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6 hours ago, ParrotheadVol said:

This is hypocrisy at it's finest. You can have your suspect, but damn anyone else who has a suspect.

It's not hypocrisy. Sheridan Petersen was investigated by the FBI for the Cooper case already. Agents actually came to his door and questioned him, asked and received a DNA sample from him. He withheld nothing, and didn't ask for a lawyer. 

Then...some of YOUR friends went along with the idea of infringing copyright (technically a Federal offense by the way) using an anonymous name to do so...and then published his book without his permission. By doing this, while AB of Seattle was negotiating to release that same book LEGITIMATELY at TRADE RATES WORLDWIDE...for FREE...your friends laughed at both myself and Sheridan and stuck that book online for a whopping twenty five bucks in paperback. An ISBN was also assigned to the book (falsely because Snownman would have had to lie on the app to get one)...which ruined his life's work from further publishing forever...

And then another of your friends...Eric U...started hassling his family and just plain making up shit about Sheridan to somehow 'prove' he was the hijacker. Now Eric wants to forward that accusation to national television, further screwing Sheridan, his family, (who stood to receive money for life should we do the book legitimately)...and drag his name once again into the mud. 

Don't speak to me of morals OR hypocrisy in this matter. I am convinced that Sheridan is INNOCENT. None of you over there stood up for him when it counted. If and when the time comes, if it ever comes to that....you can bet I will do that job FOR you. 

Enough is enough. Sheridan Peterson is the kind of guy you WISH you were. His life sets an example of doing the moral thing from the time he was born until the present day. All he ever got from Cooperland was a royal screwing. Someone, anyone, should have the courage to stand up to the people who say otherwise. If you can't handle the job, I will do it for you gladly. 

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(edited)

Another subject: I have been contacted by someone who was in authority at one time at Seattle Sky Sports, right around the time of the hijacking. His identity has been verified. We are working out the question on just how MANY...and WHO SENT WHAT...from Sky Sports on the evening of the hijacking. This person has been provided the standard info, (Hayden/Cossey document from FBI agent John Detlor) and a rundown on what the FBI says...and what Cossey has said. 

For example, did a total of FOUR chutes actually get sent from Seattle Sky Sports on the night of the hijacking, two bailout rigs  *allegedly* by Cossey by cab...and another two (pink reserve and non-working reserve trainer) by Linn Emerick? Or...was it only the two reserves? We will soon find out. 

As some of you know, the FBI report by John Detlor only mentions four chutes going to the airport, and nothing about Cossey actually owning any of them, although the report says he packed them, and can ID them. It also says that Norman Hayden from Kent, WA sent two bailout (backpack) rigs by cab to NWA. Six chutes...but only room for four. The FBI says four. 

Either a mistake was made, or someone isn't being truthful. The person I am working with now will know the 'real deal' as they say. This guy knew Cossey very well. Even if Coss was contacted at his home...and not Sky Sports...and Coss sent two bailout rigs of his own to SeaTac by cab as he claimed...we will get to the bottom of it very soon. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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16 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Another subject: I have been contacted by someone who was in authority at one time at Seattle Sky Sports, right around the time of the hijacking. His identity has been verified. We are working out the question on just how MANY...and WHO SENT WHAT...from Sky Sports on the evening of the hijacking. This person has been provided the standard info, (Hayden/Cossey document from FBI agent John Detlor) and a rundown on what the FBI says...and what Cossey has said. 

For example, did a total of FOUR chutes actually get sent from Seattle Sky Sports on the night of the hijacking, two bailout rigs  *allegedly* by Cossey by cab...and another two (pink reserve and non-working reserve trainer) by Linn Emerick? Or...was it only the two reserves? We will soon find out. 

As some of you know, the FBI report by John Detlor only mentions four chutes going to the airport, and nothing about Cossey actually owning any of them, although the report says he packed them, and can ID them. It also says that Norman Hayden from Kent, WA sent two bailout (backpack) rigs by cab to NWA. Six chutes...but only room for four. The FBI says four. 

Either a mistake was made, or someone isn't being truthful. The person I am working with now will know the 'real deal' as they say. This guy knew Cossey very well. Even if Coss was contacted at his home...and not Sky Sports...and Coss sent two bailout rigs of his own to SeaTac by cab as he claimed...we will get to the bottom of it very soon. 

Cossey didn't claim he sent four chutes from Sky Sports..

He claimed he sent the two back chutes from his home.

 

Only the two front chutes came from Sky Sports.

 

But, who actually grabbed the two from Sky Sports,, I always find it odd that Emerick would grab a dummy chute by mistake.

Edited by FLYJACK

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17 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

Cossey didn't claim he sent four chutes from Sky Sports..

He claimed he sent the two back chutes from his home.

Only the two front chutes came from Sky Sports.

But, who actually grabbed the two from Sky Sports,, I always find it odd that Emerick would grab a dummy chute by mistake.

I never thought Cossey sent four chutes on his own from Sky Sports. Yes, I am aware he claimed he did it using a taxi cab from his home in Woodinville. But here is the deal:

This person knew Cossey from prior to the hijacking until Coss died, although he wasn't in contact much with Cossey for a few years prior to Cossey's death. But he worked with Cossey back in the day at Sky Sports, and with Emerick. It was a skydiver here at DZ that put us together. If anyone would know whether Cossey actually DID send two chutes to SeaTac that night, it will be this guy. As I said, they worked together both before and after the hijacking. So it would be natural that he would know the truth on Cossey's claim. I am not going to name him right now, but he was in a position of authority as they say, at Sky Sports. 

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I have never spent any time on the McChord Parachutes..

 

As usual,, a quick scan shows conflicting stories. 

 

Cooper requested chutes from McChord.

Cooper wondered why it was taking so long citing McChord time distance.

Military chutes were rushed to Sea Tac from McChord.

Cooper learned of the chutes from McChord, rejected them and requested sport chutes.

Cooper used the military chute.

 

So, what is the deal with the McChord chutes..

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3 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

It's not hypocrisy. Sheridan Petersen was investigated by the FBI for the Cooper case already. Agents actually came to his door and questioned him, asked and received a DNA sample from him. He withheld nothing, and didn't ask for a lawyer. 

Then...some of YOUR friends went along with the idea of infringing copyright (technically a Federal offense by the way) using an anonymous name to do so...and then published his book without his permission. By doing this, while AB of Seattle was negotiating to release that same book LEGITIMATELY at TRADE RATES WORLDWIDE...for FREE...your friends laughed at both myself and Sheridan and stuck that book online for a whopping twenty five bucks in paperback. An ISBN was also assigned to the book (falsely because Snownman would have had to lie on the app to get one)...which ruined his life's work from further publishing forever...

And then another of your friends...Eric U...started hassling his family and just plain making up shit about Sheridan to somehow 'prove' he was the hijacker. Now Eric wants to forward that accusation to national television, further screwing Sheridan, his family, (who stood to receive money for life should we do the book legitimately)...and drag his name once again into the mud. 

Don't speak to me of morals OR hypocrisy in this matter. I am convinced that Sheridan is INNOCENT. None of you over there stood up for him when it counted. If and when the time comes, if it ever comes to that....you can bet I will do that job FOR you. 

Enough is enough. Sheridan Peterson is the kind of guy you WISH you were. His life sets an example of doing the moral thing from the time he was born until the present day. All he ever got from Cooperland was a royal screwing. Someone, anyone, should have the courage to stand up to the people who say otherwise. If you can't handle the job, I will do it for you gladly. 

Robert, if I came on here and told you to have a nice day, somehow you would find a way to respond to that and make it about Shutter, EU or Bruce or someone else. You really need help.

Edited by ParrotheadVol

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42 minutes ago, ParrotheadVol said:

Robert, if I came on here and told you to have a nice day, somehow you would find a way to respond to that and make it about Shutter, EU or Bruce or someone else. You really need help.

Bruce and EU are the ones who need help there Parrot. Shutter I do not have much opinion about one way or another. I don't think he's necessarily a bad guy, but I also believe his community approach is flawed. 

Let me present something straight up to you here. I'm about the only person in Cooperland who gives it to people straight...without playing favorites...and without identifying myself with some closed-group clique. Maybe that's why Blast continues to move plenty of copies wholesale around the world almost ten years after its release, 30K people drop by the Cooper WordPress each month, there are 1,700+ folks signed for the Quora Cooper feed, and why we got the first-ever dramatic feature film on Cooper. A project, I might add...that most of you were approached about...and that most of you rejected out of hand. 

I don't believe in popularity contests in Cooperland. I believe in the truth, even if it means occasionally calling people out about their negative behavior and whatever else is legit news in that world. Unfortunately, this can make you an unpopular figure among certain people. That group is relatively small, and still hasn't learned that cooperation goes a lot further than cheap attacks, lying about others, exclusion, and the whole rigamarole that seems to go with Cooperland. 

If some of you had jumped on board some of the proposed AB projects, such as the restoration of the Ariel Store, or our much better ideas for Cooper Conventions instead of listening to hustlers and fools...well, that's a whole another story. B)

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Once again this thread has been hijacked by personality conflictd, despite the fact more FBI documents have been released.

We have a parachute found in E. Fork Lewis River, no more than a mile or two from a break-in at a general store. We have new information about Tina Bar. And yet we talk about events outside the case...

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(edited)

On a happier note, Greg the Techie Guy and I are pretty well set on the weekend of June 3-5 for the final Cooper Campout. Craigslist says I have to allow (and invite) anyone and everyone in order to run the event ad there. Or people will red-flag it immediately for removal. So that's our official line. Everyone and anyone is invited. Realistically, if any of you in the greater Western WA area are even THINKING about showing up, you should arrange this with me first if you possibly can. 

The reason is...I have no idea how many people will show up at the determined spot. It could get full pretty quick. If you don't make some arrangements in advance, you could be camping on the other side of the lake, or up on one of the nearby hills. 

Greg and I plan to go a day or two early to set things up. You would not believe what is actually involved. These Craigslist event notices reach a hell of a lot more people than the ones where you are trying to sell your car or running a garage sale. I have absolutely no idea how many will show, and how it will all turn out. The only good thing is that generally nice folks are the only ones willing to drive a dirt road (well, only the last FIVE miles are actually dirt) twenty miles off the highway just to go camping. So far, we have eight confirmed going and a couple of maybes. And I haven't even run the CL notice yet. That comes in mid-May. :handpeace:

Partial list of the amenities:

Weber BBQ for public use. (Helps if you bring your own propane)
Two large public shelters.
Two media projectors and one 10' foot projection screen
Charging station for your devices
32" Samsung Smart TV
Professional First Aid kit w/extras
Night lighting
Portable stereo
Small library (no kidding)
Movies galore. Bring your favorites if you want.
Portable flush toilet and hot water shower with shower tent.
If fire restrictions are going, we bring the propane campfire setup. 
More stuff...but you get the idea. 

I think we've done five previous of these events. All were well-attended except for the one we did down near Mount Hood. Only a few people showed for that one. Started out with the roughest of gear and an old truck, but got better and more organized as they went on. Hard to believe this is the final one...a couple of nostalgic pictures below from one of the first ones. 

BigMessAtFirst2.jpg.36f06fa51f044ce049c3cc15796ef650.jpg

WhatTHEYdrove1.jpg.76b8675fd7710eeebdd594011894ffdd.jpg

WhatTHEYdrove2.jpg.54db295ef8b7a772f087f9825cfb3e75.jpg

I had to improve the supply delivery vehicle. :/

NewNissan31.jpg.5209b7c7e6c8065a51cb5feb3761488b.jpg

This is it, the final campout. Coming to a lake out on the Olympic Peninsula in June. We're pretty much bringing all the Cooper-related movies this time. Even Up The Creek, which is my least favorite. If you fish, bring a license. Lake is year-round allowed fishing. No motorized watercraft except those with electric motors. 

StandingCa2t.jpg.8b2472c7efb8a36f43a73161f1170053.jpg

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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10 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Bruce and EU are the ones who need help there Parrot. Shutter I do not have much opinion about one way or another. I don't think he's necessarily a bad guy, but I also believe his community approach is flawed. 

Then take it up with them! Quit preaching to me about these guys like I'm their damn keeper. No one on here gives a damn about your issues with those guys..no one! I really do think that it's time for whoever moderates this forum to step in and put and end to your continuous posting about another forum and it's members that don't even post here.

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14 minutes ago, ParrotheadVol said:

Andrade - I'm thinking about giving your book a read. What is the best place to download it from and is there a hard copy as well? If so, what is the price difference between electronic and hard copy?

It's available on Kindle and in hard copy on Amazon. If you pm me I can dropship a copy to you. I used to give out the pdf version but I'm currently editing another edition, so I've stopped doing that until I finish the revisions.

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12 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

I have never spent any time on the McChord Parachutes..

 

As usual,, a quick scan shows conflicting stories. 

 

Cooper requested chutes from McChord.

Cooper wondered why it was taking so long citing McChord time distance.

Military chutes were rushed to Sea Tac from McChord.

Cooper learned of the chutes from McChord, rejected them and requested sport chutes.

Cooper used the military chute.

 

So, what is the deal with the McChord chutes..

In one of the conversations she had with him, she re-

marked that the parachutes were coming from McChord Air Force

Base at which time he remarked that it was only about twenty

minutes from McChord to the Seattle-Tacoma airport and which

was apparently an accurate estimate., 


FBI part 26 #8883

 

Himmelsbach..

"He specifically asked for parachutes from nearby McChord Air Force Base, showing some familiarity with the area.”

 

Tina interview..

While waiting on the ground at Sea-Tac for the parachutes, the hijacker became annoyed and Miss MUCKLOW told him the parachutes were coming from McChord. The hi-jacker then said, “McChord is only 20 minutes from Tacoma; it doesn't take that long."

 

News report..

Cooper at first had ordered two parachutes, which were brought out from McChord. They were the military type, which must be opened wtth a static cord linked to the plane. It would open the chute after western Washington state to a 200-foot fall. 


Cooper then ordered two more. Airline officials did not say whether Cooper specific the type, but the second set were sports models, obtained at a skydiving field east os Seattle. A sports ‘chute would allow a man to free-fall several thousand feet before opening the parachute.

-----

 

Anybody have anything more on the McChord chutes..

 

Clearly, they wouldn't send static chutes and they must have had bailout rigs.. 

The McChord chute stories don't make sense..

 

 

This FBI doc seems to suggest there were two separate "deliveries" of two back chutes.

One set was Hayden's.. Was the other Cossey or McChord?

 

4backchutes.jpeg.9738fb3662782da86571b447094b8267.jpeg

Edited by FLYJACK

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54 minutes ago, ParrotheadVol said:

Then take it up with them! Quit preaching to me about these guys like I'm their damn keeper. No one on here gives a damn about your issues with those guys..no one! I really do think that it's time for whoever moderates this forum to step in and put and end to your continuous posting about another forum and it's members that don't even post here.

Figures you would jump on board the exclusion boat and suggest voices be silenced. I only REPORT news in Cooperland. I don't try to shut it down or filter it to suit a few folks' vision of what is proper, and what is not. I leave that job to folks like Sarah P. B) If you didn't like my post about the Cooper Campout, or believe I pick on certain deserving folks a bit too much, you REALLY won't like THIS one. (*laughs*)
BadPlan.jpg.5b8710e87aaa76f7e96302625c13188c.jpg

 

 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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46 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

In one of the conversations she had with him, she re-

marked that the parachutes were coming from McChord Air Force

Base at which time he remarked that it was only about twenty

minutes from McChord to the Seattle-Tacoma airport and which

was apparently an accurate estimate., 


FBI part 26 #8883

 

Himmelsbach..

"He specifically asked for parachutes from nearby McChord Air Force Base, showing some familiarity with the area.”

 

Tina interview..

While waiting on the ground at Sea-Tac for the parachutes, the hijacker became annoyed and Miss MUCKLOW told him the parachutes were coming from McChord. The hi-jacker then said, “McChord is only 20 minutes from Tacoma; it doesn't take that long."

 

News report..

Cooper at first had ordered two parachutes, which were brought out from McChord. They were the military type, which must be opened wtth a static cord linked to the plane. It would open the chute after western Washington state to a 200-foot fall. 


Cooper then ordered two more. Airline officials did not say whether Cooper specific the type, but the second set were sports models, obtained at a skydiving field east os Seattle. A sports ‘chute would allow a man to free-fall several thousand feet before opening the parachute.

-----

 

Anybody have anything more on the McChord chutes..

 

Clearly, they wouldn't send static chutes and they must have had bailout rigs.. 

The McChord chute stories don't make sense..

 

 

This FBI doc seems to suggest there were two separate "deliveries" of two back chutes.

One set was Hayden's.. Was the other Cossey or McChord?

 

4backchutes.jpeg.9738fb3662782da86571b447094b8267.jpeg

It would be incredible if Cooper got the military chutes from McChord and not one of Hayden's...

To think the FBI ignored at least half a dozen parachute finds because they didn't match their now called-into-question records...

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52 minutes ago, Andrade1812 said:

It would be incredible if Cooper got the military chutes from McChord and not one of Hayden's...

To think the FBI ignored at least half a dozen parachute finds because they didn't match their now called-into-question records...

Cooper did not take one of Hayden's back chutes..

The year and serial number on the packing card found in the pocket of the back chute left on the plane doesn't match the one Hayden got back.. the packing dates and packer Cossey do match indicated they are the pair from Hayden.. both of Hayden's chutes are accounted for.

So, Cooper used another..  Cossey's or McChord's?

Edited by FLYJACK

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45 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

Cooper did not take one of Hayden's back chutes..

The year and serial number on the packing card found in the pocket of the back chute left on the plane doesn't match the one Hayden got back.. the packing dates and packer Cossey do match indicated they are the pair from Hayden.. both of Hayden's chutes are accounted for.

So, Cooper took Cossey's or McChord's..  

Flyjack, cut the nonsense! 

First, Cooper specifically ruled out parachutes coming from McChord and with good reason.  Military parachutes in 1971 carried pingers so that air rescue people could locate the parachutist even before he hit the ground.

Second, no mention is made of military static line parachutes in Cooper's demands and they are certainly not sports parachutes.  They would have been useless to Cooper.

Third, there is no confusion about where the chest pack reserve parachutes came from.  They were delivered to the NWA cargo facility at SEATAC by a Washington State Highway Patrolman shortly after 5:00 PM and were the last of Cooper's demands to arrive.

Fourth, the Hayden parachutes may, repeat may, have been sent initially to a Boeing facility at Boeing Field rather than SEATAC.  But they found their way to SEATAC in short order and were the ones placed on the airliner.  There were no other back pack parachutes involved.

Fifth, Hayden got one of his parachutes back and the FBI paid him for the one that Cooper used in his jump.

All Flyjack is trying to do is make this another of his "bundle" or "packet" kind of arguments. 

Edited by Robert99

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38 minutes ago, Robert99 said:

Flyjack, cut the nonsense! 

First, Cooper specifically ruled out parachutes coming from McChord and with good reason.  Military parachutes in 1971 carried pingers so that air rescue people could locate the parachutist even before he hit the ground.

Second, no mention is made of military static line parachutes in Cooper's demands and they are certainly not sports parachutes.  They would have been useless to Cooper.

Third, there is no confusion about where the chest pack reserve parachutes came from.  They were delivered to the NWA cargo facility at SEATAC by a Washington State Highway Patrolman shortly after 5:00 PM and were the last of Cooper's demands to arrive.

Fourth, the Hayden parachutes may, repeat may, have been sent initially to a Boeing facility at Boeing Field rather than SEATAC.  But they found their way to SEATAC in short order and were the ones placed on the airliner.  There were no other back pack parachutes involved.

Fifth, Hayden got one of his parachutes back and the FBI paid him for the one that Cooper used in his jump.

All Flyjack is trying to do is make this another of his "bundle" or "packet" kind of arguments. 

Robert99,

Get a grip, your comments are way off the mark and demonstrate a level of ignorance I don't expect from you. You are conflating my comments with the "conflicting" reports I quoted.

I am trying to sort this out. 

PAY ATTENTION ROBERT99.... you are embarrassing yourself.

Himmelsbach said Cooper requested chutes from McChord..  ???

Then Tina told Cooper the chutes were coming from McChord and he said it shouldn't take that long... So, he CLEARLY thought the military chutes were coming from McChord. Then when did he reject them? IF he did.

The news article claimed Cooper rejected the McChord chutes because they were static line. That doesn't make any sense..  NOBODY ever said Cooper demanded static chutes.

Yes, the front reserves came from Sky Sports via state Trooper, nobody is challenging that. This is about the back chutes only.

Hayden did send in his two chutes by cab. He received back one he thought was left on the plane but the packing cards DO NOT MATCH. Get it, Cooper did not jump with either of Hayden's chutes.. There must have been another set of back chutes from either Cossey or McChord.

Two similar back chutes were sent from Hayden by cab. Both packed by Cossey the same date.

1) Packed by Cossey May 21/71 manufactured 1960 S/N 60-9707. This was left on the plane confirmed by card found in chute pocket.

2) Packed by Cossey May 21/71 manufactured 1957 S/N 226. Confirmed by packing card in chute. This was returned to Hayden then went to museum.

 

Both of Hayden's chutes are accounted for.... what did Cooper jump with???

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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(edited)

Parachutes...

 

Robert, if you've got someone looking into the Sky Sports angle, it would be interesting if he can figure how they ended up with that dummy training reserve. Typically there are a few places you'd find parachutes at a drop zone. One, in the rigging loft, where you'd find reserves that are due for repacks, or other gear in need of maintenance. The rigger might keep his personal gear there. Two, if there are regular instructors, there might be a 'locker' type area where they keep their personal gear; otherwise they would just take their gear home with them. If there is a separate area where the pilots' stuff is kept, that might be where you'd find the bailout rigs. Jump pilots in smaller planes are required to wear them, the pilots in bigger planes don't need to wear them, but bailout rigs are kept on board and available to the pilots. Those rigs might also be kept in the loft. The main place you'd find gear, though, would be where they keep the student gear. The drop zone keeps and supplies the gear for student jumpers. If the drop zone was asked for gear for a hijacking, what would make sense to me would be that they would give student gear. It's nobody's personal gear and in those days would have been relatively cheap. That dummy reserve should be nowhere near any of those places. That should be kept in the classroom or training area. Normally there's a hanging harness somewhere where the students practice their emergency procedures, and that's where that dummy reserve would be used. There should be no way that that training aid could get mixed up with actual gear. Could you imagine if that thing got put on a student for an actual jump? I have a thought that that dummy reserve might have been given on purpose. There's the theory that Cooper asked for two complete rigs so that they would give him good ones (not sabotaged) for fear that he might make Tina jump with him. Perhaps they gave him the dummy reserve to discourage that.

 

The McChord military rigs - I had not heard that Cooper had requested gear from them, but I had heard that he had rejected the idea. What makes sense to me is that any military/paratrooper gear would indeed be set up for static line, which would be useless to him. He certainly would not have requested static line gear, but he would have rejected it. Perhaps McChord then sent bailout rigs, because they're ripcord rigs.

 

The backpack gear. It's curious to me that he didn't get any sport mains, but that he got bailout rigs. Now, whuffos don't know the difference in gear, so it's certainly feasible for the FBI guy to just go to the local Flight Service and ask about chutes, somebody there knows Hayden and gets them from him. But it is curious that it doesn't occur to Hayden or the Flight Service guy that 'that''s probably not what he's looking for'. But if any backpacks come from Cossey or the drop zone, they certainly would know the difference, that the bailout rigs aren't suitable for an intentional jump, and not compatible with the front reserves. Also, I can't imagine that if the drop zone is asked for just the front reserves, they wouldn't ask where the mains are coming from. I suppose the same thought is possible here, that they give him totally inappropriate gear so that he doesn't make Tina jump.

 

Nobody else seems to give any credence to Flyjack's theory about both of Hayden's chutes being accounted for, but I do. Pack-and-data cards are federal documents. They stay with the gear. They include the make, model, date-of-manufacture and serial number of the parachute inside. If the numbers don't match between the rig left on the plane and the one Hayden got back, then they're not the same rig. Also, the way that the FBI deals with 'evidence' (just consider the Amboy chute), I can't imagine that they would give back the rig that was left on the plane. I would imagine they still have that.

 

Edited by dudeman17

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I have waded through the parachute posts:

I will admit there SEEMS to be a conflict here regarding the number of parachutes actually delivered to the airport. But the FBI doc is confusing. Why do they make time references like 12:25 AM and 2:00AM? The hijacking happened in the late afternoon, and the whole thing was over (Cooper jumped) prior to 8:30PM. That's pretty weird unless they were going by Greenwich Mean time or something. 

I'll be honest. I don't think it matters a whole lot how many chutes were delivered to SeaTac, but only if the one Cooper jumped with, should it be discovered...can be identified. Otherwise it's much like if either four, six, or eight meals were delivered to the plane, and which one Cooper ate, if any of them. It doesn't really matter. Chutes were delivered. One was used. The dummy reserve probably went out the back door. I don't see much importance here in this issue, unless there is a discrepancy, a failure-to-identify, if someone at some future date finds a parachute in the right place. 

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9 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

I have waded through the parachute posts:

I will admit there SEEMS to be a conflict here regarding the number of parachutes actually delivered to the airport. But the FBI doc is confusing. Why do they make time references like 12:25 AM and 2:00AM? The hijacking happened in the late afternoon, and the whole thing was over (Cooper jumped) prior to 8:30PM. That's pretty weird unless they were going by Greenwich Mean time or something. 

I'll be honest. I don't think it matters a whole lot how many chutes were delivered to SeaTac, but only if the one Cooper jumped with, should it be discovered...can be identified. Otherwise it's much like if either four, six, or eight meals were delivered to the plane, and which one Cooper ate, if any of them. It doesn't really matter. Chutes were delivered. One was used. The dummy reserve probably went out the back door. I don't see much importance here in this issue, unless there is a discrepancy, a failure-to-identify, if someone at some future date finds a parachute in the right place. 

The reason it matters is because the FBI may have been looking for the wrong chute the whole time..

One of the chutes already found may have been the one Cooper used but was prematurely rejected because it didn't match the description.

The two packing cards show that Cooper did not use either of Hayden's chutes, that leaves Cossey's chute claim or even possibly chutes from McChord.

 

One piece of evidence really makes me wonder..

Tina told Cooper the chutes were coming from McChord, Cooper said it shouldn't take long..

So, Cooper clearly thought they were coming from McChord and military..  when did he reject them?, I don't think he did. Cooper thought the chutes he ultimately received came from McChord, even if they didn't.

 

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1 hour ago, dudeman17 said:

Parachutes...

 

Robert, if you've got someone looking into the Sky Sports angle, it would be interesting if he can figure how they ended up with that dummy training reserve. Typically there are a few places you'd find parachutes at a drop zone. One, in the rigging loft, where you'd find reserves that are due for repacks, or other gear in need of maintenance. The rigger might keep his personal gear there. Two, if there are regular instructors, there might be a 'locker' type area where they keep their personal gear; otherwise they would just take their gear home with them. If there is a separate area where the pilots' stuff is kept, that might be where you'd find the bailout rigs. Jump pilots in smaller planes are required to wear them, the pilots in bigger planes don't need to wear them, but bailout rigs are kept on board and available to the pilots. Those rigs might also be kept in the loft. The main place you'd find gear, though, would be where they keep the student gear. The drop zone keeps and supplies the gear for student jumpers. If the drop zone was asked for gear for a hijacking, what would make sense to me would be that they would give student gear. It's nobody's personal gear and in those days would have been relatively cheap. That dummy reserve should be nowhere near any of those places. That should be kept in the classroom or training area. Normally there's a hanging harness somewhere where the students practice their emergency procedures, and that's where that dummy reserve would be used. There should be no way that that training aid could get mixed up with actual gear. Could you imagine if that thing got put on a student for an actual jump? I have a thought that that dummy reserve might have been given on purpose. There's the theory that Cooper asked for two complete rigs so that they would give him good ones (not sabotaged) for fear that he might make Tina jump with him. Perhaps they gave him the dummy reserve to discourage that.

 

The McChord military rigs - I had not heard that Cooper had requested gear from them, but I had heard that he had rejected the idea. What makes sense to me is that any military/paratrooper gear would indeed be set up for static line, which would be useless to him. He certainly would not have requested static line gear, but he would have rejected it. Perhaps McChord then sent bailout rigs, because they're ripcord rigs.

 

The backpack gear. It's curious to me that he didn't get any sport mains, but that he got bailout rigs. Now, whuffos don't know the difference in gear, so it's certainly feasible for the FBI guy to just go to the local Flight Service and ask about chutes, somebody there knows Hayden and gets them from him. But it is curious that it doesn't occur to Hayden or the Flight Service guy that 'that''s probably not what he's looking for'. But if any backpacks come from Cossey or the drop zone, they certainly would know the difference, that the bailout rigs aren't suitable for an intentional jump, and not compatible with the front reserves. Also, I can't imagine that if the drop zone is asked for just the front reserves, they wouldn't ask where the mains are coming from. I suppose the same thought is possible here, that they give him totally inappropriate gear so that he doesn't make Tina jump.

 

Nobody else seems to give any credence to Flyjack's theory about both of Hayden's chutes being accounted for, but I do. Pack-and-data cards are federal documents. They stay with the gear. They include the make, model, date-of-manufacture and serial number of the parachute inside. If the numbers don't match between the rig left on the plane and the one Hayden got back, then they're not the same rig. Also, the way that the FBI deals with 'evidence' (just consider the Amboy chute), I can't imagine that they would give back the rig that was left on the plane. I would imagine they still have that.

 

Let me say up front that I don't have the slightest idea how the bad reserve was given to Cooper.  But consider that the hijacking took place a few minutes after 3:00 PM PST and the reserves were in the NWA cargo facility by about 5:15 PM.  Also, the delivery of the reserves was delayed by heavy PM commuter traffic and apparently at least one traffic accident.  But I imagine that the WSHP made the entire run with his red lights on.

There is no indication of when the sky diver place was asked to provide the reserve chutes but it was probably at least 3:30 PM.  And it was probably a 30 minute drive under the existing circumstances to SEATAC.  This leaves about 75 minutes for the sky diver place to act or react.  Further, sunset was at about 4:45 PM, it was overcast with light rain, the late afternoon before a holiday, and I doubt if any of the sky diver trainers, or experienced jumpers, were at the facility.  I'll bet that anyone who kept their equipment at the sky diver facility kept it in a locker and locked up tight. 

So all of this leads me to suggest that probably only the office staff (maybe a couple of people) was still at the facility and they were hard pressed to find any reserve that wasn't locked up. They probably spotted the bad reserve, didn't know what the "X" meant, and thought they had solved one of their problems. 

Hayden reportedly kept his aircraft at the Boeing Airport, which is where the aviation museum is located.  Presumably, that is where Boeing Flight Services was located and their personnel were familiar with Hayden and his equipment.  So they call Hayden about his parachutes, Hayden sends them to Boeing Flight Services by taxi, and they presumably got them over to SEATAC by taxi or their own vehicles.

Boeing Flight Services may, or may not, have been the ones who contacted the sky diver operation about the reserve chutes.  There is no reason to believe that the FBI, other law enforcement agency, or NWA personnel at SEATAC, would be knowledgeable about the parachute equipment.

Frankly, I do not see a problem with the parachutes.    

  

Edited by Robert99

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3 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

The reason it matters is because the FBI may have been looking for the wrong chute the whole time..

One of the chutes already found may have been the one Cooper used but was prematurely rejected because it didn't match the description.

The two packing cards show that Cooper did not use either of Hayden's chutes, that leaves Cossey's chute claim or even possibly chutes from McChord.

 

One piece of evidence really makes me wonder..

Tina told Cooper the chutes were coming from McChord, Cooper said it shouldn't take long..

So, Cooper clearly thought they were coming from McChord and military..  when did he reject them?, I don't think he did. Cooper thought the chutes he ultimately received came from McChord, even if they didn't.

 

The FBI has rejected several pieces of parachute canopies as not having anything to do with the Cooper hijacking.  Some of those could be rejected on sight.  They had the wrong type canopy fabric, maybe wrong manufacturing stamps, or other issues that could immediately eliminate them from further consideration.  I do not see a problem here.

There is nothing to suggest that Cooper thought the back pack parachutes came from McChord.  He had earlier rejected McChord parachutes.  Cooper reportedly checked the packing cards in the back packs and should have been able to tell that they were not packed by the military or owned by the military.  And if all else fails on this point, check Cossey's packing logbook.  And again, I do not see a problem here.

Edited by Robert99

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1 hour ago, RobertMBlevins said:

I have waded through the parachute posts:

I will admit there SEEMS to be a conflict here regarding the number of parachutes actually delivered to the airport. But the FBI doc is confusing. Why do they make time references like 12:25 AM and 2:00AM? The hijacking happened in the late afternoon, and the whole thing was over (Cooper jumped) prior to 8:30PM. That's pretty weird unless they were going by Greenwich Mean time or something. 

I'll be honest. I don't think it matters a whole lot how many chutes were delivered to SeaTac, but only if the one Cooper jumped with, should it be discovered...can be identified. Otherwise it's much like if either four, six, or eight meals were delivered to the plane, and which one Cooper ate, if any of them. It doesn't really matter. Chutes were delivered. One was used. The dummy reserve probably went out the back door. I don't see much importance here in this issue, unless there is a discrepancy, a failure-to-identify, if someone at some future date finds a parachute in the right place. 

GMT is 8 hours ahead of PST.  The Air Traffic Control recordings automatically recorded in GMT.  So you would have to subtract 8 hours to get the PST time.  Be sure to double check the time hacks on the ARINC teletype messages to insure that you are using the right time.

It should be kept in mind that the FBI were not able to contact Cossey until after midnight (or very early on November 25th).

There is absolutely nothing to suggest that more than 4 parachutes total were delivered to SEATAC and none of them came from McChord.

Only 4 meals were delivered to the aircraft and none of them were eaten.  Reportedly, the search dogs in Reno ate them.

Cooper would probably have had a better chance of surviving if he discarded the dummy reserve.  With a jury rigged dummy reserve, a money bag, and maybe other things tied to himself, he would be very aerodynamically unstable. 

  

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8 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Robert99,

Get a grip, your comments are way off the mark and demonstrate a level of ignorance I don't expect from you. You are conflating my comments with the "conflicting" reports I quoted.

I am trying to sort this out. 

PAY ATTENTION ROBERT99.... you are embarrassing yourself.

Himmelsbach said Cooper requested chutes from McChord..  ???

Then Tina told Cooper the chutes were coming from McChord and he said it shouldn't take that long... So, he CLEARLY thought the military chutes were coming from McChord. Then when did he reject them? IF he did.

The news article claimed Cooper rejected the McChord chutes because they were static line. That doesn't make any sense..  NOBODY ever said Cooper demanded static chutes.

Yes, the front reserves came from Sky Sports via state Trooper, nobody is challenging that. This is about the back chutes only.

Hayden did send in his two chutes by cab. He received back one he thought was left on the plane but the packing cards DO NOT MATCH. Get it, Cooper did not jump with either of Hayden's chutes.. There must have been another set of back chutes from either Cossey or McChord.

Two similar back chutes were sent from Hayden by cab. Both packed by Cossey the same date.

1) Packed by Cossey May 21/71 manufactured 1960 S/N 60-9707. This was left on the plane confirmed by card found in chute pocket.

2) Packed by Cossey May 21/71 manufactured 1957 S/N 226. Confirmed by packing card in chute. This was returned to Hayden then went to museum.

 

Both of Hayden's chutes are accounted for.... what did Cooper jump with???

 

Hayden reportedly had to go to court to get his remaining back pack parachute from the FBI.  Also, the FBI reportedly paid Hayden about $40 for the parachute that Cooper jumped with.  So just exactly what is your problem here.

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