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7 minutes ago, CooperNWO305 said:

Trying to play catch up here.  Do I understand all the posts correctly that the new analysis of the diatoms indicates a certain time frame for the arrival of the bills on Tina Bar, and that arrival time could not have been late November of 1971?

Yes, it suggests the money arrived from the river on TB around May/June... a delay between NORJAK and the money arrival.

IMO, per the Palmer Report, the money packets were found in the upper "fresher" debri layer.. the older more deteriorated debri layer was lower. This also supports a later timeframe. 

Kaye believes the diatoms could only have entered the interior of the packet when fanned out in the river in late spring/early summer.

 

The money packets spent some time somewhere between NORJAK and landing on TBAR.

 

"Objects in your TBAR theory are closer than they appear"

 

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53 minutes ago, CooperNWO305 said:

Flyjack: Where is "somewhere"? Could somewhere be in a creek or upstream, etc?  Or does it lean more towards being in someone's possession, such as a stewardess?

It suggests the money went into and out of the Columbia in a very short timeframe around late spring/early summer.. IMO, within a few years of its discovery.

 

That does limit the theories... that could be human possession but not necessarily that simple.

I did come up with another theory long ago that actually fits. There was a dump called St John's Landfill just upstream W side of Portland on the Columbia Slough. It was a mess, people dumped stuff everywhere illegally. If the money were stashed or hidden in debris/garbage and thrown into the dump area it and made it into the Slough, it is an easy trip to TBAR..

 

https://www.oregonlive.com/environment/2011/03/portlands_st_johns_landfill_on.html

 

 

 

-a96eb81d0a9150f1.jpg.d058dfae9b0d53b9155770f619067142.jpg

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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Possible, but if you hid the money in a messy dump, chances are you would never find it again. Dumps back then were also very public. Anyone could pay the fee and just drive in there, unload what they had. And the garbage is being moved around all the time as well. You may as well send it through a shredder, rather than trying to hide anything there. 

Tom Kaye thinks 'human intervention' was somehow involved in the money delivery to Tina Bar, no matter how it was done. 

No one has yet to come up with a plausible explanation on HOW a flight with so much cash on board...that somehow a portion of that money ended up a minimum of six miles away on a riverbank along the Columbia later. About the only way this could realistically happen is if Cooper went kerplunk into the Columbia as it passed over Portland. 

But the evidence shows Cooper jumped prior to the flight crossing the Columbia, in fact, several miles prior the flight reaching the river. The indicator light for airstairs flashing on when the door was opened, and then off for just a second when Cooper jumped, (stairs relieved of his weight)...the position of the flight at that time can be narrowed to at least a point NORTH of the river, probably by several miles. 

It's an enigma for sure. 

I will tell you how we dealt with this question in the movie script. The truth is...no one has the ultimate answer. We have KC and Geestman taking a side trip on the way back to Bonney Lake, and KC tosses some of the money into the Columbia. It ends up at Tina Bar. This may not match the diatom thing, but it's a simple explanation. However, I am holding out for another change in the script that has KC going to the river some time after the FBI gets their John Doe warrant in 1976. 

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17 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Possible, but if you hid the money in a messy dump, chances are you would never find it again. Dumps back then were also very public. Anyone could pay the fee and just drive in there, unload what they had. And the garbage is being moved around all the time as well. You may as well send it through a shredder, rather than trying to hide anything there. 

Tom Kaye thinks 'human intervention' was somehow involved in the money delivery to Tina Bar, no matter how it was done. 

No one has yet to come up with a plausible explanation on HOW a flight with so much cash on board...that somehow a portion of that money ended up a minimum of six miles away on a riverbank along the Columbia later. About the only way this could realistically happen is if Cooper went kerplunk into the Columbia as it passed over Portland. 

But the evidence shows Cooper jumped prior to the flight crossing the Columbia, in fact, several miles prior the flight reaching the river. The indicator light for airstairs flashing on when the door was opened, and then off for just a second when Cooper jumped, (stairs relieved of his weight)...the position of the flight at that time can be narrowed to at least a point NORTH of the river, probably by several miles. 

It's an enigma for sure. 

I will tell you how we dealt with this question in the movie script. The truth is...no one has the ultimate answer. We have KC and Geestman taking a side trip on the way back to Bonney Lake, and KC tosses some of the money into the Columbia. It ends up at Tina Bar. This may not match the diatom thing, but it's a simple explanation. However, I am holding out for another change in the script that has KC going to the river some time after the FBI gets their John Doe warrant in 1976. 

It was just a theory,,

but I am not suggesting the money was hidden in the dump to be retrieved.. that makes no sense. It could have been either intentionally discarded and thrown into the garbage to get rid of it or hidden somewhere in something that was eventually tossed into the dump..

An example might be hiding the money in a house wall, the house is torn down and the debri is tossed in the dump..  or something like that.

There are probably other theories that fit,, I still like the "Tina kept it theory",,, She handled money from the bag and she was a few miles upstream of TBAR a 1978/79.

Edited by FLYJACK

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6 hours ago, CooperNWO305 said:

I like the dump theory, whether placed or it was from a house that was torn down.  A lot better than many other theories out there.  

Requires an awful lot of process steps...has to be stored in a house...house must be torn down...no one notices cash coming up in the debris during the tear-down, loading up, delivery, and dump process...then you have to move it into the Columbia somehow...moving it miles from that dump...gets buried on a beach somehow, shards and all...it's a long chain of events. 

Speaking of theories, or even diatoms...

Never in my wildest dreams would I have thought single-celled algae would cause such a ruckus over at the DB Cooper Forum. They are nearly going to blows over there about it, filing complaints, and next will be eating their own young in frustration. I already suggested if they want answers to their questions, or solutions to the problem, they should consult a diatom expert. There aren't a whole lot of them, (let's face it, algae CAN be boring) but there ARE some experts to consult. 

This is why it is better to just sit around a campfire with a Bushmills and soda and discuss the case. People don't generally go crazy, and it's a lot more fun. B)

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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10 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Requires an awful lot of process steps...has to be stored in a house...house must be torn down...no one notices cash coming up in the debris during the tear-down, loading up, delivery, and dump process...then you have to move it into the Columbia somehow...moving it miles from that dump...gets buried on a beach somehow, shards and all...it's a long chain of events. 

Speaking of theories, or even diatoms...

Never in my wildest dreams would I have thought single-celled algae would cause such a ruckus over at the DB Cooper Forum. They are nearly going to blows over there about it, filing complaints, and next will be eating their own young in frustration. I already suggested if they want answers to their questions, or solutions to the problem, they should consult a diatom expert. There aren't a whole lot of them, (let's face it, algae CAN be boring) but there ARE some experts to consult. 

This is why it is better to just sit around a campfire with a Bushmills and soda and discuss the case. People don't generally go crazy, and it's a lot more fun. B)

Standard bickering between a few of the same people.  However, that should not take away from the fact that this discovery is potentially very impactful.  

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11 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Requires an awful lot of process steps...has to be stored in a house...house must be torn down...no one notices cash coming up in the debris during the tear-down, loading up, delivery, and dump process...then you have to move it into the Columbia somehow...moving it miles from that dump...gets buried on a beach somehow, shards and all...it's a long chain of events. 

 

Actually it is a very plausible theory... the money finds its way into the dump/landfill either intentionally discarded or unintentionally hidden in something.

The landfill is right on the Columbia Slough surrounded by water with no sealing and environmental standards we have today.. and there was crap dumped everywhere. If something got into the Columbia Slough it is an easy downstream trip to TBAR.. I read a news report that TBAR fisherman would find garbage including shoes...  where did the shoes come from?? the dump?

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'Standard bickering between a few of the same people.  However, that should not take away from the fact that this discovery is potentially very impactful...'

Mostly the same TWO people, Georger and Robert99. I don't think it's THAT big a deal, but they remind me of candidates in a Democratic debate sometimes. B)

Side Note: Not a real big deal but AB staff have finally 99.999% determined that the ugly comments that often appear on Bruce's news blog under the name 'Johnnie Greene' are actually posted by Georger. One way we determined this was to go back to screenshots of posts by Georger years ago at the Cooper Forum where he uses my name in his insults. We matched up several of them almost exactly to the ones he makes now, and those other ones were from YEARS ago. They are virtually the same, especially where he talks about our housecleaning business. One thing about Georger....he is predictable. It was actually Greg the Techie Guy who sent me the report, and did the work. I don't know why he bothered, but he did. 

This proves two things as well.

First, AB has a long memory. Second, we're pretty good at analyzing phrases and words and can often match them to a person. It's a skill you learn by a lot of reading, and editing more than sixty books. People write in a certain way, even if they don't realize it. And to someone whose business is all about words...sometimes it is like looking at fingerprints. Hard to explain, but it's true. 

As far as the comments, I couldn't care less. But the next time you see something from 'Johnnie Greene,' just think 'Georger' instead. This guy went to college? Taught students for years? What a laugh. I wouldn't hire the guy to teach fingerpainting in kindergarten, and neither would I trust him around young children. His online behavior is downright filthy. Thankfully, views and comments to Bruce's blog are WAY down. His last few articles don't have a single comment. (Johnnie will probably see this and 'fix' that LOL.) I'd post up 'Johnnie's' latest examples of immaturity here, but that's against the rules. Go look for yourself. (Sorry, Flyjack...but old Johnnie mentions you a couple of times as well. Guess Georger is angry at the both of us.)

As far as our cleaning business goes, we work a single house a day now, maybe four days a week. We still clear nearly $60,000 a year with the side work, like housesitting for folks. I never work more than six hours a day, either. When we were doing it two or three homes a day and five days a week, we were making so much money that we were able to put enough away for retirement and have never had a penny in debt since. Georger can swallow that for a while... ^_^ And anytime I wanted to take a break, a vacation, a camping trip...I never had to ask the boss. I just DID it. 

I agree with the idea that stashing the ransom money in a house, tearing down that house, transporting the debris to a dump, and the money somehow ending up in the nearby Columbia, and washing a few miles downriver to Tina Bar, etc...YES, it's a theory. Is it one hell of a big stretch? Also yes. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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12 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Mostly the same TWO people, Georger and Robert99. I don't think it's THAT big a deal, but they remind me of candidates in a Democratic debate sometimes. B)

Side Note: Not a real big deal but AB staff have finally 99.999% determined that the ugly comments that often appear on Bruce's news blog under the name 'Johnnie Greene' are actually posted by Georger. One way we determined this was to go back to screenshots of posts by Georger years ago at the Cooper Forum where he uses my name in his insults. We matched up several of them almost exactly to the ones he makes now, and those other ones were from YEARS ago. They are virtually the same, especially where he talks about our housecleaning business. One thing about Georger....he is predictable. It was actually Greg the Techie Guy who sent me the report, and did the work. I don't know why he bothered, but he did. 

This proves two things as well.

First, AB has a long memory. Second, we're pretty good at analyzing phrases and words and can often match them to a person. It's a skill you learn by a lot of reading, and editing more than sixty books. People write in a certain way, even if they don't realize it. And to someone whose business is all about words...sometimes it is like looking at fingerprints. Hard to explain, but it's true. 

As far as the comments, I couldn't care less. But the next time you see something from 'Johnnie Greene,' just think 'Georger' instead. This guy went to college? Taught students for years? What a laugh. I wouldn't hire the guy to teach fingerpainting in kindergarten, and neither would I trust him around young children. His online behavior is downright filthy. Thankfully, views and comments to Bruce's blog are WAY down. His last few articles don't have a single comment. (Johnnie will probably see this and 'fix' that LOL.) I'd post up 'Johnnie's' latest examples of immaturity here, but that's against the rules. Go look for yourself. (Sorry, Flyjack...but old Johnnie mentions you a couple of times as well. Guess Georger is angry at the both of us.)

As far as our cleaning business goes, we work a single house a day now, maybe four days a week. We still clear nearly $60,000 a year with the side work, like housesitting for folks. I never work more than six hours a day, either. When we were doing it two or three homes a day and five days a week, we were making so much money that we were able to put enough away for retirement and have never had a penny in debt since. Georger can swallow that for a while... ^_^ And anytime I wanted to take a break, a vacation, a camping trip...I never had to ask the boss. I just DID it. 

I agree with the idea that stashing the ransom money in a house, tearing down that house, transporting the debris to a dump, and the money somehow ending up in the nearby Columbia, and washing a few miles downriver to Tina Bar, etc...YES, it's a theory. Is it one hell of a big stretch? Also yes. 

Robert: I'd be willing to bet money that Georger is not Johnnie Greene. Not even close.  I have a thought of who it is, based on writing style, and other parts of posts.  Georger just does not write like that, he does not take stabs like that.  The individual who is Johnnie Greene clearly has an issue with you Robert, whether it is personal, or they feel like they need to target you.  My assessment is Johnnie Greene knows a decent amount about the case.  I don't have a positive or negative relationship with Georger, just the standard one that most people would have with a scientist/professor/meticulous type.

Johnnie Greene is not likely Georger or Robert.

If you're going to analyze text, look into a concept called stylometry.  Matching screen shots of posts is very different.

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5 hours ago, CooperNWO305 said:

Robert: I'd be willing to bet money that Georger is not Johnnie Greene. Not even close.  I have a thought of who it is, based on writing style, and other parts of posts.  Georger just does not write like that, he does not take stabs like that.  The individual who is Johnnie Greene clearly has an issue with you Robert, whether it is personal, or they feel like they need to target you.  My assessment is Johnnie Greene knows a decent amount about the case.  I don't have a positive or negative relationship with Georger, just the standard one that most people would have with a scientist/professor/meticulous type.

Johnnie Greene is not likely Georger or Robert.

If you're going to analyze text, look into a concept called stylometry.  Matching screen shots of posts is very different.

Would a Stylometry analysis also reveal that CooperNWO305  blogs on Shutter's site as Andrade?

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1 hour ago, Robert99 said:

Would a Stylometry analysis also reveal that CooperNWO305  blogs on Shutter's site as Andrade?

R99: I don't know how effective stylometry is with all the posts out there.  There are complexities.  It is not just plug and play.  However, for someone that posts as often as Georger or a few others, it is hard to hide a certain style, and those of us who read the forum often, start to see patterns naturally.  Someone like yourself who has deep theories likely sees the patterns too.  The Johnnie Greene posts have a very different flavor than Georger's posts.  Possibly the same person, but unlikely.  And if Johnnie Greene is the same as Georger or yourself, then it has taken some effort to mask the comments. I just don't see it being you guys. 

Example: If someone pops up and starts talking a lot about microscopes, diatoms, titanium, then it might be Tom Kaye.  If it's about a western flight path, then maybe you or EU.  If it is about Klansnic, then it's likely one of two people.  But, the Johnnie Greene comments don't seem to have a lot of details about the case, mainly just attacks on one person, Robert Blevins. So it's hard to tie it to a specific person. I'm just guessing off some things I observed.  I don't have the time to compare all the comments and tie them to multiple screen names.

A similar concept was used in the Unabomber case.  

 

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26 minutes ago, CooperNWO305 said:

R99: I don't know how effective stylometry is with all the posts out there.  There are complexities.  It is not just plug and play.  However, for someone that posts as often as Georger or a few others, it is hard to hide a certain style, and those of us who read the forum often, start to see patterns naturally.  Someone like yourself who has deep theories likely sees the patterns too.  The Johnnie Greene posts have a very different flavor than Georger's posts.  Possibly the same person, but unlikely.  And if Johnnie Greene is the same as Georger or yourself, then it has taken some effort to mask the comments. I just don't see it being you guys. 

Example: If someone pops up and starts talking a lot about microscopes, diatoms, titanium, then it might be Tom Kaye.  If it's about a western flight path, then maybe you or EU.  If it is about Klansnic, then it's likely one of two people.  But, the Johnnie Greene comments don't seem to have a lot of details about the case, mainly just attacks on one person, Robert Blevins. So it's hard to tie it to a specific person. I'm just guessing off some things I observed.  I don't have the time to compare all the comments and tie them to multiple screen names.

A similar concept was used in the Unabomber case.  

 

Let me ask you another question.  Do you know of software programs that could be used to compare several different and very short sequences of letters and determine what their differences and similarities are?  I have five sequences of letters with each sequence being about 60 to 70 letters long.  Three of these sequences are strongly related to each other and the other two are also strongly related to each other.  In addition, all five sequences are related in some uncertain manner at this point.  If you wish, please reply by PM on Shutter's site. 

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16 minutes ago, Robert99 said:

Let me ask you another question.  Do you know of software programs that could be used to compare several different and very short sequences of letters and determine what their differences and similarities are?  I have five sequences of letters with each sequence being about 60 to 70 letters long.  Three of these sequences are strongly related to each other and the other two are also strongly related to each other.  In addition, all five sequences are related in some uncertain manner at this point.  If you wish, please reply by PM on Shutter's site. 

If you just want to know the differences, Microsoft Excel can do it very easily.  If you want to figure out the patterns of the differences, that's a little harder to do, but possible.  PM me on here.

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(edited)

I have read hundreds upon hundreds of posts by Georger. He would post similar stuff here, and a few years ago, over at the Cooper Forum. At the Cooper Forum, he mostly avoids doing that now because Shutter got tired of it. I am sure that Georger and Johnnie Greene are the same person. Why does he do that over at Bruce's place, you ask? Because he can no longer do it either here or at the Cooper Forum. 

If you could actually believe that both Bruce and Shutter would be honest about it, (doubtful, especially with Bruce) the two of them could compare their IP logs. At WordPress, every single comment post comes with an IP address behind it in the owner's log. Same with Shutter. They could compare their results. Changing your email or going with a phony email address won't change the IP. 

This is how Greg the Techie Guy caught Georger making REALLY filthy posts to that Regina Winkles' WordPress article. Regina sent him a list of the IP's of the worst offenders, and the usernames behind them. He eventually tracked some other posts where the REAL Georger had made posts, and was able to acquire the IP address of the person posting. A series of the worst Regina Place posts matched his real IP address. It only takes one confirmed post with an IP to do that. 

Look...most of this crap happened years ago and doesn't matter now. What DOES matter is that Georger believes he can just continue to do this stuff to the present day and wouldn't be caught. He was caught. That link I provided was only the most recent ones. You should see Bruce's article, the one with over a thousand comments from about a year ago. 'Greene' aka Georger is all over them. 

It's ruining Bruce's site and driving away traffic there. No skin off my nose. Where he sometimes received scores, or even a hundred comments to an article, his last two or three have zero, or nearly zero. This may or may not relate directly to viewers or traffic, I will admit. For example, at my WordPress on Cooper, about 30,000 views come in per month but people seldom comment on anything. And they never have. They mostly lurk or jump around the articles, or they are spider bots. But I also screen the comments for content. 

In Bruce's case, it is hard to say since I have not seen his stats, but I wouldn't say it is a good thing to go from tons of comments to almost zero. He should simply boot 'Johnnie Greene' from his site and watch the traffic return. 

All of this stuff has a very negative effect if and when different media check you out on the Cooper case. It hurts your credibility, makes you look bad with the public and the media both. Bruce isn't gaining much by allowing stuff like that on his own website. Think of it THIS way:

By allowing posts by the likes of 'Johnnie Greene,' maybe a couple of people get slightly irritated. Big deal. But then...they sit there permanently, making him look like foolish for allowing such things on his own site, and they reach so many other people who will look down on him for allowing it. The losses far outweigh any gains he thinks he's getting. Just makes him look like a fool. I would never allow such posts to my own WordPress. Frankly, I don't care if anyone comments at all. 

You are actually better off screening the comments, rather than allowing people to simply go crazy. You will get a reputation, and not a good one. Imagine if some media types see that stuff...makes you look bad. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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16 hours ago, Robert99 said:

Andrade, can you add to the answers to my questions above?

I'm not an expert on stylometry, though there are apps online that analyze writing styles that you could use.

Regardless, I'm not NWO305. If you pm me, I can give you my personal email. I have been writing under my own name for 19 years.

Edited by Andrade1812

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23 minutes ago, Andrade1812 said:

I'm not an expert on stylometry, though there are apps online that analyze writing styles that you could use.

Regardless, I'm not NWO305. If you pm me, I can give you my personal email. I have been writing under my own name for 19 years.

No worries. I believe you. Only people with a side agenda do multiple online identities in the Cooper case. You also have a book out there on the case, and are unlikely to engage in stuff like that. I don't know much about you, but I never thought you had a side agenda going. B)

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