Leaving the sport

[Tonto 1]

Quote

Now I'm not a spokesman for Perris...I'm just trying to let you know I love you all!! .......even though people from Perris get called Parasites when they visit other dropzones...It's OK, spread the love!

Reading this post, an image sprang to mind of an inexperienced jumper on a wing too hot for him who overconfidently cranked a low turn and is now digging deep on those brakes to get out of the corner.

Mmm. Human mind. Strangest thing...

They're not called Parasites - they're called Perrisites. See? It's a play on words...

I have over 2000 dives from Cessna's, and more dives at Perris than you have total.

My jaw also dropped when I first arrived there from South Africa. It was like a year round boogie every day with 2 Otters and a King Air and a DC-3 on call (Which we flew to Cal City for an away weekend) They still had a Cessna 206 in those days, and when is was wet and windy, 2 friends and I still got to jump even though no one else was keen.

I did my AFF certification there, as well as some of the best dives I'd ever done, even though I was a newbie with only 1000 dives. I was pied for that dive at Perris and thrown in the pool.

I was also there when 16 dead people were taken out of the Otter after the crash in April 1992. Everythings bigger at Perris.

I've also jumped and worked at Cessna DZ's in Kansas and Oklahoma, did a season of Tandem out of a 206 over Provo in the British West Indies, Carribean, jumped a Tubine DC 3 over the Skeleton Coast in Namibia, demo'd from Jet Rangers into 70 000 capacity stadiums, Done AFF from Antinov's and C-130's, jumped the jet at WFFC, done Tandems over Victoria Falls, Zimbabwe and CReW and canopy swoops onto a 50ft Sandbar with 100sq ft canopies off the coast of Maputo, among other highpoints and many, many mundane skydives.

I recall a ride to altitude a little more than a decade ago. Five 182's in formation on a long ride to 10500ft. Looking at those kites from the outside, sunlight reflecting off the lakes in the late afternoon, I realised where I would be without Mr Cessna's idea. Sure, I've jumped a Piper Cherokee 6 and a couple of other small aircraft, but over 2000 dives have been from Cessna's. The dive was only a 16 way, only a single point, and we lost 500 ft on the climbout, but the imagery which remains... It's beyond description.

The amazing thing about having jumped all over the world, from 1 Cessna DZ's, to Perris, DeLand, the WFFC, and the World Meet is that the air and the people on the dive, and on the ground define the sport. If the world was swept clean of Turbines my life would change (I jump at a weekend only Turbine dropzone) very little. I now do 10 dives Sat, and 4 Sun. If we were back to Cessna's, it would be 7 Sat and 7 Sun. That's it.

You've taken flack on this thread because your comments were deemed thoughless and inconsiderate. You've found a DZ where you're the only person directed to the outhouse and its 30lb of dogshit and where the loads take off without you.
I'm sure you'll find more like that with your present attitude. But. (There's always a but..) You're young in the sport. I'm guessing that you'll either quit skydiving because the outhouse has no aircon and single ply TP, or you'll discover what it is you really love about skydiving.

The aircraft is inconsequencial, and the skydive is free. We pay only for the plane ride.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[Amazon 7]

Tonto.. ......now that just freakin rocks....well put

I would love to share the sky with you sometime.

Jeanne

[wmw999 2,121]

Yup. "instructional" posts often belong in PMs. I'm really really glad Tonto's was not.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[freeflybella 0]

hell-ooooo?

Crosskeys has a 182, 3 caravans, a porter, a super otter and skyvan, a biplane AND a helicopter. Plus some VERY champion skydivers AND Square 3 gear store.

And we're in frickin' New Jersey!

(and we're not the 'stix' - Philly is 15 minutes away)

Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

[Ron 7]

Quote

What makes it world class? People come from all over the world just to jump at Perris. They are constantly turning loads on at least 2 otters on weekdays. I know not always but you get the idea.....

I have been out to Perris several times...And on 3 occasions there were not enough people to fly..So I sat on the ground.

I guess that makes Perris a "Backwards DZ" Huh?

You only went out to that other DZ once and called it "backwards" I sat at Perris 3 different times. Still I didn't cry about it. Its called skydiving. Not everything should be handed to you on a silver platter.


And I bet you will be scared shitless the first time you have to bale out at 3 grand with an engine out....Otter babies always do.

You have so much to learn, yet you act like a skygod now at 100 jumps. Thats why you are getting flack.

Dissing a DZ since it does not have "Proper" bathrooms....What a cry baby!

DZ's in the "stix" as you say make more skydivers, and skydives than Perris ever will.

You are the reason that people quit. Big ego, with very little skill but you scream the loudest, and cry at everything that does not go your way.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[skydivejersey 0]

Quote

The aircraft is inconsequencial, and the skydive is free. We pay only for the plane ride.

Actually its the other way round which is why you dont need a commercial license to fly skydivers and your not taxed as a passenger. Its also why you don't loose a jump ticket if your plane lands cos the weather was too shit to jump...

[skybytch 259]

Quote

Actually its the other way round which is why you dont need a commercial license to fly skydivers

Every dz I've jumped at has said a commercial license was required to fly jumpers.

Quote

Its also why you don't loose a jump ticket if your plane lands cos the weather was too shit to jump...

Again, at every dz I've jumped at if the plane takes off and you're on it, your ticket is gone.

[jumpwally 0]

Great comments Tonto and Ron.I feel embarrassed for you Scott,,,,you remind me of the guy with piss stained pants with an open zipper,standing in front of the room complaining ,,,,about what ,you don't even know! Look in the mirror,its really silly your comments about everything and so little experience to boot...lurk and learn and jump some more...geez

smile, be nice, enjoy life
FB # - 1083

[Tonto 1]

Quote

you dont need a commercial license to fly skydivers

All our pilots are comm rated.

Quote

you don't loose a jump ticket if your plane lands cos the weather was too shit to jump.

Yes you do. It's your call on the weather - if you wrong, the prop still turned and you still pay.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[skydivejersey 0]

Quote

Every dz I've jumped at has said a commercial license was required to fly jumpers.

Only if you want to pay the pilot. Technically if the punters are paying for the ride and even if the pilot is unpaid you need a CPL (eg a senic tour), however in skydiving they are paying for the skydive not the ride - and that only begins when they get out the plane.

If the pilot is hours building no it can be done with a private pilots license (provided they are not paid). The majority of jump pilots (in the UK at least) are flying on a PPL to churn hours.

Quote

Again, at every dz I've jumped at if the plane takes off and you're on it, your ticket is gone.

Harsh. Never been to a DZ where if its called back due to weather you loose your ticket.

[skydivejersey 0]

Seems like things stateside are somewhat different to this side of the pond!

[flyangel2 2]

Quote

Harsh. Never been to a DZ where if its called back due to weather you loose your ticket.

I'd like to know where you've been jumping?
As others have said, if you get into the plane and you have questions about the weather, you don't get your ticket back. Now, if there is a problem with the plane that might be a different story.

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[skydivejersey 0]

I have jumped at Dz's in France, here in Jersey and the UK. Its the chief instructor who calls the plane. If the weather changes and doesn't look good the Jump Master on the plane, the Pilot or the Ground can call it off and everyone gets there money back.


If this is unusual:
How does this work with students? How does it work on a busy day when you manifest and it could be several hours before you jump?

[Hooknswoop 19]

Quote

Every dz I've jumped at has said a commercial license was required to fly jumpers.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Only if you want to pay the pilot. Technically if the punters are paying for the ride and even if the pilot is unpaid you need a CPL (eg a senic tour), however in skydiving they are paying for the skydive not the ride - and that only begins when they get out the plane.

If the pilot is hours building no it can be done with a private pilots license (provided they are not paid). The majority of jump pilots (in the UK at least) are flying on a PPL to churn hours.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Again, at every dz I've jumped at if the plane takes off and you're on it, your ticket is gone.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Harsh. Never been to a DZ where if its called back due to weather you loose your ticket.

Its always better to ask for forgiveness than permission.

In the USA, the FAA considers the flight time compensation. I have a case sitting in front of me dated August 21, 1997, where the pilot was found to be in violation for flying jumpers at a club with a private pilot's license.

Derek

[skydivejersey 0]

Interesting. I am starting a DZ in March so have spent quite a lot of time looking at the requirements but its all from a UK perspective. Aviation law is a funny beast.

I recently did my Airlaw exam as part of a PPL. One of the rights (and there aren't many!) of a PPL holder is the right to drop parachutists.

[Nullified 0]

Quote

Quote

Harsh. Never been to a DZ where if its called back due to weather you loose your ticket.

I'd like to know where you've been jumping?
As others have said, if you get into the plane and you have questions about the weather, you don't get your ticket back. Now, if there is a problem with the plane that might be a different story.

At least at my home DZ, if you get on the plane and then decide that maybe you shouldn't have, you'll pay for the ticket. But, if the weather has changed since you've taken off such that ground will radio the pilot about it (Winds), they will refund your ticket.

Stay safe

If you're gonna' be stupid, well, then you're most likely stupid.

[skydivejersey 0]

The only time you pay is if you could have got out and choose not to.

[billvon 2,400]

>you remind me of the guy with piss stained pants . . .

Cut it out. You too Ron. You can make your points without resorting to stuff like that.

[flyangel2 2]

Quote

If this is unusual:
How does this work with students? How does it work on a busy day when you manifest and it could be several hours before you jump?

I guess I can answer that from the stand point of when I was an office manager for a DZ. Most times this is what happened.
You can see if weather is going to be moving in, there are different signs that you learn to read, ie: clouds in the distance. Or the wind is starting to pick up. If there is a load on a call, before they board the aircraft they are told what the weather is doing, and it's their choice if they want to take a chance and try to beat the weather that is moving in. Once they have that information and they board the aircraft, it's up to them if they decide to jump or not.
If there are students on the aircraft and the weather moves in, the JMs make the decision if the students jump or not. Students are given a refund or re-manifested to the next load that will go up. The DZ I worked at was very conservative with winds and students. If there was a gust that went through that would cause the students to be grounded, we had to wait 20 minutes to make sure there wasn't going to be any more gust of winds.
Since most DZs have a computer in manifest with a manifest program of some kind, it's easy to delete the student, or move them to a different load. If it's several hours before a jump gets off, then the students wait till they are tired of waiting.

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[Skream 0]

My DZ doesn't even charge jumpers till you're done for the day... unless you're a tandem or FJC, they're charged up front. Students it's a no brainer, no jump, no pay.

But I guess we're a back woods inbred Kentucky DZ... still writing manifest on paper and working out of a run down trailer.

We have a portable toilet too. (though if you want to walk, there's a real one up at the airport office.)

---
Michael Teator
Lexington, Kentucky

[happythoughts 0]

Ok....ok. Enough social skills instruction (please?
Back to the topic... I was in a slot next to the people from Strong one year. During a weather/wind day, we got into this exact discussion. They were telling me that there was a study done.

The conclusion was that around 300 jumps is when people quit the sport. One of the deciding factors was an injury caused (most often) by letting ego overstep the skill level.

The injury caused a number of realizations, any of which could cause someone to leave.

First, the realization that they were an injury and not a fatality. What if the next one was?

Next, the financial strain. A $10K medical bill made skydiving too expensive.

Third, social pressures. If those reasons didn't make the jumper re-think it, it made those around them think. A wife/friends/parents/family can put a lot of pressure on someone when the decision impacts them.

[dgskydive 0]

Quote

This whole thread started when I complained about not being able to jump at a smaller drop zone.
_________________________________________________

This whole thing got started when you flamed small DZ's as backwards. Scott, I have met you in person and your not as bad as you seem on this site. Just think about what you say before you type it. You may not offend so many people. You are coming off as a bit of a whiner. Just enjoy the sport and experience something beofre you comment on it. I started at a 182 dz. I will say what others have already said. They are great. I did just under 100 jumps my first year in the sport, because I was at a small DZ. The best thing about the small DZ atmosphere is the family feeling. WE would sit around weekend after weekend in bad weather just hoping to get in a jump. Most of the time we didn't, but it was the need to be around other skydivers and at least watching a video or talking about it that kept us coming back every weekend rain or shine, sleet or snow. There we where just as happy as can be. During the winter the DZO put us to work trying to make the DZ better for us all. One of the best days I ever had at a DZ was spent freezing my ass off fixing the roof to our bulding in the snow! Not a single load went up that weekend, but we all had a good time. Help me out here Jack Gramley. Tell this youngster how it is! How many days did we sit around Blue Skies and just B.S. around. The best people I have ever met in skydiving where at that DZ. No offense to the people that I know and love at Perris. To this day when I see one of them I get all kinds of memories that swell up in my mind. Good times and bad. I wouldn't change a thing about my first few years in the sport. When you grow in the sport like that it gives you more of an apprectiation for what you have when you do get to a big place like Perris. I feel sorry for you that you didn't get that oppprtunity!
Now stop making yourself seem like an ass and think of how others will take what you say before you say it.

Dom

Dom

• Quote

[kallend 1,623]

Quote

Quote

you dont need a commercial license to fly skydivers

All our pilots are comm rated.

Quote

you don't loose a jump ticket if your plane lands cos the weather was too shit to jump.

Yes you do. It's your call on the weather - if you wrong, the prop still turned and you still pay.

t

Why call it a "jump ticket" if it doesn't give you a jump, but just a plane ride or a turn of the prop?

Call it a "lift ticket" if that's what you really mean.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 1,623]

Quote

Quote

Every dz I've jumped at has said a commercial license was required to fly jumpers.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Only if you want to pay the pilot. Technically if the punters are paying for the ride and even if the pilot is unpaid you need a CPL (eg a senic tour), however in skydiving they are paying for the skydive not the ride - and that only begins when they get out the plane.

If the pilot is hours building no it can be done with a private pilots license (provided they are not paid). The majority of jump pilots (in the UK at least) are flying on a PPL to churn hours.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Again, at every dz I've jumped at if the plane takes off and you're on it, your ticket is gone.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Harsh. Never been to a DZ where if its called back due to weather you loose your ticket.

Its always better to ask for forgiveness than permission.

In the USA, the FAA considers the flight time compensation. I have a case sitting in front of me dated August 21, 1997, where the pilot was found to be in violation for flying jumpers at a club with a private pilot's license.

Derek

IF and only if the pilot pays his/her share of the costs of the flight, then it can be done with a PPL. If the pilot doesn't share in the expenses, then it's considered "for hire" and a CPL or better is required.

So if your buddy the pilot who has his own plane takes you up for a jump on his dime, or you SHARE the cost of the gas with him, and he complies with all the other requirements (NOTAM, ATC contact, landowner permission, operational limitations) then it's OK even if he has only a PPL.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[happythoughts 0]

Neighhhh... thump, thump... neigh, thump, thump.