Chaucer 103 #63301 February 27 16 hours ago, dudeman17 said: No, the lip thing is a fairly common part of the description and would not stand out. Someone mentioned a tic. I think this is the origin of the tic notion. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cola 26 #63302 February 27 On 4/5/2020 at 9:51 PM, dudeman17 said: Yes, the DB Cooper Forum. The 'Clues, Documents, and Evidence' thread, page 357, 5 posts down, by poster Prospector. Dude.... you brought that up 4 years ago.... 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 197 #63303 February 27 (edited) 2 hours ago, Chaucer said: I think this is the origin of the tic notion. If thats true the person has medical records. It might relate to his grudge - unemployable ? Needs money. Has a history. ....... would show up in any serological tests. FBI didnt do any serology ?! Paranoid personality with a history? Vietnam ? Has been living under some bridge or at the Molalah Motel with the Unabomber and the 'Commander' of the Upper Room ? Is headed for "The Place you would like ... Minnesota is Nice Country ... Get the show on the road ..." There is a file on this guy somewhere - - - may have received Voc Rehab services ? If that were to turn out true the FBI would have some explaining to do - how they missed DB Cooper in plain sight ? Edited February 27 by georger 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dudeman17 270 #63304 February 28 (edited) 8 hours ago, Chaucer said: I think this is the origin of the tic notion. Yes. Not sure who 'Prospector' is. Edited February 28 by dudeman17 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dudeman17 270 #63305 February 28 7 hours ago, Cola said: Dude.... you brought that up 4 years ago.... Yes I did and I thought I indicated as much. Olemiss' post about Rose reminded me of it, and since there are a few more knowledgeable people around here who weren't posting back then, including yourself, I thought I'd ask again. I apologize if I disrupted the constant flow of brand new evidence. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cola 26 #63307 February 28 15 hours ago, dudeman17 said: Yes I did and I thought I indicated as much. Olemiss' post about Rose reminded me of it, and since there are a few more knowledgeable people around here who weren't posting back then, including yourself, I thought I'd ask again. I apologize if I disrupted the constant flow of brand new evidence. Don't apologize - I was going for some levity and a bit of humor in my post - but I missed on my delivery, so I'm sorry I was not so overt..... We're good. I think all ideas, notions, conjectures, speculations, and random inputs are welcome here!! Prospector's assertion was interesting. However, I've seen nothing of the 302's or in News print so far attributing any tic to Coops. We can always hold out hope that if we ever receive the handwritten Agent interview notes there may be such a notation. Personally - I've had several episodes of having tics in my life - all being trauma related and stress induced. I think a tic in Coops is certainly within the realm of possible for several reasons. First I have no doubt that Coops has some form of trauma in his life. I'd say that a trauma of some form comes with the territory of a man engaged in such a job. Second a tic as a post traumatic movement in my mind would flair with stress and psychotic episodes. I would certainly believe that Coops was experiencing stress and a psychotic episode before, during and after the event. I don’t think this Job was all about the money. In my mind, Coops was battling some form of inner turmoil surrounding the event. I happen to think that a sense of fantasy, grandeur and his ego compelled him as much as the money. He may have had a need for the money, but to me I want to believe that the job was intoxicating that he was having a manic episode a crisis of self-identity that this job could also fix. I don't believe that these psychotic or manic episodes would rise to the level of medial treatment. That Cooper being the man that he was just sucked it up and went on with life. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 197 #63308 February 28 (edited) 1 hour ago, Cola said: Don't apologize - I was going for some levity and a bit of humor in my post - but I missed on my delivery, so I'm sorry I was not so overt..... We're good. I think all ideas, notions, conjectures, speculations, and random inputs are welcome here!! Prospector's assertion was interesting. However, I've seen nothing of the 302's or in News print so far attributing any tic to Coops. We can always hold out hope that if we ever receive the handwritten Agent interview notes there may be such a notation. Personally - I've had several episodes of having tics in my life - all being trauma related and stress induced. I think a tic in Coops is certainly within the realm of possible for several reasons. First I have no doubt that Coops has some form of trauma in his life. I'd say that a trauma of some form comes with the territory of a man engaged in such a job. Second a tic as a post traumatic movement in my mind would flair with stress and psychotic episodes. I would certainly believe that Coops was experiencing stress and a psychotic episode before, during and after the event. I don’t think this Job was all about the money. In my mind, Coops was battling some form of inner turmoil surrounding the event. I happen to think that a sense of fantasy, grandeur and his ego compelled him as much as the money. He may have had a need for the money, but to me I want to believe that the job was intoxicating that he was having a manic episode a crisis of self-identity that this job could also fix. I don't believe that these psychotic or manic episodes would rise to the level of medial treatment. That Cooper being the man that he was just sucked it up and went on with life. The short version is: neurological tics can be stressed induced and temporary. Like being a famous baseball player - for a day. Edited February 28 by georger 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cola 26 #63309 February 28 24 minutes ago, georger said: The short version is: neurological tics can be stressed induced and temporary. Like being a famous baseball player - for a day. 50 years later what evidentiary value is there in knowing if he had a tic or not. It's past it's usefulness at this point if true. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dudeman17 270 #63310 February 29 7 hours ago, Cola said: Don't apologize - I was going for some levity and a bit of humor in my post - but I missed on my delivery, so I'm sorry I was not so overt..... We're good. Uh oh, now I'm exposed as a bit of a hypocrite, haha. I make some slightly smart-ass remarks myself, but it's always done tongue-in-cheek and with a smile, hoping for a dry chuckle. That I failed to see that in your post leaves me with a bit of egg on my grinning face. Good indeed. 5 hours ago, Cola said: 50 years later what evidentiary value is there in knowing if he had a tic or not. It's past it's usefulness at this point if true. I'm not sure about that. That's a fairly distinct identifier, if true. If somebody out there had suspicions about somebody, something like that might bring out a new suspect to be looked into. I've sometimes thought that somebody out there know who Cooper is, but nobody believes them. For example, that MMA guy, Sonnen, thinks it was a friend of his dad. I'm not saying I believe that, but for the sake of argument, what if he's right? He didn't come up with that through thorough research, he just happens to know the guy. So if he has some case details wrong, so what? If he hasn't discussed it in detail with the guy, what would he know about the case other that what he has casually heard? (I think I've said that before, too, hehe.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
olemisscub 466 #63311 February 29 20 hours ago, Cola said: 50 years later what evidentiary value is there in knowing if he had a tic or not. It's past it's usefulness at this point if true. It would certainly present some strong circumstantial evidence for a suspect. Regardless, it isn’t true. There is nothing in the files about such a thing. If Cooper indeed had such a unique trait, that would be in the files literally hundreds of times. Every description of Cooper ever sent out to law enforcement agencies would have had that listed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chaucer 103 #63312 February 29 OK, let's pump the brakes here. This is how misinformation enters the Vortex and takes on a life of its own. The origin of the "facial tic" notion was CONJECTURE by "Prospector" on the DB Cooper Forum several years ago. It is pure speculation on that person's part and is not based on any actual evidence. That doesn't mean it's not a valuable discussion, but to be clear, it is derived entirely by a supposition by someone, not any actual evidence. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ParrotheadVol 70 #63313 February 29 On 2/27/2024 at 11:11 PM, olemisscub said: I enjoyed it. Now, wait for it....the next batch of files will "surprisingly" have his name in them. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 197 #63314 March 1 10 hours ago, Chaucer said: OK, let's pump the brakes here. This is how misinformation enters the Vortex and takes on a life of its own. The origin of the "facial tic" notion was CONJECTURE by "Prospector" on the DB Cooper Forum several years ago. It is pure speculation on that person's part and is not based on any actual evidence. That doesn't mean it's not a valuable discussion, but to be clear, it is derived entirely by a supposition by someone, not any actual evidence. Well crap. No Aboulomania ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Cooper Vortex 73 #63315 March 5 New episode out now! DB Cooper: What Really Happened with our good friend Marty Andrade. https://thecoopervortex.podbean.com/e/db-cooper-what-really-happened-martin-andrade/ Enjoy! 5 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chaucer 103 #63316 March 5 (edited) 14 minutes ago, The Cooper Vortex said: New episode out now! DB Cooper: What Really Happened with our good friend Marty Andrade. https://thecoopervortex.podbean.com/e/db-cooper-what-really-happened-martin-andrade/ Enjoy! Edited March 5 by Chaucer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chaucer 103 #63317 March 5 Other than the obvious huge news from this episode (I won't spoil it for those who have not heard it), the other "holy shit" moment was realizing that Jo Weber knew about Dr. Roman and the double homicide long before it recently came out in the Vault. It is absolutely remarkable how much knowledge - even minute, seemingly innocuous details - she possessed long before the files began to be released. She had to have had access to them from some agent or former agent. Eng? Himmelsbach? The Vortex swirls... 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanCooperHimself 9 #63318 March 5 19 hours ago, The Cooper Vortex said: New episode out now! DB Cooper: What Really Happened with our good friend Marty Andrade. https://thecoopervortex.podbean.com/e/db-cooper-what-really-happened-martin-andrade/ Enjoy! My experience of Stylometry in my writing career and how it’s relevant to Martin Andrade’s ground breaking research in unveiling Barb Dayton as “Clara” as the very likely informant for DB Cooper: What Really Happened in at least in one letter. Stylometry is the forensic application of AI, and study to determine the authorship of anonymous sources or true authorship for disputed authorship of written materials/content. Here’s a couple of my experiences 1) My main gig in life is writing, teaching, content on Autism/ADHD etc and I’ve had cases where my blogs/writings/content were taken by competitors. I sued for plagiarism and using stylometry - it was deemed my content was copied/stolen and they had rebranded my work as their own and it was settled before hearing so no more discussion on that. They were caught RED handed and their defense counsel told them to accept settling and not enter the court because their winning margin was 0. 2) For the writing of my novel ‘Dan Cooper’ - I had to completely change my writing style from Irish/European tone/sentence structure, spelling, grammar etc. I invested heavily in writing courses and research to get this right. I didn’t want my narrator ‘Dan Cooper’ sounding like me or reading like someone would feel JUDE was talking to the reader. From critics, human readers - people who know me picked up some “Jude-isms” and had to keep some European-isms in there to suit a global readerbase. ‘Dan Cooper’ as a novel is Cooper being the narrator and giving his why and how. The closest text to mine in this topic area was DB Cooper: What Really Happened - by Max Gunther which is a remarkable work that we all like. So a sample of my first book was sent to Marty. Then a sample of ‘Dan Cooper’. Despite months of effort to disguise my voice - Marty’s software busted me. It came back that it was me to a much lesser extent than Barb Dayton came back as the author of the letters to Ralph Himmelsbach etc. Barb didn’t write these letters with AI Stylometric detection software so she is considered caught in this regard. I wrote intentionally to disguise myself and it was identifiably me to a point where in a court of law I’d be convicted of fraud if I wrote ‘Dan Cooper’ under a false pen name and claimed it as a TRUE CONFESSION. The software would know it’s me. For those new - Gunther’s book was marketed as an anonymous source work that blurred the lines between fiction and reality in a similar fashion to In Cold Blood by Truman Capote. There was long term debate in the vortex to the authenticity of Gunther’s sources - but as a literary work to leave a legacy of debate for 39 years post release is a remarkable and one-off achievement by an author. Gunther was not dishonest - he told a story that was told to him - most certainly by Barb Dayton. So what does this mean for the DB Cooper Community? 1) Barb Dayton was most certainly not DB Cooper - the informing details provided are contrary to the case evidence uncovered over years. Barb is my favourite Vortex story and I love her. I share Darren’s Schaefers sentiment that I want her to be DB Cooper. 2) That Max Gunther’s work is of no evidentiary value to the case but has been a huge catalyst to discussion and debate almost 5 decades post-pub which is a remarkable and unheard of achievement which every author would be honoured to have. His family should be very proud of the impact of the work for sure. 3) That William J Smith was not DB Cooper. The parallels drawn to him using this text as a piece of evidence are now completely null and void. This research has moved the case forward - it has eliminated 2 people from enquiry. WJ Smith 100% so, Barb 99% so. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 197 #63319 March 5 (edited) 20 hours ago, The Cooper Vortex said: New episode out now! DB Cooper: What Really Happened with our good friend Marty Andrade. https://thecoopervortex.podbean.com/e/db-cooper-what-really-happened-martin-andrade/ Enjoy! The tape ran out before Andrade could explain the tie connection to Barb Dayton. Could you tell us what Andrade says about this? The tie vs Barb Dayton ? Where Dayton got the tie ??? It is interesting that Barb Dayton was actually Clara ? wow ... Edited March 5 by georger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 197 #63320 March 5 (edited) 1 hour ago, Chaucer said: Other than the obvious huge news from this episode (I won't spoil it for those who have not heard it), the other "holy shit" moment was realizing that Jo Weber knew about Dr. Roman and the double homicide long before it recently came out in the Vault. It is absolutely remarkable how much knowledge - even minute, seemingly innocuous details - she possessed long before the files began to be released. She had to have had access to them from some agent or former agent. Eng? Himmelsbach? The Vortex swirls... May be as simple as Sluggo explained. Jo's tool was her telephone. A million calls to everyone and anyone over the years - she kept files on people to call... Jo supposedly found an attorney in Portland who worked in the District Attorney's office who was always in touch with what the FBI was doing in the Cooper case. Jo and that woman had regular conversations according to Sluggo. (I posted this years ago. I forget the attorney's name.) Edited March 5 by georger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
olemisscub 466 #63321 March 5 33 minutes ago, georger said: The tape ran out before Andrade could explain the tie connection to Barb Dayton. Could you tell us what Andrade says about this? The tie vs Barb Dayton ? Where Dayton got the tie ??? It is interesting that Barb Dayton was actually Clara ? wow ... Marty isn’t saying Barb is Cooper. He’s simply saying that she was Clara. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
olemisscub 466 #63322 March 5 30 minutes ago, georger said: May be as simple as Sluggo explained. Jo's tool was her telephone. A million calls to everyone and anyone over the years - she kept files on people to call... Jo supposedly found an attorney in Portland who worked in the District Attorney's office who was always in touch with what the FBI was doing in the Cooper case. Jo and that woman had regular conversations according to Sluggo. (I posted this years ago. I forget the attorney's name.) I think there is a very strong likelihood that she actually got to spend some time with the 302’s. I suspect she bugged Eng enough that he may have relented and let her look at them. Too many things DEEP in the 302’s that she knew about: Dr. Roman, Heisson store, Coffelt being James Earl Ray’s cell mate (which she co-opted and claimed it was actually Duane being the cell mate) and then the time she called me and asked if Duane could have had anything to do with the assassination of Medgar Evers (since my office was the one who prosecuted the assassin). I was flabbergasted. “Where the hell is this lady coming up with this”, I was thinking. Then sure enough a couple of years ago I come across a 302 about Byron DeLa Beckwith, the assassin of Evers. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrade1812 51 #63323 March 5 2 hours ago, georger said: The tape ran out before Andrade could explain the tie connection to Barb Dayton. Could you tell us what Andrade says about this? The tie vs Barb Dayton ? Where Dayton got the tie ??? It is interesting that Barb Dayton was actually Clara ? wow ... I was trying to say that the tie was the only connection that *could* be made between Barb and the hijacking since both her stories lack "guilty knowledge" of the events on the plane. Barb did work scores of jobs as Bobby, and focusing on connecting the tie to her was the avenue I suggested to the Formans. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cola 26 #63324 March 6 On 3/5/2024 at 12:35 AM, The Cooper Vortex said: New episode out now! DB Cooper: What Really Happened with our good friend Marty Andrade. https://thecoopervortex.podbean.com/e/db-cooper-what-really-happened-martin-andrade/ Enjoy! Daren, Love your work, keep it coming. 1 hour ago, Andrade1812 said: Marty - I'd vote not to update the book its timeless already. What software or site did you use to identify the charlatan? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
olemisscub 466 #63325 March 6 This is the only thing worthy of mentioning out of the latest Vault release. It's Hal Williams looking at photos and he discusses Cooper's hair a little bit. He seems to be criticizing the Bing sketch for not having enough hair and for the hair not being curlier. Also says Bing's head is too narrow. And it's too bad that we don't know who the suspect is who is redacted since he says Cooper looked five years older than whomever this suspect is. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
