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winsor

Woke is a Joke

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6 minutes ago, kallend said:

There are tails at either end of any bell curve.

 

Let's stop treating the extreme tails as if they represent normal attitudes.

For the minority who is used to ruling the majority. The tail wagging the dog is normal.

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50 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

 aFor the minority who is used to ruling the majority. The tail wagging the dog is normal.

Unfortunately, the extremists in any organization tend to discredit any moderates that may constitute the majority.

An example that comes to mind is the drive to rewrite the Constitution in Chile.  The old one was written under Pinochet's rule, and it included particulars that were suited to authoritarian rule.  Some people took exception to this, and began to congregate in a park in downtown Santiago after work on Fridays. The Government wanted to keep a lid on any potential problems, and positioned Carabineros nearby. 

Unfortunately, a small percentage of the people drawn to these demonstrations were those with nothing to lose and chose to misbehave badly, and the authorities responded to their activities accordingly.

The individual Carabineros I spoke with were generally on the side of the peaceful protesters, and the protesters generally had a clear and reasoned standpoint and lamented the few who were there just to stir up trouble for their own amusement.

Eventually they wound up with a new Constitution and the peaceful transfer of power to a new President, so I hope it sorts itself out well.

Tolerating extremists that are on your side of the divide is risky.  Even GLAAD has nothing to do with NAMBLA.

 

BSBD,

Winsor

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1 hour ago, winsor said:
2 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

 aFor the minority who is used to ruling the majority. The tail wagging the dog is normal.

Unfortunately, the extremists in any organization tend to discredit any moderates that may constitute the majority.

An example that comes to mind is

People posting articles from Newsmax editors and neo-nazi owned websites.

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4 hours ago, winsor said:

Tolerating extremists that are on your side of the divide is risky.  Even GLAAD has nothing to do with NAMBLA.

OMFG. Does that include the Proud Boys, the Jan 6 "Capitor visitors" and stellar representatives like MJT and Louie Gohmert?

Wendy P.

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1 hour ago, wmw999 said:

OMFG. Does that include the Proud Boys, the Jan 6 "Capitol visitors" and stellar representatives like MJT and Louie Gohmert?

Wendy P.

No silly, those are 'patriots'. 

They don't count.

On a side note, more people have been charged with seditious conspiracy.

Former leader of the Proud Boys, and a few others.

Don't forget that, at a federal level, the only more serious crime against the country is treason.

 

https://apnews.com/article/capitol-siege-biden-congress-proud-boys-government-and-politics-7b27b6550bd0f400aa61893df3386f38

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1 hour ago, wmw999 said:

OMFG. Does that include the Proud Boys, the Jan 6 "Capitor visitors" and stellar representatives like MJT and Louie Gohmert?

Wendy P.

Both the right and left have their barking mad extremists.

I don't see a dimes worth of difference between the batshit crazy denizens of either side.

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4 minutes ago, winsor said:

Both the right and left have their barking mad extremists.

I don't see a dimes worth of difference between the batshit crazy denizens of either side.

Says the man who uses the words of the batshit crazy right to justify his dislike of the batshit crazy left.

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2 hours ago, wmw999 said:

OMFG. Does that include the Proud Boys, the Jan 6 "Capitor visitors" and stellar representatives like MJT and Louie Gohmert?

Wendy P.

Surely you know this dance by now.

Right winger: This act by XXX is a perfect example of the complete dishonesty and utter lack of morality by the left wing.
Centrist: But right winger YYY did exactly the same thing.
Right winger: Look, there are extremists on both sides.  Never claimed otherwise.  Just because YYY did this thing doesn't mean that's what the right believes.  But ZZZ - they are liberals and what they did is unforgivable and is PROOF that the left wing is nothing more than criminals!

And repeat.

The left supports pedophilia because someone thought Hillary Clinton ran an underground pedophilia ring.  Pedophiles!  Child hating criminals!  Liberals want to have sex with kids!

Then Matt Gaetz is actually investigated for trafficking in underage girls.  Right: "Well, innocent until proven guilty."  Joel Greenberg is found guilty of trafficking in underage girls - and supplied women for Gaetz.  Right: "Well, he doesn't represent all republicans.  The women he supplied for Gaetz said they were 18.  Now, Hunter Biden's laptop  . . ."

 

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56 minutes ago, winsor said:

Both the right and left have their barking mad extremists.

I don't see a dimes worth of difference between the batshit crazy denizens of either side.

But if you don’t understand where the fringe is on one side, and lump in (as an example) everyone who thinks that BLM isn’t completely evil and full of destructive people, into the wacko left.

Wendy P. 

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On 6/7/2022 at 11:00 AM, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi folks,

And, then there is this:  Burger King’s debuts ‘Pride Whopper’ with two top or bottom buns in Austria - oregonlive.com

Oh, the horror.

Jerry Baumchen

Two bottom buns? I was born with two bottom buns! What does that make me??????

P.S. My sister was also born with two bottom buns. What does that make her??????

Hah!

Hah!

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1 hour ago, riggerrob said:

Two bottom buns? I was born with two bottom buns! What does that make me??????

P.S. My sister was also born with two bottom buns. What does that make her??????

Hah!

Hah!

So I am totally interested in your sisters buns but I need more information on yours.

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11 hours ago, wmw999 said:

But if you don’t understand where the fringe is on one side, and lump in (as an example) everyone who thinks that BLM isn’t completely evil and full of destructive people, into the wacko left.

Wendy P. 

Nice try.

The Catholic Church (and to a greater or lesser extent its copycat cults) is an exemplar of the "banality of evil."  The people who support the institution largely do not get in to the nuts and bolts of the institutions machinations, but are pivotal to its survival.

I know/knew people who, after the humiliation of 1918 and the starvation of the early '20s, were supportive of the political system that turned it around and provided prosperity and victory (for a while at least).

FWIW, people who have a literal interpretation of the Torah are, by definition, crazy.  It's Bronze Age family lore, and its merits are akin to those of the Iliad and other contemporary works.

BLM is 100% racist, and its apologists are generally those who qualify as "useful idiots" per Bolshevik definition.  Whether their support is based on ignorance, denial, stupidity or a combination thereof, they are pivotal to the success of the organization.  Interviews with key BLM personnel make this abundantly clear.

"White guilt" is way fucked up.  I haven't had any slaves for quite some time now, and don't support anyone who hasn't freed theirs.  Having lived in very 'diverse' neighborhoods, I have witnessed more racism and 'oppression' from within the community of concern than from without.  For the record, I am not cool with any variant.

Your reference to Israel in another thread (I've never been there) suggests that you are projecting.  You would be well advised to avoid such a one-dimensional view of complex subjects.

 

BSBD,

Winsor

 

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5 hours ago, winsor said:

BLM is 100% racist, and its apologists are generally those who qualify as "useful idiots" per Bolshevik definition.

 

5 hours ago, winsor said:

You would be well advised to avoid such a one-dimensional view of complex subjects.

Both quotes from the same post. Outstanding Winsor.

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3 hours ago, gowlerk said:

Both quotes from the same post. Outstanding Winsor.

It's quite simple.  He has Jewish roots, and thus the history of Judaism is both nuanced and complex.  Sure, there are sections of the Old Testament that call for the troops of Moses to kill all the non-virgin girls and keep the virgin girls for their own use, and that sure sounds like rape, pedophilia and child massacre, but you have to understand the time that that was written in if you expect anyone to be taken seriously.  If not - your one dimensional view of that complex history is a joke.

But Mohammed was an insane pedophile, because I read a line of the Koran.

And you can't possibly understand what the Israelis have been through unless you've lived it.  They have a rich history and you have to interpret their actions through the lens of that history - a history of oppression and homelessness, a history of being targeted by a government for extermination.  If you had lived that you'd understand a little better.   

But black people are just plain nuts if they think we should care about their history of oppression.  Who cares?  Not me!  I'm not racist so there's no racism, and if black people think there is, they are just greedy takers.  Inner city youths.  No fathers.  Welfare queens.  And we should cancel CRT, because dredging up the history of racism will just foster division.

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12 hours ago, winsor said:

Nice try.

The Catholic Church blah blah irrelevant blah

Is Winsor starting to remind anyone else of Grandpa Simpson?

”Hey grandpa, what would you like for dinner?”

”Well back in the winter of 1929 we had to eat our boots for dinner. These weren’t boots like you have now, they were made of wooden soles and chicken wire. Now when I worked in a wooden boot sole factory was when I met the man who taught me how to juggle. Now let me tell you about life in the circus!”

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1 hour ago, jakee said:

Is Winsor starting to remind anyone else of Grandpa Simpson?

”Hey grandpa, what would you like for dinner?”

”Well back in the winter of 1929 we had to eat our boots for dinner. These weren’t boots like you have now, they were made of wooden soles and chicken wire. Now when I worked in a wooden boot sole factory was when I met the man who taught me how to juggle. Now let me tell you about life in the circus!”

Isn't that a Biden quote?^.^

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On 6/12/2022 at 4:37 AM, billvon said:

He has Jewish roots, and thus the history of Judaism is both nuanced and complex. ..........But black people are just plain nuts if they think we should care about their history of oppression.  Who cares?  Not me!  I'm not racist so there's no racism, and if black people think there is, they are just greedy takers.  Inner city youths.  No fathers.  Welfare queens.  And we should cancel CRT, because dredging up the history of racism will just foster division.

 If there were a Critical Anti-Semitism Theory being pushed through schools or a JLM movement then maybe you'd have a stronger whataboutism argument here. I have yet to meet a Jewish person who wears their oppression on their sleeve with the same kind of defeatist attitude and present day blamestorming that CRT encourages.

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1 hour ago, metalslug said:

 If there were a Critical Anti-Semitism Theory being pushed through schools or a JLM movement then maybe you'd have a stronger whataboutism argument here. I have yet to meet a Jewish person who wears their oppression on their sleeve with the same kind of defeatist attitude and present day blamestorming that CRT encourages.

Then you just don’t pay attention. Israel uses anti-semitism accusations to deflect criticism of their racist policies all the time.

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3 hours ago, metalslug said:

 If there were a Critical Anti-Semitism Theory being pushed through schools or a JLM movement then maybe you'd have a stronger whataboutism argument here. I have yet to meet a Jewish person who wears their oppression on their sleeve with the same kind of defeatist attitude and present day blamestorming that  FOX tells its viewers that CRT encourages.

Added some critical info 

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8 hours ago, metalslug said:

 If there were a Critical Anti-Semitism Theory being pushed through schools or a JLM movement then maybe you'd have a stronger whataboutism argument here.

There are whole neighbourhoods in New York, completely adapted to a specific Jewish way of life, with their own police force forcing a specific way of life for those in the neighbourhood.

 

Google Eruv and Shomrim.

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11 hours ago, metalslug said:

 If there were a Critical Anti-Semitism Theory being pushed through schools

There is.  But it's not called that - it's called Holocaust studies.

And yes, there are plenty of republicans who want to cancel that.  I experienced it myself in high school, where several Marianist teachers (including my history teacher) explained that Jews made a really big deal over the Holocaust for some reason, when in fact more Catholics died during the war and so they should get more attention and sympathy.

Arthur Jones, a GOP candidate from Illinois, has claimed that the Holocaust was "the biggest, blackest lie in history" - "nothing more than an international extortion racket by the Jews."

Chuck Johnson, a political adviser (and former Breitbart writer) who regularly meets with republican lawmakers: “I do not and never have believed the six million figure   I think the Red Cross numbers of 250,000 dead in the camps from typhus are more realistic. I think the Allied bombing of Germany was a war crime. I agree with David Cole about Auschwitz and the gas chambers not being real.”

David Cole, meanwhile, is a Holocaust denier and a Hollywood republican (and remarkably, a Jew) who ran the social group Republican Party Animals for years.

Marjorie Taylor Greene: wearing a mask is "exactly the type of abuse" experienced by Jews during the Holocaust.

(Now, most republicans are not Holocaust deniers because it doesn't play well, especially with them cozying up to neo-Nazis and white supremacists.  That's been a bridge too far for most republicans - fortunately.)

Why do they do this?  Because by minimizing or denying the Holocaust they can act against Jews more freely.  Alex Jones: several US Jews "are the head of the Jewish mafia in the United States. They run Uber, they run the health care, they’re going to scam you, they’re going to hurt you.”

And unfortunately it's working.  Most Americans don't know how many Jews were killed during the Holocaust.  55% of people in Texas can't name a single concentration camp.  23% of Americans think the Holocaust was either entirely faked or greatly exaggerated.  11% of Americans think the Holocaust was engineered by the Jews.  All victories for anti-history republicans.  As George Orwell says, "he who controls the past, controls the future."

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I have yet to meet a Jewish person who wears their oppression on their sleeve with the same kind of defeatist attitude and present day blamestorming that CRT encourages.

There are as many Jewish people who wear their oppression on their sleeves (just ask any Palestinian) as there are black people who wear their oppression on their sleeves (just ask FOX News.)

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(edited)
On 6/14/2022 at 5:39 AM, billvon said:

There is.  But it's not called that - it's called Holocaust studies.

A disgraceful statement. Holocaust studies are not a theory and to attempt to compare that to CRT is probably deeply insulting to the Jewish community. CRT, if you've ever read more than a few lines of the original literature, is significantly more skewed than a mere recounting of history. 

On 6/14/2022 at 5:39 AM, billvon said:

Why do they do this?  Because by minimizing or denying the Holocaust they can act against Jews more freely.  

How does that statement make any sense (without a tinfoil hat)?  Alex Jones has made disgraceful statements but it's absurd to believe that traits of either racism or anti-Semitism are defined by an individual's low awareness of history. By your logic there can be no such thing as a racist or anti-Semitic historian.  Would you not find it plausible that children and adolescents, having a relatively low awareness of history, can respectfully interact within multicultural communities... until they learn a particular flavour of history designed to re-introduce old hate?

Edited by metalslug
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50 minutes ago, metalslug said:

CRT, if you've ever read more than a few lines of the original literature, is significantly more skewed than a mere recounting of history.

Can you provide a link to this mythical evil CRT Bible or is it a fabrication of the right used to keep the uneducated angry?

Quote

How does that statement make any sense (without a tinfoil hat)?  Alex Jones has made disgraceful statements but it's absurd to believe that traits of either racism or anti-Semitism are defined by an individual's low awareness of history. By your logic there can be no such thing as a racist or anti-Semitic historian.  Would you not find it plausible that children and adolescents, having a relatively low awareness of history, can respectfully interact within multicultural communities... until they learn a particular flavour of history designed to re-introduce old hate?

WHAT?????

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29 minutes ago, lippy said:

Can you provide a link to this mythical evil CRT Bible or is it a fabrication of the right used to keep the uneducated angry?

The clearest evidence yet that you've never read it. The original work was not a stand-alone publication. Do you feel angry?   If you need it concise, try this.

31 minutes ago, lippy said:

WHAT?????

Yup; children and adolescents respectfully interacting within multicultural communities,  that's actually 'a thing'. Unfortunate if you experienced it differently.

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1 hour ago, metalslug said:

A disgraceful statement. Holocaust studies are not a theory and to attempt to compare that to CRT is probably deeply insulting to the Jewish community. CRT, if you've ever read more than a few lines of the original literature, is significantly more skewed than a mere recounting of history. 

You can get deeply insulted by whatever you like.  CRT is the study of the history of structural racism in the US, no matter what clown-car carciature FOX News tries to make of it.  Holocaust studies study a particular egregious example of genocide in world history.  They are not the same, but are denied by similar people for similar reasons - because they don't want the people involved in those studies to be able to claim victim status.  Indeed, "The Great Replacement Theory" claims that it is the WHITE race who are the victims of an aggressive plot to replace them with inferior immigrants, and replacement theory promoters are one of the strongest voices against CRT for that (obvious) reason.

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Alex Jones has made disgraceful statements but it's absurd to believe that traits of either racism or anti-Semitism are defined by an individual's low awareness of history. 

An individual's low awareness of history helps (but does not ensure) that person to believe that the Holocaust never happened, or that structural racism never existed. 

Indeed, you have just described exactly why conservatives want to cancel CRT.  By maintaining that low awareness, it is far easier for the Alex Joneses of the world to convince people that he is right - and that helps republicans.

Quote

By your logic there can be no such thing as a racist or anti-Semitic historian.

Of course there can be.  Heck, there are biologists who doesn't believe in evolution and geologists who believe the Earth was created 6000 years ago.  Education just makes those beliefs and attitudes much harder to sustain.  But - as Jesuit scientists throughout the years have proven - if you have a strong enough incentive you can do it.

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until they learn a particular flavour of history designed to re-introduce old hate?

Again, this is also the argument against teaching Holocaust studies.  Why make Jewish children hate German children?  Wouldn't not knowing be better for them, and let them get over their old hate?

Answer - no.

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