FLYJACK 654 #61251 July 19, 2023 13 minutes ago, olemisscub said: My assumption with regard to this discrepancy is that Tina was misremembering whose purse it was, especially since that comes from her December 1st-2nd interview. Since Schaffner herself says it was her purse and Alice doesn't mention the incident, then it's logical to assume that Tina was just misremembering when she assigned the story as happening to Alice. Always possible but then she would have gotten two things wrong.. The wrong stew and Flo said she returned for her purse as she was leaving the plane,, Tina said she asked if they could leave after she got her purse.. IMO, something is being covered up with an inconsistent narrative... I believe Cooper offered them all ransom money and they made the excuse that it was tip money... Tina used the no tip policy to claim she returned it. We don't know if they took any or not.. but their story doesn't add up. Cooper has 200 k and offers them $19 tip money to split 3 ways AFTER Tina told him they don't accept tips due to company policy.. no way, there is something else going on. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 654 #61252 July 19, 2023 3 minutes ago, Robert99 said: It is plainly obvious from this picture that the chute is too big to be anything other than a 28-foot canopy in container designed for such canopies. It is a 26' stuffed into a 24' container... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
olemisscub 466 #61253 July 19, 2023 1 hour ago, FLYJACK said: no way, there is something else going on. I really don't think the default position needs to be that there is something sketchy happening due to a few inconsistencies. Multiple people will describe the same event in multiple ways. It's not at all uncommon. When I was a prosecutor it was often a nightmare to get the witnesses to be consistent during trial prep. Now, as a defense attorney, picking apart inconsistencies in testimonies is a tried and true method of impeaching witnesses. Of course, myself and everyone else who is part of the legal system knows that inconsistencies don't necessarily mean fabrication or dishonesty, but jury's will see it that way. Again, this was a highly stressful situation. I wouldn't expect their statements to match 100%. Also, there's always the X factor of what was actually said to the agents and what the agents were dictating to their secretaries days later when they made the 302's. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 654 #61254 July 19, 2023 14 minutes ago, olemisscub said: I really don't think the default position needs to be that there is something sketchy happening due to a few inconsistencies. Multiple people will describe the same event in multiple ways. It's not at all uncommon. When I was a prosecutor it was often a nightmare to get the witnesses to be consistent during trial prep. Now, as a defense attorney, picking apart inconsistencies in testimonies is a tried and true method of impeaching witnesses. Of course, myself and everyone else who is part of the legal system knows that inconsistencies don't necessarily mean fabrication or dishonesty, but jury's will see it that way. Again, this was a highly stressful situation. I wouldn't expect their statements to match 100%. Also, there's always the X factor of what was actually said to the agents and what the agents were dictating to their secretaries days later when they made the 302's. In this case it is isn't just a few inconsistencies, elements of the narrative are not believable.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
olemisscub 466 #61255 July 19, 2023 2 minutes ago, FLYJACK said: In this case it is isn't just a few inconsistencies, elements of the narrative are not believable.. What precisely? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nicholas Broughton 53 #61256 July 19, 2023 3 hours ago, FLYJACK said: The packing card went with the chute to the WSHM... Do you think touch DNA can be obtained from the packing card? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 654 #61257 July 19, 2023 8 minutes ago, Nicholas Broughton said: Do you think touch DNA can be obtained from the packing card? IMO, the inside edge of the card pocket would be better to test.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chaucer 103 #61258 July 19, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, FLYJACK said: It is a 26' stuffed into a 24' container... All you need is the museum's permission to have a master rigger come by and take out the canopy, verify it's size, and repack it. It would take 30 minutes and settle all debates. Edited July 19, 2023 by Chaucer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 654 #61259 July 19, 2023 48 minutes ago, olemisscub said: What precisely? Tina asked for some ransom money, took it then returned it claiming company no tip policy.. not believable.. that is not duress and she would not have taken it in the first place. She suddenly remembered the policy after she took it. After Tina informed Cooper of the no tip policy he tried to tip $19 between all three stews.. not believable.. I don't know what is going on but the narrative is not correct. BTW.. there is a no tip policy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nicholas Broughton 53 #61260 July 19, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, FLYJACK said: Flo stuffed Cooper's note in her purse. Flo grabbed a pen from her purse when she dictated the note for Cooper. When Flo was leaving she had forgotten her purse and went back for it. Alice also left her purse in the back near Cooper.. There is no mention of Tina's purse and odd that Alice's purse was in the back when it wasn't her section.. It is also strange that Alice got her purse from the back then turned and left with Flo but Flo forgot her purse and had to return. but the purses were left next to Cooper and he had the opportunity to drop money in their purses.. Something isn't right between Tina asking for money, taking it then returning it claiming a no tip policy, later all the stews refusing the drink money tip $19 between them, about $6 each.. ridiculous... and Flo and Alice refusing ransom money according to some reports.. and the two purses left in the back with Cooper. And what happened to Tina’s purse? In this pic of her leaving the airplane, no sign of a purse. 6846CDCE-2F8F-46E9-ACC4-757D5B021DC5.webp Edited July 19, 2023 by Nicholas Broughton Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 654 #61261 July 19, 2023 20 minutes ago, Nicholas Broughton said: And what happened to Tina’s purse? In this pic of her leaving the airplane, no sign of a purse. 6846CDCE-2F8F-46E9-ACC4-757D5B021DC5.webpUnavailable Can't see your pic, is it the one where she is holding the book... but she has a purse here.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
olemisscub 466 #61262 July 19, 2023 1 hour ago, FLYJACK said: Tina asked for some ransom money, took it then returned it claiming company no tip policy.. not believable.. that is not duress and she would not have taken it in the first place. She suddenly remembered the policy after she took it. After Tina informed Cooper of the no tip policy he tried to tip $19 between all three stews.. not believable.. I don't know what is going on but the narrative is not correct. BTW.. there is a no tip policy. If that whole thing about her taking the money and then handing it back was a lie, then what was the point of the lie? Seems like an interaction you'd just omit completely when telling the story. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 654 #61263 July 19, 2023 20 minutes ago, olemisscub said: If that whole thing about her taking the money and then handing it back was a lie, then what was the point of the lie? Seems like an interaction you'd just omit completely when telling the story. Well, only two people knew what actually happened,,, If Cooper was caught, maybe some money is missing he could say hey I gave that stew a few packets of cash.. I can only speculate,, but IMO, the narrative does not make sense. Something else is going on. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert99 37 #61264 July 19, 2023 4 hours ago, FLYJACK said: It is a 26' stuffed into a 24' container... No, its not! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 654 #61265 July 19, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Robert99 said: No, its not! How do you know. The container is a 24' The card originally written by Cossey says 26' and was repacked twice.. as a 26' Can you even put a 28' in a 24' container?? Edited July 19, 2023 by FLYJACK Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
olemisscub 466 #61266 July 19, 2023 6 hours ago, FLYJACK said: It is a 26' stuffed into a 24' container... What makes you say that? NB6's were built for 26' Navy conical canopies. NB8's were for 28' C-9's. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 654 #61267 July 19, 2023 (edited) 27 minutes ago, olemisscub said: What makes you say that? NB6's were built for 26' Navy conical canopies. NB8's were for 28' C-9's. The chute returned to Hayden is a Pioneer P2-B-24' container with a 26' chute... not an NB6 Cossey claimed Cooper's chute was the NB6/8 but that is probably not true. Cooper used the 24'. Edited July 19, 2023 by FLYJACK Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
olemisscub 466 #61268 July 19, 2023 11 minutes ago, FLYJACK said: The chute returned to Hayden is a Pioneer P2-B-24' container with a 26' chute... not an NB6 Cossey claimed Cooper's chute was the NB6/8 but that is probably not true. Cooper used the 24'. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
c99acer 6 #61269 July 20, 2023 8 hours ago, olemisscub said: My assumption with regard to this discrepancy is that Tina was misremembering whose purse it was, especially since that comes from her December 1st-2nd interview. Since Schaffner herself says it was her purse and Alice doesn't mention the incident, then it's logical to assume that Tina was just misremembering when she assigned the story as happening to Alice. So it seems at least one of the stewardesses left their purse. Most importantly, they went back into the plane to retrieve it, even though the terrible hijacker and his briefcase bomb were still inside the plane. They didn't seem too uncomfortable around him! This tells us a lot about how he set the ladies at ease - hint into his personality, maybe? 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
olemisscub 466 #61270 July 20, 2023 1 hour ago, c99acer said: So it seems at least one of the stewardesses left their purse. Most importantly, they went back into the plane to retrieve it, even though the terrible hijacker and his briefcase bomb were still inside the plane. They didn't seem too uncomfortable around him! This tells us a lot about how he set the ladies at ease - hint into his personality, maybe? I believe Cooper was a lot less tense once he received the money and with the passengers off the plane. Agree with you on them being somewhat comfortable around him. They're seemingly back there just shooting the shit with him. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 197 #61271 July 20, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, c99acer said: So it seems at least one of the stewardesses left their purse. Most importantly, they went back into the plane to retrieve it, even though the terrible hijacker and his briefcase bomb were still inside the plane. They didn't seem too uncomfortable around him! This tells us a lot about how he set the ladies at ease - hint into his personality, maybe? It stands in stark contrast to his earlier 'paranoia' over being interfered with, sky marshals on the plane, and an argumentative Rataczak ! The FBI chose not to risk a move during these openings! A bomb is a powerful deterrent. Edited July 20, 2023 by georger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert99 37 #61272 July 20, 2023 11 hours ago, Chaucer said: All you need is the museum's permission to have a master rigger come by and take out the canopy, verify it's size, and repack it. It would take 30 minutes and settle all debates. Shutter supposedly attempted to do that but was unsuccessful. If there is someone on this thread that lives in the Seattle area and is willing to give it a try, please do so. I will help with the expenses, maybe all of them. But if a repack can be arranged, we need to get a cameraman involved who is willing to photograph every square inch of the entire rig both inside and outside. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert99 37 #61273 July 20, 2023 9 hours ago, FLYJACK said: How do you know. The container is a 24' The card originally written by Cossey says 26' and was repacked twice.. as a 26' Can you even put a 28' in a 24' container?? FlyJack, I have flown with 24-foot seat parachutes that were about half the size of that 28-foot parachute container in your picture. All believable evidence indicates that both of Hayden's parachutes were 28-foot canopies in containers designed for 28-foot canopies. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
olemisscub 466 #61274 July 20, 2023 5 hours ago, Robert99 said: FlyJack, I have flown with 24-foot seat parachutes that were about half the size of that 28-foot parachute container in your picture. All believable evidence indicates that both of Hayden's parachutes were 28-foot canopies in containers designed for 28-foot canopies. Are you suggesting Cossey lied on BOTH of the packing cards? For what purpose? The packing card that says 24 foot canopy was not a typo in the FBI Files. Two different people, a month apart, read that card and stated the exact same thing in their report. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 654 #61275 July 20, 2023 (edited) 12 hours ago, Robert99 said: FlyJack, I have flown with 24-foot seat parachutes that were about half the size of that 28-foot parachute container in your picture. All believable evidence indicates that both of Hayden's parachutes were 28-foot canopies in containers designed for 28-foot canopies. Hayden chute card, 26' canopy You can't compare a seat chute.. There is ZERO evidence Hayden's chute at WSHM is a 28'.. NONE It is a P2,, it says so on it, they are 24 ft containers,, they were early 1940's and originally had silk chutes. It is stuffed with a 26' chute, visually and per the packing card.... making it look slightly bigger. Perspective,, it is small, a Pioneer 24' P2 stuffed with a 26'.. This is a 1940 Pioneer P1-B-24 (label) a 24' container that preceded Hayden's updated early 40's Pioneer P2... same size slightly updated design.. This is also a 24' Edited July 20, 2023 by FLYJACK Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
