More mass shootings

[kallend 1,623]

RiggerLee

And oddly the concentrations are in cities with high levels of gun control. Chicago.

Lee

Another myth propagated by the gun lobby:

www.politifact.com/illinois/statements/2017/oct/03/sarah-huckabee-sanders/chicago-toughest-gun-control-claim-shot-full-holes/

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 1,623]

RiggerLee

I'm old school so when I talk about Europe I mean the west. Not the Commie, eastern block side. I still think of them as the Soviet Union. The US data is right up to last week.

Lee

In the referenced post the US data you quote ARE from 2010 and 2012. Last week was 2017.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[tkhayes 126]

Quote

The first step is for people on both sides to agree that there is some sort of problem - Without that absolutely nothing can happen. The next step can be to define the scope of the issue.

that is the crux of it. only half the country wants to see stricter gun laws.

America is just fine with carnage and death via guns. In fact they fucking love it. I will put $100 on a bet that they find absolutely no motivation for this asshole killing people other than fulfilling a fantasy. That fantasy is shared by more and more americans every day IMO. Americans cannot wait to shoot someone. They dream about it.

Next body count will have to be higher to be considered to be a success.

'No red-blooded white american was not going to be outdone by some Arab faggot in Orlando now was he?'

[kallend 1,623]

Amazing that people can get worked up about drones

while ignoring the 500 pound gorilla.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[melch 0]

While the claim is currently false, you're going to have to do better than that to explain the levels of violence from 1982 until 2010.

[MikeJD 0]

Lawndarter

It strikes the rest of the world as nuts that Americans are told they must simply accept the level of carnage as the "price" of freedom that everyone else seems to enjoy without the bloodbath.

As another representative of the rest of the world, I sort-of agree, but as a non-American, obviously it's not my place to tell the US what it should be doing about gun control.

What does get me is the number of Americans who seem to think we in the UK, for example, are being repressed because we're not allowed to carry firearms.

I certainly don't feel as though my rights are violated by that. I do feel very happy to live in a society where I can scarcely imagine a situation in which I'd want to be carrying a gun.

[Phil1111 911]

It appears as if the gunman had up to a dozen bumpstocks in his hotel room. Its been reported that he bought 33 guns in the last 12 months.

LE has reported that he fired continuously for between nine and 12 minutes. Then ceased fire. The time between when he opened fire, 10:08 P.M. and when LE breached his door, 11:20 P.M. Means he was in the room for an hour after the shooting ceased, until LE entered his room.

America's gun culture in eight charts
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41488081

[RiggerLee 61]

Actually it was published Oct 2 2017 and includes all mass shootings in america up to that day. It's the LA Times I don't think you claim any sort of right wing bias there.

Heller did over turn their blanket hand gun ban in 2008 however IL is still on the list of most restrictive states requiring things like special licencing. If you look up any cool toy you'll find IL listed as one of the states they wont ship to.

Lee

Lee
[email protected]
www.velocitysportswear.com

[RiggerLee 61]

You're defining things differently. One list is of four or more people killed in an incident. The link you posted is of four or more people injured.

Lee

Lee
[email protected]
www.velocitysportswear.com

[Lawndarter 3]

RiggerLee

Some statistics.

I think your cherrypicking has been thrashed out enough so I won't comment on that, but there's some points here I do want to pick up on.

RiggerLee

So yes people die with guns. Of that number approximately 2/3 of them are suicide.

Correct. Also a scourge. Suicide is an impulse act, and ready access to firearms is a key driver of suicides. See a list of studies here: https://www.google.ca/search?q=access+to+firearms+and+suicide&rlz=1C1GGRV_enCA753CA753&oq=access+to+firearms+and+suicide&aqs=chrome..69i57.3615j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

The Harvard study here: https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/means-matter/risk/ particularly highlights the impact and is one that disposes of the claim that "people will just choose other means".

I was appalled as while American veterans I'm friends with were scrambling to help reduce the number of suicides amongst their friends and comrades that some idiot was up talking about how awful it was that the VA was trying to get guns out of the hands of veterans who were seeking treatment for mental health issues.

I'm also not even joking about the monotonous regularity of children - including toddlers - killing people in the United States with guns. The literal rocket scientist in Utah (or was it Idaho?) who was killed in a Walmart by her two year old was the most shocking example, but hardly an isolated one. That also doesn't happen anywhere else.

[gowlerk 1,912]

Quote

If you look up any cool toy you'll find IL listed as one of the states they wont ship to.

As long as the tools of war, designed to kill people and good for little else, are looked upon as mere "cool toys" America will continue to pay the price in blood. The level of selfishness in this attitude is astounding.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[Lawndarter 3]

RiggerLee

If you look up any cool toy you'll find IL listed as one of the states they wont ship to.

And yet, IL is surrounded by more permissive states that supply ample amounts of firearms to it.

Canada and Mexico bemoan the same problems - lots of the gun crime committed up here is with handguns readily available in the United States smuggled into Canada. It's even easier between states for fairly obvious reasons.

[rushmc 18]

He may have killed more just driving a truck down the middle of the crowd

Those are not to hard to get

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

DanG

Be careful. If you keep making assumptions to score political points before all the facts are known rushmc will start cursing at you. He hates that.

Hmm... (crickets)

You know all the facts already???

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[RMK 3]

Can you point out the example of 50 or more deaths and 500+ injuries via automobile in a single occurrence. I'm not aware of one (US or globally).

"Pain is the best instructor, but no one wants to attend his classes"

[billvon 2,400]

>Billvon please get one the "gold star" stickers out of your desk drawer and affix next to
>PhreeZone's avatar.

Since he's a mod we will just give him a big raise - say, 50%.

(Waiting for RushMC to post on how bump stocks don't work on semiautomatic weapons. Because he has firsthand knowledge.)

[kallend 1,623]

melch

While the claim is currently false, you're going to have to do better than that to explain the levels of violence from 1982 until 2010.

You mean, when it was [url "https://cloudfront.mediamatters.org/static/uploader/image/2013/06/19/chicagomurderchart.jpg"]steadily DECREASING.


It's only been going up again since the gun restrictions were lifted.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 1,623]

RiggerLee

You're defining things differently. One list is of four or more people killed in an incident. The link you posted is of four or more people injured.

Lee

I guess not dying when shot makes it OK then.

It's still a mass shooting.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[gowlerk 1,912]

kallend

***You're defining things differently. One list is of four or more people killed in an incident. The link you posted is of four or more people injured.

Lee

I guess not dying when shot makes it OK then.

It's still a mass shooting.


That brings up an interesting subject. We tend to focus on the deaths. But for every death there are several people who have their lives forever altered. It is America after all, so many of them will be financially ruined by medical bills. Many will not ever be able to work again.

But man, those fucking toys are the coolest thing ever. You'll take them from me only by prying them from my cold dead hands. Praise the Lord and pass the peas.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[kallend 1,623]

RiggerLee

Actually it was published Oct 2 2017 and includes all mass shootings in america up to that day. It's the LA Times I don't think you claim any sort of right wing bias there.



Lee

Selective amnesia?

Riggerlee

Some statistics.

In 2010, 67% of all homicides in the U.S. were committed using a firearm.[7] In 2012, there were 8,855 total firearm-related homicides in the US, with 6,371 of those attributed to handguns.[8] In 2012, 64% of all gun-related deaths in the U.S. were suicides.[9] In 2010, there were 19,392 firearm-related suicides, and 11,078 firearm-related homicides in the U.S.[10] In 2010, 358 murders were reported involving a rifle while 6,009 were reported involving a handgun; another 1,939 were reported with an unspecified type of firearm.[11]

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[RMK 3]

From your above posts, I'll surmise that you didn't take a statistics class at school.

"Pain is the best instructor, but no one wants to attend his classes"

[DanG 1]

Quote

You know all the facts already???

No, Einstein, and neither does the conservative poster above who guessed that the shooter was an Antifa liberal. I was commenting on your selective outrage at people jumping to conclusions.

- Dan G

[yoink 321]

rushmc

He may have killed more just driving a truck down the middle of the crowd

Your unprovable supposition aside, Western society would collapse without some form of personal / commercial transportation so removing them entirely isn't really an option. But we do have hundreds of laws that try to make those vehicles as safe as possible. Crumple zones, airbags, seatbelts, speed limits, tire regulations etc etc...


Neither of those things are true about guns.
Society would not collapse if every gun in the world just blinked out of existence tomorrow, and they are specifically designed to do harm (that's their purpose) so laws limiting the harm they can do would be contrary to their basic function.

I feel like you've used this argument before and have been made to look foolish each time. You have no comeback though, so just keep repeating the same thing - you're like a stuck record.

At least Lee was honest enough to say that he thinks his right to own guns is worth the continual carnage they cause and tries to find data to back up his claims. As usual, you just parrot meaningless phrases and arguments that are spoon-fed to you without any conscious thoughts of your own.

[normiss 622]

It's a fantastic comparison and for the first time ever, I actually appreciate his comments.
After all, ALL of those trucks require training and licensing, registration, and insurance. Their use and possession are heavily regulated. Even the contents of the trucks are documented and regulated!
Again, it's a fantastic comparison.
It's nice to see some progress in the gun control discussion with some from the far right for once.

[PhreeZone 15]

Its pretty simple math - getting a legitimate full auto M16 or similar would have ran the purchaser about $12-15,000 for the purchase. A AR with a SureFire will be maybe $1000-2000. Once it came out that the shooter had dozens of guns in his possession the math was putting the shooter at either having spent a few hundred thousand dollars (upwards of $400000 for guns, ammo, optics, etc ) or less than $40000 with ammo and optics. This was before it was known that the shooter was a multimillionaire that could have afforded full auto if he really wanted them.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com