DB Cooper

Robert99 · April 4, 2013

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ONE time Duane showed me a picture it was of a group of guys infront of a plane. Duane said he was in that picture. I thought it was a joke! The picture if I am correct was of the Johnson Guys, but there was NO detail in the pic.

This was around 1984...when he made this comment.

He claimed to have know the guys in the attached picture around that same time.

Photo recognitions with Duane's navy pic - indicates one of the men is possibly Duane L. Weber and not either of the names provided by the book the pic was in. ONE name never existed and the other's family said their uncle was NEVER in Camino or CA.

Jo, You can't put Duane even in a picture that he claimed to be in. You can't say for sure that he was a smoke jumper or even knew a smoke jumper. You also can't put him in a parachute, in the Pacific Northwest, or even on the planet in 1971.

I may be biased, but I think your case for claiming Duane was Cooper is full of holes and a bunch of baloney.

Robert99

skyjack71 · April 4, 2013

ROBERT THEN POSTED IN 42056:
THIS STATEMENT:

"You can ignore Jo Weber's response above since she thinks Smoke Jumpers operated about like a US Army Airborne Division."

JO WEBER THEN REPLIED:

"ROBERT U ARE WRONG! Smokejumpers - did have equipment dropped with a separate chute - AND one was just quoted to U. Mann Gluch.
Perhaps U need to READ the books I have read!

Weber did NOT need to be a smokejumper - but in close association with jumpers and worked in the camps and with the forestry. U let too much trivia get in YOUR way!

I am not a precise poster, but I do recall what I have read. Since this is a MUTE point U need to go back and read a couple of post I made above. Cooper is NOT about Smokejumpers or forestry or espionage or coverts.

U dwelled too much on precise language - U need to look at all of the story.

I have better things to do than look up books and post and recited them to U.

As I tried to say before I am moving on and made some statements that only one person in this thread might even have a clue what the postings tonight are all about!

If U do not read the clarity of my posting tonight then U sir have NOT a clue about this case nor Cooper nor the background of Duane L. Weber - aka Johnnie Collins. Johnnie and that damn peanut jar!

I leave U with a riddle and all of the solutions - U figure them out, but U will probably not get it until the STORY is put right in front of U. Sorry, but I came here with mission tonight and it was not to argue with U or anyone else. Merrily to make statements about what I do know."

skyjack71 · April 4, 2013

U ROBERT used the WRONG POSTS. ANYONE going back can see WHO wrote what, but U made it sound LIKE U said it, but that is NOT what the posting state!

WHEN u make a MISTAKE don't try to pass the BUCK! NOT on this thread! THERE WILL be someone there brilliant enough to CATCH what U do and HOW U took MY statement AS your statement!

DO NOT critize others for what U yourself did! ADMIT u made a mistake and MOVE on! DO not take credit for the research of OTHERS and that includes myself!

skyjack71 · April 4, 2013

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But the early Smoke Jumpers basically only had hand tools to fight the fires.

Robert99

How EARLY are U speaking of?
By 1948 they were dropping cargo to the jumpers and forestry. Perhaps U need to READ up on the NICKLES!

ROBERT, you actually think I am an idiot or you are deliberately TRYING to distort truths!

How much are they paying U?

Jo, Google "Smoke Jumper" and see what turns up. The Forest Service in the USA started using smoke jumpers in 1939.

As I pointed out in my original post and repeatedly since then, equipment was parachuted to the smoke jumpers from the start.

You really do need to start reading the posts that you later misquote.

Robert99

U cannot keep up with WHO posted WHAT! U take credit for STATEMENTS I made. U do YOUR HISTORY research. There were smoke jumpers prior to Derry training them to use his chutes - which were designed to prevent the tangles in the trees and to allow them to release themselves.

PLEASE stop trying to back step to cover up your own errors. What U did was take MY statement and used it as YOURS!

Robert99 · April 5, 2013

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But the early Smoke Jumpers basically only had hand tools to fight the fires.

Robert99

How EARLY are U speaking of?
By 1948 they were dropping cargo to the jumpers and forestry. Perhaps U need to READ up on the NICKLES!

ROBERT, you actually think I am an idiot or you are deliberately TRYING to distort truths!

How much are they paying U?

Jo, Google "Smoke Jumper" and see what turns up. The Forest Service in the USA started using smoke jumpers in 1939.

As I pointed out in my original post and repeatedly since then, equipment was parachuted to the smoke jumpers from the start.

You really do need to start reading the posts that you later misquote.

Robert99

U cannot keep up with WHO posted WHAT! U take credit for STATEMENTS I made. U do YOUR HISTORY research. There were smoke jumpers prior to Derry training them to use his chutes - which were designed to prevent the tangles in the trees and to allow them to release themselves.

PLEASE stop trying to back step to cover up your own errors. What U did was take MY statement and used it as YOURS!

JO, READ THE FOLLOWING WHEN YOU HAVE A CLEAR MIND AND CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE READING!

Jo, You need to pay attention to what I posted. My original post was #42047 and I repeated that number in post #42056 where I told you to go back and read post #42047.

In post #42047, I stated that smoke jumpers had used parachutes for dropping their equipment. They had been doing that since 1939 when the smoke jumpers were organized in the USA.

By your own statement, you are not a "precise" poster. And you have indicated that the words in your posts are secondary to your intentions, whatever that means.

IT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA TO POST ONLY WHEN YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE DOING!

Robert99

MeyerLouie · April 5, 2013

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Personally I don't think smoke jumpers fit Cooper's profile. These guys
were cautious about things, they took risks, but not when it to came
to safety. these guys looked like they were going to a fencing match!
I just can't see one jumping out of a plane over a wooded area with
with plain clothes and loafers.....

PERHAPS Cooper was NOT a jumper, but the WORLD GREATEST JOCK CARRIER could also have been a SPOTTER! Need someone with an EAGLE EYE - and DUANE was very good regarding distance and spotting things VERY FAR way. He was a crack shot with a pistol and a rife!

ONE time Duane showed me a picture it was of a group of guys infront of a plane. Duane said he was in that picture. I thought it was a joke! The picture if I am correct was of the Johnson Guys, but there was NO detail in the pic.

This was around 1984...when he made this comment.

He claimed to have know the guys in the attached picture around that same time.

Photo recognitions with Duane's navy pic - indicates one of the men is possibly Duane L. Weber and not either of the names provided by the book the pic was in. ONE name never existed and the other's family said their uncle was NEVER in Camino or CA.

__________________________________________________

Vague recollections and fuzzy memories.... here we go again, Jo. I'm not sure what that accomplishes, and frankly, I find it frustrating. You can't even identify your own Duane (or John) in the picture you posted. If you can't, then is it reasonable to expect that others here can? I don't think that's a reasonable expectation, Jo.

Give us something solid and verifiable -- something tangible to go on. What do you actually know, and what do you actually have in hand? Why not start from that? All of the vague, fuzzy, distant recollections of things that may have happened or not -- well, that's been going nowhere fast, and for a long time. You keep doing what's you always done, you keep getting what you've always got.

MeyerLouie

skyjack71 · April 5, 2013

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But the early Smoke Jumpers basically only had hand tools to fight the fires.

Robert99

How EARLY are U speaking of?
By 1948 they were dropping cargo to the jumpers and forestry. Perhaps U need to READ up on the NICKLES!

ROBERT, you actually think I am an idiot or you are deliberately TRYING to distort truths!

How much are they paying U?

Jo, Google "Smoke Jumper" and see what turns up. The Forest Service in the USA started using smoke jumpers in 1939.

As I pointed out in my original post and repeatedly since then, equipment was parachuted to the smoke jumpers from the start.

You really do need to start reading the posts that you later misquote.

Robert99

U cannot keep up with WHO posted WHAT! U take credit for STATEMENTS I made. U do YOUR HISTORY research. There were smoke jumpers prior to Derry training them to use his chutes - which were designed to prevent the tangles in the trees and to allow them to release themselves.

PLEASE stop trying to back step to cover up your own errors. What U did was take MY statement and used it as YOURS!

JO, READ THE FOLLOWING WHEN YOU HAVE A CLEAR MIND AND CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE READING!

Jo, You need to pay attention to what I posted. My original post was #42047 and I repeated that number in post #42056 where I told you to go back and read post #42047.

In post #42047, I stated that smoke jumpers had used parachutes for dropping their equipment. They had been doing that since 1939 when the smoke jumpers were organized in the USA.

By your own statement, you are not a "precise" poster. And you have indicated that the words in your posts are secondary to your intentions, whatever that means.

IT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA TO POST ONLY WHEN YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE DOING!

Robert99

I READ THEM AND I REPOSTED THEM. U TOOK A STATEMENT I MADE AND FOR SOME REASON CLAIMED IT AS YOUR OWN. U DID NOT MAKE THE STATEMENT - I DID! THEN U ANSWER MY POST USING MY OWN STATEMENT AS YOUR STATEMENT. U HAVE DONE THIS BEFORE - YOU BACK TRACK TO SAVE FACE RATHER THAN ADMIT U MADE A MISTAKE!

Robert99 · April 5, 2013

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JO, READ THE FOLLOWING WHEN YOU HAVE A CLEAR MIND AND CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE READING!

Jo, You need to pay attention to what I posted. My original post was #42047 and I repeated that number in post #42056 where I told you to go back and read post #42047.

In post #42047, I stated that smoke jumpers had used parachutes for dropping their equipment. They had been doing that since 1939 when the smoke jumpers were organized in the USA.

By your own statement, you are not a "precise" poster. And you have indicated that the words in your posts are secondary to your intentions, whatever that means.

IT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA TO POST ONLY WHEN YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE DOING!

Robert99

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I READ THEM AND I REPOSTED THEM. U TOOK A STATEMENT I MADE AND FOR SOME REASON CLAIMED IT AS YOUR OWN. U DID NOT MAKE THE STATEMENT - I DID! THEN U ANSWER MY POST USING MY OWN STATEMENT AS YOUR STATEMENT. U HAVE DONE THIS BEFORE - YOU BACK TRACK TO SAVE FACE RATHER THAN ADMIT U MADE A MISTAKE!

Jo, What in hell are you talking about?

Robert99

georger · April 5, 2013

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Tonight I have read a lot of long posts that somehow try to establish a connection between smoke jumpers and Duane Weber. Okay...no problem, but I have to ask the obvious question, and I will give reasons why.

Question: Did at any time Duane Weber mention personally he was connected to smoke jumping in any way? And if he did, what exactly did he say?

'If you can't be an example, serve as a warning...'
(From an article about Lindsay Lohan)

Snipped all of your kakah ... for the essential -

Shouldn't you ask Lindsay Lohan?

Or her cousin Rudy ?

Or his cousin Merl?

Or his brothers Oivle and Toivle?

Robert99 · April 5, 2013

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Like the Californian turning off their wireless set when they were only a few miles from the Titanic.

Blevins, Don't forget that the Titanic's radio operators were very rude to the Californian's radio operator and ordered him to stay off that frequency. So he turned off his radio and went to bed since it was quite late.

Of course, shortly after that, the Titanic's operators were wishing they had been more civil.

Robert99

skyjack71 · April 5, 2013

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Personally I don't think smoke jumpers fit Cooper's profile. These guys
were cautious about things, they took risks, but not when it to came
to safety. these guys looked like they were going to a fencing match!
I just can't see one jumping out of a plane over a wooded area with
with plain clothes and loafers.....

PERHAPS Cooper was NOT a jumper, but the WORLD GREATEST JOCK CARRIER could also have been a SPOTTER! Need someone with an EAGLE EYE - and DUANE was very good regarding distance and spotting things VERY FAR way. He was a crack shot with a pistol and a rife!

ONE time Duane showed me a picture it was of a group of guys infront of a plane. Duane said he was in that picture. I thought it was a joke! The picture if I am correct was of the Johnson Guys, but there was NO detail in the pic.

This was around 1984...when he made this comment.

He claimed to have know the guys in the attached picture around that same time.

Photo recognitions with Duane's navy pic - indicates one of the men is possibly Duane L. Weber and not either of the names provided by the book the pic was in. ONE name never existed and the other's family said their uncle was NEVER in Camino or CA.

__________________________________________________

Vague recollections and fuzzy memories.... here we go again, Jo. I'm not sure what that accomplishes, and frankly, I find it frustrating. You can't even identify your own Duane (or John) in the picture you posted. If you can't, then is it reasonable to expect that others here can? I don't think that's a reasonable expectation, Jo.

Give us something solid and verifiable -- something tangible to go on. What do you actually know, and what do you actually have in hand? Why not start from that? All of the vague, fuzzy, distant recollections of things that may have happened or not -- well, that's been going nowhere fast, and for a long time. You keep doing what's you always done, you keep getting what you've always got.

MeyerLouie

The picture of guys infront of a plane I saw only that one time. I have seen similar photos but they were not exactly right.

The Camino picture has been discussed before and in detail.
The picture was taken in the Placerville area of CA. Duane showed me this picture in 1984 - it was in a book. He told me he knew the guys in the photo and at the time I thought one of them looked like Duane, but remember in 1984 I had NEVER seen a photo of DUANE WEBER as a young man. He was born in 1924 and we married in 1978. He had NO photos of himself - NONE other than a few shots with the recent exwife at a convention.

The Camion picture I saw in 1984 approx when he brought home a old tattered book about Camino. I never saw the front of the book but the pictures I remember is the one that I later found on line regarding Camino.

The truck was prominent in the photo in the book and not exactly as the one that was on a site about these guys at Camino.

Duane told me he knew the guys and at one time there was a picture of himself in the book but someone had torn it out. Of course he was showing me a pic of himself, but he didn't want to let me know that. I found the names of the guys in the photos and the one that was short was the one he talked about wearing his boots and carrying his guitar everywhere with him Carl Unruh.
He told me that 3 of the guys went to Mt. Hood.

The guy the photo id says was Duane Weber - there were 2 pics on the site and two different name for the same guy. Duane's sister and brother had told me the family tried to get some help for Duane and he was in a camp in Placerville and he was in WA. THE FBI did NOT even question the sister - she had had a heart attack and the brother had NOT see Duane since the 1957 when he took a baseball bat and ordered Duane out of him mothers home. I have a letter the brother wrote me giving me what details he knew about Duane.

Back to the Camino pic. TWO different names were given for the same guy. I spent lots of money tracking these guys - one of the names NEVER EXISTED or he was still alive when I did the SS search. THE other name I found 3 and chased all three down. The only name that was dead on was a man who really did exists - but the family told me the man in the pic was not their uncle and he was never at
Camino. If the FBI thinks they can do a better job - have at it.

CARR would NOT life ONE finger for me on this.

A man at his own expense went into the Placerville area and all of the places Duane talked about. He found the address Duane had mentioned. Because Duane mentioned the town and the address- it stuck with me. I now after all of these yrs and with my age cannot remember it, but I posted about it in DETAIL in this thread when it was all still within in my memory. I am starting to loose some details in the memory and some words. Why this thread is so important - I told the story as the research was happening, but NO one cared.

He tried to find the book that had the photos in it, but we never found it. It was obviously a local thing and with limited editions - just an area thing. He only had the 2 photos - that the site had on it. I had seen both of those photo before...in a book Duane showed me. I never knew what happened to that book and he never allowed me to see anymore than the pages he showed me. Then POOF!

All of the things he told me about those guys - I found was actually true - other than one of the guys never existed except for to different names given.

The photo of what I believe was a group of the Johnson boys - I never found - I found similar photos but not the exact one. I wasn't sure it was the Johnson boys, but I thinks so - because at the time he showed me a picture of a woman sitting on or infront of a plane and told me he used to know her. I thought I found her one time and her brother was a smokejumper but not the right person. I forget the name now. Most of this I posted when it was fresh.

The family knew he went to WA and that he was NOT in McNeal because a family member or friend intervened....the family was well connected in Huntington beach and that part of CA.

I posted a family pic I acquired after Duane died - the one made in CA. when Duane was only about 10 per the age of the sister and the brother. As young men Duane and his brother looked very much alike. IN that old photo the brother was about 22 and it was made in CA.he looked similar to the way Duane looked yrs later.

I have questioned and asked before if anyone knew if around 1934/1936 if there was an airshow in CA...because at that time the family was living in OHIO. The father had CA connections as did his brother Lyman Van Buren Weber which the brother did not tell me about nor the sister. Lyman was older than Duane's father and they were brothers. Lyman worked for SHERWIN WILLIAMS and was a chemist and who helped developer the CHEMICAL WARFARE for WW1. He was called out again when the balloons landes in WA....and did that as Civil Service.

This is the same time period Duane was in WA.

I am tired of telling this and NEVER being heard and NO ONE even verifying the information. It is there in the genealogy. I am NOT making any of this up. U JERKS told me there was NO way the family was involved in the Boeing Paint JOB - well they were.
I won't go into all of this - I posted it in DETAIL while all of the papers where in my hands.

I even asked if anyone was able to find the guest list for the Boeing introduction. You will find a member of DUane's family was there!

I hurt to bad to continue to try to tell a bunch of guys who do not really care - they just want something to debate and scramble about. READ back into my post - it is in this thread. I made as much public as possible in this thread - but it is a waste of time with the limited exposure I have here. I am becoming too disconnected in my thinking to continue this much longer.

I tried to tell - I tried to tell his story and I did NOT know he had actually told me about his own lilfe in the 3rd Party. It was the Treasure Island article that made everything crystal clear and then all of the pieces fell together. I understood he had told me about his life in the 3rd person because of who and what I am he could NOT tell me about his life any other way.

The family and the criminal records and all the things he told me - it was all there! Even then in 1958 - the investigators found his history very convoluted - in 1958 - WHY? THen in 1962 Duane WEBER was off the charts and he was NOT in prison - but working for a man out of TEXAS and this is when ALL of the spooky stuff happend and all of the SECRET stuff. I met the MAN behind it all - no not Duane, but the MAN behind other things. Things that I can't prove but I know. OH HELL - no one cares but me! NO ONE.

I have been threatened more than ONE time since I started to explore Duane's past. THE FBI didn't think THAT WAS IMPORTANT enough to even check out!. Was it because they were TOLD NOT to or they just didn't really have to? WHY threaten a widow very early on when she asked about JOHN COLLINS and those yrs 1962 to 1968 - WHAT the HELL Was WEBER involved in? Well, I finally figured it all out, but I can't prove it -and that is how they want it. I think if they thought I could prove it - I would already be dead. THat is NOT being paranoid I was threatened more than one time since 1996.

georger · April 5, 2013

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Tonight I have read a lot of long posts that somehow try to establish a connection between smoke jumpers and Duane Weber. Okay...no problem, but I have to ask the obvious question, and I will give reasons why.

Question: Did at any time Duane Weber mention personally he was connected to smoke jumping in any way? And if he did, what exactly did he say?

Snipped all of your kakah ... for the essential -

Shouldn't you ask Lindsay Lohan?

Or her cousin Rudy ?

Or his cousin Merl?

Or his brothers Oivle and Toivle?

Robert replies: Oh, no...of course YOU aren't responsible in part for creating discord on this thread are you? No...that could never happen with a pro Cooper investigator like you.

When I read posts like you just did there, this is what I actually see:

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'Blah.
Blah, blah. Blah...
blah, blah. Blah.'

Kind of like Morse Code or something, only it doesn't make any sense. Like the Californian turning off their wireless set when they were only a few miles from the Titanic.

Don't post stuff like that and then point to me as the problem, sir. Face it. You no longer have the right to point out what 'the problem' is.

You have BECOME the problem.

What you clipped, which isn't kaka, but a legit question:

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Tonight I have read a lot of long posts that somehow try to establish a connection between smoke jumpers and Duane Weber. Okay...no problem, but I have to ask the obvious question, and I will give reasons why.

Question: Did at any time Duane Weber mention personally he was connected to smoke jumping in any way? And if he did, what exactly did he say?

Now I don't know any more than the average person about these people. But there are two things I DO know about them. They kept pretty good records on who was who and when. It's almost like those websites where they keep careful track of who actually received the Medal of Honor, etc. The search functions on the main smokejumper site are pretty good. Duane does not come up on any of those searches, not even using some of the aliases.

Second reason I asked: The smokejumping community is a very tight-knit group, and if Duane was associated with them in any way, someone in the smokejumping community probably knows something. You should send the main website an inquiry and have them post up Duane's picture and your claim in their newsletter. I would suggest using the 1979 picture of you and he together, or something earlier if possible. That website sends their newsletter out to the entire smoke jumping community, and anyone else who signs up for it. If Duane was connected to the organization, even for a short time, someone who reads that newsletter is going to know something.

That assumes there is something to know, of course.

"What you clipped, which isn't kaka, but a legit question:"

who is the legitimate question directed at?!

Duane? Only Duane could answer this and Duane ist el morte - ja?

I guess you are asking Knoss!

Surely you aren't asking JO ?! ???

Im beginning to see a pattern here. N1 asks N2 asks
N3 and this goes on for an hour until basket weaving
time, then lunch, more questions back and forward,
then recreation on the lawn, then nap time, then
dinner, then more discussion ... lights out at 10:00.

There is always tomorrow. Until state papers run out...

BTW this is all old news here - same discussion has
been had with Jo on exact same point millions of
times. So welcome to round #5693.

georger · April 5, 2013

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Like the Californian turning off their wireless set when they were only a few miles from the Titanic.

Blevins, Don't forget that the Titanic's radio operators were very rude to the Californian's radio operator and ordered him to stay off that frequency. So he turned off his radio and went to bed since it was quite late.

Of course, shortly after that, the Titanic's operators were wishing they had been more civil.

Robert99

That is all true. Bride (wireless, Titanic) practically had his ears blown out that night. But still...the Californian was really slacking at the worst possible time. Some on the crew actually spotted the Titanic's rockets.

I guess all of that wasn't really the point, though. The point was that Georger is always pointing at me for trashing the thread, when in reality, it's been a steady diet of gobbledegook from him lately. And I'm not the ONLY one who has noticed this. He's also expanded that repertoire to include others besides yours truly.

Hey DUUUUDE if you want to pretend you were on the
Titantic or are some kind of expert on the Titanic,
that's your problemo - I wasn't there (and you
weren't either!) and I have nothing to do with your
claims! (But I did grow up with a lady whose sister was
on the Titanic and there's a toombstone for her in
Nova Scotia, I believe. One of my relatives worked
with Ballard for years.).

Claim you were on Apollo 13 for a change!

Or at du Dop with Duane!

Why am I or anyone responsible for your mental
gyrations and claims?

skyjack71 · April 5, 2013

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Question: Did at any time Duane Weber mention personally he was connected to smoke jumping in any way? And if he did, what exactly did he say?

Now I don't know any more than the average person about these people. But there are two things I DO know about them. They kept pretty good records on who was who and when. It's almost like those websites where they keep careful track of who actually received the Medal of Honor, etc. The search functions on the main smokejumper site are pretty good. Duane does not come up on any of those searches, not even using some of the aliases.

Second reason I asked: The smokejumping community is a very tight-knit group, and if Duane was associated with them in any way, someone in the smokejumping community probably knows something. You should send the main website an inquiry and have them post up Duane's picture and your claim in their newsletter. I would suggest using the 1979 picture of you and he together, or something earlier if possible. That website sends their newsletter out to the entire smoke jumping community, and anyone else who signs up for it. If Duane was connected to the organization, even for a short time, someone who reads that newsletter is going to know something.

Robert the most direct question you ever asked me before. I will try to give a simple answer.

Yes, Duane did mention smokejumpers when he showed me a picture of a bunch of guys in front of plane - they had on chutes, but NOT all of them had on chutes and some you could not make out. He didn't tell me he was a smokejumper but said he was in the picture - if he was in the picture he had something to do with them. A spotter, a packer - he did tell me about the Flying Johnsons, but back then I didn't have a clue what he was talking about. This was the same time he showed me a picture of a woman near a plane and said he knew her. I assumed she was a pilot or a friend of the man who the plane belonged to or perhaps the plane belonged to her father - I don't know.

Can't remember if the source of the pictures - old photos - but I do not remember the medium. Book, magazine or another book. He mentioned a photographer, but don't know if he said the name...told me had been a helper. I guess setting things up. The man evidently was well known for his photography, but I do NOT recall a name or if Duane said a name.

I have search N.W. photos and tried to see if I could find any of the photos he showed me - have no idea where they came from or what happened to them.

My memory is so fuzzy on this part that I am unable to remember the time frame and why I was not more curious. It could have been while we were in Alabama in 1987 - because that is where My mind wants to go. Why AL I don't know. He was very mysterious about something at that time. This is about the time I found the envelope taped under the desk and he walked in on me. I just told him I was picking up a lead I dropped while putting them away. Which really was true - because I would NOT have seen it had I not picked up the lead.

The next day I went to find the envelope taped to the back of the desk and it was GONE.

When we moved to AL in 1987 he went ahead of me had the travel trailer and one of the dogs.
We had sold our home in VA. I flew down to help find a rental - and flew with the other dog in a crate, but she was crying and I pulled her out and put her under my jacket (she was only 3 lbs).

What he did in AL before I got there with the furniture a month or so later - I don't know. We were NOT too far from Nebraska and maybe he made trip up there to pick up a few things. Could have done it easily and his John Collins ID was still active at that time.

In Va in 1984 he was so obsessed with being responsible for someone dieing. Drunk and rambling about getting killed because he tried to do what he did. Even DRUNK he was careful of his words.Of course now I know what he was talking about, but back then I didn't have a DAMN CLUE!

I tried to give a simple answer, but as usual if is a maze of memories. I guess I have to let the memories flow as they come.
Each time I have to answer a question like this - and this one was a first. I was the QUESTION and how YOU worded it that started the memory cycle.

Blevin when YOU were at a location on one of your trips - I QUIZED you and wrote you about making a stop for me at a musuem, but you didn't. I wanted pictures or copies of what was in that museum - it was a smoke jumper museum. I think the picture I saw is IN that MUSUEM - for some reason this is just burning at me....Duane talked about a camp in that area and then I found the Spokane record and then I found Harris was in Spokane and the same age as Duane. Then all the memories of Duane's conversation about Coure d alene and Spokane and he could NEVER go back. A boy and indian reservation he didn't say the name of the boy then but later that same day he said the name but I never connected it with the BOY. Now I think the BOY and the name go together, but I have found NO trace or history of that man - like Duane he went POOF!

georger · April 5, 2013

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Reality Check:

I would have to be over a hundred years old to 'claim' I was on the Titanic.

You have heard of 'books,' right? Believe it or not, I actually read one occasionally. And my name isn't 'Dude'.

Thats right. You read books and articles. You also read between the lines and can mind meld.

You say: "That is all true. Bride (wireless, Titanic) practically had his ears blown out that night."

I assume you are saying he had his eardrums blown out, practically speaking, almost, well sort of, in a manner similar to, physically or psychologically speaking, ... was partially deaf thereafter ... and if
Jim B could find his body Blevins would be vindicated.

So Blevins, why dont you write Ballard and ask him to
verify your account?

Or are you now going to do a search and find out who
my relative is that worked for him and pester her?

I'll give you a hint. It's Linda's mother".

georger · April 5, 2013

I have NO idea what you are talking about. I get the idea that perhaps you don't either.

If you can't be an example, serve as a warning...'
(From an article about Lindsay Lohan)

You say your account is in a book.

Show us where it says: ""That is all true. Bride
(wireless, Titanic) practically had his ears blown out
that night." (your words)

I think you made this up.

Show us your citation.

georger · April 5, 2013

Quote

Georger says in part:

Quote

'You say your account is in a book.

Show us where it says: ""That is all true. Bride
(wireless, Titanic) practically had his ears blown out
that night." (your words)

I think you made this up. Show us your citation.'

Actually, I said that this book was my fave one on the subject. The idea that Harold Bride (Titanic wireless operator) got his ears practically blown out by the Californian is strictly an opinion. I didn't actually quote a reference. If you wish, I will repost the original.

Actually you said: ""That is all true. Bride (wireless, Titanic) practically had his ears blown out that night." (your words)

Either you said this or you didn't! Your post is below.
Either its true or it isn't.
I think its your artistic license at work again.

RobertMBlevins

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Apr 4, 2013, 11:54 PM

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Re: [Robert99] Smokin' Smokejumpers [In reply to] Quote | Reply
In Reply To
In Reply To
Like the Californian turning off their wireless set when they were only a few miles from the Titanic.

Blevins, Don't forget that the Titanic's radio operators were very rude to the Californian's radio operator and ordered him to stay off that frequency. So he turned off his radio and went to bed since it was quite late.

Of course, shortly after that, the Titanic's operators were wishing they had been more civil.

Robert99

That is all true. Bride (wireless, Titanic) practically had his ears blown out that night. But still...the Californian was really slacking at the worst possible time. Some on the crew actually spotted the Titanic's rockets.

I guess all of that wasn't really the point, though. The point was that Georger is always pointing at me for trashing the thread, when in reality, it's been a steady diet of gobbledegook from him lately. And I'm not the ONLY one who has noticed this. He's also expanded that repertoire to include others besides yours truly.

'If you can't be an example, serve as a warning...'
(From an article about Lindsay Lohan)

Here is some actual history - not Blevins made up stuff.

At 2:10, the Captain released the R/O's under the "every man for himself" rule and said "you can go now, boys. You've done your job well." After the power eventually failed to the wireless equipment, they left the wireless shack, stepping over the body of the unconscious stoker, and emerged onto the rapidly flooding deck. The R/O's noticed a group of men trying to lower and launch the Collapsible boats lashed to the roof of the officers' quarters, but "having a rather rough time at it."

Bride climbed up and assisted in pushing B off, which landed upside-down. Then, everyone scrambled for the boat deck again. Phillips ran aft toward the sounds of a ragtime tune and Bride thought of following but the group around Collapsible B needed more help. He returned to the upset raft and had a grip on one of the davits when a giant wave caused by the bow dipping under washed him and nearly everyone else working on the Collapsibles overboard.

Jack Phillips died later of hypothermia (we believe found near one of the collapsibles adrift).

Anna gave her ticket to her sister also hoping to join
her husband in Saskatoon. (Welsh coal miner) Anna
made her way to Canada later. Her husband died in a
mine collapse. Anna was sent to family in ________
where she is buried.

Robert99 · April 5, 2013

Unless otherwise stated, this post is based on the information Tom Kaye presented in his analysis of the Tena Bar money and related items that is available on his web page. Tom Kaye's analysis should be read very carefully by everyone who is interested in the Cooper hijacking.

RUBBER BANDS ANALYSIS

Tom did experiments with rubber bands in sand and water. He concludes that their lifetime in either sand or water is less than a year. He states that this suggests the money became buried at Tena Bar within a year of the hijacking in 1971.

Tom states that his data does not support the dredging theory and that, in turn, does not support the Washougal Washdown Theory.

MONEY ANALYSIS

Tom did experiments with actual bills and concluded that they would fan out on both ends (with a rubber band snugly holding the bills in the middle) within minutes of being submerged and would then sink to the bottom within a matter of minutes.

Tom also concluded that, "Bundles of money 'floating' onto a beach like Tena Bar has a low probability and would require strong enough water flow to push the bundles onto the beach."

Tom also used some of the Tena Bar money bills to reconstruct the bundles alignment. As viewed from the front side of the bill, it appears that the rubber band had moved to a point approximately one-third of the bill's length in from the left end of the bundle. Some portions of bills were overlaid on each other and permitted Tom to make his reconstruction of the bills alignment for a lengthy period of time.

From Tom's reconstruction, it appears that the bottom of the bundle of bills was being restrained at some point when the upper bills were exposed to a "torque" from the water that moved the free end of the upper bills counter-clockwise to the rest of the bundle.

THE REMAINDER OF THIS POST IS ROBERT99'S OPINIONS AND SPECULATIONS

In my opinion, Tom Kaye's conclusions about the money arriving at Tena Bar within a year of the hijacking is correct and supported by his data. Also, Tom's conclusions about the dredging and Washougal Washdown theories are also correct. If the money made it to the bottom of the Washougal or Columbia Rivers, it would probably never have surfaced again.

The GPS coordinates Tom gives for the money find location is about 13 feet above sea level (ASL). The typical daily high tide water level for the Columbia at Tena Bar with nominal river flow, is probably not more than 7 feet ASL. Consequently, the money would have to arrive at it discovery location during a high water period on the Columbia.

All of the above taken together suggests that the money was washed from somewhere on the Fazio property or other land south (upstream) of there onto the river bank by water that was moving down the bank as it drained from these properties and into the Columbia. This water would have to come from the west side of NW Lower River Road, which was built on top of a levee.

The present day Flushing Channel, at the south end of Caterpillar Island, was finished about 1979. How it changed the high level water flow over the area described above is not know at this time.

But it appears conclusive that Tom's work indicates that the money was at Tena Bar prior to the end of 1972 and that the washdown and dredging theories are invalid.

Robert99

skyjack71 · April 6, 2013

Jo Stated:

Photo recognitions with Duane's navy pic - indicates one of the men is possibly Duane L. Weber and not either of the names provided by the book the pic was in. ONE name never existed and the other's family said their uncle was NEVER in Camino or CA.

__________________________________________________
Meyer Louie stated:

Vague recollections and fuzzy memories.... here we go again, Jo. I'm not sure what that accomplishes, and frankly, I find it frustrating. You can't even identify your own Duane (or John) in the picture you posted. If you can't, then is it reasonable to expect that others here can? I don't think that's a reasonable expectation, Jo.

JO SHOUTS - go back and look at all of the Camino shot and the post from way back. WHY do I have to redo these for those who REFUSE to read back. I was NOT confusing and I had ALL of the paper work in front of me back then. NOW there is TOO MUCH for me to go back.

THE names of the guys are listed on the CPS site (I don't know it any more).

EXCUSE ME SIR: U go back and LOOK them UP yourself. WHY exhaust my last bit of energy to REPEAT THE SAME INFORMATION I GAVE A LONG TIME AGO AND IN MUCH DETAIL!

Duane was 60 plus when he showed me the photo in a book and I HAD never see a picture if Duane as a younger MAN! NOW do U GET it? The story about the book is in this thread and so is my reseach in trying to find the origin of the book and finding the men in the picture.

One of the guys was given 2 different namea on the CPS site.
JUST because I do NOT accommodate newbies who just refuse to look back DOES NOT mean I do NOT know which one I think was Weber. WHAT is unreasonable is people like You who EXPECT me to repeat posts from yrs ago when we explored this on this thread. WHAT am I supposed to be - A HUMAN COMPUTER SLAVE who can pull up my memory and research on demand?

THE 2ed one from the left is Duane Weber - but 2 other names where given on the site.
I can't prove it was DUANE, but the photo recognition used his navy pic and this and that is what it came up with!

MeyerLouie · April 6, 2013

Jo said:

....I am tired of telling this and NEVER being heard and NO ONE even verifying the information. It is there in the genealogy. I am NOT making any of this up. U JERKS told me there was NO way the family was involved in the Boeing Paint JOB - well they were.
......I even asked if anyone was able to find the guest list for the Boeing introduction. You will find a member of DUane's family was there!

I hurt to bad to continue to try to tell a bunch of guys who do not really care - they just want something to debate and scramble about.

__________________________________________________

Jo,

Why are you always expecting the forum to do your follow-up and verify your claims? That's your job, not anybody else's. You just keep throwing spaghetti on the wall and hope that some of it sticks. When no one follows up on the news and information you throw out there, you get pissed -- telling us that no one even cares. Well, you're right -- you're the one who needs to care. If you make the claim, it's your responsibility to follow-up, verify, and research your own stuff. The forum is not obligated to do your research and legwork for you. Stop expecting it. That's your job.

Sometimes you even name-call when you don't get what you want (you called us 'jerks'). Reality check Jo: no one owes you, or is obligated to give you, anything here.

MeyerLouie

MeyerLouie · April 6, 2013

Quote

Quote

Question: Did at any time Duane Weber mention personally he was connected to smoke jumping in any way? And if he did, what exactly did he say?

Now I don't know any more than the average person about these people. But there are two things I DO know about them. They kept pretty good records on who was who and when. It's almost like those websites where they keep careful track of who actually received the Medal of Honor, etc. The search functions on the main smokejumper site are pretty good. Duane does not come up on any of those searches, not even using some of the aliases.

Second reason I asked: The smokejumping community is a very tight-knit group, and if Duane was associated with them in any way, someone in the smokejumping community probably knows something. You should send the main website an inquiry and have them post up Duane's picture and your claim in their newsletter. I would suggest using the 1979 picture of you and he together, or something earlier if possible. That website sends their newsletter out to the entire smoke jumping community, and anyone else who signs up for it. If Duane was connected to the organization, even for a short time, someone who reads that newsletter is going to know something.

Robert the most direct question you ever asked me before. I will try to give a simple answer.

Yes, Duane did mention smokejumpers when he showed me a picture of a bunch of guys in front of plane - they had on chutes, but NOT all of them had on chutes and some you could not make out. He didn't tell me he was a smokejumper but said he was in the picture - if he was in the picture he had something to do with them. A spotter, a packer - he did tell me about the Flying Johnsons, but back then I didn't have a clue what he was talking about. This was the same time he showed me a picture of a woman near a plane and said he knew her. I assumed she was a pilot or a friend of the man who the plane belonged to or perhaps the plane belonged to her father - I don't know.

Can't remember if the source of the pictures - old photos - but I do not remember the medium. Book, magazine or another book. He mentioned a photographer, but don't know if he said the name...told me had been a helper. I guess setting things up. The man evidently was well known for his photography, but I do NOT recall a name or if Duane said a name.

I have search N.W. photos and tried to see if I could find any of the photos he showed me - have no idea where they came from or what happened to them.

My memory is so fuzzy on this part that I am unable to remember the time frame and why I was not more curious. It could have been while we were in Alabama in 1987 - because that is where My mind wants to go. Why AL I don't know. He was very mysterious about something at that time. This is about the time I found the envelope taped under the desk and he walked in on me. I just told him I was picking up a lead I dropped while putting them away. Which really was true - because I would NOT have seen it had I not picked up the lead.

The next day I went to find the envelope taped to the back of the desk and it was GONE.

When we moved to AL in 1987 he went ahead of me had the travel trailer and one of the dogs.
We had sold our home in VA. I flew down to help find a rental - and flew with the other dog in a crate, but she was crying and I pulled her out and put her under my jacket (she was only 3 lbs).

What he did in AL before I got there with the furniture a month or so later - I don't know. We were NOT too far from Nebraska and maybe he made trip up there to pick up a few things. Could have done it easily and his John Collins ID was still active at that time.

In Va in 1984 he was so obsessed with being responsible for someone dieing. Drunk and rambling about getting killed because he tried to do what he did. Even DRUNK he was careful of his words.Of course now I know what he was talking about, but back then I didn't have a DAMN CLUE!

I tried to give a simple answer, but as usual if is a maze of memories. I guess I have to let the memories flow as they come.
Each time I have to answer a question like this - and this one was a first. I was the QUESTION and how YOU worded it that started the memory cycle.

Blevin when YOU were at a location on one of your trips - I QUIZED you and wrote you about making a stop for me at a musuem, but you didn't. I wanted pictures or copies of what was in that museum - it was a smoke jumper museum. I think the picture I saw is IN that MUSUEM - for some reason this is just burning at me....Duane talked about a camp in that area and then I found the Spokane record and then I found Harris was in Spokane and the same age as Duane. Then all the memories of Duane's conversation about Coure d alene and Spokane and he could NEVER go back. A boy and indian reservation he didn't say the name of the boy then but later that same day he said the name but I never connected it with the BOY. Now I think the BOY and the name go together, but I have found NO trace or history of that man - like Duane he went POOF!

__________________________________________________

Might have, may be, could've been, fuzzy memories .... Jo, when I read your posts, it's like reading a mystery novel ... but I'll never ever get to find out who really did it!

MeyerLouie

MeyerLouie · April 6, 2013

Quote

Jo Stated:

Photo recognitions with Duane's navy pic - indicates one of the men is possibly Duane L. Weber and not either of the names provided by the book the pic was in. ONE name never existed and the other's family said their uncle was NEVER in Camino or CA.

__________________________________________________
Meyer Louie stated:

Vague recollections and fuzzy memories.... here we go again, Jo. I'm not sure what that accomplishes, and frankly, I find it frustrating. You can't even identify your own Duane (or John) in the picture you posted. If you can't, then is it reasonable to expect that others here can? I don't think that's a reasonable expectation, Jo.

JO SHOUTS - go back and look at all of the Camino shot and the post from way back. WHY do I have to redo these for those who REFUSE to read back. I was NOT confusing and I had ALL of the paper work in front of me back then. NOW there is TOO MUCH for me to go back.

THE names of the guys are listed on the CPS site (I don't know it any more).

EXCUSE ME SIR: U go back and LOOK them UP yourself. WHY exhaust my last bit of energy to REPEAT THE SAME INFORMATION I GAVE A LONG TIME AGO AND IN MUCH DETAIL!

Duane was 60 plus when he showed me the photo in a book and I HAD never see a picture if Duane as a younger MAN! NOW do U GET it? The story about the book is in this thread and so is my reseach in trying to find the origin of the book and finding the men in the picture.

One of the guys was given 2 different namea on the CPS site.
JUST because I do NOT accommodate newbies who just refuse to look back DOES NOT mean I do NOT know which one I think was Weber. WHAT is unreasonable is people like You who EXPECT me to repeat posts from yrs ago when we explored this on this thread. WHAT am I supposed to be - A HUMAN COMPUTER SLAVE who can pull up my memory and research on demand?

THE 2ed one from the left is Duane Weber - but 2 other names where given on the site.
I can't prove it was DUANE, but the photo recognition used his navy pic and this and that is what it came up with!

_________________________________________________

You were married to this guy, Duane, for how many years? And you can't confirm, you can't be sure, it was your husband when he was younger? C'mon Jo!That's a bit far-fetched.

Most of the time, I can look at a picture of an old man from my family and look at a picture of him when he was a young man, and it doesn't take long to correctly identify him. There's always identifying features that never disappear with age -- the face, the smile, the shape of the eyes, mouth and nose (this is a family member now, not a stranger).

I don't believe you. Go ahead, throw your temper tantrums....

MeyerLouie

mrshutter45 · April 6, 2013

the picture Jo is showing is right on Wikipedia's site. the other
question is, why would Duane be in a CPS after being in the
service twice???

"The Civilian Public Service (CPS) provided conscientious objectors in the United States
an alternative to military service during World War II. From 1941 to 1947.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_Public_Service

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

mrshutter45 · April 6, 2013

the picture seems to not be Duane.......my guess is
Duane was a bit of a story teller!!

also the other pic Jo is showing is not Duane either!!

http://civilianpublicservice.org/camps/31/1

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

Robert99 · April 6, 2013

Quote
the picture seems to not be Duane.......my guess is
Duane was a bit of a story teller!!

also the other pic Jo is showing is not Duane either!!

http://civilianpublicservice.org/camps/31/1

Good job, Shutter!

Robert99

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