More mass shootings

[RMK 3]

RiggerLee

It doesn't have any thing to do with guns.

Try this simple test. Take any random article on a mass shooting and replace every instance of the word "gun" with either "grenade" or "bomb". Read it again. It makes for a pretty absurd article when re-read - well at least to persons from other advanced societies.

"Pain is the best instructor, but no one wants to attend his classes"

[airdvr 197]

I'm going to agree with most here in saying the automatic AR makes this type of thing much worse. I visited my son in the Navy a couple of months back. He has an AR. I asked him what it takes to make it fully automatic. He said it was easy and readily available.

SO where to go from here?

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[RonD1120 58]

Very astutely stated opinion.

In America I prefer communities bound together by Christian churches.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[kallend 1,625]

And in other news on Sunday:

Weber City, Va.: Todd Allen Richardson, 44, fatally shot his estranged wife after inviting her to his house to collect her belongings. He subsequently led police on a high-speed car chase, taking his own life at the end of it.

Milwaukee: Stanley Smith, 56, a father and grandfather, was killed by unknown assailants outside his home in the early hours of the morning.

Avondale, Ariz.: A man was fatally shot and a woman was wounded after an altercation between two groups of people in a parking lot.

Las Vegas: A person was shot and killed in a room of The Suites hotel in the early- morning hours.

Rochester, N.Y.: Shaquan McMillan, 23, was fatally shot in the chest outside of Abbott's Frozen Custard in the early-morning hours.

Las Vegas: At least 59 people were killed and more than 500 injured after a gunman opened fire on a crowd of people attending a country music concert.

Miami: A man was shot and killed by police in the early morning hours after gunshots were reported outside Heads or Tails Gentleman's Lounge.

Lawrence, Kan.: Three people were killed and two more wounded following an altercation downtown in the early-morning hours. The dead included 22-year-old Leah Elizabeth Brown, 20-year-old Colwin Lynn Henderson, and 24-year-old Tremel Dupree Dean.

Chicago: About 10:30 in the morning, a 28-year-old man was killed and a woman with him was injured after another man walked up to them and opened fire.

Kent, Wash.: Three men in their 20s were shot, one fatally, near a strip mall.

Indianapolis: A teenager was fatally shot about 4 a.m. after a family member mistook him for an intruder in the home.

Chester, Pa.: About 9:30 a.m., a man was found fatally shot in a home in Chester.

Tulsa: As a family prepared to leave their home, they were confronted by a lone person carrying a gun. The person fatally shot the father and fled on foot.

District Heights, Md.: A man in his 50s was found fatally shot in a home.

Norcorss, Ga.: Domiquo Riley, 19, was fatally shot outside a club in the early hours of the morning.

Houston: A cabdriver was shot to death outside a gas station in the early hours of the morning.

Fort Collins, Colo.: Police shot and killed an armed man at the Best Value Inn after responding to reports of shots fired.

Burlington, Iowa.: Marquise Jones, 27, was shot and killed by police during a traffic stop. Authorities say they recovered a handgun at the scene.

Parkton, S.C.: A man was shot and killed during an armed standoff with police officers.

Chicago: 22-year-old was found dead on a sidewalk with multiple gunshot wounds in the early hours of Sunday morning.

Augusta, Ga.: Darrell Brown, 8, was fatally shot by his uncle Sunday afternoon.

San Antonio: A man in his 20s was fatally shot in a drive-by shooting Sunday afternoon.

Baltimore: A 24-year-old man was fatally shot during an armed robbery in the early hours of the morning.

Baltimore: Another 24-year-old man was found fatally shot in the head on Myrtle Avenue about 8:30 a.m.

Not a problem, just collateral damage in an exceptional nation. Move along please.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 1,625]

RiggerLee

It doesn't have any thing to do with guns.

ABSOLUTE NONSENSE.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Phil1111 911]

I don't disagree with what you've said. I was raised around guns and farming. Where I could walk out the back door with my stainless S&W .357 and head out to the pasture to shoot to my hearts content.

Yesterday on another forum. There was a comment. "Only in the US can everyone have the right to own and use a machine gun. But its a privilege to get the medical care to repair those results and freedoms".

He could have killed more by flying a aircraft into that crowd as he was a pilot. But Hollywood gunthink, copycat thinking, the ready availability of guns in the US. Have made the US the poster child for these events. Sure they have occurred elsewhere. Canada, Australia, UK, France, etc.

But only in the US is this so sickening repetitive. So disheartening.

[gowlerk 1,914]

Quote

I'm a gun rights guy. I'll say it.

I learned long ago that it's pointless to try to change that viewpoint. America is willing to pay the price in blood for their right to play with the toys of war. You probably will not be a victim. And probably not your loved ones either. And if you are a victim of a shooting, most likely it will be a suicide. Carry on.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[Lawndarter 3]

RiggerLee

I'm a gun rights guy. I'll say it. This is the danger that we face as a direct result of our freedom. It's called free will. It's a choice that every single person makes in their life every day. It's a moral and ethical choice. To do the right, honest, decent, good thing or the wrong, selfish, corrupt, evil one. To open the door, return the wallet, help the weak, and make the world a better place or the opposite. It doesn't have any thing to do with guns. It's a choice that's made a thousand times a day. When people fail in these test, small failures that will never be known or savage act that will live in infamy, it's a failure of society. There are a thousand tragedies every day. When a child takes their first drug. When a man cheats on his wife. When some one steals. Individual choices but collectively as a society. Cancer is just a cell in your body but the malignancy can kill you. The real issue is the moral/ethical balance of the nation. When did right and wrong become a question of whether or not you were caught?

It doesn't have any thing to do with guns. What if it was a bomb. What if some one poisoned food or medicine. Remember Tylonal? It's not a question of means. A gun is not exactly a powerful weapon. Sorry, but it's not. Let's not talk about some of the things he could of done, I don't want to start giving people ideas. The problem is there will always be a means if an individual chouses to do evil. That's the root problem. People chousing to do evil. When you tare down education, logic, ethics, morality. When you disassembly the structures that bind communities together, like churches. As people lose connection they start to become sociopathic and psychotic.

I'm setting here in front of a screen. You're setting in front of another screen reading it. How much humanity is left in the world when this is our reality. As human beings become less real it's easier to become detached, to lose empathy. How many of these mass shooters are captured alive? Very few. It's a new form of suicide. One that allows them to lash out at a world that they do not care about. It's fed by the stardom. The idea that their names, that were unknown, will be legendary. And since their aim is to die no consequence can touch them. Unbound by and inhibition of ethics or morality what is to discourage them and the rewards are massive. Rolling Stone turned the Boston bomber in to a rock star. Is it any wonder that they can find suicide bombers in the middle east or a mad man in a motel window in Las Vagus?

Step back and look at the larger picture of the society we are building. That is where the problems and ultimately the solutions lie. The gun doesn't matter. Next time it will be a pressure cooker. Fertilizer. Poison. Or a germ. The means don't matter.

The means certainly matter. There's a reason this doesn't happen anywhere else.

It strikes the rest of the world as nuts that Americans are told they must simply accept the level of carnage as the "price" of freedom that everyone else seems to enjoy without the bloodbath.

RiggerLee

And Bill O'reilly is a smart man.

I can only assume that you are joking. O'Reilly is not a smart man at all.

[nolhtairt 0]

raftman

Yeah, but he was shooting at the crowd of "mostly white conservative rural republicans"

Which is why I'm leaning to the thought that he was an Antifa sympathizer/Trump hater.

Same thing with the DC baseball game shooter. You don't have to be a white conservative republican to amass a bunch of guns.

[nolhtairt 0]

kallend

*********>But if that is the worst thing that can be said about it then it will be considered a "win"
>and a sign that he can be "presidential"

I wonder if he will come out with a statement blaming both sides? After all, some of those people below the Mandalay Bay didn't have a permit.

There are some really fine people on both sides.

Wouldn't surprise me if the shooter was an Antifa sympathizer. Tell me... What kind of demographic loves country music? Mostly white conservative rural Republicans.

What we KNOW is that he was an older white rural male from Mequite, NV who had no political affiliations according to his brother.

All else in your post is pure speculation and wishful thinking.

There are pics of him at Trump/KKK/Nazi protests already out. Try again. Take those blinders off. You're not a horse.

[billvon 2,400]

>It doesn't have any thing to do with guns.

Well, it sorta does. You can't have shootings without guns - and if the guy had been running around with a knife, you wouldn't have 59 people dead.

>What if it was a bomb.

Then we might make C4, TNT and Semtex a little harder to get, to cut down on the number of evil people who can make bombs.

>What if some one poisoned food or medicine.

Then we might make VX, Strychnine and Ricin harder to get, to cut down on the number of evil people who can poison others.

>Remember Tylonal?

Yep. As a result they improved tamper seals.

Thank goodess that right after the poisonings, the response was not "this is not the time to talk about poisonings and how to stop them! All the families who lost loved ones need time to heal, and all the families who will lose loved ones need time to prepare." And thank goodness that, right after the poisonings, the response to the deaths was not "this has NOTHING TO DO with poison, and there's nothing we can do to stop poisonings."

>Step back and look at the larger picture of the society we are building. That is
>where the problems and ultimately the solutions lie.

Overall, the violence in society is decreasing, not increasing. (Check out violent-crime stats over the last 50 years.) It just seems like it's increasing because we see it all the time; the push media makes it seem like there is violence around every corner.

Does society have problems? It sure does. It always has, it always will - because it is made up of people, and people resist any attempt to mold them into a perfect form. But we still have laws, and we still try to protect the weaker members of society from those who would harm them.

[RMK 3]

For comparison, I just searched the number of gun-related deaths in the UK for Sunday 1st October. As we're 1/5 of your population, would have needed 1/5 the shootings to tie. However I couldn't find any for our tally.

Looks like US wins; great "shootin" guys; USA, USA, USA

In my quick search, I did find this one on how guns kill more kids than flu in the US.

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/parenting/kids/the-gun-massacre-america-isnt-talking-about/news-story/2ce3d693d182cb31ca7dbab186b2564c

"Pain is the best instructor, but no one wants to attend his classes"

[jakee 1,256]

nolhtairt

There are pics of him at Trump/KKK/Nazi protests already out. Try again. Take those blinders off. You're not a horse.

Um, some photos of a generic middle aged white guy with a beard at a Trump protest are already out, courtesy of a massive group of internet trolls actively searching for anything that would support the assumption that he's a liberal terrorist. Can you honestly look at those photos and tell me with certainty that guy in the pink shirt is Steve Paddock? Seriously?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[billvon 2,400]

>You don't have to be a white conservative republican to amass a bunch of guns.

Nor do you have to be a black liberal democrat to shoot at them.

[gowlerk 1,914]

Nevermind all the death. Everyone has to die sometime. Guns are effing cool. The bigger they are and the faster they spit death out a barrel the cooler they are. Europeans, Canadians, Australians, and all those others may be willing to let bureaucrats and politicians pass gun control laws. But the USA is all about freedom. At any cost. So what if a few dozen toddlers a year accidentally kill themselves or their siblings? Lock up their parents for being careless. What really matters is that Americans are free to enjoy playing with the toys of war. As long as they stand at attention and salute the flag that is.

And that my friends is only one small example of exceptionalism. God Bless America.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[Phil1111 911]

jakee

***There are pics of him at Trump/KKK/Nazi protests already out. Try again. Take those blinders off. You're not a horse.

Um, some photos of a generic middle aged white guy with a beard at a Trump protest are already out, courtesy of a massive group of internet trolls actively searching for anything that would support the assumption that he's a liberal terrorist. Can you honestly look at those photos and tell me with certainty that guy in the pink shirt is Steve Paddock? Seriously?

LE and major media certainly has made no such connection. Right Wing wants to start a anti trump spin. Nothing new.

Bring on the twitter, facebook, trolls. Fake News needs rebroadcast in order for disinformation to spread.

[gowlerk 1,914]

Maybe the dude just hated the crap that now passes for "country music".

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[GeorgiaDon 340]

Quote

It doesn't have any thing to do with guns.

That's true in the same way that skydiving doesn't have anything to do with parachutes. After all we could just set up box rigs or a giant net. To argue that tools have nothing to do with the ability to efficiently perform tasks is disingenuous to say the least.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[DanG 1]

Be careful. If you keep making assumptions to score political points before all the facts are known rushmc will start cursing at you. He hates that.

Hmm... (crickets)

- Dan G

[normiss 622]

Jason Aldean is pretty good on his country genre though.

[normiss 622]

Americans killed on 9/11: 2,996
Days it took Congress to authorize war:3

Americans killed by guns in 2017: 11,652
Days in 2017 so far:275

[normiss 622]

Vegas shooter's gun arsenal is "a right," but medical treatment for his 500+ survivors is merely "a privilege."

Some of those victims could end up in financial ruin over being innocently shot.
Some of the families of the dead will have to spend $20,000 to bury the dead.

Only in American...

[RiggerLee 61]

Human society.

What makes people healthy? I wish I could remember the name of the study. I saw this years ago when I was a kid. I don't think it could ever be done today because it was animal cruelty. Monkeys or apes I don't recall. They really are a good analog for humans. They are prone to all the neuroses of humans. That's why they never do well in captivity. They go insane. Most apes in captivity are in some way mentally ill. In any case the study involved child hood development. I involved raising baby apes in all different ways. Basically they were able to reproduce at will any type or neuroses they wished.

I look at our society, our culture and I think there is an argument that we are raising generations of sociopaths that are disconnected from their actions. And then look at the division in our country. It's like in war where you have ministries of propaganda dehumanizing the enemy. They are fascist. They are biggits. They are raciest. They don't deserve free speech. Their words alone are an attack. Is it surprising that people can justify to them selves physical violence against these people that they disagree with?

I think you will find as things come out that he was politically motivated.

People talk about means, motive, and opportunity.

The country is full of soft targets short of a fundamental change in our culture I don't think you could remove opportunity. No more crowds at sporting events, all broadcast. No more concerts. Mo more centralized malls. I mean is that a world that you would want to live in?

People think they want to attack means. That if you could take away the means that this problem would go away. First there is the fallisy that you can take away the means. The idea that you could ever get rid of guns. France has some of the strictest gun laws around and the people there had no problem getting AK's for the attacks there. Look at how many people were slaughtered at that concert. That's in a country where there is absolutely no way for a person to own an AK. And contrary to popular beleafe it's not hard to build a gun. The 3D printed things are silly because the people doing them are idiots. Most of the parts are available off the shelf. There is no need to try to print a barrel. And Metal printing is coming. We are looking at a system right not. And that assumes that removing guns from our society would stop this. If he's filled a small plane, he was a pilot, with a small bomb and improvised napalm he would have done even more damage. And that's not even being creative. The use of guns is a result of the media attention that has been devoted to shootings. The Boston bombers didn't use their guns in the attack.

Their is no practical way to stop people from doing hard if they are intent on killing people and not concerned with their own survival. Motivation is the most elusive leg you could attack. I do think that it is an indicator of the health of the society. I think it's a product of detachment, of divisiveness, and the stardom created by the media. I don't think these things will end till the society as a whole heals it self.

Lee

Lee
[email protected]
www.velocitysportswear.com

[normiss 622]

Maybe it's because we insist on being a nation of war and death.
We spend more on that than anything else.
We permit violence on TV instead of love and nudity.
Parents prefer to abuse and physically beat their children instead of communication with them.
We prefer guns and the resulting deaths over peace.

What the hell is wrong with our nation???

It's beyond time to simply accept this and turn the other cheek.
It's time to change it.
It's time to stop it.

NO reason a citizen should have access to military type weapons period.
ENOUGH ALREADY.

[kallend 1,625]

There's an excellent article in this month's Scientific American that basically refutes every one of your assertions, with citations to the research that backs it up.

And yes, research into gun violence continues despite NRA and GOP efforts to muzzle it.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.