DB Cooper

[georger 197]

Until he is officially eliminated by the Bureau as a suspect, (with definitive proof presented) I will continue to support Kenny Christiansen as the most likely so far.

No you won't. You dont have the psychological
makeup for that. Rd says you will do otherwise,
at the first or second skirt that passes by!

[georger 197]

Quote

Quote

I've converted the entire first thread on the DB Cooper subject into a 900 page PDF. And after all the threats and warnings, etc about copyright violation, I don't think I will make it available to anyone at this time, unless Dropzone gives me written permission to do so.

Quote

'Trust is a hard thing to come by these days...'

Kurt Russell, The Thing

Why I did the PDF: It's a lot easier to review and research this huge amount of information by clicking 'next page' in an Adobe PDF than it is to wade through them on a website. Plus, you get to use the whole screen and it reads much faster and quicker. Also...you can print them all up, or just the pages you want, and view them at your leisure.

The only thing I couldn't do was enable all the hyperlinks. There were over 5,000 of them, and a few had problems. This is understandable. However, it's still a good document, especially with all those posts by SnowBanned and Ckret. As long as I don't make it available publicly or distribute it, I am not breaking copyright law. It's strictly for private use and research. I wouldn't mind making it available if I was assured of not being sued on a C violation. I understand those rules and I support them completely.

Geoff Gray's 'galleys'.

That was a mistake by Skipp Porteous. He meant a copy of the book. Several people have one, not just him. If you check the book's Amazon listing, you'll see there are already at least three reviews posted on the book. And these reviews are done by special folks at Amazon who are allowed to view the book in advance. So some copies ARE distributed before the actual release, just not a lot of them.

I agree that no one has the uncorrected galleys, as those are only distributed in-house by the publisher and between the author and the publisher. I should have corrected Skipp on that right away. My fault for repeating that when I knew he really meant 'the book'.

The excerpts from 'Skyjack' that I've personally seen came from the actual upcoming book on an iPad via Alex Hannaford, the Brit journalist who was allowed to have a copy.

I had to promise not to reveal the content to anyone in exchange for the privelege of viewing it. I will say this:

I was completely satisfied with the way Geoff Gray handled the KC thing. Come on, you KNOW that's the first thing I searched out in that book. That, and the term 'Mucklow'. And that's all you'll get out of me about it right now. Once you see the book for yourself, you'll understand what I mean, and that's not long to wait. Maybe nine weeks, I think. The day that 'Skyjack' hits the stands, I'm going to post up a glowing review about it on my column at MSNBC/Newsvine and give it five stars. It's not just great, it's a soul-searching personal journey and a literary work of art. I hope Gray gets a Pulitzer. They should have given him one on the New York Magazine article. Had that article appeared in Reader's Digest, Time, or People Magazine, I think he would have received one.

I don't give a rat's behind whether some producer in Hollywood likes my work. I'm a publisher first, and an author second. The reason I'm writing a screenplay on the KC thing is FOR FUN. Yes...it is actually FUN to write them, especially using the screenplay software from Celtx. No one is going to buy that screenplay. I know that. We're selling the film rights, not a screenplay. I just want one for my office, that's all. The guys in New York who want the rights already have a screenwriter, and he's done scripts for Miramax Films.

Yeah, yeah. I changed the opening scene on the KC script to fueling from a tanker truck.

When the going gets tough...the tough rock. I've always been a big believer.

http://youtu.be/xtqy4DTHGqg

Post this 20 more times.

I dont think people saw - read it before ...

Maybe just tip another one and go to bed?

[sailshaw 0]

Robert99: I knew it would be too technical for you to understand. You should just disregard my posts and stay in the dark with your head in the sand. You are wrong on just about all your nay-saying. Get with it and get over it.

Bob

[377 21]

Georger wrote:

Quote

Now talk to me about: "no position fix".

.

You do make a very good counter argument Georger. It is influencing me. I like intelligent dialogue. It sure beats all the sniping and character asassination that seems to dominate here.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[sailshaw 0]

Georger: Now this is the type of discussion that alows us to get to what could have happened.

Georger writes: "As it happened, the jump occurred in the vicinity of
Vancover-Portland - the first and largest landmark
south of SEA until points further south.
Now talk to me about: "no position fix"."

Now we are on the right track. How does DB know when to jump? When he sees the glow in the clouds over Vancouver and Portland. Those of us that are pilots have seen this many times before and it works because there are no other sources of glow as there are no other cities south of Seattle big enough to cause it at that time in the flight. Navigation was not that hard and DB had plenty of windows to look out from and watch for the cloud glow.

Anyway, good thinking Georger and 377. Do we have any more positive thinkers?

Bob

[Farflung 0]

Another Hollywood cliché that people actually believe happened at bomb release. The cross check of ‘bombs away’ was to make sure that there were no hangers in the bomb bay that could get hit by or strike the bomb bay doors when they were closed. So another crewmember would visually confirm that the bombs were away and then the doors would be closed. I know, yawwwwwnnnn.

Another Hollywood favorite was to show the crosshairs of the bombsight passing over the target area and the Bombardier spotting the fix at the final moment then pickle the load with the before mentioned battle cry. I’m sure that did happen on a few occasions but there is a lot of hamming up of the story going on. Just like people refueling aircraft with a can and funnel or pilots talking to hijackers, the true story is simply too dry for some.

Since there are so many Hams on this thread (ARRL and theatric) how about using the airport with the same identifier? OK then, it’s off to Hamburg, Germany (cue goosestep march audio).

http://www.worldweatheronline.com/weather.aspx?q=HAM

This is a WX forecast for Hamtown which extends into the frigid month of July. You can see that out of 15 days, two are forecast to have little cloud cover. Seven days are forecast to have over 50% cloud cover in the deepest and darkest of summer. Hey, I’m starting to think that those crosshairs may have been filled with fluffy, white clouds most of the time during WWII. So what up Homeskillet?

These bomber formations would navigate using a variety of techniques to include radio, celestial and time. Radio was range limited and celestial was labor intensive and could only provide three fixes per hour, leaving time. Yep, after making a ‘cell’ fix the crew would make a time hack and use ‘time over target’ to establish bomb release. I told a WWII veteran that the technique appeared to be highly inaccurate and asked how effective he thought it was. His response was “Sprechen zie Deutsch?”

Crow does not taste at all like chicken by the way. So why did Cooper ‘Hang out’ in the aircraft for such an extended period of time (my definition) after getting the aft stairs open?

[Robert99 37]

Quote

Georger: Now this is the type of discussion that alows us to get to what could have happened.

Georger writes: "As it happened, the jump occurred in the vicinity of
Vancover-Portland - the first and largest landmark
south of SEA until points further south.
Now talk to me about: "no position fix"."

Now we are on the right track. How does DB know when to jump? When he sees the glow in the clouds over Vancouver and Portland. Those of us that are pilots have seen this many times before and it works because there are no other sources of glow as there are no other cities south of Seattle big enough to cause it at that time in the flight. Navigation was not that hard and DB had plenty of windows to look out from and watch for the cloud glow.

Anyway, good thinking Georger and 377. Do we have any more positive thinkers?

Bob

Sailshaw, You continue to ignore the simple fact that the flight crew (those three fellows in the cockpit, which is located in the forward part of the aircraft) has been quoted by several authors as stating they could not see the Portland/Vancouver area lights as they pass overhead. The reason was several layers of clouds plus a complete overcast.

Consequently, Cooper's only navigational instruments were a wrist watch (assuming he was wearing one) and whatever was going on inside his head. Yet you claim that he was able to land a round canopy parachute adjacent to the Portland Airport's parking lot, retrieve his car, and drive off into whatever.

Your theory of navigation is novel. Perhaps you should open Sailshaw's School of Aerial Navigation. In this day and age you might even get rich. Your students could forget about the need for navigational radio aids, compasses, celestial navigation instruments, etc.

But Amelia, may she rest in peace, would definitely not serve as a spokeswoman for you school, assuming she was still around and able to do so.

Robert Nicholson

[Farflung 0]

That’s right it has been published for everyone to read here:

http://huntfordbcooper.com/what-you-should-know-a-primer

None other than the voice of reason for every season, the cyber trooper for DB Cooper, the King of the disinformation wring and the Mayor Soothsayer….. Sluggo Monster.

I have used his website to peer deep into the dry, unadulterated facts and take a deep breath of sanity on many occasions.

Then I go back to the Bigfoot and Roswell UFO sites because they are more exciting and suspenseful than reading unedited transcripts or maps (alleged to be altered however).

Besides, I was able to purchase some wicked superb research materials on the other sites which Sluggo refuses to offer. Poser.

[377 21]

Farflung wrote:

Quote

So why did Cooper ‘Hang out’ in the aircraft for such an extended period of time (my definition) after getting the aft stairs open?

Wouldn't you have liked to hang out with Tina for a while? Why rush things?

You didn't have flight attendants in Buffs? 9 hours in a noisy smelly plane with a bunch of guys? Why did you prefer this to four stripes and a crew of nubile stews plotting to be the next Mrs Farflung? Your judgment baffles me.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 21]

From the ever helpful and diligent Snowmman:



While we discussed this letter extensively (remember my Treasure Island reference :) ), Geoffrey Gray found a
news article with a detail I had not seen before. I don't believe it has ever been mentioned before, although it
was in at least one news article.

news article from

http://huntfordbcooper.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/D.B.-Coooper-letter-to-Times.pdf

it came with a code. The Seattle Times letter also had a code, but different numbers.


7698QA2753

Carr had said he was going to see if he could get us a copy of this letter. He never did.

The full letter contents, and my Treasure Island post :) is at

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3370805;search_string=%20%26quot%3Btreasure%20island%26quot%3B;guest=79771916#3370805377

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 21]

More from Snow:

This photo appears to have been taken post Cooper hijack.
The airstairs fabric is torn on one side, much like the known video snap/news photos that shows the torn
airstairs. Note the fabric is torn on the near side, not the far side

A Northwest plane is in the background. The photo seems from the right time period?

Sluggo will like this...it allows much more examination of the claim that the airstairs were damaged on landing
(they weren't? only damage seems to be the fabric)

Note when we discussed this before: not all of the airstairs seemed to have the fabric. I've seen pics with and
without.

Here's a detail: we discussed the lights on the airstairs a lot. You can see that the side lights on the steps
are on in the picture.

I wonder if they were on when Cooper jumped? Not clear what triggers on/off. I think we went thru the exact
detail on number of lights and where, on the steps, from the 727 design articles.

from
http://huntfordbcooper.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/airstairs1.jpg

That's a 1.5MB image, best quality. Attached is a compressed version that's DZ-postable.

attached

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 197]

only damage seems to be the fabric)

[smokin99 0]

Quote

That’s right it has been published for everyone to read here:

http://huntfordbcooper.com/what-you-should-know-a-primer

None other than the voice of reason for every season, the cyber trooper for DB Cooper, the King of the disinformation wring and the Mayor Soothsayer….. Sluggo Monster.

I have used his website to peer deep into the dry, unadulterated facts and take a deep breath of sanity on many occasions.

Then I go back to the Bigfoot and Roswell UFO sites because they are more exciting and suspenseful than reading unedited transcripts or maps (alleged to be altered however).

Besides, I was able to purchase some wicked superb research materials on the other sites which Sluggo refuses to offer. Poser.

maybe I'm reaching, but my mama always told me if you want to know something just ask and it's gonna bug me til I do....so....... as self-appointed president of the FFFC (Far Flung Fan Club) and recently crowned Hunkette.....
Gray's book page on Amazon has an ad. You know the ones....Well this one says that the folks that buy Gray's book also buy "Sex on the Moon: The Amazing Story Behind the Most Audacious Heist in History by Ben Mezrich".

For some strange reason that made me think of Farflung.

and since we're talking codes........is His royal Hunkiness really GeoFFrey Gray? .

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[377 21]

Quote

and since we're talking codes........is His royal Hunkiness really GeoFFrey Gray?

No, not a chance. Gray isnt that good.

And all this self proclaimed hunkiness is unbecoming. Until it is confirmed by Orange, 99 or Vicki, Farflung is just an old guy with a keyboard... like me.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

Damage to N467US aft stairs: *

The canvas “modesty panel” isn’t very sturdy and wasn’t designed for in-flight deployment.

It’s there just to keep the ground crews from looking up ladies skirts (go for it FarFlung).

All-in-all there was VERY LITTLE damage to the aft stairs.


* Photos courtesy of snowmman

Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum

[377 21]

Sluggo wrote:

Quote

The canvas “modesty panel” isn’t very sturdy and wasn’t designed for in-flight deployment.

It’s there just to keep the ground crews from looking up ladies skirts (go for it FarFlung).

Remember PSA? They flew 727s. Modesty was the last thing on their agenda for flight attendants. They probably ordered their 27s from Boeing without that panel or had it constructed of transparent material.

Take a look:

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.the60sofficialsite.com/images/vintage-airline-stewardesses1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.the60sofficialsite.com/The_60s_Stew_Lucy_in_the_Sky_with_Din_Din.html&usg=__jU22sf5E4kJ24zMdRjGNZGjR9e8=&h=368&w=500&sz=54&hl=en&start=0&sig2=0cLB28rJxTO64c74bCQHaQ&zoom=1&tbnid=ji1iA3rlC-CcKM:&tbnh=145&tbnw=209&ei=2gwNTpm7Doa6sQOx_PijDg&prev=/search%3Fq%3DPSA%2Bflight%2Battendant%2Bminiskirt%2527%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DX%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox%26rlz%3D1I7GGLL_en%26biw%3D1400%26bih%3D810%26tbm%3Disch%26prmd%3Divns&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=908&vpy=110&dur=3174&hovh=193&hovw=262&tx=137&ty=64&page=1&ndsp=24&ved=1t:429,r:4,s:0&biw=1400&bih=810

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 21]

Quote

All-in-all there was VERY LITTLE damage to the aft stairs.

Which proves that they were routinely deployed for short field landings at Shemya. Right Sluggo?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Farflung 0]

RobertMBlevins opines:

“Well, first…I don’t think his original plan called for a night jump.”

Cooper didn’t plan to jump in the dark???

According to the ‘Old Farmer’s Almanac’- sunset on 24 November 1971 was 4:33 PM local time (Portland, OR).

According to Sluggo Monster’s web site: ‘NORJACK Time-Table’ a note is handed to Ms Schaffner which reports that he has a bomb and wants $200,000 American dollars by 5 PM. That is a full 27 minutes after sunset as planned.

I don’t think Cooper was expecting any sunlight during his theft.

[Amazon 7]

Quote

Damage to N467US aft stairs: *

The canvas “modesty panel” isn’t very sturdy and wasn’t designed for in-flight deployment.

It’s there just to keep the ground crews from looking up ladies skirts (go for it FarFlung).

All-in-all there was VERY LITTLE damage to the aft stairs.


* Photos courtesy of snowmman

Hey... I have been on N7001U... its sitting over at the Restoration hanger at Paine.. across the street from BOMARC where I worked on the 787 Project
I went on board the Comet sitting there too... they have a bunch of cool old planes there in process. including a flying banana chopper. and since this is DIZZY DOT COM...... there is a Green AN-2 there too

[EVickiW 0]

Quote

Until it is confirmed by Orange, 99 or Vicki, Farflung is just an old guy with a keyboard... like me.

I offered to meet Farflung for that drink he promised me, but I have not heard from him since. Maybe I came on a little too strong and frightened the Hunkyness of DZ???

BTW 377, you and I probably passed each other at the San Francisco airport on May 27th. Would have been fun to meet and go over our DB Cooper notes.

Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs

[Farflung 0]

So I look at that photograph of ‘Cooper’s’ 727 in Reno and I thought, ‘Hey… that don’t look like Reno’, all manly man like. Now I realize this is just from a keyboard (code for low quality) but a few other things started to smell a bit off putting and put me off a bit.

After the ‘Hey… that don’t look like Reno’ moment, I noticed the fabric damage on the upper left of the stairs, as viewed from the back of the plane. I think it is oddly coiled towards the nose of the aircraft which means it was fighting the slipstream and winning. I realize it could be some of that Roswell UFO saucer ‘memory foil’ that always returns back to its original shape. In the spirit of this thread, I base this on absolutely nothing and for references submit even less.

Additionally, the reinforcement webbing is wrapped in front of the dampening tube which is a little strange. So right now I’m thinking this may be a maintenance exemplar of some wind damage on the ground. Some gusting winds (what else?) or jet blast from passing aircraft (forgot about that) around the 5:30 position to the airframe tore the windbreak free and wrapped the trailing edge of the skirting forward like the lid on a sardine can. See how I tied something smelly into the end of this? But instead of aft stairs, I used a sardine lid as a metaphor. The sardines weren’t a metaphor for anything since they are more comfortable than passengers in an airliner.

[sailshaw 0]

Robert99: You say: "Sailshaw, You continue to ignore the simple fact that the flight crew (those three fellows in the cockpit, which is located in the forward part of the aircraft) has been quoted by several authors as stating they could not see the Portland/Vancouver area lights as they pass overhead. The reason was several layers of clouds plus a complete overcast."

That is what the crew said about not seeing Vancouver or the PDX Portland lights. They were not asked if they saw the glow in the clouds over Vancouver and Portland. If you were a pilot you would have experienced this for yourself, but you don't know so you just can't believe it. That is your problem and not mine.

Bob

[Robert99 37]

Quote

Robert99: You say: "Sailshaw, You continue to ignore the simple fact that the flight crew (those three fellows in the cockpit, which is located in the forward part of the aircraft) has been quoted by several authors as stating they could not see the Portland/Vancouver area lights as they pass overhead. The reason was several layers of clouds plus a complete overcast."

That is what the crew said about not seeing Vancouver or the PDX Portland lights. They were not asked if they saw the glow in the clouds over Vancouver and Portland. If you were a pilot you would have experienced this for yourself, but you don't know so you just can't believe it. That is your problem and not mine.

Bob

Sailshaw, I appreciate your humor. Enjoy you life as a comedian, but see below.

Since you don't have the slightest idea what you are talking about, you could probably also have a great career in some of our new political parties.

You could just arrive in some town in your flying saucer and that alone would guarantee an invitation to appear on all the talk shows. You could then give your version of history and your audience would automatically become true believers. Except maybe one or two who could read.

Time for a pop quiz since you have previously claimed to not only be a pilot but an electrical engineer. In keeping with this threads interest, the quiz will be aviation related. And its multiple choice.

Question: Which end of an airplane takes off first?

Choices: a. Front b. Tail c. Both d. Neither e. All of the above.

Robert Nicholson

[Farflung 0]

Vicki interjects:

“Maybe I came on a little too strong and frightened the Hunkyness of DZ???”

I don’t know why a thoughtful response would be thrown into the ‘frightened off’ pile, since nothing could be farther from the truth. And I’m all about being truthful and humble and grounded, 100% of the time.

Since I have an affinity for Tiki establishments because I’m also sophisticated, it took a while to locate a few options.

http://critiki.com/destinations/?region_id=6&country_id=1

Minnesota is rather limited in selection, but they make up for it in quality. Perhaps someone (code for Vicki) has a better suggestion than ‘Psycho Suzie’s Motor Lounge’?

http://www.psychosuzis.com/

Being extremely sensitive, I also researched a way to remove the initial awkwardness of meeting Vicki in a Tiki Bar filled to capacity. I found three extremely tasteful and flattering fashions Vicki could wear. A conservative black and white outfit, something more business related with white gloves or a stunning blue velvet gown. That’s being considerate and nice by the way.

Then I would order a PABST BLUE RIBBON for the lady and one bourbon, one scotch, one beer for myself. Oh, and a pair of Zombies to take advantage of ‘Psycho Suzie’s Paradise Lost and Found Specials’. I still have an eye for value after all. Ok, that was a lie I would have ordered the Zombies anyway.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uy-nhCKA6Xs&feature=related

I would ask about any Cooper news before the karaoke performances begin.

Vicki and I could just ‘hang out’ for a while then I would loosen my tie and finally tell her about me, as a way to make her feel comfortable so she would talk about me. Sure it’s a burden with my wineries, clandestine employment for the government where I wear several hats, but someone has to sacrifice for our freedoms. Then I would probably get dragged into talking about my chain of restaurants when Vicki asks ‘What time is it?’ or ‘Where’s the exit?’

At that time 377, I think Vicki can decide for herself if she is in the company of hunkyness or some old man with a keyboard and an irritable bowel. No matter the outcome, I would offer her transport home, where Vicki’s quiet reflection on the evening’s events will no doubt leave a lifetime of ‘special’ memories.

[EVickiW 0]

Quote

Psycho Suzie’s Motor Lounge

lol....I have been to Suzie's. Fun place. However, the Greenies and Pinkies are a much better drink over at Toni Jaro's. Right accross the street.

No Pabst for me though. (worst beer EVER).

I will take a craft beer called LiftBridge made in Stillwater, MN. Or we could just head to the Bahamas, sit on the beach and share a Pina Colada from a fresh cut pineapple! All this while we compare our Cooper notes.

Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs