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lewmonst

NO on Prop 8 (California)

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Heber J. Grant was the last church president to practice plural marriage. He was married once in 1877 and twice more in 1884. The church banned plural marriages in 1890. So yes, maybe not as "early 1800's" as I stated.

The point that I am trying to make is, that whether you are gay or a mormon, society makes laws and passes them based upon the morals and standards of a majority. I don't blame the gays for wanting to get married. I just think they need to respect the laws of the land and the fact that they were outvoted. As we see in this discussion mormonism has almost as much prejudice and stigmatism associated with it as homosexuality. So I really doubt that the majority of people would let what a bunch of bigamist "non christians" say affect their decision.

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We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.



I agree.

Blues,
Dave
"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

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There is no right to get married for anyone, it is a privilege just like driving. If you meet the requirements to drive, you get a license and you are granted permission to drive. Same with marriage,... If you meet the requirements to be married you can get a license and you are granted permission to marry. no difference, this is equal for everyone.



Which state is it that asks sexual orientation prior to granting a driver's licence? And how do you figure marriage isn't an inalienable right contained within the sets of rights "liberty and the pursuit of happiness"?

Blues,
Dave
"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

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I really don't see what all the whining is about since our country will eventually accept gay marriage, just wait and see.

That and a host of other things.:|



You're right....Just like allowing women and blacks the right to vote, and a host of other civil rights victories.

How do you think your grandchildren will view your stand on this issue?

It's is inevitable
"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."

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Yeah, and those women and blacks were a bunch of whiners too! [:/]

The irony is that I truly believe Prop 8 will force the issue to a national level MUCH faster ...........


I agree!! Let's keep this thread going!!:)
"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."

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What does sexual orientation have to do with getting a drivers license? All I said was that there are requirements for both, if you can not meet those requirements then you don't get a license. If you can't meet the requirements you don't change the requirements,...

If a person needs to wear glasses in order to see, then they have to wear them to get a drivers license. You don't change the rules.

--------------------------------------------------
I am a greek midget

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What does sexual orientation have to do with getting a drivers license? All I said was that there are requirements for both, if you can not meet those requirements then you don't get a license. If you can't meet the requirements you don't change the requirements,...

If a person needs to wear glasses in order to see, then they have to wear them to get a drivers license. You don't change the rules.




And if you're black and can't vote, just be black and go home!How dare you suggest changing the rules!!:S
Yes, the rules will change...It will take people brave enough to make history, just as it always has, to make civil rights history.
"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."

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I still don't see how this has anything to do with civil rights


Marriage is a civil matter.
If you don't get it, it's because you don't want to.
"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."

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I still don't see how this has anything to do with civil rights


Marriage is a civil matter.
If you don't get it, it's because you don't want to.



No, gays wishing to be joined legally is a civil matter. Marriage is a holy union recognized by many religions. Marriage is also recognized by many governments.

If you dont see the difference it is because YOU dont want to.
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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I still don't see how this has anything to do with civil rights


Marriage is a civil matter.
If you don't get it, it's because you don't want to.



No, gays wishing to be joined legally is a civil matter. Marriage is a holy union recognized by many religions. Marriage is also recognized by many governments.

If you dont see the difference it is because YOU dont want to.



Looks like we need a definition of marriage we can all agree on!

I'd suggest the one that worked just fine for centuries, in a multitude of cultures.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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>You got outvoted.

Blacks got outvoted in the Loving vs Virginia case. The vast majority of the state did not want to allow blacks to marry whites; it was an abomination against God, and their highest court agreed. It took the US Supreme Court to force Virginia to allow blacks to marry whoever they chose. Remarkably, the US did not collapse.

I fear it will take the same sort of action this time.

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>You got outvoted.

Blacks got outvoted in the Loving vs Virginia case. The vast majority of the state did not want to allow blacks to marry whites; it was an abomination against God, and their highest court agreed. It took the US Supreme Court to force Virginia to allow blacks to marry whoever they chose. Remarkably, the US did not collapse.

I fear it will take the same sort of action this time.


I don't fear it. Even as a judicial conservative I recognize that this is the purpose of the supreme court. It isn't even close.
PS In my country the provincial appeal courts were slowly lining up, and no one was of any doubt which way the Fed supreme court was going to go when the Federal gov did the logical thing.

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Marriage is a legal union, the only legal union that currently universally recognized, with all the rights, priveleges and obligations that go along with it.

You, and others who oppose giving gays the right to marry are the ones who are trying to redefine marriage. It has never been a strictly religious institution and it never will be.

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Marriage is a legal union, the only legal union that currently universally recognized, with all the rights, priveleges and obligations that go along with it.

You, and others who oppose giving gays the right to marry are the ones who are trying to redefine marriage. It has never been a strictly religious institution and it never will be.



I understant your points but in the respect of who is trying to redefine marriage, I believe that it is the gay community trying to do that, not as you post.

I do not oppose gays being givin legal standing under the law. In fact, i have stated many times on this thread that very point. But marriage is a union referenced in many religions. All of the religioins that I know of do not say marriage between same sex partners. That is where I am coming from
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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> All of the religioins that I know of do not say marriage between same sex partners.

The Unitarian Universalists, the United Church Of Christ, the Anglican Church of Canada, the Metropolitan Community Church and the United Church of Canada all allow same-sex marriages. The Reform and Reconstructionist movements within Judaism allow same sex marriage; the Conservative faction allows rabbis to choose for themselves whether to marry gays.

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So you think they should be given equal yet sperate rights?



Play word games if you want. I think they should have the same exact legal standing. It just would not be marriage.

If that is what you call equal but seperate? then yes.
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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