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QuoteHas the mystery been solved by anyone here? Not at all. It's one of the major keys to the case -- figure out what really happened at Tena's Bar and I think you go a long ways to understanding, maybe even solving, the case. Anything this important bears repeating.
And so how would you solve it? Unlimited budget,
labs galore, phD's, any resource you wanted -
?
What would you look for in the money? How would
you connect the money to the rest of the case?
I am always interested in people with BIG ideas.
Better than small minded people who say and do the same assinine things day in and day out. How about just keep digging? Pun intended. Something, anything, is better than nothing, and that's all we got now. We need smart guys like you to solve the money mystery -- it will help make the other pieces of the puzzle fit together.
Farflung 0
If there was a ‘Free Space’ on the find Cooper BINGO card, I would have thought it was Tena Bar. The dozens of FBI agents, volunteers and dirt doctors who processed dozens of yards of material, was only the beginning. Every Cletus and Goober with half a dream, and less of a brain, migrated to the spot and sifted through the sands for the Treasure of Sierra Cooper, without any positive results.
Next came the Tosaw types, who were actually well financed and armed with somewhat of a plan. If the money was found on Tena Bar, then Cooper must have pranged nearby. I don’t think it is an exaggeration to say that tens of thousands were spent, on weeks of medium scale dredging around Tena Bar. Again without positive results.
Considering the history and the architecture of the original find, Tena Bar doesn’t appear to be a target rich environment. But that’s OK, hope springs eternal and some are convinced they have the right answer. Look, it’s still a free country and the beach is on private land, get a shovel and go! I’m sure the suburban Walter Mittys, who haunt this thread, have vast experience with something as lowly as a shovel, and know full well what’s required to process one, single cubic yard. Sure, you’ve used a shovel in your garden. First you put on your floral gloves with extra padding in the palm, don’t forget your knee pads and bandana. Then you picked up a sealed plastic bag of Miracle-Gro potting soil, then hoisted it up and carried it to the flower bed. Oh dear, you forgot the scissors! Now you’ve got to go back inside the house to fetch a pair. Whew, that’s hard work, I’ll have a little mimosa in order to cool that finely tuned engine you call a body. OK, ready to resume the excavation project between the painted concrete gnomes and gazing balls. Uh Oh! Is that an insect! Back to the house for some Black Flag. Now those disgusting creatures can be sprayed so you can continue working with that cubic foot of soil. Owww! I threw something in my back when I bent to spray the bugs. Oh well, I’ll just grab my bottle of Doan’s pills after I put the insecticide back in the garage. Damn it, I forgot my trowel, with ergonomic handle made with comfort gel. Back to the garden shelf and a search for the implement which was hidden behind a box of snail pellets. Finally you’re ready to dig that flower bed like a boss.
Pretty close to correct? Easy to fancy one’s self as an excavating Adonis from the comfort of their chair and hemorrhoid pillow, but you better work out first. Order a yard of sand from the… sand store and spend a few hours shoveling the stuff from one side of your driveway to the other. Keep in mind this is likely kiln dried and sifted product, so this is as easy as it’s going to get. That’s right, I’m talking about a single…. cubic… yard. But you won’t.
Don’t forget to cross check that plan.
1. Get a shovel.
2. Fly to Portland.
3. Go to Tena Bar.
4. ????? End of plan. Validation complete.
Hey there are plenty of people who have jumped to ‘action’ with far less and didn’t have the advantage of hubris or some displaced sense that frenetic activity equates to something more honorable. It’s a theme that is thoroughly hackneyed.
But please go! Please! The only thing less effective, would be ‘knowing’ where the money is buried, and wasting time steering and manipulating data, in some sophomoric pantomime, where you use faux authority and bombast, to push some anonymous group of people to arrive at Tena Bar, so you can justify your efforts. Why the desire to make independent research extinct which is not going “your way”? You have already declared yourself in possession of secret and unknown to anyone else information, so why would any other simulation or research match yours? Logic says it wouldn’t and that’s the way it should be. You suspect you are dead wrong, which I can only surmise must be the source of the anger and angst about the flight path data. But please just go! Go! Only a Walter Mitty would spend one more comment on this subject where you hold all the cards. Just PM interested parties and go! Go dig a hole and a half, since you have the spunk, experience and brains. You will truly defy all odds that have ever existed.
Can you dig that?
Next came the Tosaw types, who were actually well financed and armed with somewhat of a plan. If the money was found on Tena Bar, then Cooper must have pranged nearby. I don’t think it is an exaggeration to say that tens of thousands were spent, on weeks of medium scale dredging around Tena Bar. Again without positive results.
Considering the history and the architecture of the original find, Tena Bar doesn’t appear to be a target rich environment. But that’s OK, hope springs eternal and some are convinced they have the right answer. Look, it’s still a free country and the beach is on private land, get a shovel and go! I’m sure the suburban Walter Mittys, who haunt this thread, have vast experience with something as lowly as a shovel, and know full well what’s required to process one, single cubic yard. Sure, you’ve used a shovel in your garden. First you put on your floral gloves with extra padding in the palm, don’t forget your knee pads and bandana. Then you picked up a sealed plastic bag of Miracle-Gro potting soil, then hoisted it up and carried it to the flower bed. Oh dear, you forgot the scissors! Now you’ve got to go back inside the house to fetch a pair. Whew, that’s hard work, I’ll have a little mimosa in order to cool that finely tuned engine you call a body. OK, ready to resume the excavation project between the painted concrete gnomes and gazing balls. Uh Oh! Is that an insect! Back to the house for some Black Flag. Now those disgusting creatures can be sprayed so you can continue working with that cubic foot of soil. Owww! I threw something in my back when I bent to spray the bugs. Oh well, I’ll just grab my bottle of Doan’s pills after I put the insecticide back in the garage. Damn it, I forgot my trowel, with ergonomic handle made with comfort gel. Back to the garden shelf and a search for the implement which was hidden behind a box of snail pellets. Finally you’re ready to dig that flower bed like a boss.
Pretty close to correct? Easy to fancy one’s self as an excavating Adonis from the comfort of their chair and hemorrhoid pillow, but you better work out first. Order a yard of sand from the… sand store and spend a few hours shoveling the stuff from one side of your driveway to the other. Keep in mind this is likely kiln dried and sifted product, so this is as easy as it’s going to get. That’s right, I’m talking about a single…. cubic… yard. But you won’t.
Don’t forget to cross check that plan.
1. Get a shovel.
2. Fly to Portland.
3. Go to Tena Bar.
4. ????? End of plan. Validation complete.
Hey there are plenty of people who have jumped to ‘action’ with far less and didn’t have the advantage of hubris or some displaced sense that frenetic activity equates to something more honorable. It’s a theme that is thoroughly hackneyed.
But please go! Please! The only thing less effective, would be ‘knowing’ where the money is buried, and wasting time steering and manipulating data, in some sophomoric pantomime, where you use faux authority and bombast, to push some anonymous group of people to arrive at Tena Bar, so you can justify your efforts. Why the desire to make independent research extinct which is not going “your way”? You have already declared yourself in possession of secret and unknown to anyone else information, so why would any other simulation or research match yours? Logic says it wouldn’t and that’s the way it should be. You suspect you are dead wrong, which I can only surmise must be the source of the anger and angst about the flight path data. But please just go! Go! Only a Walter Mitty would spend one more comment on this subject where you hold all the cards. Just PM interested parties and go! Go dig a hole and a half, since you have the spunk, experience and brains. You will truly defy all odds that have ever existed.
Can you dig that?
377 21
No digging at Tena bar for me, Farflung's harsh reality warning has cured me of any desire. Maybe I'd reconsider if I could dig with an air conditioned John Deere backhoe with a differential GPS coupled autopilot, but none of that hard work stuff.
Some of the Cooper rig hardware could last for a century or more. I just hope when its found, someone realizes what it is.
I'll just take my Tena Bar twenty to a "currency whisperer", or one of those Langley VA guys that stares at goats. I bet the CIA already did this and found out that Cooper was one of their own. After that it was a concerted campaign of disinformation, which so far has worked perfectly.
I ponder my Cooper twenty and try to figure out how it got to T bar and by who's hand. I ask it lots of questions, but so far it just ignores me. I need a pro to talk to it.
As the band Chicago sung:
"Can you dig it?"
"Yes I can"
"and I've been waiting such a long time for the day..."
377
Some of the Cooper rig hardware could last for a century or more. I just hope when its found, someone realizes what it is.
I'll just take my Tena Bar twenty to a "currency whisperer", or one of those Langley VA guys that stares at goats. I bet the CIA already did this and found out that Cooper was one of their own. After that it was a concerted campaign of disinformation, which so far has worked perfectly.
I ponder my Cooper twenty and try to figure out how it got to T bar and by who's hand. I ask it lots of questions, but so far it just ignores me. I need a pro to talk to it.
As the band Chicago sung:
"Can you dig it?"
"Yes I can"
"and I've been waiting such a long time for the day..."
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
377 21
Jo wrote
The FBI could track Duane's time at prisons, but he wasnt always an inmate. He probably did travel to that area sometime in between his numerous sentences. That doesnt connect him to Norjack, just to a region. Huge difference.
The FBI, like any govt bureaucracy, makes mistakes from time to time. Not every mistake is part of a conspiracy to hide the truth.
As far as trying to connect Duane with a chute by claiming that he jumped up and shouted Geronimo in your presence, that just doesnt cut it.
I've been a parachutist for 44 years and I have NEVER heard anyone yell "Geronimo" when exiting an aircraft. The only place I've heard that said is in war movies. Maybe some airborne or smoke jumpers can chime in.
Amazon, you ever hear "Geronimo"? The most common exit utterance I've heard is "go" if in a group or "bye" if solo.
377
QuoteIf as the FBI claimed Duane was not in McNeil and never a resident of WA - how the HELL did he know were all of those place where without a map and how did he know those individuals he mentioned?
The FBI could track Duane's time at prisons, but he wasnt always an inmate. He probably did travel to that area sometime in between his numerous sentences. That doesnt connect him to Norjack, just to a region. Huge difference.
The FBI, like any govt bureaucracy, makes mistakes from time to time. Not every mistake is part of a conspiracy to hide the truth.
As far as trying to connect Duane with a chute by claiming that he jumped up and shouted Geronimo in your presence, that just doesnt cut it.
I've been a parachutist for 44 years and I have NEVER heard anyone yell "Geronimo" when exiting an aircraft. The only place I've heard that said is in war movies. Maybe some airborne or smoke jumpers can chime in.
Amazon, you ever hear "Geronimo"? The most common exit utterance I've heard is "go" if in a group or "bye" if solo.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
BobKnoss 0
QuoteIf there was a ‘Free Space’ on the find Cooper BINGO card, I would have thought it was Tena Bar. The dozens of FBI agents, volunteers and dirt doctors who processed dozens of yards of material, was only the beginning. Every Cletus and Goober with half a dream, and less of a brain, migrated to the spot and sifted through the sands for the Treasure of Sierra Cooper, without any positive results.
Next came the Tosaw types, who were actually well financed and armed with somewhat of a plan. If the money was found on Tena Bar, then Cooper must have pranged nearby. I don’t think it is an exaggeration to say that tens of thousands were spent, on weeks of medium scale dredging around Tena Bar. Again without positive results.
Considering the history and the architecture of the original find, Tena Bar doesn’t appear to be a target rich environment. But that’s OK, hope springs eternal and some are convinced they have the right answer. Look, it’s still a free country and the beach is on private land, get a shovel and go! I’m sure the suburban Walter Mittys, who haunt this thread, have vast experience with something as lowly as a shovel, and know full well what’s required to process one, single cubic yard. Sure, you’ve used a shovel in your garden. First you put on your floral gloves with extra padding in the palm, don’t forget your knee pads and bandana. Then you picked up a sealed plastic bag of Miracle-Gro potting soil, then hoisted it up and carried it to the flower bed. Oh dear, you forgot the scissors! Now you’ve got to go back inside the house to fetch a pair. Whew, that’s hard work, I’ll have a little mimosa in order to cool that finely tuned engine you call a body. OK, ready to resume the excavation project between the painted concrete gnomes and gazing balls. Uh Oh! Is that an insect! Back to the house for some Black Flag. Now those disgusting creatures can be sprayed so you can continue working with that cubic foot of soil. Owww! I threw something in my back when I bent to spray the bugs. Oh well, I’ll just grab my bottle of Doan’s pills after I put the insecticide back in the garage. Damn it, I forgot my trowel, with ergonomic handle made with comfort gel. Back to the garden shelf and a search for the implement which was hidden behind a box of snail pellets. Finally you’re ready to dig that flower bed like a boss.
Pretty close to correct? Easy to fancy one’s self as an excavating Adonis from the comfort of their chair and hemorrhoid pillow, but you better work out first. Order a yard of sand from the… sand store and spend a few hours shoveling the stuff from one side of your driveway to the other. Keep in mind this is likely kiln dried and sifted product, so this is as easy as it’s going to get. That’s right, I’m talking about a single…. cubic… yard. But you won’t.
Don’t forget to cross check that plan.
1. Get a shovel.
2. Fly to Portland.
3. Go to Tena Bar.
4. ????? End of plan. Validation complete.
Hey there are plenty of people who have jumped to ‘action’ with far less and didn’t have the advantage of hubris or some displaced sense that frenetic activity equates to something more honorable. It’s a theme that is thoroughly hackneyed.
But please go! Please! The only thing less effective, would be ‘knowing’ where the money is buried, and wasting time steering and manipulating data, in some sophomoric pantomime, where you use faux authority and bombast, to push some anonymous group of people to arrive at Tena Bar, so you can justify your efforts. Why the desire to make independent research extinct which is not going “your way”? You have already declared yourself in possession of secret and unknown to anyone else information, so why would any other simulation or research match yours? Logic says it wouldn’t and that’s the way it should be. You suspect you are dead wrong, which I can only surmise must be the source of the anger and angst about the flight path data. But please just go! Go! Only a Walter Mitty would spend one more comment on this subject where you hold all the cards. Just PM interested parties and go! Go dig a hole and a half, since you have the spunk, experience and brains. You will truly defy all odds that have ever existed.
Can you dig that?
I'm a Far Side Fan, but every now and again Farf scores. Let me fill in the holes in the sandy money. First, it didn't start there. It ended there. It floated there during a high water incident from a nearby spot where it was buried by Duane Weber. Some of the money went with Duane, but everything that was left went floating bye-bye. There used to be an abandoned dairy farm near Tena Bar. Sometimes the water there has been said to flow both ways. I do not know. I do know that all the money is toast, mostly little pieces that were found as deep as 3 feet beneath the dredged up sand. There is NO money to be found any more. The truth of the caper is buried also and the holders of the silver ring will not tell the story it holds, but for the most part, you can read what really happened in these Dropzone pages. Nowhere else.
mrshutter45 21
I have said it all my life as a joke when ever on a hill or what have you, I say it a lot at work while on lifts, but I have never parachuted or been around many who have.
last time I heard it on TV was the movie Hot Shots, the first couple jumpers said it, then a Indian came out and said Meeeeee 
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI
mrshutter45 21
you just can't keep away can you Bob? I seem to recall you giving Blevins a hard time about that, we don't need your lies Bob. or should I say College drop out??? ya right another lie.
North Hennepin Community College
Brooklyn Park, MN
Graduated: N/A
Degree: Other
Major: CNC Machining
1993 to 2002
Dunwoody College Of Technology
Minneapolis, MN
Graduated: N/A
Degree: Other
Major: Machining
1964 to 1966
University Of Minnesota-Twin Cities
Minneapolis, MN
Graduated: 1965
Student status: Alumni
Degree: Bachelor's Degree
Major: Education
Minor: Athletics
Greek: Mu Iota Epsilon
North Hennepin Community College
Brooklyn Park, MN
Graduated: N/A
Degree: Other
Major: CNC Machining
1993 to 2002
Dunwoody College Of Technology
Minneapolis, MN
Graduated: N/A
Degree: Other
Major: Machining
1964 to 1966
University Of Minnesota-Twin Cities
Minneapolis, MN
Graduated: 1965
Student status: Alumni
Degree: Bachelor's Degree
Major: Education
Minor: Athletics
Greek: Mu Iota Epsilon
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI
georger 197
Don’t forget to cross check that plan.
1. Get a shovel.
2. Fly to Portland.
3. Go to Tena Bar.
4. ????? End of plan. Validation complete.
?
1. Get a shovel.
2. Fly to Portland.
3. Go to Tena Bar.
4. ????? End of plan. Validation complete.
?
Gotta plan, am checking it twice. Got a shovel, am
checking it thrice. Hooking up Donder and Blevins.
Looking down I can see Tena Bar. I am there.
Now what!?
Damn. I forgot the shovel!
Farflung 0
Georger explained:
“The idea of a CS team arose, in part, due to a
concern (conflict) between the FBI FP and Thomas'
easterly Washougal route, on top of the fact that
Palmer etal had mentioned the Washougal as a
possible source for the Tena Bar money. That theory
was very active among the FBI agents at the time of
the Tena Bar excavation. And the thought was the
Cooper money (and the sediments between bills)
might very well show traces of time spent in the
Washougal environment, prior to a later arrival at
Tena Bar (say in the flood of 1979). Palmer had
commented that he thought the Cooper money was
a 'late arrival' at Tena Bar, and he said his geology
supported that idea ... but no thorough chemistry
had ever been done on the Cooper money (several
agents said) ... which turned out to be not entirely
true. That problem was the central at the time, as
a motivation for having forensics done on the
Cooper money (finally) by somebody, and lead to
the organising of a forensic team ...”
OK, so now some more light is shed on this idiotic environment, if I managed to read that correctly.
1. Some family is on vacation.
2. A kid finds something on the beach.
3. A geologist (just one) takes ‘some’ sort of sample tangential to the currency.
4. The same geologist (one and apparently only) suggests a “possible” source for the tangential sample.
5. It’s off to the races with half cocked, half wits, haphazardly bouncing around the countryside, apparently unaware that they were, “betting on the come” where everything hinged on some Sword of Damocles knowledge set, which managed to morph into several camps of ‘thought’ from a single source. With these same fragmented groups, fighting hammer and tong, over who had the better source information. (truly the definition of imbecilic)
I can’t believe what I’m reading here. It’s truly like a Greek tragedy except there is no life lesson, just shame, humiliation and a life of well deserved scorn. One person analyzed the sample, no double blinds or cross checks. Wow, just wow.
“The idea of a CS team arose, in part, due to a
concern (conflict) between the FBI FP and Thomas'
easterly Washougal route, on top of the fact that
Palmer etal had mentioned the Washougal as a
possible source for the Tena Bar money. That theory
was very active among the FBI agents at the time of
the Tena Bar excavation. And the thought was the
Cooper money (and the sediments between bills)
might very well show traces of time spent in the
Washougal environment, prior to a later arrival at
Tena Bar (say in the flood of 1979). Palmer had
commented that he thought the Cooper money was
a 'late arrival' at Tena Bar, and he said his geology
supported that idea ... but no thorough chemistry
had ever been done on the Cooper money (several
agents said) ... which turned out to be not entirely
true. That problem was the central at the time, as
a motivation for having forensics done on the
Cooper money (finally) by somebody, and lead to
the organising of a forensic team ...”
OK, so now some more light is shed on this idiotic environment, if I managed to read that correctly.
1. Some family is on vacation.
2. A kid finds something on the beach.
3. A geologist (just one) takes ‘some’ sort of sample tangential to the currency.
4. The same geologist (one and apparently only) suggests a “possible” source for the tangential sample.
5. It’s off to the races with half cocked, half wits, haphazardly bouncing around the countryside, apparently unaware that they were, “betting on the come” where everything hinged on some Sword of Damocles knowledge set, which managed to morph into several camps of ‘thought’ from a single source. With these same fragmented groups, fighting hammer and tong, over who had the better source information. (truly the definition of imbecilic)
I can’t believe what I’m reading here. It’s truly like a Greek tragedy except there is no life lesson, just shame, humiliation and a life of well deserved scorn. One person analyzed the sample, no double blinds or cross checks. Wow, just wow.
377 21
Farflung justifiably wrote:
We don't need no stinking controls, randomized double blinds or any of your corrupt ancient oppressive procedures. We are young, we are free, we have thrown off the shackles.
When we know we are right, that is enough. And we are 100% sure that we are right most of the time.
Carry on Farflung. You have the go codes. Crank up the ECM and press onward.
377
QuoteOne person analyzed the sample, no double blinds or cross checks. Wow, just wow.
We don't need no stinking controls, randomized double blinds or any of your corrupt ancient oppressive procedures. We are young, we are free, we have thrown off the shackles.
When we know we are right, that is enough. And we are 100% sure that we are right most of the time.
Carry on Farflung. You have the go codes. Crank up the ECM and press onward.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
Hominid 0
I've attached a copy of a bit of the bottom half of the 65th page of the transcripts pdf (marked "-190-" at the bottom of the page). This is immediately before takeoff at SEATAC. It's telling 305 that "the" wind is 10 knots from 180°. My assumption has been that this would be the wind at the standard altitude (10m or whatever) above some spot at the airport. Does anyone think this might or would have meant otherwise? And, would it have meant magnetic?
That is a reference for Surface winds, so the pilot knows how it will effect his air ship during take off and can plan accordingly.
Matt
Matt
An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!
So, start being safe, first!!!
Robert99 37
QuoteI've attached a copy of a bit of the bottom half of the 65th page of the transcripts pdf (marked "-190-" at the bottom of the page). This is immediately before takeoff at SEATAC. It's telling 305 that "the" wind is 10 knots from 180°. My assumption has been that this would be the wind at the standard altitude (10m or whatever) above some spot at the airport. Does anyone think this might or would have meant otherwise? And, would it have meant magnetic?
Hominid, To add to Matt's comments, the altimeter setting is measured at a standard distance above the ground (it used to be about 20 feet) so it is logical to assume that the surface winds would probably be measured at a standard distance above the ground also and it would probably be the same distance used in the altimeter setting.
Unless it has been changed in recent years (or decades), the surface winds are given in miles per hour and the direction (which is the direction from which they are blowing) is magnetic. The runway heading is also magnetic. This has evolved from the good old days and is supposed to simplify the pilot's understanding of the conditions.
In addition, if you really want to get serious about it, the FAA has a free publication online which can be downloaded. Its title: Surface Weather Observing, dated May 11, 2001, and it is 267 pages long.
Robert99
georger 197
QuoteGeorger explained:
“The idea of a CS team arose, in part, due to a
concern (conflict) between the FBI FP and Thomas'
easterly Washougal route, on top of the fact that
Palmer etal had mentioned the Washougal as a
possible source for the Tena Bar money. That theory
was very active among the FBI agents at the time of
the Tena Bar excavation. And the thought was the
Cooper money (and the sediments between bills)
might very well show traces of time spent in the
Washougal environment, prior to a later arrival at
Tena Bar (say in the flood of 1979). Palmer had
commented that he thought the Cooper money was
a 'late arrival' at Tena Bar, and he said his geology
supported that idea ... but no thorough chemistry
had ever been done on the Cooper money (several
agents said) ... which turned out to be not entirely
true. That problem was the central at the time, as
a motivation for having forensics done on the
Cooper money (finally) by somebody, and lead to
the organising of a forensic team ...”
OK, so now some more light is shed on this idiotic environment, if I managed to read that correctly.
1. Some family is on vacation.
2. A kid finds something on the beach.
3. A geologist (just one) takes ‘some’ sort of sample tangential to the currency.
4. The same geologist (one and apparently only) suggests a “possible” source for the tangential sample.
5. It’s off to the races with half cocked, half wits, haphazardly bouncing around the countryside, apparently unaware that they were, “betting on the come” where everything hinged on some Sword of Damocles knowledge set, which managed to morph into several camps of ‘thought’ from a single source. With these same fragmented groups, fighting hammer and tong, over who had the better source information. (truly the definition of imbecilic)
I can’t believe what I’m reading here. It’s truly like a Greek tragedy except there is no life lesson, just shame, humiliation and a life of well deserved scorn. One person analyzed the sample, no double blinds or cross checks. Wow, just wow.
b]4. The same geologist (one and apparently
only) suggests a “possible” source for the tangential
sample.
Its even worse than you portray. Far worser.
Worserest forte above being encamped at the shrine
of the Washougal. "We already know the money
came down the Washougal".
Todd told Harry told Faye, told John told Mary told
Maye, told Jack told Stick told Ray, told somebody
told somebody else told May ... the Washougal WAS
the source; thereby all academics put it into re-ports.
Dates uncertain well almost. All borrowed then sorta
commanded, obeyances. The Washougal must be
in the reports - God damnit! Becuz: Todd told Harry
told Faye, told John told Mary told Maye, told Jack
told Stick told Ray, told somebody told somebody
else told May. "Why dig a trench where the money
was found!? Go off that-a-way! Hell dig it in Seattle,
for all I care!. And dont save a God damned thing!"
Meanwhile the few fragment saved ship off to
Quantico, and reports evidently were made.
There are coded numbers of reports, "but dont save
them to let anyone read"!
Jerry Thomas then went forth conducting his own
extrapolations and in due course floated ten 1931
Chevies down the Wasougal and they ALL shows up
on Tena's Bar, true proof that Zeus is in charge.
Yep. It's Greekian fer sure. Aristophenes, Eu-
ripedes, Soh-krates, and then Tom Kaye-ipedes.
It all begins at Sparta engaging massive forces, in a
valley. All sacrificed including the goat. But names
left inscribed on a rock, in the Washougal!.
No small wonder my head began to spin!
Back to those Quantico reports with serial numbers.
WHERE THE FUCK ARE THEY! I AINT GONNA WAIT
TEN YEARS! Todd told Harry told Faye, told John ...
Summary report: Rounded sand (vs sharp sand?).
Consistent with "river sediment". I see! It's all
coming clear - the FAZIO FOUND THE MONEY AND
buryied some on their beachfront to throw everyone
off ... saying quickly when found ... "it cameup with
the rising tide ... I know ... I was there". There!?
There-what? We had had high tide just the day
before. Ok. You can see the money lays on the high
tide line, viola. We dont need no stinkin tests, but
I will help dig. My tractors rents for: . . .
All buddies. No cross checks needed. Todd told
Harry told Faye, told John told Mary told Maye, ...
Rounded sand consistent with river sediment. Which
River? The Patomac? ! The North Skunk? You mean
the Columbia River of course. No answer. Todd told
Harry told Faye, told John told Mary told Maye, ...
Who designed this Greek thingy? Todd told Harry told Faye, ...
Wonderful day in the neighborhood. Wouldn't you
be mine? Time to get and save your family. The
election is cancelled. Todd told Harry told Faye ...
The more I say the worse it gets!
Thank GOD! for the Kaye website. I'm retired!
Go ask Tom. I wasn't there.
Go ask Jerry Thomas. He was there!
C3? Duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.....
I cant even get this website to load or work!
Go ask Blevins. He was there!
Farflung 0
Here’s a reference from the Skygods:
http://www.faasafety.gov/gslac/ALC/libview_normal.aspx?id=6303
Under WIND:
“22015G25KT is reported as the three-digit true direction to the nearest 10 degrees. Note: ATC towers, ATIS and airport advisory service report wind as magnetic.”
Every once in a while, the government manages to limit the amount of mental gymnastics by keeping the exchange rate the same. Using magnetic winds in this case.
But they taketh away with VISIBILITY:
It is inexplicably reported in STAUTE MILES instead of nautical miles.
I know that wind measuring equipment ‘may’ (non mandatory) be located in the center of the runway environment.
What technique is used to avoid jet blast (how high is the 727’s engine? DC-10’s?).
Here’s some more for the library:
http://www.nws.noaa.gov/asos/pdfs/aum-toc.pdf
In particular section 3.2 Wind (page 14 or 21 in the PDF)
“The rotating cup anemometer and the simple wind vane
are the principal indicators of wind speed and direction.
Until the mid 1940s, the electrical contacting anemometer
was the standard wind measuring instrument. Since then,
the “F420” series of instruments have become the standard
for wind measurement in the U.S. A basic system of
this series consists of a cup-driven Direct Current (DC)
generator with an output calibrated in knots and a vane
coupled to an indicator by means of a DC synchro-system.
The ASOS uses a modern automated version of the F420,
in which electro-magnetic signals generated by the rotating
cup and wind vane are directly converted into reportable
values by ASOS.”
Something about sensor height:
“Before ASOS, airport wind sensors were generally
exposed 20 feet above ground level. With modern, highperformance
aircraft, this standard no longer applies. Now,
current federal standards for siting meteorological equipment
specify (with some variance permitted) a height
of 10 meters (32.8 feet). Typical ASOS wind sensor heights
are 33 feet or 27 feet, depending on local site-specific
restrictions or requirements. Figure 6 shows the ASOS
anemometer. The ASOS will report the following wind
related parameters.”
http://www.faasafety.gov/gslac/ALC/libview_normal.aspx?id=6303
Under WIND:
“22015G25KT is reported as the three-digit true direction to the nearest 10 degrees. Note: ATC towers, ATIS and airport advisory service report wind as magnetic.”
Every once in a while, the government manages to limit the amount of mental gymnastics by keeping the exchange rate the same. Using magnetic winds in this case.
But they taketh away with VISIBILITY:
It is inexplicably reported in STAUTE MILES instead of nautical miles.
I know that wind measuring equipment ‘may’ (non mandatory) be located in the center of the runway environment.
What technique is used to avoid jet blast (how high is the 727’s engine? DC-10’s?).
Here’s some more for the library:
http://www.nws.noaa.gov/asos/pdfs/aum-toc.pdf
In particular section 3.2 Wind (page 14 or 21 in the PDF)
“The rotating cup anemometer and the simple wind vane
are the principal indicators of wind speed and direction.
Until the mid 1940s, the electrical contacting anemometer
was the standard wind measuring instrument. Since then,
the “F420” series of instruments have become the standard
for wind measurement in the U.S. A basic system of
this series consists of a cup-driven Direct Current (DC)
generator with an output calibrated in knots and a vane
coupled to an indicator by means of a DC synchro-system.
The ASOS uses a modern automated version of the F420,
in which electro-magnetic signals generated by the rotating
cup and wind vane are directly converted into reportable
values by ASOS.”
Something about sensor height:
“Before ASOS, airport wind sensors were generally
exposed 20 feet above ground level. With modern, highperformance
aircraft, this standard no longer applies. Now,
current federal standards for siting meteorological equipment
specify (with some variance permitted) a height
of 10 meters (32.8 feet). Typical ASOS wind sensor heights
are 33 feet or 27 feet, depending on local site-specific
restrictions or requirements. Figure 6 shows the ASOS
anemometer. The ASOS will report the following wind
related parameters.”
Quote
Some of the money went with Duane, but everything that was left went floating bye-bye. There used to be an abandoned dairy farm near Tena Bar. Sometimes the water there has been said to flow both ways.
[RED]GARBAGE IN AND GARBAGE OUT! - THERE WAS NO DAIRY FARM NEAR THE WATER! Crawl back under that rock you crawled out from under!
[/RED]
Any dairy farms involved in the Weber story are in Washougal around Lake LaCames and Everett Hwy. BIG difference between a river and a lake!
![[:/]](/uploads/emoticons/dry.png "[:/]"){kind=small}
NO milk CAN involved unless you intend to milk a cow and NO dairy on the river!
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
[reply
I also know that Cook has been to the river - but, no one knows why other than greed. I won't explain that one. All the communications I made with Galen and then he just duplicated the stories but with a different subject. WHAT he doesn't know is that I have copies of almost every email I sent him - HARD COPIES and on disc. How will he make those go away? All Cook has done for yrs was plagurize everything I said and used my research and hard work to show up in Tina's office pretending to be someone who needed some help - but, tells a different story elsewhere. So what is the true story - did he tell Tina who he was or did he feed her a lie.
Deception will catch you everytime! AND I hope it HANGS him.
Cook may have for some reason been on another part of the river but NOT Tena's bar. NO one can go there ANYMORE. One can go see the Fazio's but you will NOT be allowed on the river at that point. There is nothing there to find anymore as the area has been drastically changed - not anything there that was there 41 yrs ago.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
QuoteQuoteGeorger explained:
“The idea of a CS team arose, in part, due to a
concern (conflict) between the FBI FP and Thomas'
easterly Washougal route, on top of the fact that
Palmer etal had mentioned the Washougal as a
possible source for the Tena Bar money. That theory
was very active among the FBI agents at the time of
the Tena Bar excavation. And the thought was the
Cooper money (and the sediments between bills)
might very well show traces of time spent in the
Washougal environment, prior to a later arrival at
Tena Bar (say in the flood of 1979). Palmer had
commented that he thought the Cooper money was
a 'late arrival' at Tena Bar, and he said his geology
supported that idea ... but no thorough chemistry
had ever been done on the Cooper money (several
agents said) ... which turned out to be not entirely
true. That problem was the central at the time, as
a motivation for having forensics done on the
Cooper money (finally) by somebody, and lead to
the organising of a forensic team ...”
OK, so now some more light is shed on this idiotic environment, if I managed to read that correctly.
1. Some family is on vacation.
2. A kid finds something on the beach.
3. A geologist (just one) takes ‘some’ sort of sample tangential to the currency.
4. The same geologist (one and apparently only) suggests a “possible” source for the tangential sample.
5. It’s off to the races with half cocked, half wits, haphazardly bouncing around the countryside, apparently unaware that they were, “betting on the come” where everything hinged on some Sword of Damocles knowledge set, which managed to morph into several camps of ‘thought’ from a single source. With these same fragmented groups, fighting hammer and tong, over who had the better source information. (truly the definition of imbecilic)
I can’t believe what I’m reading here. It’s truly like a Greek tragedy except there is no life lesson, just shame, humiliation and a life of well deserved scorn. One person analyzed the sample, no double blinds or cross checks. Wow, just wow.
b]4. The same geologist (one and apparently
only) suggests a “possible” source for the tangential
sample.
Its even worse than you portray. Far worser.
Worserest forte above being encamped at the shrine
of the Washougal. "We already know the money
came down the Washougal".
Todd told Harry told Faye, told John told Mary told
Maye, told Jack told Stick told Ray, told somebody
told somebody else told May ... the Washougal WAS
the source; thereby all academics put it into re-ports.
Dates uncertain well almost. All borrowed then sorta
commanded, obeyances. The Washougal must be
in the reports - God damnit! Becuz: Todd told Harry
told Faye, told John told Mary told Maye, told Jack
told Stick told Ray, told somebody told somebody
else told May. "Why dig a trench where the money
was found!? Go off that-a-way! Hell dig it in Seattle,
for all I care!. And dont save a God damned thing!"
Meanwhile the few fragment saved ship off to
Quantico, and reports evidently were made.
There are coded numbers of reports, "but dont save
them to let anyone read"!
Jerry Thomas then went forth conducting his own
extrapolations and in due course floated ten 1931
Chevies down the Wasougal and they ALL shows up
on Tena's Bar, true proof that Zeus is in charge.
Yep. It's Greekian fer sure. Aristophenes, Eu-
ripedes, Soh-krates, and then Tom Kaye-ipedes.
It all begins at Sparta engaging massive forces, in a
valley. All sacrificed including the goat. But names
left inscribed on a rock, in the Washougal!.
No small wonder my head began to spin!
Back to those Quantico reports with serial numbers.
WHERE THE FUCK ARE THEY! I AINT GONNA WAIT
TEN YEARS! Todd told Harry told Faye, told John ...
Summary report: Rounded sand (vs sharp sand?).
Consistent with "river sediment". I see! It's all
coming clear - the FAZIO FOUND THE MONEY AND
buryied some on their beachfront to throw everyone
off ... saying quickly when found ... "it cameup with
the rising tide ... I know ... I was there". There!?
There-what? We had had high tide just the day
before. Ok. You can see the money lays on the high
tide line, viola. We dont need no stinkin tests, but
I will help dig. My tractors rents for: . . .
All buddies. No cross checks needed. Todd told
Harry told Faye, told John told Mary told Maye, ...
Rounded sand consistent with river sediment. Which
River? The Patomac? ! The North Skunk? You mean
the Columbia River of course. No answer. Todd told
Harry told Faye, told John told Mary told Maye, ...
Who designed this Greek thingy? Todd told Harry told Faye, ...
Wonderful day in the neighborhood. Wouldn't you
be mine? Time to get and save your family. The
election is cancelled. Todd told Harry told Faye ...
The more I say the worse it gets!
Thank GOD! for the Kaye website. I'm retired!
Go ask Tom. I wasn't there.
Go ask Jerry Thomas. He was there!
C3? Duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.....
I cant even get this website to load or work!
Go ask Blevins. He was there!
Georger there are those who think everything you said above is hogwash - but, the basics of what you said echo my feeling about all of this. I also have a hard time getting on to the site and then I get kicked out before I can make a post. Just too difficult for me.
Perhaps one of the DZ moderators should step in and exlain to us site morons what is wrong and how we adjust our computers. Some of these guys do NOT seem to be having the same problen you and I are having - staying connected.
I found NO useful information is what Blevins instructed us to do.
Unbelievable that Blevin would write a BOOK about Cooper and do ALL the research he claimed to have done - and he HAS NEVER BEEN TO TENA's BAR. If this is true - HOW do we trust anything he has written has been RESEARCHED. After all Tena's bar research is basic 101 for anyone writing a book about Cooper - right? SO we are to believe he did ALL of this other research and never covered the basics - like Tena's bar 101.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
Farflung 0
Here are a few examples of what Towsaw did in and around Tena Bar. It appears he spent tens of thousands, since one article has him dropping $10,000 in one two month period.
There are two things mentioned that are new to me. One is the ‘clean up’ of the Columbia twice a year by salmon fishermen. If true, that’s a lot of scouring.
The second was the “list of dredging projects” and how “only one” of the projects (plural) could have been the one to put debris on Tena Bar. May be nothing, but why the implied ambiguity of looking at projects?
One more item mentioned how he hired a man to sift Tina Bar with a front loader and a screen.
There are two things mentioned that are new to me. One is the ‘clean up’ of the Columbia twice a year by salmon fishermen. If true, that’s a lot of scouring.
The second was the “list of dredging projects” and how “only one” of the projects (plural) could have been the one to put debris on Tena Bar. May be nothing, but why the implied ambiguity of looking at projects?
One more item mentioned how he hired a man to sift Tina Bar with a front loader and a screen.
Farflung 0
As if there isn’t enough mental frustration with all the bullshitting, fabricating of lore and misunderstood purity, I caught myself breaking one of the commandments analyzing the Tena Bar Tome. I didn’t start with a fresh sheet and partially digested some of the Citizen Sleuth’s tale.
So I’m reading their ‘analysis’ of how it could be this, and it couldn’t be that, and having a gay (in the non-lavender sense) old time, but couldn’t find anything about their dredge tests. I mean for all the fawking talk about what this team did with dredging, I figured there would have been a burlap sack of phone books thrown into some sort of dredging device. Or at least list the dimensions of the “wiper bar” and just how one of these things prevents rocks from entering. A 24 inch pipe is pretty large to me, but who knows what experience exists on that team or this thread?
So I find an image of a 24 inch cutter/suction dredge that has a person in the photo for scale. This is not some garden hose cleaning the fish tank here. Plus the volume performance is astonishing at hundreds of yards per hour. This thing can move a great deal of material.
Next I was looking at the Fazio operation where 90,000 yards were delivered to the site in a matter of days. The Citizen Sleuths described the money site being high on the bank and 150 yards down river from the spoils delivery point. It was too high on the bank and too far for a dredge discharge or bulldozer to push the money, and the money had rubber bands and only three bundles together. So I got hung up on the bulldozer and dithered and fretted about dump trucks and front loaders, and how that operation would appear. It was already very complex, and with all the supplemental garbage which was added it was impossible to follow. Then I had a stiff one and decided to have another, and marvel at the raw stupidity which creates this type of mind morass. Why was I worried about the bulldozer? I hadn’t eliminated other possibilities before adding a specialized piece of equipment, when my laziness should have ruled the moment. I suck.
Just like V-23 and the Columbia being my safe place to go when others are busy ass raping the realm of probabilities, I needed a safe place at Fazio’s farm. That being the money floats from V-23 to the riverbank. Whew, now I feel better. The river was already doing all the work so why would I want to insert myself into the task? Yeah, like I’m the only lazy ass. However that’s the simplest solution. But why not add a dredge?
OK, so the dredge is spewing all its semi-solid wonder on the river bank and drops the bag of money right in the pile. I would imagine that a suction dredge with a 1700 horsepower system may be quite capable of compressing a bag of waterlogged money into an impressive state. All the mens with their equipments begin to scoop and move 91,000 cubic yards of material, then do the tidy-up of the area and park their equipments for the next few years. That bag of money is still lying on/in the dredge deposit fan. Less noticeable with some wear and discoloration, but it is right in that funky fan.
Looking at the available photos of Tena Bar allows one precisely four or five, snap-shots of the last 40 years. Some may consider that a paltry sample rate and I’m one of them. But the money was found on the tree line, past where dozers operated and slightly under the surface. When I registered the images from ’74, 79’ and today, I found the bank to be extremely amorphous. Checking for floods listed the ‘big ones’ but nothing about the normal flow or discharge rates. In fact, the money discovery site appears to be submerged in the modern Google map images. The tree line on the bank serves as testament for the levels which the river commonly experiences, as the line is nearly the same from 1970 to today. So I cut some key-holes in the images and laid them over each other and could see a much simpler solution.
During some unknown amount of time, those fans were eroded and the bank went back to a linear profile. While the river was cycling through its normal level changes, it pulled away the overburden which covered the money. When the whole bag broke free it drifted briefly and snagged on some roots or branches on the river’s edge. The bag decayed (whatever) and three bundles were left behind with the rubber bands, and were eventually covered with a paucity of sand. Then it was found by Brian.
No bulldozers, no active travel from the spoil site to the discovery site, the storage yard becomes irrelevant, normal accretion buries the bundles, no need for big floods; no need for other dredging, rubber bands could survive a 150 yard journey, just two touch-points now. The dredge picks up the money bag and perhaps some other gear, the dredge deposits it on the bank, then natural and passive forces work from there.
Simplest Model (to me):
1. Cooper Jumps on V-23
2. Lands in Columbia No-pull
3. Beaches at Tena Bar
3a. via dredge removal from place other than Tena Bar
3b. via dredge deposit on Tena Bar
4. Discovered by Brian
Or…. I’m just trying to steer and push this thing because I like simple stuff first. But that’s my latest thinking, unless someone has a simpler version or more complicated solution since something proves this couldn’t happen. Again (Again for the insecure types) this is not THE solution, just the fallback when exploring other possibilities, without having to consider probabilities. I usually KISS it first.
So I’m reading their ‘analysis’ of how it could be this, and it couldn’t be that, and having a gay (in the non-lavender sense) old time, but couldn’t find anything about their dredge tests. I mean for all the fawking talk about what this team did with dredging, I figured there would have been a burlap sack of phone books thrown into some sort of dredging device. Or at least list the dimensions of the “wiper bar” and just how one of these things prevents rocks from entering. A 24 inch pipe is pretty large to me, but who knows what experience exists on that team or this thread?
So I find an image of a 24 inch cutter/suction dredge that has a person in the photo for scale. This is not some garden hose cleaning the fish tank here. Plus the volume performance is astonishing at hundreds of yards per hour. This thing can move a great deal of material.
Next I was looking at the Fazio operation where 90,000 yards were delivered to the site in a matter of days. The Citizen Sleuths described the money site being high on the bank and 150 yards down river from the spoils delivery point. It was too high on the bank and too far for a dredge discharge or bulldozer to push the money, and the money had rubber bands and only three bundles together. So I got hung up on the bulldozer and dithered and fretted about dump trucks and front loaders, and how that operation would appear. It was already very complex, and with all the supplemental garbage which was added it was impossible to follow. Then I had a stiff one and decided to have another, and marvel at the raw stupidity which creates this type of mind morass. Why was I worried about the bulldozer? I hadn’t eliminated other possibilities before adding a specialized piece of equipment, when my laziness should have ruled the moment. I suck.
Just like V-23 and the Columbia being my safe place to go when others are busy ass raping the realm of probabilities, I needed a safe place at Fazio’s farm. That being the money floats from V-23 to the riverbank. Whew, now I feel better. The river was already doing all the work so why would I want to insert myself into the task? Yeah, like I’m the only lazy ass. However that’s the simplest solution. But why not add a dredge?
OK, so the dredge is spewing all its semi-solid wonder on the river bank and drops the bag of money right in the pile. I would imagine that a suction dredge with a 1700 horsepower system may be quite capable of compressing a bag of waterlogged money into an impressive state. All the mens with their equipments begin to scoop and move 91,000 cubic yards of material, then do the tidy-up of the area and park their equipments for the next few years. That bag of money is still lying on/in the dredge deposit fan. Less noticeable with some wear and discoloration, but it is right in that funky fan.
Looking at the available photos of Tena Bar allows one precisely four or five, snap-shots of the last 40 years. Some may consider that a paltry sample rate and I’m one of them. But the money was found on the tree line, past where dozers operated and slightly under the surface. When I registered the images from ’74, 79’ and today, I found the bank to be extremely amorphous. Checking for floods listed the ‘big ones’ but nothing about the normal flow or discharge rates. In fact, the money discovery site appears to be submerged in the modern Google map images. The tree line on the bank serves as testament for the levels which the river commonly experiences, as the line is nearly the same from 1970 to today. So I cut some key-holes in the images and laid them over each other and could see a much simpler solution.
During some unknown amount of time, those fans were eroded and the bank went back to a linear profile. While the river was cycling through its normal level changes, it pulled away the overburden which covered the money. When the whole bag broke free it drifted briefly and snagged on some roots or branches on the river’s edge. The bag decayed (whatever) and three bundles were left behind with the rubber bands, and were eventually covered with a paucity of sand. Then it was found by Brian.
No bulldozers, no active travel from the spoil site to the discovery site, the storage yard becomes irrelevant, normal accretion buries the bundles, no need for big floods; no need for other dredging, rubber bands could survive a 150 yard journey, just two touch-points now. The dredge picks up the money bag and perhaps some other gear, the dredge deposits it on the bank, then natural and passive forces work from there.
Simplest Model (to me):
1. Cooper Jumps on V-23
2. Lands in Columbia No-pull
3. Beaches at Tena Bar
3a. via dredge removal from place other than Tena Bar
3b. via dredge deposit on Tena Bar
4. Discovered by Brian
Or…. I’m just trying to steer and push this thing because I like simple stuff first. But that’s my latest thinking, unless someone has a simpler version or more complicated solution since something proves this couldn’t happen. Again (Again for the insecure types) this is not THE solution, just the fallback when exploring other possibilities, without having to consider probabilities. I usually KISS it first.
377 21
Good post Farf. Soooo nice to see the forum focusing more on evidence and less on personalities.
I have taken you criticism to heart and wont repeat my Snowmman clemency plea for a while, not here, not now. I won't point out how much Snow could enhance the dredge discussion.
I used to fish out of harbors on the CA coast that had frequent dredging ops. I was always amazed to see BIG rocks make it through the dredger pump and into the spoils. You could hear them coming down the pipe. I guess a centrifugal pump can handle a lot of debris without damage. Centrifugal flow jet engines were known for the ability to eat FOD and spit it out without self destructing.
The Tena Bar money mystery eats at me constantly. Its the itch I cant scratch. KISS is the right approach though. It usually is for most itches.
377
I have taken you criticism to heart and wont repeat my Snowmman clemency plea for a while, not here, not now. I won't point out how much Snow could enhance the dredge discussion.
I used to fish out of harbors on the CA coast that had frequent dredging ops. I was always amazed to see BIG rocks make it through the dredger pump and into the spoils. You could hear them coming down the pipe. I guess a centrifugal pump can handle a lot of debris without damage. Centrifugal flow jet engines were known for the ability to eat FOD and spit it out without self destructing.
The Tena Bar money mystery eats at me constantly. Its the itch I cant scratch. KISS is the right approach though. It usually is for most itches.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
Amazon 7
QuoteGood post Farf. Soooo nice to see the forum focusing more on evidence and less on personalities.
I have taken you criticism to heart and wont repeat my Snowmman clemency plea for a while, not here, not now. I won't point out how much Snow could enhance the dredge discussion.
I used to fish out of harbors on the CA coast that had frequent dredging ops. I was always amazed to see BIG rocks make it through the dredger pump and into the spoils. You could hear them coming down the pipe. I guess a centrifugal pump can handle a lot of debris without damage. Centrifugal flow jet engines were known for the ability to eat FOD and spit it out without self destructing.
The Tena Bar money mystery eats at me constantly. Its the itch I cant scratch. KISS is the right approach though. It usually is for most itches.
377
The spoils area on Puget Island just down from my property has almost ZERO rock as a component, its all fine sand. Same goes with the spoils areas on Willow Bar and there along the WA side of the river. The Lower Columbia seems to be a huge sand deposition with that sand being redistributed when high water events come along. About the only rock you see along the banks of the Columbia for the last 100 miles is almost all RIP RAP put in place by the Corps of Engineers to keep erosion of the banks into the channel. Only down by Longview and Rainier OR do you find rock cliffs along the river where the Columbia has cut thru the Coast Range when it makes that final turn to the West-Northwest. The channel is VERY deep in that area.. and there are some HUGE sturgeon down in those swirl holes
Great way to describe the money find. I do not believe the money was planted for the boy to find...that just defies all odds.
If a member of the family planted the money they would only be pointing the money at themselves. I believe it was planted and I know I was with the man who planted it. Can I prove it - obviously not. That was not the only thing he planted - can I prove it NO. Just my memories which I have told for 17 yrs now.
Had JT have not projected himself in to what I was saying then the outcome of that documentary could have come out much differently. I used to have the Fazios number but I would NOT know were to look for it now .
When Bruce went to see him it was his own agenda and he never asked us what questions needed to be asked....Belvin would be slanted & intimidating since he has a subject. Suggest you pass on a companion other than your wife that day.
No Blevins, No Jt, No on. but yourself and wife and a list of questions everyone on the forum could suggest. You the choose the most pertinent question or combine the question so they are NOT difficult to answer. The man is a senior like myself - and overwhelming us is just that Overwhelming.
Bruce has already talked to him, but Bruce as sweet as he really is can be very demanding and very intimidation when he wants answers to question other do NOT feel comfortable with. I drew the line and he pushed and I then redrew the line and reminded him that we were NOT going to take the conversation in that directions (forgot what it was now).
Start by collecting questions to ask Fazio from the thread. Remember he is getting old - don't overwhelm him. Combine the questions and only ask the one YOU feel pertinent after you have gone over all the River info.
I am sure everyone of us have a question we would like for you to ask. We can all submit questions and then you figure out where to go with them.
I expect you will have to remind him how many different interviews he has given and make this on very different. Tell him what you want BEFORE you go - send him a written out-line of questions and requests.
I want to see pictures and pictures and pictures.
Question #1.
Picture of the tree lines and shore lines thur out the yrs - take anything he has. Flood pictures, outings on the beach...I am truely interested in the trees and tree line and wearing of the beach over the yrs. Ask the public for pictures they have made from their boat of the Fazio farm over the yrs.
Get from him a history of that property and the river - he knows it. Go for the history and not just for the crime - I think he will appreciate that. Make the story about him and what this has done to their lives along the way.
Stay focused on the questions you select, but step softly.
I was overwhelmed when I was there in 2000. It all felt wrong wrong and the tv program wanted a story - there were too many people to even be able to think. Expect they had been corrupted by JT.
NOT just one or two persons sat down with me and let me try to tell them what I needed to find. They did NOT offer me a map and the map at the hotel was not much good because our rooms where in OR and not WA.
I was ill prepared for what I faced.
NONE of the individuals had lived there. The guide - was a two yr college student! For heaven sake - they are doing a documentary and the guide did NOT know the area.
Driving fast with cameras and question and no maps for me to study. They didn't sit down with me at a table and outline the agenda with map. I guess they thought I knew the area and I do not relate well with more than one or 2 individuals at a time.
At least with the thread I can be heard but it is seldom in a continuous on subject manner. I ramble and I loose others because I am going someplace else in my mind before I finish the sentence.
If only I had the maps I acqired on my last trip in 2010 it would have been over. I went out there with nothing, but maps Sluggo provided which were better than what I had which was nothing.
I did it, but it was 10 yrs later and lots of things had changed - I did feel my way thru most of it, but didn't get to go up to the top of Green Mt. I want to see pictures of how it looked in 1979 and I want to know what Duane's connection to it was and why he took me there.
If as the FBI claimed Duane was not in McNeil and never a resident of WA - how the HELL did he know were all of those place where without a map and how did he know those individuals he mentioned? Where did he go for over 5 hour going and 5 hours in Seattle. Why did he ORDER me to saty in the car or send me on a little erran in the opposite direction. Like a the RED LiON - he knew where the machines where and the restroom and that I would NOt be able to see what he was doing on the river.
What was so improtant he had to throw it in the river - why not just in a trash can. Why didn't I reach down and pick up that bag and look in it...perhaps if I did I hame have turned up dead or he would haver ran off again and started over again.
Oh well it is like an easter egg hunt that will never end. i know if I could get out there again I ouod find the answers I am lookkn for but all of those are now deceased
If these guys can get certain record opened I coud come hom a very happy woman. Next time I do no leave with out a show down with the FBI.
Got to go very very tired.
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