skycat 0 #51 October 22, 2003 Quote Is Derek unhappy on his home DZ or any DZ? We don't have a home DZ, he is pretty much unhappy at any DZ. We walk on a DZ, he sees everything that they are doing that breaks BSRs and FARs, and is pretty much in a pissed mood after that. Only places where he wasn't like that was Eloy and Perris, and that is only cause they are so big that if they are doing something wrong he can't see it. Since I don't have the money to fly us places to go jump where he might be happy, it's just easier to not jump.Fly it like you stole it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scottjaco 0 #52 October 22, 2003 I'm glad we have skygods.....opps I mean experts like you on this website to set us 100 jump wonders straight! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #53 October 22, 2003 Quote Some people quit jumping when it finally dawns on them that they're a crater awaiting grid coordinates. Sometimse this involves getting hurt, sometimes it is a matter of a freebie close call. Agreed. I've thought about it after these - and conclude that the more I learn, the safer I get. Watching people with a couple 100 jumps routinely smashing themselves makes me feel athletic and spritely. I could race many to bording point and win! So I stay. QuoteSome people quit the moment they see their first fatality. All the bullshit about skydiving vs. driving to the airport evaporates at that moment, and they are never seen at a DZ again. Agreed. I did think it was sad, and still get sad when I see one - and think what we do is quite pointless and very dangerous - but it defines me - so I'll be on the next load. QuoteSome people have kids and don't feel that voluntarily adding the very real risk of the sport is worth it to them. Agreed. But I had kids and carried on because this is MY LIFE and not theirs. Besides, a bitter resentful father is not what any child needs growing up. A dude who will take you for Tandems is much cooler! QuoteSome people either do it for a living or jump competitively, such that skydiving becomes synonymous with work. I know world champions who didn't feel like going for it again, and couldn't get back into the mode where it was simply for fun, and now do other things. Agreed. I only competed because I was good at my chosen disipline. After a few years, I really didn't like it, so I stopped it completely. I do teach, and it is a job because I'm paid to do it. I love it. I also suck at new stuff, like freefly and birdman, and I'll never perfect a swoop, as any swooper will know, so I keep going, and keep learning. QuoteSome people get burned out on spending all their time at the DZ, and are leery of taking a moderate approach to something so intense. Well, I've heard of that - but I've not missed a calender month since April 1987 after breaking my femur. I really like it, so I'm not burned out yet, I guess QuoteSome people have a life that involves going to the DZ with a significant other, and when the relationship goes to hell they stop going to the DZ. Yup. I've seen them come and I've seen them go. QuoteSome people are simply not cut out for this sport as a matter of temperament, and eventually conclude that they aren't having fun. This sport isn't for everybody. So true. Accidental skydivers... QuoteI've heard more reasons, but these come to mind. That pretty much covers it... I'm having the time of my life though, and have been since I was 22. (I'm now 41) I can't imagine what I'd do if I were to stop. Curl up and wait to die, I guess. Time will tell, but I'm identifying with Lew Sanborn and Chett Poland more than I ever did with Rob Harris or Tom Piras. My Dad is 72 - and has competed in a 75 mile Cycle race every year for the last 23 years. Before that he ran marathons. I can see myself on the DZ WAY past that age, doing maybe 2 or 3 dives a weekend, 2 weekends a month - unless I can find a sponsor! tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scottjaco 0 #54 October 22, 2003 That sucks that Sundays are dead at these backward dropzones in the middle of bumfuck nowhere. What is the deal with these dropzones? What type of plane do they fly out there? Is it at least a turbine? I'm spoiled rotten, I was just at Skydive San Diego on a Saturday, I wasn't used to being at such a tame facility, I now can picture what you mean! Come to Perris on a Sunday.....it's a little different...... here at a real dropzone. You can actually do more than 2 loads in less then 4 hours......I'm serious!!! Good Luck! scott Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #55 October 22, 2003 QuoteI'm glad we have skygods.....opps I mean experts like you on this website to set us 100 jump wonders straight! Sorry, thought you were joking. I thought you were making a joke when telling the 65-jump person all about belly-flying (that you say you don't do). A little satire. I always tease the freefliers, but they know I'm just kidding. Experienced freefliers and experienced belly-fliers generally don't call each others discipline boring unless it is good-natured taunting. But since you mentioned it... I am referred to as Mr. Expert. Don't worry, I used to do head down all the time before I got stable. You'll figure it out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VanillaSkyGirl 6 #56 October 22, 2003 QuoteTrust me, you will get very sick of being belly to earth. That is, unless you are interested in RW. Tracking, 360's and back/front loops get very old. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Too funny. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ If I want to relax, I go into a sit fly position because the view is a lot better, you can see the horizon better. When you are belly to earth, all you see is the ground, ------------------------------------------------------------------------ LMAO Thanks for the chuckles. Hi Scott! No disrespect to you, as I only have 102 jumps myself, but I also was LMAO when I first read your post. In order to comment on belly flying, you should try some. At 65 jumps, I am sure that "jumper03" is trying to nail various exits and turn various points with others, not just doing "front/back loops and 360s"(that was AFF 6, I think). I am so biased, but I think that RW can be so beautiful and challenging on so many levels. Little details need to be perfect in order to make the skydive work well and a well-executed RW exit can take your breath away! You work as a team, and you eyes are glued (most of the time) on the eyes of the person across from you. Flying so closely to others while performing different maneuvers is amazing. It can also be so much fun if they smile or make silly faces at you! (A partner once read my lips as I yelled out, "Oh shit!" LOL!) Also, you have not flown in the mantis position, yet, because there is no way that you can be in the mantis and be looking at the ground! Your head and upper body are up high. See THIS link, under "Body position". Yet, even in boxman, why would you be looking down? If one is bored by a skydive, it is usually either because the skydive was too difficult for the person at the person's current level (and the person gave up) or because the skydive is too easy for the person (and, therefore, not challenging =boring). Believe it or not, (please, no disrespect to the FFs) freeflying seems boring to me (I know, I know...I'm weird! LOL!), but I will never close my mind to or rule out freeflying. It looks like it can also be so beautiful and challenging in a different way. Anyway, as you know, all my original close skydiving friends freefly, but it wasn't for me. I just love the challenge and goal-setting excitement that I feel with RW. Everyone is excited by different disciplines, but they are all challenging, for sure. People should just pursue what personally turns them on in this sport. Btw, I love the beauty (and nice winds) of Otay (Skydive San Diego), but it is certainly a little slower than Perris or Elsinore. I enjoy all 3 DZs, but all for different reasons. Edited: typos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
softnotes 0 #57 October 22, 2003 I think there is a different reason for every person. I left for about 8 years, and for no reason I can remember. I suppose making money became just a bit too important or some other lame reason. Fortunately, last year, my wife pointed out that I had stopped going to the DZ even though I was still skydiving at heart. She picked the colours for a new rig and regularly comes to the DZ with me to enjoy the outdoors.Blue Skies SoftNotes "That's not flying.... that's falling with style!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StevePhelps 0 #58 October 22, 2003 Why do people quit? Hmmmm, I dunno. I've seen them quit because of injuries a lot. Family? Sadly, more often than not skydiving wins over family. IF I ever quit, most likely it will be injuries or the simple fact I'm so goal orientated and have run out goals. (that will be a while) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumper03 0 #59 October 22, 2003 QuoteHi Scott! No disrespect to you, as I only have 102 jumps myself, but I also was LMAO when I first read your post. In order to comment on belly flying, you should try some. At 65 jumps, I am sure that "jumper03" is trying to nail various exits and turn various points with others, not just doing "front/back loops and 360s"(that was AFF 6, I think). We definitely need to jump sometime Rosa!!! I want to fly RW like Airspeed, GK, Majik, etc. The more I do RW, the more I realize there is to learn. Little nuances like a little more knee, or a hand position, an extra 'kick' out the door - turning points out in the sky with others is what is driving me to jump my butt off But my original point still stands - if you get bored with a jump then I think you aren't respecting exactly what it is you are doing and the danger it entails. And that is a recipe for disaster. JumpScars remind us that the past is real Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
usedtajump 1 #60 October 22, 2003 QuoteThe last time I jumped was in July and I haven't been back since due to lack of funds and self confidence. I got stuck on a level because of stability issues and I never handled failure very well.. I was determined to finish AFF this season but I was in for a wake-up call and that kept me away from the sport, however I can't stop thinking about it and I can't bear the thought of not going to the DZ again... I hope that some day I can return with some tunnel time behind me and really achieve something... Hell, keep at it. We had a student that it took about 23 jumps to complete AFF training. He went on to be a well respected DZO in Texas and a board member with USPA. The older I get the less I care who I piss off. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #61 October 22, 2003 QuoteThat sucks that Sundays are dead at these backward dropzones in the middle of bumfuck nowhere. What is the deal with these dropzones? These backward DZs are where most of the skydivers in the world jump at. Try and be a little opened minded. And the deal with these DZs, who knows! maybe they dont want to be a big un-personnal DZ (not saying your DZ is, I've never been), maybe they dont have the population bassin to have 5 Twin Otters. QuoteWhat type of plane do they fly out there? Is it at least a turbine? Yeah... at least a turbine... otherwhise its not worth it, right? QuoteI'm spoiled rotten, ROTFLMAO Quote I was just at Skydive San Diego on a Saturday, I wasn't used to being at such a tame facility, I now can picture what you mean! You should try and spend a couple of years at a small 1 Cessna DZ. Maybe then you'd stop assuming waht jumping at a small DZ is like. By the way, hows your spotting? QuoteCome to Perris on a Sunday.....it's a little different...... here at a real dropzone. That would be funny if you had been there, done that, got the freakin T-shirt, but you havent, and that makes statements like that pretty much insulting to a lot of people. I have thick skin and I dont work at a DZ, so its pretty much water off my back, but come on.... By the way, some people rather jump elswhere then Perris. How crazy of them. Quote You can actually do more than 2 loads in less then 4 hours......I'm serious!!! No way! Impossible!Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
usedtajump 1 #62 October 22, 2003 QuoteI think I said "trust me you'll get sick of being belly to earth....unless you are doing RW" No disrespect to belly flyers..... RW is cool too, although I have yet to try it..... What is all this bitching about politics at the DZ? I really don't get it. I see more politics on this Website than I do at Perris or any other dropzone is Southern California. I would be very interested to hear what your concerns are, what are people fighting over? I said this once before....I'm there to jump....the friends and beer are a bonus but that is not the sole reason I jump. scott Another example of someone becoming one of those people that will eventually be the straw that breaks the camel's back for a skydiver tetering on the brink of "just hating this fucking sport".The older I get the less I care who I piss off. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weegegirl 2 #63 October 22, 2003 Wow. This post really surprises me. I had no idea some of these people were no longer "in the sport." I just assumed that most people who were posting on dz.com were either in the sport currently or in the process of "getting into the sport." I'm sad for those who have stepped back from it. It's been a really tough year this year - way too much carnage. After losing a close friend at the WFFC this year, I stopped to think for a few days. Then I realized that if I was to leave the sport, I would be leaving behind the single thing in life that has brought me unconditional happiness. Skydiving is my life. It is my family, my social circle, my playground, my dreams, and my inspiration for everything else that I do in life. Fly. Be free. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vallerina 2 #64 October 22, 2003 OMG! I agree with Remi! I think this was my favorite part: QuoteCome to Perris on a Sunday.....it's a little different...... here at a real dropzone. Shit! What have I been doing? All but 15 of my jumps have been somewhere other than Perris! Seriously, it's the competition like that that gets really really annoying. What's even more annoying is that you won't catch more experienced jumpers at Perris saying that, and they'll even jump elsewhere! If the smaller dropzones I've jumped at aren't real, should I have logged those jumps? Were those jumps also not real? Actually, if those dzs aren't real, that means the stuff that I did when I was really really drunk wasn't real either! Yes! As for myself, I've slowed down this year. I made 300 last year (when I had no money of my own) to about 100 this year (when I do have money.) There have been many reasons for that (my home dz closing, trying to save money, some of the excitement is gone, people's egos get annoying, etc.) I still love the sport, but I just realize that going out and doing 8 jumps in a weekend gives me as much satisfaction as doing 16. Plus, I save big money!There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflybella 0 #65 October 22, 2003 I get what you're saying about the 'boredom' of just jumping from a plane. There is a certain amount of complacency associated with boredom. Maybe that's not the best word to describe it - "ready for more", "got it down-build on it" - those might be more appropriate. You're absolutely right, one certainly shouldn't lose respect for the dangers/thrill of just jumping out of a plane. Unfortunately those people find themselves "out of the sport" whether they chose to be or not! (articulate is sometimes hard without typing 400 word posts and looking like a preaching egomaniac ) Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rainbo 0 #66 October 22, 2003 Yeah, we're out there. I've been at it for 23 years. And there are a lot of people I know who have been around longer. Thing is that no matter what you do you learn more aboutg life. Eventually you realize there is more to life than the DZ. I have jumped every single year that I have been in the sport. Some more some less. Over those years my life has changed, and my priorities with it. Children came along, they need time, but they also love coming to the DZ with me. It's great that our DZ has activities for them and the whole family. I have lots of old friends that have retired that I still spend great time with (mostly we blow airports up for airshows). Throughout all the changes in my life though, one thing remains constant... I love to skydive. I am trying out more freeflying these days but still am a RW nut. I love the look on the faces of novices after a skydive new skill is realized, as well as the look on my old buddies faces after a kick ass funnel... If the time comes to quit it is because that is what your life is about...it is not something to fear, not something to be sad about, you don't loose the friendships, trust me. It is just where your life is taking you...so sit back and enjoy... RainboRainbo TheSpeedTriple - Speed is everything "Blessed are those who can give without remembering, and take without forgetting." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #67 October 22, 2003 QuoteThat sucks that Sundays are dead at these backward dropzones in the middle of bumfuck nowhere. What is the deal with these dropzones? Come to Perris on a Sunday.....it's a little different...... here at a real dropzone. You can actually do more than 2 loads in less then 4 hours......I'm serious!!! With all due respect, you'd have a much better outlook on us backward bumfuck NOT real dropzones if you actually got some attitude out of your "I jump at Perris Valley" head. You are letting the opinions of a few people form your own opinion about the skydiving scene in a part of the country you know nothing about. I know the DZs and the conditions Kelli speaks of and while she's allowed to have her views on the jumping here in this state, they aren't neary as backwards or as bumfucked as you claim they are. But then what do I know, those freefly jumps I did with Matt (1300+ jumps and arguably the best freeflier in the state), Jason (1900+ jumps with some awesome freefly talent) and Dave (a 2400+ jump extremely talented skydiver) just don't mean as much because I did them at a backwards bumfuck DZ (where it is possible if you're motivated and have enough daylight to make 6-10 jumps per day with a single rig and your own pack jobs). Back on topic ... People like Derek and Kelli are quiting (or taking a break) because they are burnt out. It happens ... I'm not Derek so I don't know why he feels the way he does. I respect him, and do think he and Kelli are doing the right thing by going to play in Colorado's mountains instead of being at the DZ. Because after all, there is life outside of skydiving. But some of us are still HIGH on this sport, and the less negative energy we have to deal with, the better off we'll be. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycat 0 #68 October 22, 2003 OK, now take a deep breath....now how about another one. Count to 10 well maybe 20. I never said they were backwards here, just that there aren't alot of fun jumpers on Sundays and lately the Saturdays that I've snuck out were pretty much students only. The student business on the other hand is kicking butt for pretty much all the DZs. I just have certain goals when it comes to skydiving and they can't be met here. Then to top it off the only day I can jump is Sunday, which you have to admit is the slower of the 2 weekend days. But hey, I haven't been around, I don't really know how it is. Silly me. btw...I was going to explain to Scott that this is a 3 turbine DZ state, but you proved my point of the attitudes I seem to get at the DZs I go to around here.Fly it like you stole it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #69 October 22, 2003 QuotePeople like Derek and Kelli are quiting (or taking a break) because they are burnt out. I'm not burned out, I still love jumping, but I'm not willing to wade through all the crap to do it. The second to last time I went to a DZ, the sun had gone down behind the mountains and there was AFF on the load. I had to fly around the student to land. I even had manifest ask me if I was OK making the jump after dark. I am not willing to 'look the other way' and speaking up and saying "thius isn't right" simply gets me alienaited from the DZ. Look what happened to packing Cathy.... Derek Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #70 October 22, 2003 QuoteI never said they were backwards here Yes I know you didn't say 'backwards', Scott did. Quotejust that there aren't alot of fun jumpers on Sundays and lately the Saturdays that I've snuck out were pretty much students only. The student business on the other hand is kicking butt for pretty much all the DZs. Historically I have had better Sundays, but that's likely just because the friends I jump with tend to jump more on Sundays rather than Saturdays. But you never know what a day will be like until you're there. QuoteI just have certain goals when it comes to skydiving and they can't be met here. But hey, I haven't been around, I don't really know how it is. Silly me. I understand you. We are small fish compared to some other places ... but small fish can still swim. Even though I haven't spent much time at SDTR, I get the impression that there aren't that many experienced people to jump with there (who aren't working at the DZ). Mile-Hi can be clicky (I'm only starting to break in with the bad ass freefliers there) and Brush is always an unknown as to who will be there and who won't (keep in mind the bad ass freefliers from Mile-Hi also jump at Brush). And unfortunately Calhan is currently nothing more than a Cessna DZ and the more experienced people go somewhere else. I can think of a number of people you could do 4-ways with (people like Paul and Melaby come to mind). But they haven't been jumping that much lately as well. As a freeflier, I jump with many different people (some jumps are better than others), but good 4-way teams are harder to come by around here. Quotebut you proved my point of the attitudes I seem to get at the DZs I go to around here. You're confusing me here Kelli as I really don't know what attitude you are referring to. I know the jumping scene isn't nearly as hip (if that's a good anology) here as it is in other parts of the country. But it's not all that bad either. There is talent in this state (especially some of the people who participate in skydiving and base jumping). Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #71 October 22, 2003 QuoteSeriously, it's the competition like that that gets really really annoying. In Florida, there used to be 2 DZs right next to each other. There was a lot of animosity between the owners. Lots of reasons. However, there was a bar in town called "Heads" that a skydiver ran. Dave Rickerby painted a mural on the wall. It is now a biker bar, but part of the painting is still there and skydivers are welcome. This bar was a one-sport sports bar. Skydivers from both DZs went there to socialize and watch videos. There was tension at the DZ business level, but not the skydivers. Eventually, people moved, stuff changed. Now, I think that there is a different vibe. The major DZs put on events and use those as the draw. On dz.com this week, you can read where people traveled from 1 dz to another to watch nationals or to visit with friends. This is definitely the way it should be. I rarely hear negativity anymore. People understand that different dzs have different strengths. Formations, freeflying, training, social, events... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vallerina 2 #72 October 22, 2003 QuoteThere was tension at the DZ business level, but not the skydivers. I don't mind tension/competition between owners because that's natural. Everybody has their own little way to advertise better than their neighbor, and I'm all for that. Healthy competition isn't so bad. I get so sick of "My dz/canopy/container/jumpsuit/etc is better than yours." I don't mind, "I like my dz/canopy/container/jumpsuit/etc the best because of (insert some basis for opinion here.)"There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deuce 1 #73 October 22, 2003 Two weeks ago, I made three jumps and went home. No vibe. I could see quitting for that reason. I charge hard at RW, FF and Camera. My wingsuit comes in a couple weeks. That helps me to have fun every weekend, cause I can usually play with the group that's having the most fun. I'll quit when it isn't fun anymore, when there aren't enough smiles and laughter in it. I thought seriously about quitting when my friend Sandi got smashed by a dust devil. JP (diablopilot) and Keith Wyatt were in the perfect place at the perfect time to put things into perspective for me. As for drama, I simply don't play. I am Dramaphobic as hell. And I'm older, and I'm not single. I think an awful lot of drama comes from the hook-ups and break ups. I think having DZ friends that you do non-skydiving stuff with helps with perspective, too. I golfed (really really badly) with three buddies from the DZ yesterday. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scottjaco 0 #74 October 22, 2003 What does LMAO mean? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,122 #75 October 22, 2003 laughing my ass off Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
