar??

I really don't want to go back and forth all nite with this.....
how a bout waiting to see what really happened??

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[Robert99 37]

mrshutter45

******"To the best of my knowledge, I have not seen previously the Hominid post that Shutter quotes"

Correct, it was not from this thread, it's from the Sleuth site.

I don't remember seeing it there either.

check your message box

Okay, I was thinking of Sluggo's Yahoo blog.

[377 20]

from an old prior post:

Quote

Farflung said: "Any clue about the free fall characteristics of a six inch squared piece of sheet plastic?"

Think about leaves flying in the wind. They don't fly like kites.
A chaotic unstable oscillation. Acts like a parachute actually.
You can simulate a descent rate. The slow descent rate is what gives you travel in the wind direction.

But no lift or anything, like a kite. Or at least very little (only lift from upward wind currents?)

I think Snow's seat of the pants modeling of the placard descent is reasonably accurate but... Decades ago, over the Livermore CA DZ I passed a fluttering candy bar wrapper at about 1800 feet AGL while descending under a C9 round canopy. Doubt if it was tossed from a plane.

[I was first out and nobody had jumped for at least an hour previously. My point is that sometimes light objects with large surface areas can behave unexpectedly in air columns. The placard might have remained aloft longer than expected.]

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[EVickiW 0]

EVickiW

*** Only one iota of anything was ever found (no parachute, no streamer, no briefcase, no moneybag, no loafers -- just the aft door placard) in the search area, and it's been said more than once, "You'd think something would have turned up by now." This is evidence (that's right, the lack of it) that Cooper most likely didn't jump here. Whatever algorithm or procedure was used to determine the jump zone, it was wrong. So, something is amiss. Moreover, the money find at Tena Bar might also indicate the calculations were off -- like maybe by quite a bit way off. Might Cooper have ended up more south and more east than what was originally estimated? Did we get faked out by that pressure bump? Entirely possible......




***as for the body, chute and briefcase, all I can say is it's possible he could be out there or gone into the water, or just walked away........me don't know

***

but does not have the time to figure out this new formatting......

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/05/14/remains-in-colorado-car-identified-as-man-missing-since-187/

http://www.gjsentinel.com/breaking/articles/skeletal-remains-near-gateway-linked-to-26-year-old-case/






Sometimes people "disappear" and they could be closer than you would have ever imagined.


Thanks Vicki......and Howdy

Howdy ....... Right back at ya!

Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs

[mrshutter45 21]

RobertMBlevins

***where does 1-5 fit in with him being a gambler and known to have large sums of money? I asked you once before, if I came to your home to kill you, I have to break and enter your property to kill you. am I a killer or a burglar??

I really don't want to go back and forth all nite with this.....
how a bout waiting to see what really happened??

Killer or burglar? Oh, both I suppose. Maybe random burglary, maybe planned. You are probably right about the back and forth. I'm not going along with Meyer Louie's Family Planning version of a murder for financial gain until I see an arrest. Cops sure are being tight with the details on this one. REALLY tight. No one knows why, either.

yep, lets let a little more time go by and see what pops up, if a reasonable time passes, then perhaps it will be time to say WTF.....

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[Robert99 37]

RobertMBlevins

***where does 1-5 fit in with him being a gambler and known to have large sums of money? I asked you once before, if I came to your home to kill you, I have to break and enter your property to kill you. am I a killer or a burglar??

I really don't want to go back and forth all nite with this.....
how a bout waiting to see what really happened??

Killer or burglar? Oh, both I suppose. Maybe random burglary, maybe planned. You are probably right about the back and forth. I'm not going along with Meyer Louie's Family Planning version of a murder for financial gain until I see an arrest. One reason is because of the mailing of the credit cards and ID back to Cossey's house.

Cops sure are being tight with the details on this one. REALLY tight. No one knows why, either.

It is not very likely that it was the burglar who mailed the ID and credit cards back. It was probably just someone who found them in the brush somewhere and thought they had been lost.

[georger 197]

RobertMBlevins

***where does 1-5 fit in with him being a gambler and known to have large sums of money? I asked you once before, if I came to your home to kill you, I have to break and enter your property to kill you. am I a killer or a burglar??

I really don't want to go back and forth all nite with this.....
how a bout waiting to see what really happened??

Killer or burglar? Oh, both I suppose. Maybe random burglary, maybe planned. You are probably right about the back and forth. I'm not going along with Meyer Louie's Family Planning version of a murder for financial gain until I see an arrest. One reason is because of the mailing of the credit cards and ID back to Cossey's house.

Cops sure are being tight with the details on this one. REALLY tight. No one knows why, either.

RobertMBlevins Investigations should go down to that casino and pump/interview every person in the place for info ... who knows you might solve the case!

[georger 197]

377

from an old prior post:

Quote

Farflung said: "Any clue about the free fall characteristics of a six inch squared piece of sheet plastic?"

Think about leaves flying in the wind. They don't fly like kites.
A chaotic unstable oscillation. Acts like a parachute actually.
You can simulate a descent rate. The slow descent rate is what gives you travel in the wind direction.

But no lift or anything, like a kite. Or at least very little (only lift from upward wind currents?)

I think Snow's seat of the pants modeling of the placard descent is reasonably accurate but... Decades ago, over the Livermore CA DZ I passed a fluttering candy bar wrapper at about 1800 feet AGL while descending under a C9 round canopy. Doubt if it was tossed from a plane.

[I was first out and nobody had jumped for at least an hour previously. My point is that sometimes light objects with large surface areas can behave unexpectedly in air columns. The placard might have remained aloft longer than expected.]

377

Try:

"Free-Fall Rotation and Aerodynamic Motion of Rectangular Plates & Miscellaneous Shapes ...", SC-RR-68-132, Parts A & B, August 1968 rev 1978, A.C. Bustamante etal, A.N.S.D. 9510.

[377 20]

Nice one Georger! Dr. Science is in da house.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 197]

RobertMBlevins

******from an old prior post:

Quote

Farflung said: "Any clue about the free fall characteristics of a six inch squared piece of sheet plastic?"

Think about leaves flying in the wind. They don't fly like kites.
A chaotic unstable oscillation. Acts like a parachute actually.
You can simulate a descent rate. The slow descent rate is what gives you travel in the wind direction.

But no lift or anything, like a kite. Or at least very little (only lift from upward wind currents?)

I think Snow's seat of the pants modeling of the placard descent is reasonably accurate but... Decades ago, over the Livermore CA DZ I passed a fluttering candy bar wrapper at about 1800 feet AGL while descending under a C9 round canopy. Doubt if it was tossed from a plane.

[I was first out and nobody had jumped for at least an hour previously. My point is that sometimes light objects with large surface areas can behave unexpectedly in air columns. The placard might have remained aloft longer than expected.]

377

Try:

"Free-Fall Rotation and Aerodynamic Motion of Rectangular Plates & Miscellaneous Shapes ...", SC-RR-68-132, Parts A & B, August 1968 rev 1978, A.C. Bustamante etal, A.N.S.D. 9510.

You really like to show people how smart you are, don't you?

It's like a drug to you I've noticed. Education without common sense is like learning to drive - and then living someplace where there aren't any cars.

I'm not in the investigation business. I only did that once. If you want someone to question people at the casino, ask The Investigator. I got enough to do.

Oh! So you were going to investigate at the casino anyway.

Orange hair might help?

[georger 197]

377

Nice one Georger! Dr. Science is in da house.

377

The research predates the placard find but was updated after
1978.. its an interesting read. Credit once again goes to Hominid.

[skyjack71 0]

Shutter Stated:

Quote

The location of the placard tells us almost nothing about the flightpath. An analysis based on the placard's drag coefficient being unity is worthless for several reasons, including the fact that the placard very likely was bent and certainly would have picked up a heavy load of ice after falling the first 2000 feet.

Jo ASKS:
Loaded with ice - just where in the HELL did you get that information.
No WAY! The temperatures did NOT get to that point at all!

Shutter Stated:

Quote

The money find tells us something significant about the flightpath only if we are so stupid as to believe that the plane must have flown over Tena Bar because we don't understand how the money could have gotten there otherwise.

Jo STATE:
Finally making some sense to old folks.


Well, the rest of the post just flew WAY over my head - didn't understand one darn word!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[mrshutter45 21]

If you read the post correctly you would notice I didn't say this.......

Jo, he is talking about the temps at 10,000 not the temp on the ground....

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[Robert99 37]

377

from an old prior post:

Quote

Farflung said: "Any clue about the free fall characteristics of a six inch squared piece of sheet plastic?"

Think about leaves flying in the wind. They don't fly like kites.
A chaotic unstable oscillation. Acts like a parachute actually.
You can simulate a descent rate. The slow descent rate is what gives you travel in the wind direction.

But no lift or anything, like a kite. Or at least very little (only lift from upward wind currents?)

I think Snow's seat of the pants modeling of the placard descent is reasonably accurate but... Decades ago, over the Livermore CA DZ I passed a fluttering candy bar wrapper at about 1800 feet AGL while descending under a C9 round canopy. Doubt if it was tossed from a plane.

[I was first out and nobody had jumped for at least an hour previously. My point is that sometimes light objects with large surface areas can behave unexpectedly in air columns. The placard might have remained aloft longer than expected.]

377

In desert areas, sky trash is quite common. Dust devils can be extremely strong and suck debris into the air with the lighter debris, such as newspapers, continuing on upwards to considerable heights.

I once spent several minutes at over 7000 feet above ground level trying to snag a four page piece of a newspaper on my sailplane's wing. However, it always managed to get out of my way and I wasn't able to catch it. I did get close enough to conclude that it was from that morning's newspaper, which I had already read.

Robert99

[skyjack71 0]

Robert 99 Stated:

Quote

But Hominid's claim that the placard does not tell us anything about the airliner's flight path is nonsense. And the same goes for his remarks about the money found at Tina Bar.

Robert 99 and YOU are WHO. You would dispute the word of Homid! The money found at Tena's bar had NOTHING to do with the flight path!
PERHAPS Homid knows things YOU know nothing of! You Think?

You pop off at me about things and make ridiculous statements - and I often wonder how much you had to drink before you made such postings.

Me I am OLD and I take medication and I DO TRY to stay out of the technical postings. JUST what QUALIFIES you to make some of the statements you make? A few tips of the elbow probably!

Did U even read the post about JN.
Well, perhaps you should read some of it. I was not feeling well, but I did try to tell about some of the things that have been going on - not that any of that would be of concern to U.

The pictures have been made (by a professional) and the cards are being printed so I can send them to the FBI.

These should go out by mid wk next week if I do not have problems. The postage will be expensive. NO answer from any of the agents and then the pics go to the media - maybe Tina will see them! Can't tell anyone what the pics are of...damn sure isn't Duane Weber. Perhaps the pic will just make a fool out of me, but it is SOMETHING I HAVE TO DO!

Perhaps I will enlist Bruce to make a personal delivery to Tina! Not really, but ONE could be sure she would see them that way. Depending on the FBI is NOT a good thing!

U guys were NOT interested in the Salt Lake photos! Well, perhaps U should have paid more atttention!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Robert99 37]

georger

The research predates the placard find but was updated after
1978.. its an interesting read. Credit once again goes to Hominid.

Congratulations to you fellows on your literature research and findings! Now do you understand how space programs apply to the search for Cooper?

[377 20]

Quote

Congratulations to you fellows on your literature research and findings! Now do you understand how space programs apply to the search for Cooper?

Don't laugh. Snowmman found official docs about use of the SR 71 to look for Cooper. Really.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Robert99 37]

skyjack71

Robert 99 Stated:

Quote

But Hominid's claim that the placard does not tell us anything about the airliner's flight path is nonsense. And the same goes for his remarks about the money found at Tina Bar.

Robert 99 and YOU are WHO. You would dispute the word of Homid! The money found at Tena's bar had NOTHING to do with the flight path!
PERHAPS Homid knows things YOU know nothing of! You Think?

You pop off at me about things and make ridiculous statements - and I often wonder how much you had to drink before you made such postings.

Jo, First I don't drink at all, nor do I smoke or snort. I'll leave those to you.

Second, you obviously don't understand what I was saying in that quote above. I am going to write the following in big letters so perhaps you can read them better and understand what I was saying:

I WAS SAYING, IN YOUR QUOTE ABOVE, THAT THE PLACARD AND MONEY FOUND AT TINA BAR WERE DEFINITELY SIGNIFICANT IN DETERMINING THE FLIGHT PATH OF THE HIJACKED AIRLINER.

In case you don't remember, Hominid was saying that they were not significant.

I fully understand that you are claiming the money was planted at Tina Bar by Duane. I assume that you are still claiming that the flight path was EAST of Portland and that the placard blew UPWIND to the location where it was found.

Have you found a believer for your scenario yet?

Robert99

[Amazon 7]

mrshutter45

If you read the post correctly you would notice I didn't say this.......

Jo, he is talking about the temps at 10,000 not the temp on the ground....

Storms that blow in from the SW in November around here usually have one characteristic that skydivers would notice.. since we believe that flying.. is not done from within an airplane. Those air masses that blow in are called the Hawaiian Express for a reason.. huge mass of warm wet air that is usually fairly warm throughout the lower atmosphere and blows the shit out of the usual 3 degrees per thousand feet of temperature drop that is extant in a normal air mass.