skyjack71 0 #39001 March 30, 2013 Quoteok, but if it was a Park Avenue, it still had the newer 3 point belt in it.... The old lap belts started disappearing in the mid 80's even with everything said Jo, I will still look something up for you if needed. all you have to do is ask, my beliefs of who Cooper is or was does not reflect what I think about you as a person Jo...... I think the KEY word is STARTED and NOT mandatory. THe Pontiac I bought in 1984 or 1985 (BRAND NEW did NOT have anything but the hip belt). I am positive the Park Avenues did NOT have them either. 99.99% sure! Most indiviudal did NOT want them till they became MANDATORY.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 197 #39002 March 30, 2013 Quote Quote NOT anything I want to introduce on the thread. Should I do so then there will be others posting pictures of their suspect with this or that item! I just do NOT want to go public without 1st confronting the FBI with this stuff...or at least being able to present the items to Tina. I do NOT expect she remembers anything - it was 3 hours out of her life and she was scared to death inside. Quote For whatever it's worth Jo~ Why not just throw it all against the wall & see what sticks? Want to 'pressure' the FBI...go public with what you have. Worried about someone 'else' working that angle...so what if they do, the idea is to solve this, maybe you will with some idea or info you're holding back. There comes a point in the game where direction is no longer important.....just throw the damn ball! Robert replies: Airtwardo is RIGHT. Better to try than to not try at all. The idea (I thought) was to solve the case, not 'prove' that one fave suspect should be forced into a mold not necessarily made for him. (Or 'her,' I suppose...in the case of Bobby Dayton Check this: I had people actually get pissed off because we sent those pics/docs/report on KC to the Seattle FBI. But here's the deal...If they ever choose to investigate the witnesses there are only two possible conclusions: 1) They would discover KC was Cooper, probably because someone or other finally spills the beans. 2) They will be able to determine that some things were just coincidence, and the other evidence can be explained by non-criminal means. In other words, KC wasn't the guy. Believe it or not, either result works for me. At least we would know the truth. Sure, I would be a little disappointed with a negative result, but I'm not stupid. I knew the chances that this ONE guy was THE guy were always very small, no matter the evidence. Very small chance. I don't care about somehow 'proving' KC was Cooper if he wasn't. I only care about the truth. The report is evidence of that. No secrets, no BS, just all available info, names, addresses, phone numbers of the principals. What it does in reality is make it possible to discover the truth. That's ALL. So yes, I agree with the idea that presenting whatever you have on a suspect in total is the best approach. What good are secrets and ambiguities? Answer: ZERO. 'If you can't be an example, serve as a warning...' (From an article about Lindsay Lohan) Another editorial by the truther-seeker, RobertMBlevins. Whoever he is! (From an article about Lindsay Lohan) Must be a Full Moon tonight. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #39003 March 30, 2013 Quote Quote ok, but if it was a Park Avenue, it still had the newer 3 point belt in it.... The old lap belts started disappearing in the mid 80's even with everything said Jo, I will still look something up for you if needed. all you have to do is ask, my beliefs of who Cooper is or was does not reflect what I think about you as a person Jo...... I think the KEY word is STARTED and NOT mandatory. THe Pontiac I bought in 1984 or 1985 (BRAND NEW did NOT have anything but the hip belt). I am positive the Park Avenues did NOT have them either. 99.99% sure! Most indiviudal did NOT want them till they became MANDATORY. Sorry Jo, but the only thing you are correct about is the 1984/85. The Park Avenue was also equipped with airbags yours was used, I bet 100% they had the 3 point belts in it Jo... 27314.5. (a) (1) Subject to paragraph (3), no dealer shall sell or offer for sale any used passenger vehicle of a model year of 1972 to 1990, inclusive, unless there is affixed to the window of the left front door or, if there is no window, to another suitable location so that it may be seen and read by a person standing outside the vehicle at that location, a notice, printed in 14-point type, which reads as follows: "WARNING: While use of all seat belts reduces the chance of ejection, failure to install and use shoulder harnesses with lap belts can result in serious or fatal injuries in some crashes. Lap-only belts increase the chance of head and neck injury by allowing the upper torso to move unrestrained in a crash and increase the chance of spinal column and abdominal injuries by concentrating excessive force on the lower torso. Because children carry a disproportionate amount of body weight above the waist, they are more likely to sustain those injuries. Shoulder harnesses may be available that can be retrofitted in this vehicle. For more information call the Auto Safety Hotline at 1-800-424-9393." past 1990 they all had 3 point belts.....Now I'm done! "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert99 37 #39004 March 30, 2013 Quote Quote Quote ok, but if it was a Park Avenue, it still had the newer 3 point belt in it.... The old lap belts started disappearing in the mid 80's even with everything said Jo, I will still look something up for you if needed. all you have to do is ask, my beliefs of who Cooper is or was does not reflect what I think about you as a person Jo...... I think the KEY word is STARTED and NOT mandatory. THe Pontiac I bought in 1984 or 1985 (BRAND NEW did NOT have anything but the hip belt). I am positive the Park Avenues did NOT have them either. 99.99% sure! Most indiviudal did NOT want them till they became MANDATORY. Sorry Jo, but the only thing you are correct about is the 1984/85. The Park Avenue was also equipped with airbags yours was used, I bet 100% they had the 3 point belts in it Jo... 27314.5. (a) (1) Subject to paragraph (3), no dealer shall sell or offer for sale any used passenger vehicle of a model year of 1972 to 1990, inclusive, unless there is affixed to the window of the left front door or, if there is no window, to another suitable location so that it may be seen and read by a person standing outside the vehicle at that location, a notice, printed in 14-point type, which reads as follows: "WARNING: While use of all seat belts reduces the chance of ejection, failure to install and use shoulder harnesses with lap belts can result in serious or fatal injuries in some crashes. Lap-only belts increase the chance of head and neck injury by allowing the upper torso to move unrestrained in a crash and increase the chance of spinal column and abdominal injuries by concentrating excessive force on the lower torso. Because children carry a disproportionate amount of body weight above the waist, they are more likely to sustain those injuries. Shoulder harnesses may be available that can be retrofitted in this vehicle. For more information call the Auto Safety Hotline at 1-800-424-9393." past 1990 they all had 3 point belts.....Now I'm done! Jo, Mrshutter is correct. I bought a new 1984 model Ford Ranger pick-up truck in late 1983. In early 1986, I was driving that truck when a drunk driver hit me almost head on. In the resulting metal crunching, and with me and the truck also going end-over-end through a ditch, the Ford three-point belt system paid for itself. I ended up with a lot of bruises from the restraint system and a lot of stitches in my head from hitting various parts of a crushed cab, but I still credit Ford with the fact that I am still breathing and didn't get my neck broken. Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #39005 March 31, 2013 Mine had the blue interior with the same veneers on the doors, but the leather seats did NOT have the narrow ribs on the models you post. My son-in-law who sold me the car has not been available and I do NOT know if he will remember the yr of the auto. I acquired it to replace the Pontiac I gave my daughter. Hard to remember the yrs of the cars. It has been a lot of yrs, but I really do NOT remember it having the narrow ribs in the leather seat or the 3 point saftey belt. I have checked all of the old records and the tax reports did NOT require the yr or make on the autos - just the mileage. This is a mute point....at least to me, but a curiousity! The car I gave my daughter had lots of miles on it and I needed a better car to sell real estate. Hence he found the Park Avenue and it looked like new with low mileage one owner and garage kept. I acquired it in 1997 if I remember correctly I stated 1996 before, but I had the Pontiac the 1st yr selling Real Estate. The accident was in 2000 only a couple of wks after the article appeared in the U.S. News and World Reports.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #39006 March 31, 2013 Jo, the 3 point seat belt has been around a lot longer than I thought! 1959 to be exact, past 1990 they had them, no further question about it! they were well on there way in the late 70's. I doubt anything will change your mind unless I find your car! enjoy these pics....."It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #39007 March 31, 2013 Quote I bought a new 1984 model Ford Ranger pick-up truck in late 1983. In early 1986, I was driving that truck when a drunk driver hit me almost head on. In the resulting metal crunching, and with me and the truck also going end-over-end through a ditch, the Ford three-point belt system paid for itself. I ended up with a lot of bruises from the restraint system and a lot of stitches in my head from hitting various parts of a crushed cab, but I still credit Ford with the fact that I am still breathing and didn't get my neck broken. Robert99 When My sister retrieved me from the hospital several days later I wanted to see the car. The tow company had kept my personal possession safe for me and had contacted me in the hospital to let me know that. At one time there were pictures of the vehicle (supposedly the insurance company). I loved that CAR - and by all rights I should. It saved my life!. The Park Avenue was the most comfortable car ever. (U could just sink down in it). The kid glove leather seats felt so soft and plush. NOW the new car seats are hard as rocks - maybe it is just my OLD bones - U think? We need to move on to Cooper now.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #39008 March 31, 2013 what have you found out about the tower you have looked for. just give me the info about the position of where you think it was and what type of tower. (look out tower electrical, signal etc) I'll do my best to locate it....."It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #39009 March 31, 2013 Quotewhat have you found out about the tower you have looked for. just give me the info about the position of where you think it was and what type of tower. (look out tower electrical, signal etc) I'll do my best to locate it..... Depends on which tower you are talking about. The tower that was and then wasn't or the 2 towers which I assume it was sandwiched in between. Would prefer to do this by private emails - not in the thread. There is a lot of what is now private property in the area and NO need to buy trouble. Remember the area Sluggo's pen was pointed at - almost dead on. I have been on the computers and never found anything regarding forestry (private owned lumber company towers) which is what I think it was. IT was there in 1971 and not there in 1979. Sandwich that between to large tower whose signals you could see from a long ways. Triangulate that with the VOR. Just one half of the marquise - the rest I believe was just co-incidental or his way of heading away from the area if he did NOT have transportation stashed in the area. I believe he may have had help. Was Weber the help and did Cooper not survive. If that is the senario then I might know where Cooper's bones are and perhaps other evidence. I only say that from the ODD remark Duane Weber made at a sight removed from the above sites...and South of those sites. Check the old cemetery records for an unusual designations - I found it yrs ago by contacting the county of the cemetery, but NO longer know where they are. A grave site paid for but NO marker. Deceased Nov. 24, 1971. It was ODD. Duane told me he knew someone buried in that cemetery. Have NO idea where that information is in all the paper files of research (paper and more paper). Boxes of it stored away from the house - too much to keep or to remember, but I didn't know how and didn't trust computers - still don't. YRS ago I shared this with Jerry Thomas and he dissed me. I gave him the specifics at that time. This way before I knew he was NOT really looking for Cooper - just a game or was he part of another game altogether? It was prior to 2000. I shared that info with him during the 1st 3 yrs of my search under the guidance of & recommendations Mr. H. Anything buried in that cemetery could be relocated to the very area that JT toots and the testing might then declare the remains had been in the WASHOUGAL SHED as JT claimed. Strange Duane made both statements but did NOT take me directly to the Cemetary. When I was in WA in 2010 - 2 yrs + ago --- I was not sure I found the right cemetary - things had changed so much and it was pouring cats and dogs...not a good day for walking an old cemetary. I made posts about this WAY back...with more detail. Now all I have is my memory and my finger tips. Eyes not good enough to go thur the research to even try to find it. If you want more details than this U know where the phone is. I could read off what is on the map and that would help. Trying to read the map and type does not work. What I do here come off of the top of my head.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #39010 March 31, 2013 QuoteJo, the 3 point seat belt has been around a lot longer than I thought! 1959 to be exact, past 1990 they had them, no further question about it! they were well on there way in the late 70's. I doubt anything will change your mind unless I find your car! enjoy these pics..... If I had them in that Pontiac - I never used them! I had to get in and out of my car 30/40 times a day - from 1988 unit 1994 I did Debit insurance - collecting premiums door to door...the Pontiac took a beating. I bought it brand new in Va. Beach, VA and we left there in 1987 to go to AL and then in 1988 to FL. I believe the Pontiac was bought in 1983/84 because it was paid for before we moved to Fl. in 1988 ...3 yrs was the financing I did. Dark Green with velour upholstery - I had to make a cover for the seat out of a slippery dull satin fabric so I could SLIDE in and OUT! Nothing important because it has NOTHING to do with ANYTHING! Something you do everyday you forget or shouldn't forget - but, I am certain it did NOT have the shoulder belt. The BONNEVILLE - I am in limbo about that one - you have created DOUBT in my mind about the Park Avenue, but I did NOT sell insurance out of it. A total different kind of clientel. Wasn't getting in and out of it 40/50 times a day. Wearing suits to work in - if it had the belt across the chest - you can bet I didn't use it! Would NOT want to mess up that suit jacket to make a presentation in. Now I would not drive out of the drive way without my seat belt on. I know it had the air bag because that is what broke my glasses frames and drove them into my eye and my nose. I think that is what cut me and not the windshield but the windshield did break and my left window....shattered. I had the one cut on my eye and MY frames where destroyed, but the lens remained intact. This wreck thing it is making a WRECK out of me. Find the fricking towers - lets move on if I linger on the damn wreck I will be afraid to make a trip to Sam's or the Dr. and those are 28 miles away in traffic.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
377 20 #39011 March 31, 2013 Jo wroteQuoteYRS ago I shared this with Jerry Thomas and he dissed me. I gave him the specifics at that time. This way before I knew he was NOT really looking for Cooper - just a game or was he part of another game altogether? Jo, Jerry is looking for Cooper just as earnestly as you are. You may dislike him and distrust him but that doesn't discredit the searching he has been doing. There is no coverup or conspiracy to hide DBCs identity. It's a real mystery even to the FBI. 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 197 #39012 March 31, 2013 Cooper Stuff: I sent a PM to 377 a couple of days ago suggesting that it might be possible to compare known images of different sized paracord to the images of the Amboy chute. Purpose: To determine whether the chute is a cargo chute, or a personal one. I know paracord comes in different thicknesses, mostly metric I think, depending on the intended use. Maybe some side-by-side comparison pictures would work here. I think we can agree that anything 6mm or above on the Amboy chute would disqualify it from Cooper Consideration. (?) Why this continuing doubt about identifying a cargo chute? Can't people here identify a parachute, including 377 who know everything about parachutes but who has remained totally silent since the Amboy chute photos were published? Why this void for editorialists like you to wallow around in? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
377 20 #39013 March 31, 2013 I've looked closely at the various photos of the Amboy chute. I can't tell if it is a personnel or cargo canopy. I'd be able to determine that easily if I could physically examine it. I don't think photo analysis of shroud line dianeter will be accurate enough to answer the question. The canopy is indeed a mystery, but I don't think it's DBCs. One reason is the date of mfr. Way too old. The next is fabric type, twill not ripstop. Twill, especially old twill that might have degraded, is dangerous to jump. Early skydivers died when surplus 24 foot twill reserves ripped from skirt to apex on terminal openings. Cossey as a licensed rigger wouldn't be packing a dangerous canopy in a one chute emergency bailout rig. And... If it were DBCs chute it would be VERY valuable and Cossey might be able to claim ownership. He wouldn't pass up that opportunity. The Amboy lines are cut hinting that it wasnt completely extracted from the ground. What lies below unexcavated? 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 197 #39014 March 31, 2013 Quote Quote I've looked closely at the various photos of the Amboy chute. I can't tell if it is a personnel or cargo canopy. I'd be able to determine that easily if I could physically examine it. I don't think photo analysis of shroud line dianeter will be accurate enough to answer the question. The canopy is indeed a mystery, but I don't think it's DBCs. One reason is the date of mfr. Way too old. The next is fabric type, twill not ripstop. Twill, especially old twill that might have degraded, is dangerous to jump. Early skydivers died when surplus 24 foot twill reserves ripped from skirt to apex on terminal openings. Cossey as a licensed rigger wouldn't be packing a dangerous canopy in a one chute emergency bailout rig. And... If it were DBCs chute it would be VERY valuable and Cossey might be able to claim ownership. He wouldn't pass up that opportunity. The Amboy lines are cut hinting that it wasnt completely extracted from the ground. What lies below unexcavated? 377 And yet...if Cossey wouldn't have done this or that...then WHY does he claim in several sources that the canopy is silk? Silk, like cotton, is biodegradable. Now I know we've discussed this before, but I have accidentally dug up recently buried trash here and there in the Northwest. One, two years old maybe, at heavily used camping sites. When you find anything clothing-related that isn't made of nylon or polyester, it's rotted to total shreds. Some of this could be due to the inherent moisture in the ground in W. Washington, and the heavy rains. If the canopy were really made of silk as Cossey claims, and if were buried unpacked for decades, you would expect much more damage to it. Big, gaping holes...extreme rotting perhaps. I will take Cossey's word over yours - any day of the week! To put it mildly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobKnoss 0 #39015 March 31, 2013 "Cossey as a licensed rigger wouldn't be packing a dangerous canopy in a one chute emergency bailout rig." Cossey did not pack the chute 'Cooper' jumped with. It was packed in 1968 and put in storage. I heard the xxx guy describe how he put it in Cooper's storage... "I packed my chute for you and put it in your locker.... I put three X's on the front and sewed it shut. Look at the stitching so you can recognize if anyone has tampered with it.... I put it in over the top. Those places were meant to keep things in, not keep things out." (Wherever that was.) These are just a few excerps from an extended conversation on our front lawn in 1968. I have the FULL conversation. And I have 50 more pages of quotes from training sessions like this. That is what really happened. Not this fairy tale that keeps expanding like the national debt. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #39016 March 31, 2013 The only thing you pack, is a bunch of BS!"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobKnoss 0 #39017 April 1, 2013 QuoteThe only thing you pack, is a bunch of BS! You are just jealous. You know nothing. You want everyone to know nothing. I know most all of it. Must be a few things I don't know, however. Like why you think you know so much when you are always incorrect. Funny that way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #39018 April 1, 2013 right Knoss, how is Mac....oops, I'm sorry he is dead isn't he..... Bob Knoss 7/15/2006 "Mac gave me two pictures of himself before he died and authorized their use for specific purposes.." but yet you claim you talk to him still. wrong again, right Knoss. the rock you crawled out of is calling you back Knoss, Run Knoss, Ruuuuun..."It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobKnoss 0 #39019 April 1, 2013 Quoteright Knoss, how is Mac....oops, I'm sorry he is dead isn't he..... Bob Knoss 7/15/2006 "Mac gave me two pictures of himself before he died and authorized their use for specific purposes.." but yet you claim you talk to him still. wrong again, right Knoss. the rock you crawled out of is calling you back Knoss, Run Knoss, Ruuuuun... Yup. Dead twice at least. Speaks very distinctly for a dead guy. Good healthy belly laugh too. He's laughing at you! Weird sense of humor, huh? He wanted to see the look on the Agents' faces when they got his messages/pictures, etc. You are a choice example of over-reaction to a leak of the real facts. Bite your lip. Facts is facts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #39020 April 1, 2013 Facts are proven, you have never proven anything Bobby. how is Dave Haapala's "communication" biz, oops, not true again. funny in April of 2012 you said only one X was on the pack" wrong again Bobby."It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobKnoss 0 #39021 April 1, 2013 QuoteFacts are proven, you have never proven anything Bobby. how is Dave Haapala's "communication" biz, oops, not true again. funny in April of 2012 you said only one X was on the pack" wrong again Bobby. Facts don't change, only your rendition of them. Twist things to satisfy your warped sense of justice. Sorry, fella. You are ALWAYS wrong. I might vary a bit now and then, but I'm always doing the best I can to relay what is correct. You are a roadblock to the truth. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #39022 April 1, 2013 Big Al, you can't "vary" remember you have a super memory! you were the "record keeper"....strange how you "vary" more often than remembering..... "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #39023 April 1, 2013 I think that gubbmint shipment from the MKULTRA sustainability project must have arrived before the first of the month. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #39024 April 1, 2013 Quote I think that gubbmint shipment from the MKULTRA sustainability project must have arrived before the first of the month. "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobKnoss 0 #39025 April 1, 2013 Quote Quote I think that gubbmint shipment from the MKULTRA sustainability project must have arrived before the first of the month. Would that they could. No drugs were used on me, just hypnosis by a certain Dr. Black. Follow the Dr. and the lawyer and you will find the sequence of events. From Ray to Duane to Jim Jones and all over the place. But that truth is too far out for you stuck-in-the-mud nay sayers. I'm not the only voice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
