What can we do about Skyride?

[skydived19006 4]

Quote

I suppose it depends on your definition of "honest" competition.

I don't know if it's the same DZ popsjumper is talking about, but I noticed one as well. There are two DZs near a city, one of them is called Skydive XXX (where XXX is the name of the city), one of them is called Skydive YYY.

If you type "Skydive XXX" into google (in other words specifically asking google to point you to Skydive XXX) the top result is a sponsored link titled "Skydiving XXX" (my bold, not theirs), but the link points you to the Skydive YYY website. Note, of course, that sponsored links are not like typical search results. They are advertisements that the company has paid google to pimp.

Does that seem like honest advertising, or intention deception?

That may or may not be deceptive; I’d need to see the specific ads.

My DZ is Air Capital Drop Zone; we’re located 15 miles outside of Wichita Kansas. Until this season there was a drop zone called Skydive Wichita (they folded up their tent, and sold off the assets) located 40 miles from Wichita in Kingman Ks (very common, no problem). I had and still have paid advertisements for the terms “skydive wichita”, if someone in Wichita is searching for skydiving near Wichita, they should know that I’m there. There is currently a DZ in Kansas by the name of Skydive Kansas, I also have paid search ads for the term “skydive kansas”, as I’m in the skydiving business, and located in Kansas (you’ll also see Skydive Kansas come up as the number 1 natural result, with paid ad, and we’re both behind the Skyride site ads for that term). The header of virtually all of my paid ads is “Skydive Wichita Kansas.” I don’t think this is deceptive at all.

Martin

Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else.

AC DZ

[popsjumper 2]

So far, so good.

Now suppose that searching on "Skydive Wichita" also brought up a competing DZ on the other side of the state instead of just yours and Skyride's.

Now what do you think?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[skydived19006 4]

Quote

So far, so good.

Now suppose that searching on "Skydive Wichita" also brought up a competing DZ on the other side of the state instead of just yours and Skyride's.

Now what do you think?

I don't care as long as the "other DZ" isn't trying to confuse the customer with misleading web site, etc to make the customer think that they're looking at a competing DZ in/near Wichita.

Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else.

AC DZ

[Joellercoaster 6]

As long as the non-local DZ was obvious on its own website about where it really was, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

I suspect it'd be pretty hard to buy ad space with (for example) Google that was specific enough that you wouldn't show up in competition with a DZ on the other side of your state.

People aren't total sheep - there's a difference between lying to them and assuming they can read.

--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

[LloydDobbler 2]

Quote

As long as the non-local DZ was obvious on its own website about where it really was, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

I suspect it'd be pretty hard to buy ad space with (for example) Google that was specific enough that you wouldn't show up in competition with a DZ on the other side of your state.

People aren't total sheep - there's a difference between lying to them and assuming they can read.

Exactly. If I own a DZ in Boise, Idaho, and I bid up the phrase 'Skydive Maine' on Google AdWords...well, I might drive some people to my site, sure. But if they come to my site and find out from my 'contact us' page that I'm in Boise, I doubt it's going to help me much.

The distinction lies in the fact that most (if not all) of Skyride's websites are deceptive in nature by not including their actual address/location (for the most part, because they don't have an actual address/location). They talk about 'their dropzone,' etc, at skydiveXXXXX.com...as if they have a physical DZ at XXXXX location. They show (pirated) pictures, and they describe their nonexistent 'facilities'...but they never give an address.

But you already know all that, if you know anything about Skyride.

Distinction is, if someone's up-front about where they're located, then I have no problem with them advertising wherever/whenever they feel like it. It's the omission of that crucial info that makes Skyride less-than transparent...and more-than-deceptive.

Otherwise, pour your ad money into whatever distant ad you want to. Just realize that mileage may vary, as with all advertising.

Competition isn't a bad thing. Deceptive competition is.

[Mr17Hz 1]

provides ads to the highest bidder. If Skydive Alpha is on the East coast, and Skydive Beta is on the west coast, and Skydive Alpha decides to pay google to advertise their space using the keywords “Skydive Beta”; there is nothing unethical about that at all. If Skydive Alpha deceptively attempts to convince people who make it to their website that they’re located on the West cost… then there is an ethical problem with that. When it comes down to it, it is more valuable for Skydive Alpha to use the keywords Skydive Alpha; all they need to do is choose to pay a little more money per click.

Here is something to consider. Google is a very smart company; they want to provide their customers with the best results and success. While they don’t advertise or guarantee it; they’re actually not randomly showing your ads, they’re showing ads to people they think will click on them. If you use the same computer regularly there is a 85% chance they know where you live down to at least the zipcode… and that means that you’re more likely to be interested in an ad that pushes something in your area. Ads are not displayed randomly; they are displayed in a way that Google’s algorithms suspect they will provide the highest hit rate. This works both ways… if google is not able to identify who you are and what you would be interested in, they’re not going to “waste” ads on you when they know they can get a higher hit rate with a known demographic.

To give you an idea of this in action; I just did a search on google for “Skydive”. The paid advertisement at the top of the page was for www.SkydiveMidwest.com, they claim on their ad “Closest to Chicago”. I am from Chicago but I did not type Chicago or Illinois or anything in the subject that would indicate that I am from Chicago… Coincidence? Next, I logged into one of the co-hosted web servers that I maintain which is located at a secured data center in New York City and I did the same search for “Skydive”. The resulting paid at was for “Skydiving Lessons” at www.nepaSkydiving.com – “World Class Tandem Skydiving, Skydiving lessons for PA, NJ & NY”. It is worth mentioning that I NEVER use this cohosted server to browse the web. Asside from service updates, this may have been the first time… but Google must already know where I’m from!

Advertising on the web is not as cut and dry as you may initially think.

I live around Chicago where there is a six flags great America theme park about an hour away from me. I often pick up those freebee ad magazines they give away outside of restraunts… the ones with real estate for sale, or cars for sale, or restaurants in the area. These are distributed only in the chicago-land area. One I was looking at today over dinner had an advertisement for Disney world. I didn’t see any advertisements for Six Flags great America in that magazine, and yet Disney world is a thousand miles away! Is it unethical for Disney world to advertise in Chicago for their services? Of course not. Does Six flags have the opportunity to also place an add in that same magazine? Sure.

There are two casinos within an hour of where I live, one is an hour north, and one is an hour south. Right outside of the south casino is a giant advertisement for the north one… and right outside of the north one is a giant advertisement for the south one. Is this unethical? Of course not.

In summary; there is nothing wrong with advertising YOUR SERVICES in ANY region that you feel it would be valuable; however there is a problem with deceptive advertising... deceptive advertising relates to the contect of the ad, not the location of it.

Matt Christenson

[email protected]
http://www.RealDropzone.com - A new breed of dropzone manifest software.

[ripcords 0]

Check out this article that mentions skyrides in the Chicago tribune
http://www.suntimes.com/news/zimmermann/134169,CST-NWS-fixer13.article

[popsjumper 2]

Thanks for the input on how search engines work.

Quote

If Skydive Alpha deceptively attempts to convince people who make it to their website that they’re located on the West cost… then there is an ethical problem with that.

And therin lies the crux of the matter with skyride and others who advertise that they are located in your area when in fact they are not. The simple words that pop up saying "Skydive XXX" indicate that the DZ is IN that city when it is really in another one. Deceptive in my book.

PS: Please tell me that Disney World ad did not say that it was in your city when in fact it is 1000 miles away from you.

I don't see anywhere that anyone has protested anybody advertising in any particular place...magazine, newspaper, billboard, internet or elswhere. That has not been the point. Sorry you got side-traacked on that.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Mr17Hz 1]

Quote

Thanks for the input on how search engines work.

Quote

If Skydive Alpha deceptively attempts to convince people who make it to their website that they’re located on the West cost… then there is an ethical problem with that.

And therin lies the crux of the matter with skyride and others who advertise that they are located in your area when in fact they are not. The simple words that pop up saying "Skydive XXX" indicate that the DZ is IN that city when it is really in another one. Deceptive in my book.

PS: Please tell me that Disney World ad did not say that it was in your city when in fact it is 1000 miles away from you.

I don't see anywhere that anyone has protested anybody advertising in any particular place...magazine, newspaper, billboard, internet or elswhere. That has not been the point. Sorry you got side-traacked on that.

Let me clerify what I was trying to get at regaurding the disney work reference.

Lets say that two companies called "EastCoastSkydiving" and "WestCoastSkydiving" both exist in their indicated regions.

I am saying that I do not in any way consider it to be unethical that "WestCoastSkydiving" uses the keyword "EastCoastSkydiving" when purchasing Ad space on google; as long as the content on www.WestCostSkydiving.com, and the search summary displayed to google users in no way implies that they are located on the east coast or is in any way affiliated with EastCoastSkydiving... The keywords that you choose represent the "space" where you decide to advertise.

Above someone mentioned that "I searched for EastCoastSkydiving and got results for "WestCoastSkydiving". That is perfectly reasonable and fair as long as WestCoastSkydiving makes no effort to deceive users into thinking that it is located on the WestCoast or that it is any way affiliated with WestCoastSkydiving.

I do, however, feel that it would be unethical for WestCoastSkydiving to register a domain name called www.EastCoastSkydiving.com. Currently, unless EastCoastSkydiving actually trademarked their name nationally; this is a perfeclty legal practice. (there is an implied local trademark just by doing business in a local region - but only in the region your'e doing business - that does not include online advertising) . However even though this is legal - my personal opinion is that it is unethical and shitty business practice. A good lawyer may be able to declare it as illeagal through "deceptive advertisement laws" - but I am not a lawyer; all I know as that as far as trademarks are concerned - it would be legal (but unethical).

Matt Christenson

[email protected]
http://www.RealDropzone.com - A new breed of dropzone manifest software.

[popsjumper 2]

Thanks, Matt...I see what you are saying...it's just that I'm a little more picky than you about what's "ethical" and what's "legal". Maybe that's why I'm not rich and driving a Lambourghini.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[fmmobley 0]

I just noticed that Skyride businesses are rated quite high on www.kudzu.com.

If you know people who have used them please encourage them to log on to www.kudzu.com and post a rating.

... Marion

[CSpenceFLY 1]

I bet if you could look at the IP of all those reviews they would be the same.


I take that back.Out of 5 there appears to be one real person.

[CSpenceFLY 1]

I also checked the reviews for Skydive Georgia,another company that does not exist.Three of the four reviews were written on the same day by people with only one post.Hmmmmmm.To the person that works for Skyride that told me last summer things were changing around there,Hmmmm.The only thing changing are the faces when the people get tired of working for a place like that.And before anyone gets on to tell me what a great place ASC is,thats not what I'm talking about.I'm talking about Skyride.

http://www.kudzu.com/merchantReviewsList.do?An=0&searchVal=skydive+georgia&searchType=keyword&A=807393&Au=P_CompanyID&merchantId=807393

[chutingstar 1]

I contacted Kudzu about these listings about 6 months ago...and they said they would look into eliminating the duplicate business listings under different names...but nothing has been done as of yet.

Mike

ChutingStar.com

[beezyshaw 0]

I think I'm going to call "The Skydiving Team" or "Life Thrills" because they can actually offer me Olympic Skydiving

The people in the FAI have been working on this for 20 years, and all they really needed to do to get skydiving in the games was call Skyride.

[livendive 8]

77 pages into this thread, I'm just wondering what the latest news is with the skyride scam, lawsuit stuff, etc. Anyone know? Also, am I correct that skydiving.com is just another front for skycamride?

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[llkenziell 0]

What exactly is Skyride? Sorry if this is explained somewhere

"Living like fallen angels who lost their halos" - Unknown Prophets

-Love Life-

[CSpenceFLY 1]

They are a nation wide marketing company owned by the same guys that own Atlanta Skydiving Center in Cedartown,Ga.They sell gift certificates for tandems,have fake websites for dropzones that do not exist to confuse the customers,steal phone numbers from dead DZOs,and many times send people on cross country goose chases to use the certificates because no one will take them in the area that they are sold.Thats about it in a nut shell.
Oh I forgot steal photos to use on their websites and copy complete websites to further confuse the customers.There just a great group of folks.A real asses,I mean asset to the skydiving community.

[llkenziell 0]

I can see why ya'll would be angry over that.

Unfortunately there are people like that in this world =/

"Living like fallen angels who lost their halos" - Unknown Prophets

-Love Life-

[jraf 0]

Yep, people get alll emotional about skyride. I have a somewhat different look at that:

I don't won a DZ. The PIA (Parachute Industry Association) is well organized. Why don't you let them take care of their own problems. To active skydivers Skyride is just a curiosity, why get all bent out of shape about an internal PIA problem?

jraf

Me Jungleman! Me have large Babalui.
Muff #3275

[skydived19006 4]

The short answer is that if it weren't for DZOs you wouldn't be a skydiver, no DZs no skydivers. What affects the DZOs indirectly affects the skydiver.

I could go on, but it's not worth the time, if you want more of the same just read back through this thread. Also get back to me when you have a few jumps and you've been around for 10 years.

Quote

Yep, people get alll emotional about skyride. I have a somewhat different look at that:

I don't won a DZ. The PIA (Parachute Industry Association) is well organized. Why don't you let them take care of their own problems. To active skydivers Skyride is just a curiosity, why get all bent out of shape about an internal PIA problem?

Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else.

AC DZ

[jraf 0]

When it comes to DZs it is demand that regulates where and when they come to existance. If there are enough skydivers in a place, there will be a DZ. If there are enough potential tandem passangers there will be a DZ.

Since so much is said...please tell me which DZs in particular did Skyride put out of business. Not that I care about Skyride one way or the other..., and your DZ is your business, so cry me a river with your 10 years and more jumps

jraf

Me Jungleman! Me have large Babalui.
Muff #3275

[skydived19006 4]

Quote

and your DZ is your business, so cry me a river with your 10 years and more jumps

It's always fun to see what those with no perspective have to say, how uninformed it is, and how impressed they are with thier own "knowledge". The 10 year thing is about perspective. You are right about one thing, my DZ is my business, both figuratively and literally.

One thing that is often overlooked is that if it weren't for DZOs cooperating with Skyride it wouldn't be an issue at all. Those DZs who accept the Skyride certificates are no better than Ben and Cary. It would be similar to hanging out in titty bars, and complain about how immoral the dancers are for doing what they're doing. Their no better/worse than the guys stuffing dollars down their G-strings.

God love those girls!

Martin

Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else.

AC DZ

[kallend 1,623]

Quote

When it comes to DZs it is demand that regulates where and when they come to existance. If there are enough skydivers in a place, there will be a DZ. If there are enough potential tandem passangers there will be a DZ.

Since so much is said...please tell me which DZs in particular did Skyride put out of business. Not that I care about Skyride one way or the other..., and your DZ is your business, so cry me a river with your 10 years and more jumps

So you condone deceptive advertizing, theft, fraud and copyright infringement?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[BillyVance 34]

Quote

Since so much is said...please tell me which DZs in particular did Skyride put out of business. Not that I care about Skyride one way or the other..., and your DZ is your business, so cry me a river with your 10 years and more jumps

I can tell you one DZO that was forced to sell. Skyride took so much of the DZ's tandem and student business through deceptive advertising and phone lies, that the DZO tried to sell her money-losing DZ, but after a while the only people who would buy it was the Skyride people, who bought it.

Skyride can go to hell. Or more specifically, the two men who run it, can go to hell.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban