Secondary lower performance canopy?

[PhreeZone 15]

Just curious, how many people have a second canopy that they bring out for times when the traffic condtions are not condusive to going big under their normal canopies. I'm thinking of bigways, boogies, student jumps and other situations where you are doing a freefall jump followed by having to fly a pattern with people other then swoopers.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[blitzkrieg 0]

i understand your reasons for this poll, and actually think it's a good idea in general.

although, i think it is much more important for people to have the ability to just fly their little swoopy canopies in a straight in conservative approach, or one with minimal turns, and recognize the times it is a good idea to avoid traffic complications by initiating big speed inducing turns, etc.

you don't always need to fly balls to the wall... but, i'm probably just waisting my breath

[Canuck 0]

Agreed. You don't need a slow canopy to fly slow. I prefer the way my Velo lands straight to the way a Manta does. Big slow canopies can cause collisions just as well as small fast ones. Nobody was flying small shit in the latest Eloy incident.

No offense to the poster in another thread who said he puts away his fast canopies for bigways and pulls out his Stiletto, but that makes no sense to me. Can't you fly a Xaos in brakes and land it straight in?

Canopies aren't the problem. People flyig them shitty is the problem.

Canuck

[headoverheels 291]

I bought a Pilot for big ways, the 400 in particular. My other canopies are not as reliable for opening on heading. I've used the Katana on 120 ways, but will use the Pilot on anything larger than 40 in the future, even though it doesn't flare so well.

[phoenixlpr 0]

I have a Pilot150, I use it for wingsuit jumps. So there only one size between my canopies. My Pilot flares very well .

[Tonto 1]

I have a Safire 109 as my slow, big forgiving canopy, loaded to about 1.8. I use it for wingsuit dives and any larger formation jumps I do. It also serves as an AFF back to back.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[yardhippie 0]

I am considering this now.
Ive just ordered a new container that will fit my main properly, but Im not interested in ditching my current container.

I was considering another high performance non-CB canopy, but why not something a little more docile, say if I'd like to do wingsuit one day.

Going back to a Nitro is a consideration, or even a Sabre 2. Im still a ways away from deciding, but its something Ive had in the back of my mind.

Goddam dirty hippies piss me off! ~GFD
"What do I get for closing your rig?" ~ me
"Anything you want." ~ female skydiver
Mohoso Rodriguez #865

[Spizzzarko 0]

Yup I got one. It is called a velocity 96! hahahahahaaaa Just kidding. This weekend I got a new infinity rig and it is sized for a larger canopy to accomodate my all sail JVX. I can easiliy put in a sabre 2 135-170 in that container if I wanted to get another canopy. The thought has crossed my mind, but I find that I am able to negotiate traffic just fine with my JVX and Velocity. I have used my 96 velo on 20 way jumps and working jumps.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

I have multiple canopies:

- JVX 87
- Velocity 103
- Samurai 136
- Spectre 150

and can choose the right tool for the job at hand.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

I actually have a few, but my most-used "secondary canopy" is a Sabre2 97. Much less of a handfull in traffic than my Velo 84.

Chuck

[chris74 0]

Hi Birds,
Agreed, for me it is exactly the same thing as the weapons .
Blue skies
Chris

[morris 0]

I´m using a Springo 140 ( with a smaller slider - opens almost like a BlackJack :-) ) for wingsuit and tight demolandingareas...

[diablopilot 2]

Quote

Agreed. You don't need a slow canopy to fly slow. I prefer the way my Velo lands straight to the way a Manta does. Big slow canopies can cause collisions just as well as small fast ones. Nobody was flying small shit in the latest Eloy incident.

No offense to the poster in another thread who said he puts away his fast canopies for bigways and pulls out his Stiletto, but that makes no sense to me. Can't you fly a Xaos in brakes and land it straight in?

Canopies aren't the problem. People flyig them shitty is the problem.

Canuck

Yes I can and have used my Xaos's for bigways, landed them straight in, in half brakes, in baseball diamonds and on demos.

I choose now to pull out the Stiletto because it gives me more options.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[speedy 0]

Well if anyone wants to swap my Icarus VX extreme 99 sqft for a Spectre 120 I would be happy to do it. I have wanted a second lower performance canopy for a while.
The VX is just so damm hard to sell.
I would of course keep my Velocity for the hop n pops where I can swoop without any traffic. I just don't like swooping in traffic because the ones below you can be so erratic. They are generally not erratic, but it only takes one.... it just not worth risking. I have always thought like this, not just because of the recent incidents.

Dave

Fallschirmsport Marl

[billvon 2,400]

>You don't need a slow canopy to fly slow.

Right, but larger canopies can fly slower than smaller canopies. And when they first open, larger canopies start out flying more slowly, thus giving you more time to react - which is why many people (myself included) use a larger canopy for bigways.

>No offense to the poster in another thread who said he puts away his fast
> canopies for bigways and pulls out his Stiletto, but that makes no sense
>to me. Can't you fly a Xaos in brakes and land it straight in?

Yes you can. I recall putting a Xaos 95 loaded at about 2.1 to 1 into a tiny field in Alaska downwind. But I was wishing I had my Pilot 150 instead the whole time. I could probably save my life with the Xaos in that situation 9 times out of 10, but I'd prefer the 99 times out of 100 I'd get with the Pilot 150

[garywainwright 0]

I use a Pilot if i'm wearing multiple cameras or filming bigways - particulalry if i'm going to be below at breakoff. This is both for the openings and the slow flight characteristics.
Seems lots of people like the Pilot in their 2nd rig!

http://www.garywainwright.co.uk

Instagram gary_wainwright_uk

[Canuck 0]

Yes, I agree that there are better choices in terms of openings on big-ways, but I'm pretty sure, in light of recent events, the point of this poll has more to do with landing in heavy traffic. Same goes for tight spots, demos, etc. My point is that I think it creates a false sense of security to say that we wouldn't have canopy collisions over the landing area if people up-sized their mains. It's not the parachutes, it's how people are flying them. And sure we can say that there were fewer canopy collisions near landing 20 years ago when most canopies were 200+ square feet, but I attribute that to the fact that almost everyone with 300 jumps now consider themselves swoopers, and pull some kind of turn on landing.

Canuck

[dharma1976 0]

yes but just like there are tools that are appropriate in certain situations is it not so bad to have multiple tools for different situations in this case...

I would much prefer the range of canopy that I have in my Crossfire than that of my FX in a bigway situation...

even though I could fly the FX in the bigway situation, I have much more range in the Crossfire...

Cheers

Dave

http://www.skyjunky.com

CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

Quote

Yes, I agree that there are better choices in terms of openings on big-ways, but I'm pretty sure, in light of recent events, the point of this poll has more to do with landing in heavy traffic.

Actually, it's not just the landing part; it's the entire canopy ride down. Nothing pisses me off more than when toggle-whipping morons spiral their canopies down through traffic in crowded skies only to then set up in deep brakes at 500 feet and sashay down right in the way of the guys under smaller canopies who would have easilly been first down and out of the way otherwise. It's not a race to the ground, people. PARTICULARLY when there is are a bunch of other people in the sky. Why not just open at a reasonable altitude, then let your canopy fly down at it's own pace, staying in your quadrant and making only gentle turns upwind to avoid other canopies until you are setup to enter the pattern?

I will be keeping a very keen eye open this upcoming week during our big-way sequentials down here at Z-hills (and Flock and Dock running concurrently). I hope the axe is very sharp when it comes to dismissing people for stupid canopy tricks.

[Canuck 0]

I agree with everything you're saying, same for JP, Bill, etc. But I still believe it would be the wrong course of action to blame recent events on canopy choice rather than pilot error.

Something else to consider. For the last 3 seasons, I've done between 350 and 450 jumps per year, pretty much all on Velo 96s. I feel nice and current on the canopy, have taken it on several demos, jumped at a pile of DZs, landed out, competed under it, etc. The huge majority of the jumps I use it for each year, however, are not hop 'n pops intended just for swooping. If I start using a different canopy for AFF jumps, tandem videos, group skydives, etc. instead of having 400 Velo landings a year, I'm going to have 50 to 100. And I'm not the only one who would be in that boat. Scary. I've said since I started jumping Velos that I would quit as soon as I'm not doing a minimum of 300 jumps a year.

Canuck

[blitzkrieg 0]

exactly what i'm getting at.

and Chuck, we're on the same page.

---

but here's another question. somebody who upsizes for said jump, say from a velo 96 to a stiletto 120...

will it make any difference in the safety of the load if they still decide to hook a 270 for landing?

you're either going to land conservatively, or you're not. doesn't make much difference what canopy you're flying under. if you're dangerous, you're dangerous.

[bak_peter 0]

Quote

Nothing pisses me off more than when toggle-whipping morons spiral their canopies down through traffic in crowded skies only to then set up in deep brakes at 500 feet and sashay down right in the way of the guys under smaller canopies who would have easilly been first down and out of the way otherwise. It's not a race to the ground, people.

Well said, these kind of people are the ones to look out fore

[billvon 2,400]

>My point is that I think it creates a false sense of security to say that
>we wouldn't have canopy collisions over the landing area if people up-sized
>their mains.

On the converse, it is completely inaccurate to say that a pattern full of 2:1 loaded canopies is just as safe as a pattern full of 1:1 loaded canopies given the same skill in the pilots. Humans have a minimum reaction time, and slower canopies allow the pilot more time to make decisions when the shit hits the fan - and the slower speeds make inevitable mistakes more survivable. (When the shit does NOT hit the fan, both can be equally safe - but then, if nothing bad ever happened, there would be no incidents.)

Choose the canopy for the job it is required to do. If the job in question is landing you at a drop zone where the largest load is 20 and the landing area is wide open, a Xaos-27 88 might be the ticket. If the job is opening on heading on a 500-way and landing you in a soccer field with 100 other people, then a Pilot 150 might be the best choice. Canopy designers can work wonders nowadays, but no matter how good any given canopy is (and no matter how good the pilot is) it's not the right solution for every situation.

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

Just like we have in wingsuit instruction, I believe there definitely ought to be a common-sense rule for big-way stuff in relation to canopy selection. "Yes, you can be on the record attempt if you meet the following criteria: freefall qualifications, currency, appropriately sized canopy."

Chuck

[Canuck 0]

Your points are all well taken, Bill. I just hope mine are too.

Canuck