What can we do about Skyride?

[skybytch 259]

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I am trying to find out facts without having to read through every single one of these posts

Here ya go. I found that by typing "skyride" into Google.

[Greene 0]

Hello, there
Do you really think this a student asking a question?

All I can say is that we would wish that all students would be this smart and do that much "reasearch"

[Greene 0]

OH, please give us a break from your ramblings.

You know more about skydiving. thus your questions alone have outed you

[Greene 0]

"Can't we all just get along". That statement alone tells me you have been reading dropzone.com for a while. That is a very common quote on this website.

You are not who you claim to be, or for that matter who you want to be.

Are you "katseyes" in disquise once again?

[NickDG 23]

Unless they live in a town with a big DZ, or have friends that jump, potential students have no idea how skydiving operations are set up and run. For all they know it could be like a traveling carnival that comes into town from time to time.

The most gullible students (probably 98% of them) would do anything you told them to do on the phone. They could be told no food by mouth after midnight the day before they jump and they'd believe it.

Instructors (and most up jumpers) consider skydiving students inviolate. They're our most innocent class of jumper and they deserve our protection. The fact this even has to be said points to how low the sport has sunk.

I've said this before, but the sad part is had skyride been set up right they could have still been wildly successful. Had they sent jumpers to the nearest DZ, had they not sold them extras like weather insurance, big plane upgrades, and other stuff that is not industry standard, had they not gouged them on the price, but just charged a little more . . .

Skyride could have done the national advertising while the DZ's handled their local markets and it could have worked out just fine for both. But instead they lied, they stole and they cheated. And like a fly-by-night tandem mill operation, Skyride will milk this for all they can get and then someday suddenly disappear.

The greatest gift we get from students is their trust and Skyride violates that trust . . .

NickD BASE 194

[littleskycrab 0]

Well, Miss "I asked a 100 ??'s before my first jump" do a little freakin' research and find out about Skyride your damn self!!! Of course alot of these posts are angry - we have reason to be! Our favorite thing (skydiving) is being shit on by these shifty little bastards all in the name of "doing it FOR skydiving" My ass they are!! They are doing it for themselves! I have personally called Skyride and pretended to want to book a Tandem. I told them what city I was in and asked if there was a DZ in my city. These shiffty bastards told me "NO" that there was no DZ in said city. I started laughing and the girl on the other end of the phone wanted to know what was so funny - that's when I informed her that I am a fun jumper at the non-existent DZ - she hung up on me .

Invest yourself in our sport, put in the time, money and dedication - I'm willing to bet after a short while - Skyride will piss you off too.

I don't mean to sound like I'm chewing your ass, but hey, you made this BIG post about how we shouldn't get mad because "john q public" didn't do his homework and yet you are freaking clueless on the subject of skyride.

How about this - go do some research on skyride and THEN come back and post.

QUOTE: You guys can all make fun and your rude and nasty comments all you want. I am trying to find out facts without having to read through every single one of these posts :END QUOTE - So you're basically like "john q. public" you want the EASY answer.

I will tell you that the men in this sport treat the skywomen awesome. The skydivers that have become my extended family mean a great deal to me and I to them. Maybe this really isn't for you - it takes much thicker skin than you have. And believe me - it doesn't matter where you post - if you're unnecessary comment removed by slotperfect - you're going to get flamed. Live with it. Oh yeah........ welcome to skydiving........ where people let you know what they REALLY think.

Next time a sunrise steals your breath or a meadow of flowers leaves you speechless, remain that way. Say nothing and listen as heaven whispers, "Do you like it? I did it just for you."

[slotperfect 7]

To myskyname: In case you are not aware, Moderators can view IP addresses.

To all: keep it civil. PAs, even toward posters of questionable intent, are not allowed.

Back to the important conversation at hand.

Arrive Safely

John

[CSpenceFLY 1]

I think in a case like this you should be allowed to post the IP.


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[ladyskydiver 0]

I'd say that with the fact the IP comment was made says everything.

Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile.

[smiles 0]

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Legal action on the part of any of the wronged businesses is futile in most respects as the cost of fighting them will outweigh any benifit and is therefore totally unfeasable.

Hey!
I am wondering why any dzo's would support a jack-ass operation like skyride????
__________________________________

I jump at Abbotsford Skydive Centre, Vancouver B.C. Canada.

For over 5 years now they have spent huge advertising money to promote "Vancouver Skydiving" as their business.
This includes a shop located in the city of Vancouver available for registration and shuttle service to the d.z. in Abbotsford (for first time Tandem jumpers) Their website url is:
http://www.vancouver-skydiving.bc.ca
(bc.ca is domain for british columbia/canada business)

There are 2 dz's operating in Vancouver area:
1 in Abbotsford
1 in Pitt Meadows

Pitt Meadows d.z. is named "Pacific Skydivers" and their website url is:
http://www.pacificskydivers.bc.ca
Great group of respectable skydivers except for their d.z. business operation supports a jack-ass operation.

When doing google search for Vancouver Skydiving:
http://www.vancouverskydiving.com/
is listed.
---This website named "Skydive Vancouver" in British Columbia with a 1 800 583-JUMP phone number- no info on where d.z. is located. I called the number and asked is this Skydive Vancouver? I was told yes-then I asked where in Vancouver is your d.z. located?
I was told: "Pitt Meadows- Pacific Skydivers is where we operate from."

So- this d.z. is accepting Tandem jumpers that are booked through..... 1 800 583 JUMP which appears to me the same scam operators as Skyride.
Talk about a desperate business ploy for a d.z. operator???


Recently Pitt Meadows d.z. operators have also purchased domain of:
http://www.skydivevancouver.com/
Of course this domain forwards to their:
http://www.pacificskydivers.bc.ca website.
So when google search for: Skydive Vancouver one gets Pacific Skydivers website.


How to operate your business is your own personal business- stoop as low as you want.....use every option available to you- competition is the name of the game?????????????


"what goes around, comes around"

SMiles

eustress. : a positive form of stress having a beneficial effect on health, motivation, performance, and emotional well-being.

[PhreeZone 15]

Anyone using non top level domain names to promote their business and not buying the TLD when its availble has no one to blame but themselves.

http://www.vancouverskydiving.com is a Skyride/ThrillPlanet website.

The second one is ligit and its actually a good business decision based on how search engines work. I'm surprised it wasn't bought earlier actaully by Skyride for themselves.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[AndyMan 7]

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Anyone using non top level domain names to promote their business and not buying the TLD when its availble has no one to blame but themselves.

.ca and .[prov].ca are very common among Canadian business. They are not considered second rate like their .us equivalents.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[Thanatos340 1]

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I do have a question about what that guy said about the phone number thing. Is that legally possible?

Legally?? NO, Not at all. But that didn’t stop them.

FACT:
Shortly after Chris Martins Death, The 1-800 number for his dropzone was rerouted to Skyride.

How did Skyride do this?? I don’t know.

When his Widow and best friend called the phone company to find out what the hell was going on, They were told the "Chris Martin" had called shortly after his death and had the number rerouted. To make matter worse, They had a Code word put on the account that made it very difficult for the rightful owners to get it changed back.

Why Criminal Charges were never Pressed?? I wish I knew the answer to that one, But I dont think that the statute of limitations has run out yet on that one..

[CSpenceFLY 1]

Chris Martin must have been looking out for the best interest of skydiving...from the grave.


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[carbonezone 0]

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I guess I will not post here anymore, will go to the womens section or somewhere where people will be honest and give advice and not rake me over the coals. Cant we all just get along?

Hello Lisa,
How are you doing? I really agree with you and I think we should all just get along. Hey, I see that your home DZ is Skydive City......mine too . I would love to meet with you to chat and have a beer shoot me a PM.
Cheers,
Tami

[winsor 186]

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There have been plenty of threads on here about Skyride and their unethical and even illegal tactics. The Capital Commentary stopped short of using their name this month.

Is there anything we, as a community, can do to shut this down before they cause lasting damage to the industry? Before the find a way to steal student business from the real dropzones and cause them to eventually shut down?

The only idea I have ever heard someone willing to take was to google bomb them using blogs. I've heard of photographers and instructors saying they can't afford to sue them, maybe we can put together a fund to help with the costs of a lawyer?

Any ideas or anyone willing to do this?

I have been pondering this issue, and I think it is hardly as clear as it might seem.

One of the phenomena I have witnessed over the years is the capacity of avaricious individuals to make available a product or service. It does not matter what are the properties of the product or service per se; it need only serve as the basis for profit.

The adage of "build a better mousetrap, and the world will beat a path to your door" is nonsense. While you are sitting around with your "better mousetrap," some huckster out there is selling millions of some "inferior" design.

From the standpoint of skydiving, there is a long tradition of goniffs prevailing. I knew one of the Founders of the Sport, who was a Major Manufacturer and held patents that covered E) all the above. It was considered a given among those of us who knew him that he would steal any idea that wasn't nailed down - and a few that were. My favorite quote of his was "go ahead and sue me - my lawyers are better than yours."

There was a running gag that, if you saw him at a party, you should tell someone about a "new idea" that you had such that he thought he was overhearing something that might actually work. The bets would then be how long it took before a patent application was filed, taking claim for this unworkable or terminally flawed idea.

Having said all that, I must admit that he marketed the hell out of every idea he stole. The person from whom he stole the idea would likely have sat on it for years, preoccupied by coming up with other things, and it would never have been of use to the mainstream jumping public.

Once the idea was stolen, however, it was available to everyone in record time. Even the person who came up with the idea in the first place was able to buy the product (he would, of course, be sued if he tried to use the design without paying royalties).

This brings us to Skyride.

While the Pioneer of the Sport to whom I referred (actually a competitor to Pioneer, FWIW) generally kept his larceny within the sport (there are notable exceptions with which I am familiar), Skyride is equal opportunity. Strangely enough, up-jumpers are the least likely to get screwed by them.

One of the biggest problems in the sport today is that people who never would have considered jumping in the bad old days, and may well be constitutionally unsuited to skydiving in general, get their start in skydiving through Tandem.

If Skyride manages to leave a really bad taste in the mouths of 99 44/100% of the tandem passengers that show up, perhaps it will serve to weed out the people that are better off with another hobby.

In the same sense that it is better that people show up with the sure knowledge that they can die in a very immediate sense and then learn to control the risk, perhaps there is some advantage to having the first impression of the sport be that it is a bastion of lying thieves and then learn that this is but an aberration. Skyride sets the kind of baseline that makes everyone else look good by comparison.

Yeah, they make a lot of money. However, in the same sense that I'd rather be broke than to be as fucked-up as Michael Jackson in order to be rich, I would not take the income that comes with Skyride's bad karma.

But that's just me.

Animal lovers are big fans of cute, cuddly animals. Pandas, Bambis and what have you can have people up in arms when they are threatened.

OTOH, an ecologist can tell you that many of the less popular animals play equally important roles. Vultures, jackals, hyenas, maggots and other parasites and carrion eaters are critical to the ecological balance.

In addition, it may be noted that parasites are most attracted to a healthy host.

Thus, given that skydiving is an inherently Darwinian activity. Skyride may be seen as a natural outgrowth of the development of the sport (in the same sense that Polio is entirely natural).


Blue skies,

Winsor

[popsjumper 2]

Have you considered writing a book? Your delivery is awsome.
We all need the bad to provide some frame of reference to the good and the ugly, eh?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[CSpenceFLY 1]

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An ecologist can tell you that many of the less popular animals play equally important roles. Vultures, jackals, hyenas, maggots and other parasites and carrion eaters can be critical to the ecological balance.

Thats the most elegantly written PA I have ever seen.


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[marks 0]

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In addition, it may be noted that parasites are most attracted to a healthy host.

Thus, given that skydiving is an inherently Darwinian activity. Skyride may be seen as a natural outgrowth of the development of the sport (in the same sense that Polio is entirely natural).

yu wouldn't happen to be at mullins this halloween would you?. It has been a long time. Im thinking of making the trip. PM me...

what you wrote is awesome winsor, FANTASTIC!

• Quote

[tigershark 0]

Just an update to the marketing of skyride. Anyone who gets Maxim turn to page 149 of the November 2006 issue.
right under the picture of the skydiver 11 p.m.
"Atlanta, Ga
Does your junk look bigger when it's flopping in the wind? How 'bout when it's dark? Find out on a naked Full Moon Night jump. For 20 bucks ASC lets you strip down and fall, as long as there's enough light for landing. No tandem leaps allowed, perv. ascskydiving.com"

So the escape clause here is as long as there is enough light for landing. It is rare that there are enough people to fill a night jump load there. But website is out there and anyone who goes to it will only be steered towards skyride.
Damn you Maxim!!!!!! do your fucking research.

[bodypilot90 0]

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Have you considered writing a book? Your delivery is awsome.

We all need the bad to provide some frame of reference to the good and the ugly, eh?

and maybe the jump video from fandango

[popsjumper 2]

Well at least one bricks and mortar DZ is getting in on the act as set forth by Skyride.

In one particular state, doing an internet search on "Skydive XXX" (where XXX is the name of a city) brings in a result in the Sponsored Results section a link to a real DZ in another city far, far from the search city. Since there is a real DZ in the XXX city and a sponsored result sends you to a different city to a real DZ, I see this as an infringement on the XXX DZ's market.

To me, it's very similar to Skyride tactics except that the reference is to a real, bricks and mortar, DZ.

On the other hand, I am probably naive in thinking that skydiving used to be a community and has now turned into a dog-eat-dog business venture where any DZ can take business away from any other DZ and feel self-righteous about being marketing savy.

I sent an email to the offending DZ asking about this and got a reply from a lawyer saying, among other things, "...Often there is an overlap of market areas but that is the competitive nature of most industries which reach broad geographic areas..." and, "...There isn't any effective way to avoid our visibility in other market areas without sacrificing visibility we are specifically seeking..." which all tells me that they are specifically seeking the visibility in the other DZ's area to take their business and that their idea of overlap includes the entire state.

Call me naive and stupid but I just don't like the idea.

Am I way off base here?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Thanatos340 1]

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Am I way off base here?

I think so..

No one is selling Dropzone Franchises with exclusive rights to any area.

As Long as Business are competing Honestly, It is the American way.

What makes this different from Skyride is that Skyride uses web sites to intentionally deceive customers about who they are and where they are.

As long as both DZ`s are honest about where they are located, More power to them and may the best DZ win.

[skydived19006 4]

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Well at least one bricks and mortar DZ is getting in on the act as set forth by Skyride.

When you go the “offending DZ site”, is it obvious where they’re located? I use paid ads; they’re not all area specific. If you were in Lyons Georgia and searched for “skydive lyons”, you’d see my paid advertisement. Once you go to my web site, it would be very clear that I’m located in Wichita Kansas (DZ was formally located in Lyons Kansas).

If I get a call from way out of my area I’ll generally refer the customer to a closer DZ, I like to think that most DZs do this. Once in a while I’ll get a customer from Kansas City (200 miles away, and 3 or 4 DZs closer than mine), but they want to jump in Wichita for one reason or another, generally friends or family here.

I do not use a 1-800 phone number for multiple reasons.
One: the cost
Two: most people have cell phones and it doesn’t cost them to call long distance
Three: anyone in Kansas will know that a phone number with a 316 area code is in the Wichita area.

In a lot of ways, it’s hard to believe that there’s a DZ in this country that will still trade with Skyride. It’s incredibly short sided! You inevitably tarnish your own reputation, because 90% of your Skyride referrals will be upset about getting fucked (maybe they keep a tube of anal lube on the counter?), and see the DZO as a conspirator in the deception. I know of one KC area DZ that accepts Skyride certificates (to the best of my knowledge he still deals with Skyride). This guy is one of the most rule/law abiding DZOs in the business. It’s hard for me to understand how he can stand to have the constant taste of shit in his mouth.

I know from personal experience how it is accepting Skyride certificates, and dealing with the customers. I did it for 6 months a few years ago. In those 6 months, I accepted 30 certificates, and did around 250 tandems total for the year. I quit Skyride, stepped up my advertising a little, and did over 300 tandems the next year. The year after that we were up to 400 tandems. Pull your head out of your ass, do some advertising, clean up your web site, do some optimization, and tell Ben and Cary to go fornicate with each other!

Was I ranting?
Martin

Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else.

AC DZ

[Lindercles 0]

I suppose it depends on your definition of "honest" competition.

I don't know if it's the same DZ popsjumper is talking about, but I noticed one as well. There are two DZs near a city, one of them is called Skydive XXX (where XXX is the name of the city), one of them is called Skydive YYY.

If you type "Skydive XXX" into google (in other words specifically asking google to point you to Skydive XXX) the top result is a sponsored link titled "Skydiving XXX" (my bold, not theirs), but the link points you to the Skydive YYY website. Note, of course, that sponsored links are not like typical search results. They are advertisements that the company has paid google to pimp.

Does that seem like honest advertising, or intentional deception?