T.I.'s Do you or would you allow your camera flyer to grip the students chest strap on exit

[freefalle 0]

Just posing a question that was asked to me, curious to get the input of others. Why would you allow this practice? or why not?

[BIGUN 1,053]

That would go in the "No" column.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[FreeflyGoat 0]

No, I dont need a camera flyer f'ing up my exit. Once I have a drouge out and have done my handle checks I have alowed a camera flyer (and TI) whom I trust to dock on my students hands but not on their harness.

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goat
derka jerka bukkake jihad

[aironscott 3]

Depends on the camera person.

There are a few out there that I've worked with that I enjoy doing some fun stuff with. You know who you are (Pope, Roland, Ash, Hoyt, Willspeed, etc.)Anybody but Strauss....
But for the most part I'd rather keep it simple and just do it by the numbers. I get more scared the first few times I jump with an unfamiliar camera man than I ever do jumping with a student.
If it makes you uncomfortable on any level, just say no. When you are feeling stress, the students feel it as well.

Aaron

“God Damn Mountain Dew MotherFuckers!”

[AggieDave 6]

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Depends on the camera person.

I still say no. A visiting jumper came through a while back, who is HIGHLY experienced as a flier and video guy. I'm not going to mention his name, but its a name you would all know. He briefed me the TI on how the tandem jump was going to go (instead of me briefing him), but with his personality, that's how it was going to be. I smiled and let it slide.

He was all over me, my student and under us holding on to straps and such during the exit, the jump, all the way till I waved off.

What happened? Well, he knocked my right lateral from the student's harness to my harness loose. Some of the rest of the student harness was knocked around as well.

When we got down I asked my student "how was the jump?" Instead of getting the typical "man, that was great, it was scary when we exited, but man it was really great one we were out of the door, etc" I got the answer "man, that camera guy was all over us..."

That day reminded me that I should stick by what I know is right and what I know is safe. That also told me to go ahead and stand my ground when it comes to my students, even if I've got some 10,000+ jumper telling me "it'll be ok, I do it this way all the time."

The obvious safety aspects aside, that was all about showing off for the video and the student. The video was too busy and looked like crap. I really felt sorry for the video that student paid for and recieved.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Peej 0]

Here's an answer from a relatively new video guy's perspective: i wouldn't want to take a grip on the harness. I can keep the pair in frame and relativey close right through the exit, i don't feel the need to touch them.

Advertisio Rodriguez / Sky

[billeisele 122]

No.

You might suggest that if he needs assistance maintaining proximity on exit you would be happy to grip his chest strap.

Give one city to the thugs so they can all live together. I vote for Chicago where they have strict gun laws.

[divnswoop 0]

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No.

You might suggest that if he needs assistance maintaining proximity on exit............

.....that he go get more skydives before he films tandems.

[crutch 0]

not at our dz....ever!

[bluskidave 0]

NO!

[riggerrob 558]

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That would go in the "No" column.

[freefalle 0]

exactly the answers i hoped to get. at least we can all agree about one thing

[jdthomas 0]

NO! no one goes under or above the tandem.... Don't let anyone grab you at any point, there is no reason fr it and the video is not going to be any cooler if someone does!
Joe

www.greenboxphotography.com

[skydiverton 0]

NO

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Using your droque to gain stability is a bad habit,
Especially when you are jumping a sport rig

[darnknit 0]

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Why would you allow this practice? or why not?

from the aspect of safety, it is a bad idea. you could do it a million times without a problem, but if something goes wrong, it will go horribly wrong.

from the aspect of liability, it is professional suicide. in any lawsuit involving such behavior, the "deep pockets" will throw you under a bus.

seems like alot of risk(death, dismemberment, end of a career) for not much reward(garaunteed tight shot on exit).

pulling is cool. keep it in the skin

[rehmwa 2]

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You might suggest that if he needs assistance maintaining proximity on exit............

.....that he go get more skydives before he films tandems.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[flipper 0]

NO

[lug 4]

No.

Memento Mori

[Shyandinnocent 0]

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You might suggest that if he needs assistance maintaining proximity on exit............

.....that he go get more skydives before he films tandems.

*laugh* and nodding in agreement...
Not a TM but a camera person, and from the safety point of view, don't wabnt your student freakin out and holding on to any part of my gear (cutaway/reserve handles). HHow would I assplain that away to my CI?

It's never too late for a low turn!

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

Lot's of "no's" here, but I say "yes." I am not concerned about getting zoo'ed on exit by any of the guys that I allow to exit in this manner. On the contrary, I have even used it as a tool to get better exit shots from some video guys who simply lacked the timing to get a decent first half of the skydive. Criticize if you like, but hey, I am comfortable with it. The "in your face" exit shots you can get with it are fantastic.

Chuck

[GreenMachine 0]

I guess it all comes down to skill and comfort level...I am a moderately experienced camera flyer and a newer tandem master.

I have left docked on a TM's hand, never a chest strap, but as a camera flyer I would have no problems doing it, however as a newer tandem master I would never let anyone grab me on exit when carrying a passenger. My opinion might change with experience and skill but that is my 2 cents for now.

One last thing, I very much agree that the face shot in the door right before exit and right on the "GO" count are priceless!!! For many it is a total 'come to Jesus' moment and the faces they make are great.

When I fly camera I always try to get that shot, my technique is to squat down on the step outside, use both hands on the door to hang out, and put my face in front of the passenger's face. With my .5 diamond I get a good shot, I can see the TM's count, and on the launch on just ease off on my back and get a nice fall away shot with the plane in the background.

Rigger, Skydiver, BASE Jumper, Retired TM

[kwmontreal 0]

Not in this life time!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------JUMP SAFE!

[NelKel 0]

Really depends on the situation. I would allow a jumper I know who has experience videoing tandems, to take a gripped exit on my students chest strap, IF I had confidence of its success, and we both knew, and understood the diveflow. Also with the passenger in agreement. Anyway YMMV

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Someone dies, someone says how stupid, someone says it was avoidable, someone says how to avoid it, someone calls them an idiot, someone proposes rule chan

[NelKel 0]

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Someone dies, someone says how stupid, someone says it was avoidable, someone says how to avoid it, someone calls them an idiot, someone proposes rule chan

[Fast 0]

It really isn't neccesary to take good pictures / get good video.

Like others have said, if the person needs to hold on they need to learn more before shooting tandem video.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka