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kallend

More mass shootings

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>He's a 64 yr old white man in the southwestern US; he was probably given
>complementary membership to the "Gun of the Month Club".

Yep. And he was in Vegas.

From an ad from a Las Vegas range described as "the ultimate shooting experience":

For the ultimate machine gun shooting in Las Vegas, The Range 702 is the destination. Whether you’re new to the shooting sports or are a seasoned shooter, you’ll feel the rush of lighting off hundreds of rounds downrange. View our fully automatic machine gun packages for an experience that can only be described as exhilarating and adrenaline pumping. Shoot weapons that saw action in war, Hollywood movies, and gangland activities.

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billvon

>But if that is the worst thing that can be said about it then it will be considered a "win"
>and a sign that he can be "presidential"

I wonder if he will come out with a statement blaming both sides? After all, some of those people below the Mandalay Bay didn't have a permit.



There are some really fine people on both sides.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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Took Trump two weeks to get to Puerto Rico. He'll visit Las Vegas on Wednesday. Not equivalent, nevertheless telling.

Wendy P.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

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normiss

White privilege.
I would expect to hear a positive gun rights comment from the NRA, and never hear the word terrorism.
Everyone should have a full auto machine gun.

Increased security stations at the entrance to hotels, casinos, concerts, downtown areas, bathrooms, public gathering places, malls, airport entrances, grocery stores, etc.



Well, reports are that it was full auto. It certainly sounded like it in the audio clips. There's a difference between actual automatic fire and rapid fire semi-auto.

Full auto ownership is pretty restricted in the US. The "Silencer" thread covers some of it.
And contrary to Hollywood and media reports, converting a semi-auto to full auto capable is not really easy. Machinist skills, gunsmith skills and a decent shop setup are required. It's not something someone (anyone) could do with a Dremel tool after watching a couple YouTube videos.

The debate on guns should be interesting. If it was a full auto, then including semi auto stuff in the debate is a stretch.
And the NRA supported Trump from early on. They claim he's the most pro 2nd A president in a long time.

Yet he has a long history of anti-gun statements.
And a long history of saying whatever he thinks will get him the most support. And then abandoning those supporters once their usefulness is done.

Will he abandon his supporters (lots of the "Trump Type" are also pro-gun) this time?
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

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The rate of fire seemed more like that of a AR fitted with a bump stock. That would have been about 15 minutes work to fit to any AR that you have laying around and that would boost the rate of fire to 500+ rounds a minute. None of that would run afoul of any current restrictions either. Combo that with a 50 round drum and its about 15 seconds worth of fire per drum.

Just curious I went out and looked at a few of the bump fire retailers and they are all sold out as of today. Lots of people trying to snatch one up in case there are any restrictions coming down in the future on them....
Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

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kallend

***>But if that is the worst thing that can be said about it then it will be considered a "win"
>and a sign that he can be "presidential"

I wonder if he will come out with a statement blaming both sides? After all, some of those people below the Mandalay Bay didn't have a permit.



There are some really fine people on both sides.

Wouldn't surprise me if the shooter was an Antifa sympathizer. Tell me... What kind of demographic loves country music? Mostly white conservative rural Republicans.

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>Tell me... What kind of demographic loves country music? Mostly white
>conservative rural Republicans.

And what kind of demographic loves having arsenals of automatic weapons with large capacity magazines, and has heroic fantasies of righting perceived wrongs with their weapons? Again, mostly white conservative rural Republicans.

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tkhayes

nope, we will simply say, "this is not the time to talk about it"... which is the standard response to all tragedies and all protests in the USA. Americans are so weak and such pussies that they cannot address the issues that face society... unless of course it means more guns and war.



Great prediction. That is pretty much exactly what the White House said.
www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/politics/ct-white-house-gun-debate-20171002-story.html

I wonder when the right time will be.

I wonder how well "thoughts and prayers" work in preventing shooting sprees.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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nolhtairt

******>But if that is the worst thing that can be said about it then it will be considered a "win"
>and a sign that he can be "presidential"

I wonder if he will come out with a statement blaming both sides? After all, some of those people below the Mandalay Bay didn't have a permit.



There are some really fine people on both sides.

Wouldn't surprise me if the shooter was an Antifa sympathizer. Tell me... What kind of demographic loves country music? Mostly white conservative rural Republicans.

What we KNOW is that he was an older white rural male from Mequite, NV who had no political affiliations according to his brother.

All else in your post is pure speculation and wishful thinking.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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PhreeZone

The rate of fire seemed more like that of a AR fitted with a bump stock. That would have been about 15 minutes work to fit to any AR that you have laying around and that would boost the rate of fire to 500+ rounds a minute. None of that would run afoul of any current restrictions either. Combo that with a 50 round drum and its about 15 seconds worth of fire per drum.

Just curious I went out and looked at a few of the bump fire retailers and they are all sold out as of today. Lots of people trying to snatch one up in case there are any restrictions coming down in the future on them....



Maybe, maybe not.

The audio I heard (and I only heard a bit on the news, I haven't gone and looked for it) had fairly long and consistent bursts. No "stumbling" through a couple shots semi, in the middle of a longer burst.

The bump fire stocks, or a Hell Fire, or the "Rubber Band" technique or any of the "use the recoil of the shot to push it back then go forward to pull the trigger" techniques require a fair amount of finesse.

Getting the sort of consistency I heard takes a good bit of practice. It's easy enough to do on the range, but under stress? The "fine motor skills" necessary to do that sort of thing are the first to go under that kind of stress.

I am very interested in hearing an official statement on the weapon(s) used.
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

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RMK

but we're talking about 'Murican Patriots with their county CCP training? - you're just trying to bring logic into the argument ;)



The blood is not even dry in the pukes politicizing this horrible act come out from under their rocks faster than anything seen by anybody
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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Like the people speculating that he's actually a liberal/antifa type? I'm waiting to hear the first mention of George Soros :|

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

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wmw999

Took Trump two weeks to get to Puerto Rico. He'll visit Las Vegas on Wednesday. Not equivalent, nevertheless telling.

Wendy P.



Sorry, not telling it all Wendy! To pull into Puerto Rico at this time or earlier would have caused all kinds of security backup that would have hindered the relief effort. No such thing is going to happen in Las Vegas. The rush to politicize this president in the things these trying to do or disgusting and I thought you were above that.
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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wolfriverjoe

***The rate of fire seemed more like that of a AR fitted with a bump stock. That would have been about 15 minutes work to fit to any AR that you have laying around and that would boost the rate of fire to 500+ rounds a minute. None of that would run afoul of any current restrictions either. Combo that with a 50 round drum and its about 15 seconds worth of fire per drum.

Just curious I went out and looked at a few of the bump fire retailers and they are all sold out as of today. Lots of people trying to snatch one up in case there are any restrictions coming down in the future on them....



Maybe, maybe not.

The audio I heard (and I only heard a bit on the news, I haven't gone and looked for it) had fairly long and consistent bursts. No "stumbling" through a couple shots semi, in the middle of a longer burst.

The bump fire stocks, or a Hell Fire, or the "Rubber Band" technique or any of the "use the recoil of the shot to push it back then go forward to pull the trigger" techniques require a fair amount of finesse.

Getting the sort of consistency I heard takes a good bit of practice. It's easy enough to do on the range, but under stress? The "fine motor skills" necessary to do that sort of thing are the first to go under that kind of stress.

I am very interested in hearing an official statement on the weapon(s) used.

Drop in auto sears and drop in auto devices are easy to build and fit most older AR-15's. Most (original)full auto military rifles can be converted from semi to full auto by any gunsmith or machinist. Who aren't afraid of ATF and/or prison.

What this means is that there are 7.62(.308) machine guns where the sideplates (the receiver as defined by ATF) are retooled or removed. Then the weapon is sold as a semi-auto kit. The same as any regular firearm. This also applies to 5.56 full auto weapons(SAW).

Some of the firing sequences from the audio suggest magazines larger than 30 rounds.

This shooter was shooting for one hour and 12 minutes before his Mandalay suite door was breached.

There have been three IS/Islam terror attacks in Canada. Two days ago in Edmonton Canada a Somali refugee struck a cop with a car hard enough to launch the cop 15' in the air. Then he attacked him with a knife and fled. He has a IS flag in his car.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/terrorism-charges-edmonton-attacks-1.4316450

In the 2014 attacks, one on parliament hill, Ottawa Ont. a deranged man who wanted to do Jihad used a lever action rifle to kill a war memorial honor guard. Two days prior to that a car was used as a weapon to kill a solider and injure another in a separate attack.

The relative unavailability of weapons in Canada vr. the US is undoubtedly a factor in keeping fatalities lower in Canada.

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billvon

>Tell me... What kind of demographic loves country music? Mostly white
>conservative rural Republicans.

And what kind of demographic loves having arsenals of automatic weapons with large capacity magazines, and has heroic fantasies of righting perceived wrongs with their weapons? Again, mostly white conservative rural Republicans.



It is somewhat disturbing to learn more about the Vegas gunman. Then compare him to James T. Hodgkinson, 66, of Belleville, Illinois. He is the Virginia gunman.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/06/who-is-james-t-hodgkinson/530295/

For Hodgkinson there seems to be an understandable political motive. For Stephen Paddock, 64, motive seems so far unfathomable.

Guess the picture will emerge given time.

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The motive doesn't matter - It'll be different in the mass shooting that is statistically going to happen tomorrow. And the day after. And the day after.
Who gives a shit who he was affiliated with? Mass killings need to stop being seen as a political point scoring tragedy, first and foremost.

If doesn't matter if the gunman's political affiliations were to the left, to the right, or to the fucking martians - the problem is the same. A person had the ability to do this, and he was wrong to do it regardless of anything else... if people from both sides of the political fence can't agree on that, then there is absolutely no point in even discussing this event... You may as well wish for something to happen.

In tonights news! 59 people killed at a concert in Las Vegas. And now over to Chad for the sport.


Either we limit the ability (somehow) that people have to commit acts like this, or we accept that this is the cost of the amount of freedoms we currently have. Motivation doesn't come into it.

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Either we limit the ability (somehow) that people have to commit acts like this, or we accept that this is the cost of the amount of freedoms we currently have.




Most of America is willing to accept the price of the 2nd Amendment. It's part of the exceptionalism.
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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Nope. They're too cowardly to have put those words out there.


I agree that that is the situation, but let's hear some of the gun rights people say it - 'this is a tragedy, and it will be a tragedy next time it happens, but I am not willing to give up my constitutionally protected rights to try and change it.' Grow some balls - enough with the crocodile tears already.

fucking Bill O'Reilly is the most honest person out there at the moment. Which is absurd.

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I'm a gun rights guy. I'll say it. This is the danger that we face as a direct result of our freedom. It's called free will. It's a choice that every single person makes in their life every day. It's a moral and ethical choice. To do the right, honest, decent, good thing or the wrong, selfish, corrupt, evil one. To open the door, return the wallet, help the weak, and make the world a better place or the opposite. It doesn't have any thing to do with guns. It's a choice that's made a thousand times a day. When people fail in these test, small failures that will never be known or savage act that will live in infamy, it's a failure of society. There are a thousand tragedies every day. When a child takes their first drug. When a man cheats on his wife. When some one steals. Individual choices but collectively as a society. Cancer is just a cell in your body but the malignancy can kill you. The real issue is the moral/ethical balance of the nation. When did right and wrong become a question of whether or not you were caught?

It doesn't have any thing to do with guns. What if it was a bomb. What if some one poisoned food or medicine. Remember Tylonal? It's not a question of means. A gun is not exactly a powerful weapon. Sorry, but it's not. Let's not talk about some of the things he could of done, I don't want to start giving people ideas. The problem is there will always be a means if an individual chouses to do evil. That's the root problem. People chousing to do evil. When you tare down education, logic, ethics, morality. When you disassembly the structures that bind communities together, like churches. As people lose connection they start to become sociopathic and psychotic.

I'm setting here in front of a screen. You're setting in front of another screen reading it. How much humanity is left in the world when this is our reality. As human beings become less real it's easier to become detached, to lose empathy. How many of these mass shooters are captured alive? Very few. It's a new form of suicide. One that allows them to lash out at a world that they do not care about. It's fed by the stardom. The idea that their names, that were unknown, will be legendary. And since their aim is to die no consequence can touch them. Unbound by and inhibition of ethics or morality what is to discourage them and the rewards are massive. Rolling Stone turned the Boston bomber in to a rock star. Is it any wonder that they can find suicide bombers in the middle east or a mad man in a motel window in Las Vagus?

Step back and look at the larger picture of the society we are building. That is where the problems and ultimately the solutions lie. The gun doesn't matter. Next time it will be a pressure cooker. Fertilizer. Poison. Or a germ. The means don't matter.


And Bill O'reilly is a smart man.

Lee
Lee
[email protected]
www.velocitysportswear.com

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This is the danger that we face as a direct result of our freedom. It's called free will. It's a choice that every single person makes in their life every day. It's a moral and ethical choice. To do the right, honest, decent, good thing or the wrong, selfish, corrupt, evil one.



I see this argument a lot, the idea that people are the issue and not the weapon. While this is true and in no way can we presume to legislate morality, we can put forth legislation to remove the tools used to exponentially affect evil upon others. Had this man not had access to the tools allowing him to exponentially project his evilness on others, 59 people (and counting) would not be dead this morning. The morality argument is bunk.

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The motive and reason is solved; move along now nothing to see here.

Pat Robertson Blames Las Vegas Massacre On ‘Disrespect’ For Donald Trump and protests during the national anthem

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/pat-robertson-las-vegas-massacre_us_59d2e869e4b048a44324a6bb

I think this proves there is no God; Tom Petty is dead and Pat Robertson is still alive
"Pain is the best instructor, but no one wants to attend his classes"

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