drenaline 0 #1 September 29, 2003 This comes from another thread, the hook knive thread. So here is the situation: you open your reserve and when you check the reserve it shows a not so nice line over. Question: What will you do? you have a hook knife with you, you can cut the line if you want. HISPA 21 www.panamafreefall.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hazarrd 1 #2 September 29, 2003 I think one of the major factors in a situation like this iswhat your altitide is and how bad the line over is, i.e. how fast your falling. .-. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blahr 0 #3 September 29, 2003 What I would do depends on what line was over and wether or not the canopy was still landable. I dont think there is a "right" answer to this question. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #4 September 29, 2003 I don't have a hook knife so I'd be trying anything else. Pull on some strings, throw a shoe at it, pray, anything. If everything fails, I guess I'm landing the lineover. I plan to get a hook knife when I buy a new rig. Not sure I'd know what to do with it, but it'll look cool. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #5 September 29, 2003 You skipped the part where you are spinning into the ground. If I'm spinning, I'm trying whatever I can, including cutting the line. If it's steerable, I'll try to clear it by pulling on risers and lines, but wouldn't cut it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,141 #6 September 29, 2003 Pretty much what he said. It's an individual situation, that needs an individual response. It doesn't do any good to use a hook knife to cut the wrong line, so I'm almost certain to try other methods first. Then look at cutting lines. My arms aren't long, so I don't have as much play room in following lines etc. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #7 September 29, 2003 QuoteYou skipped the part where you are spinning into the ground. If I'm spinning, I'm trying whatever I can, including cutting the line. If it's steerable, I'll try to clear it by pulling on risers and lines, but wouldn't cut it. Interesting. If it's got a line-over, and flying relatively straight, the line-over is PROBABLy right over the middle of the canopy. By trying to clear it, you will move the line over to the edges in the hope it'll make it all the way off. Line-overs near the edge do NOT fly straight. They spin incredibly fast, just as fast as the quickest spinning malfunctions. By attempting to clear your line-over by pulling lines and risers, you have (I think) most likely made the situation much worse by now putting yourself into a spinning malfunction. I would also prefer not to land a line-over flying straight. The distortion done to the canopy will result in a very high verticle speed, I doubt it could be landed safely. It seems to me that the only good answer to a line-over flying straight is to cut that line. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #8 September 29, 2003 Well, my point is, I'll do a controllability check. If it's ok, I'll land it. If not, I'll try to clear it..including trying to cut the line. What I won't do is just try to land a spinning reserve instead of risk cutting the wrong line. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #9 September 29, 2003 QuoteInteresting. If it's got a line-over, and flying relatively straight, the line-over is PROBABLy right over the middle of the canopy. By trying to clear it, you will move the line over to the edges in the hope it'll make it all the way off. I've also been told that a line over that's flying straight and level now could easily become a spinning mess of crap in a few seconds. I'll try and cut the offending line. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 187 #10 September 29, 2003 QuoteThis comes from another thread, the hook knive thread. So here is the situation: you open your reserve and when you check the reserve it shows a not so nice line over. Question: What will you do? you have a hook knife with you, you can cut the line if you want. Even though I carry multiple hook knives as a matter of course, I don't view it as a panacea. I have cleared a lineover (on a main) by briskly hauling down on risers on the offending side, which caused the line to pop free. Since reserves tend to be low aspect ratio 7 cells, they are not subject to the wild spinning you might find on a hot elliptical, but it is still a good idea to stay the hell away from the brakes as long as possible. Clearing the brakes tends to exacerbate any tendency to turn that results from the lineover - on a high performance canopy this can mean going from a mild turn to spinning violently on your back. If you are going to use your hook knife, your best bet is to cut the steering line on the fouled side. The steering line accounts for almost all lineovers. I would recommend leaving the other side alone and steering with risers. Whatever you do, it is best to do it FAST. You are under your reserve, remember? Thus, you are likely a lot lower than opening under your main, and your glide ratio under a lineover is going to be less than normal (for the reserve). This is a tough bit of advice, but whatever you do - LOOK AROUND! If you fail to maintain an adequate scan such that you fixate on one aspect of your situation, you may have success with clearing the mal only to find that you've backed yourself into a fatal corner. Whenever I chop, I make damned sure I have enough air under me for the reserve to have a chance to open. One last, fast scan won't waste but a second, and may well save your life. Be advised that in this sport, indecision has the capacity to be fatal. Blue skies, Winsor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aviatrr 0 #11 September 30, 2003 QuoteLine-overs near the edge do NOT fly straight. They spin incredibly fast, just as fast as the quickest spinning malfunctions. Not necessarily. I had a line over on a moderately loaded nine cell elliptical that was on the second cell in from the right and the canopy flew relatively well. It kinda rocked side to side a little, but no more than 20 degree heading change each way. When I grabbed the toggles and unstowed the brakes to attempt to clear it, all hell broke loose and it did not clear....but started spinning wildly. I screwed with it for about 10 seconds, then chopped it. QuoteBy attempting to clear your line-over by pulling lines and risers, you have (I think) most likely made the situation much worse by now putting yourself into a spinning malfunction. For me, grabbing the toggles made a not so bad situation(certainly not a landable canopy, but not spinning) get really bad in about a half a second. QuoteIt seems to me that the only good answer to a line-over flying straight is to cut that line. On a reserve, I definitely agree. On a main, if there is any chance of clearing it without cutting a line, I'll give it a shot....I can always use my reserve. If I'm too low to chop, I'll try to cut the line....but likely won't have time if I'm THAT low. I'd rather not get into cutting things unless I absolutely have to....and if I have a reserve still in the container, I don't feel that I HAVE to. Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kris 0 #12 September 30, 2003 QuoteLine-overs near the edge do NOT fly straight. They spin incredibly fast, just as fast as the quickest spinning malfunctions. Mine two weekends back wasn't bad at all. It was in-between the outside & 2nd cells on my Stiletto (loaded about 1.35) and it was a pretty gentle turn. I popped the brakes and it cleared pretty easily with a quick flare almost to stall. Too bad during the opening the 2nd cell in on the other side got shredded due to the hard opening.Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lazyfrog 0 #13 September 30, 2003 i think I would try and cut it...---------- Fumer tue, péter pue ------------- ourson #10, Mosquito Uno, CBT 579 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #14 September 30, 2003 You look at the lines and cut the one you think. I was told start with the inside and work out or I would quickly end up with a very small canopy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 0 #15 September 30, 2003 QuoteI was told start with the inside and work out Your verbage makes it sound like your goal is to get them all... www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #16 September 30, 2003 lol - if get them all means get all of the lines causing a line over then I guess that would have to be right. I guess what I mean/what my instructor ment was "if in doubt, go for the outer one first". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #17 September 30, 2003 You can try to cut it with a hook knife, but that is much harder than you would think...and if you have one of thise wimpy plastic ones good luck getting it to do more than break on you."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
relyon 0 #18 September 30, 2003 Depending on altitude, I'd probably try to clearing it with a deep rear riser stall first. Next I'd go for cutting the offending line. If none of that worked or I was really low (< 500') to begin with, I'd do my best to aim for something soft, hold it straight, and hope for the best. Bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikeat10500 9 #19 September 30, 2003 Reserve lineover, What will you do? Answer: all of the above. Low alti...ride it in(round for me thanks!) 10,000' with line over, work it off or cut it...don't want the line to saw my reserve in half. I don't always wear a knife, but when I do...it's a big one. I have never used it or even thought about it being there, when in trouble. Two things about hook knifes...they are useless if you don't remember you have one...or drop it as soon as you grab it.----------------------------------- Mike Wheadon B-3715,HEMP#1 Higher Expectations for Modern Parachutists. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TattooedMoFo 0 #20 September 30, 2003 Quote*** On a reserve, I definitely agree. On a main, if there is any chance of clearing it without cutting a line, I'll give it a shot....I can always use my reserve. If I'm too low to chop, I'll try to cut the line....but likely won't have time if I'm THAT low. I'd rather not get into cutting things unless I absolutely have to....and if I have a reserve still in the container, I don't feel that I HAVE to. Mike On this part of a reply here lack of understanding of when to use your knife is apparent. You don't use a hook knife to cut a line on a line over on a main, you chop it. A hook knife is only used when you have a problem on a main reserve, like a line over ( okay i know excluding before anyone says it, cutting a riser or something of the sort on a main, after you have cut away but you still have your main dangling above you) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 0 #21 September 30, 2003 QuoteOn this part of a reply here lack of understanding of when to use your knife is apparent. You don't use a hook knife to cut a line on a line over on a main, you chop it. A hook knife is only used when you have a problem on a main reserve, like a line over ( okay i know excluding before anyone says it, cutting a riser or something of the sort on a main, after you have cut away but you still have your main dangling above you) Actually, he said he WOULDN'T use his hook knife on his main unless he was too low to cutaway. I had a hard time understanding your post (especially the first sentence... though I think you're implying that Mike is wrong, yet you then go on to agree with him), and I'm not sure WTF you're talking about when you refer to a "main reserve." Unless you have backup reserves... www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TattooedMoFo 0 #22 September 30, 2003 QuoteQuoteOn this part of a reply here lack of understanding of when to use your knife is apparent. You don't use a hook knife to cut a line on a line over on a main, you chop it. A hook knife is only used when you have a problem on a main reserve, like a line over ( okay i know excluding before anyone says it, cutting a riser or something of the sort on a main, after you have cut away but you still have your main dangling above you) Actually, he said he WOULDN'T use his hook knife on his main unless he was too low to cutaway. I had a hard time understanding your post (especially the first sentence... though I think you're implying that Mike is wrong, yet you then go on to agree with him), and I'm not sure WTF you're talking about when you refer to a "main reserve." Unless you have backup reserves... Firstly , a typo on the main reserve should have deleted Main there, my mistake, but becareful when flamming out of hand... For you i'll put it in a an easy to understand way. Never use a hook knife on a Main canopy to cut a line on a line over malfunction, except to cut a riser that may still be attached after you have cut it away, or any other similar situation that may warrant it. So here Mike was wrong and i don't agree at all with him on that. Why would he be to low to cut away???? That would happen if if was trying to cut a line over malfunction out. Have a malfunction cutaway....it not rocket science. ( no offense to you Mike) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 0 #23 September 30, 2003 My intent was not to flame... but back on topic... I still agree with Mike that if you are too low to cutaway then cutting the lineover is vaild. I agree with you that you *shouldn't* ever be that low, but I think we can all agree that many things happen in skydiving which shouldn't. He was simply saying that is the only situation he would justify snipping a main line on, and I think I agree...www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TattooedMoFo 0 #24 September 30, 2003 No problem, that's why i posted in HookKnife thread that Billvon should interact here and give proper advice and guidelines on a procedure that may be adhered to, esp. for newbies who don't get the neccessary traing on when and when not to use a knife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #25 September 30, 2003 I have cleared several line-overs on main canopies by pulling them into a deep stall then rapidly letting up on the toggles. As the canopy dives forward, all the lines go slack, and the offending line-over usually slides off the top of the canopy. All of those line-overs on mains were attributed to sloppy packing. If I EVER see any rigger packing any reserve that sloppily, I will kick him so hard, his breath will taste like boot polish! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
