DB Cooper

[Math of Insects 96]

39 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

Well it’s not just the ones that made it all their way to the FBI but there were other reports of chutes that weren’t passed along by local law enforcement for being outside of the original DZ i.e. “thanks for the call but the FBI are searching about 10 miles north of here.”

There was one in particular that was spotted by a Vietnam vet who was fishing next to the railroad bridge across from Portland. He and a friend saw a conical white chute snagged on one of the pilings floating in the water. They reported it to Vancouver PD who apparently failed to notify the FBI about it.

I remember reading about that, but I thought that in the end it had proven not to be possible that it was Cooper’s. Either the date was wrong, or there turned out not to be a chute there. I can’t remember the details. Do you?

[Andrade1812 51]

1 hour ago, Robert99 said:

I presume Andrade Senior went through the airborne school training during a summer while he was at the USAFA.

It was right after he completed pilot training, Summer 68 I believe.

[olemisscub 466]

39 minutes ago, Math of Insects said:

I remember reading about that, but I thought that in the end it had proven not to be possible that it was Cooper’s. Either the date was wrong, or there turned out not to be a chute there. I can’t remember the details. Do you?

Chaucer knows the details of this better than I do. 

[Chaucer 103]

27 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

Chaucer knows the details of this better than I do. 

Here's the story from the son of the gentleman in question:

 The son said that ten days after NORJACK, his father and his father's best friend (who had recently been discharged from the military) were down by the Burlington Northern Railroad Bridge 9.6 . While down by the Vancouver side near the water, they found a parachute canopy snagged on a log under the bridge. The father's friend immediately recognized it as a military canopy. With the recent Cooper hijacking on their minds, they left and called the Vancouver PD. The dispatcher literally laughed at them on the phone and never even bothered to file a report. They went back the next day and the canopy was gone. 

I do not know which branch of the military the friend was in. If he had been in the Navy and recognized a Navy-style chute, then that's pretty remarkable IMO. 

For reference, Tena Bar is approximately 10 miles downstream from this location.

I have the names of those involved, but the father is very ill and the friend is deceased. The son of the friend is alive and well, and could provide additional details about his father's experience, but the name is very common so a search for him has proved fruitless. 

[FLYJACK 654]

3 hours ago, Robert99 said:

Regardless of what the card says, the canopy is much too large to be a 26-foot conical canopy.

The 26-foot conical canopy had several unique features which included the shroud lines being sewn into the risers rather than being joined by separable links. Also, the shroud lines stopped at the canopy skirt and cloth tapes went over the top of the canopy and joined the shroud lines at the skirt on the opposite side.  

The end result is that the 26-foot conical canopy could be packed in a much smaller volume than the 28-foot canopy.  Presumably, 377 packed his 26-foot reserve in the same container that originally held a 24-foot reserve.

While on this subject, my 26-foot conical canopy's container had a small zipper pocket inside the container, and underneath the packed shroud lines, that could hold small pieces of survival type items.  A tracker could have been placed inside this pocket and the jumper would never have had any idea that it was there.

It is a 26' footer in a 24' container.

[FLYJACK 654]

There was a chute found in the South Fork Lewis between the Heisson Bridge and Lucia Falls,, about a mile from the Heisson store. Approx. 4-5 mile drift from the FP at 8:13.. The River has big floods..

The chute was never looked at because it was described as orange and white... Cossey claimed the chute was all white.. but his description was unreliable.

Its proximity to Heisson store and FP make it interesting.. and railroad tracks follow the River there and go past Heisson store..

 

 

Edited July 14, 2023 by FLYJACK

[olemisscub 466]

There were lots of those orange and white chutes found. It's my understanding that orange and white canopies usually indicate a weather balloon. However, they should have at least taken a look at it to figure out the size of the thing. 

[FLYJACK 654]

There are orange and white military chutes..

Another rejected by Cossey for being 24'..

[olemisscub 466]

21 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

There are orange and white military chutes..

Another rejected by Cossey for being 24'..

ouch. That one is tough. 

[FLYJACK 654]

I found lots of images of radiosonde weather balloons,, the balloon is usually white and the recovery chute all orange but it is very small..  looks more like a toy.. 

But, maybe they changed over the years.. IDK  

Edited July 15, 2023 by FLYJACK

[CooperNWO305 146]

I think it was Martin who said there were chutes that were orange, green, and white. Orange to signal, white to hide in snow, green to hide in the forest. I remember finding that interesting. 

[Andrade1812 51]

I found a few different color schemes for military chutes. White, orange white, and the quad color (green, brown, white and orange)

[Math of Insects 96]

14 hours ago, olemisscub said:

ouch. That one is tough. 

I wonder if it’s possible to find out who the contributor was, or at least where it was found.

[olemisscub 466]

Freaking Mac. He never disappoints. 

 

[olemisscub 466]

What do we think this description of the note means? It's written rather wonky. Is this saying that MISS was the only word in print and the rest was in cursive? Or does the "was printed" line mean the agent trying to say "all caps" before that phrase was in the vernacular? In other words, do we think it is option 1 or option 2?

[Coopericane 44]

53 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

What do we think this description of the note means? It's written rather wonky. Is this saying that MISS was the only word in print and the rest was in cursive? Or does the "was printed" line mean the agent trying to say "all caps" before that phrase was in the vernacular? In other words, do we think it is option 1 or option 2?

Maybe this is the wrong interpretation, but I've always thought it meant the word "MISS" was literally printed? Like, it was printed onto a piece of paper using a typewriter, and then the rest of the note was handwritten. Maybe I'm being too literal, but that's how it comes across to me.

Edited July 16, 2023 by Coopericane

[FLYJACK 654]

1 hour ago, olemisscub said:

What do we think this description of the note means? It's written rather wonky. Is this saying that MISS was the only word in print and the rest was in cursive? Or does the "was printed" line mean the agent trying to say "all caps" before that phrase was in the vernacular? In other words, do we think it is option 1 or option 2?

Welcome to the Vortex,, you can check out but you can never leave..

I always read that as MISS printed the rest written cursive.

 

We don't even know if the text was accurate..  it was recall.. so we have a few versions.

Cockpit note.. slightly different.

Another version.

Edited July 16, 2023 by FLYJACK

[olemisscub 466]

1 hour ago, FLYJACK said:

Welcome to the Vortex,, you can check out but you can never leave..

I always read that as MISS printed the rest written cursive.

 

We don't even know if the text was accurate..  it was recall.. so we have a few versions.

Cockpit note.. slightly different.

 

Yeah, I knew about the multiple discrepancies. Very frustrating. 

I'm just going to roll with the print followed by cursive as well. 

[georger 197]

19 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

Yeah, I knew about the multiple discrepancies. Very frustrating. 

I'm just going to roll with the print followed by cursive as well. 

When did he write the note?  Before or after boarding and seated. ?

[olemisscub 466]

1 minute ago, georger said:

When did he write the note?  Before or after boarding and seated. ?

It was surely already written. It was in an envelope. He was smart enough not to leave his envelope inside the terminal like McCoy did...

[FLYJACK 654]

One thing that has always bugged me..

The hijacker's first note and the one written by Flo,,  were asked for and returned to him..

Later, the destination demand and plane configuration was conveyed through Tina.. it implies that was via the inter-phone only...

So, Cooper tells Tina, she has to understand, she tells the cockpit and they have to understand...

That demand could have been easily been miscommunicated going between the three parties, not exactly what Cooper actually wanted.

Edited July 16, 2023 by FLYJACK

[Chaucer 103]

I'm disappointed that none of the note version say "Nod if you understand."

[Chaucer 103]

12 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

One thing that has always bugged me..

The hijacker's first note and the one written by Flo,,  were asked for and returned to him..

Later, the destination demand and plane configuration was conveyed through Tina.. it implies that was via the inter-phone only...

So, Cooper tells Tina, she has to understand, she tells the cockpit and they have to understand...

That demand could have been easily been miscommunicated going between the three parties, not exactly what Cooper actually wanted.

I think that game of telephone absolutely caused confusion - both then and after the fact. For example, the demand of how he wanted the airstairs. He wants them deployed after takeoff, then down AT takeoff, and then gets talked into having them up again. I think that is almost certainly a case of Chinese Whispers between Cooper, Tina, Rat, and Al Lee.

[olemisscub 466]

49 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

One thing that has always bugged me..

The hijacker's first note and the one written by Flo,,  were asked for and returned to him..

Later, the destination demand and plane configuration was conveyed through Tina.. it implies that was via the inter-phone only...

So, Cooper tells Tina, she has to understand, she tells the cockpit and they have to understand...

That demand could have been easily been miscommunicated going between the three parties, not exactly what Cooper actually wanted.

One thing I’ve come to realize lately is just how different Cooper is once he gets his money. He becomes a different dude almost.

A good example is how stupid he is when he doesn’t demand to receive the knapsack. He spends an hour and a half wasting time playing with nylon cords when all he needed to do was say “Hey, get my damn knapsack” and they’d have grabbed it off some kid in the airport and given it to Cooper in five minutes.

Cooper kind of becomes a passive actor in many ways once he gets the money. 

[georger 197]

3 hours ago, olemisscub said:

One thing I’ve come to realize lately is just how different Cooper is once he gets his money. He becomes a different dude almost.

A good example is how stupid he is when he doesn’t demand to receive the knapsack. He spends an hour and a half wasting time playing with nylon cords when all he needed to do was say “Hey, get my damn knapsack” and they’d have grabbed it off some kid in the airport and given it to Cooper in five minutes.

Cooper kind of becomes a passive actor in many ways once he gets the money. 

I dont agree at all. Remember he got angry about them not including a knapsack - he complained to Tina about it. He not only complained he went further and 'explained' how was going to have to make up for the omission! That is arrogance.

Maybe it blindsided him. It may indicate he is an arrogant person. He might say 'focused'. (I'll show them!) Confident he could come up with something that would be adequate he went ahead on his own. That is just the opposite of passivity. And perhaps what he came up with on his own did not work!

I think if he hadnt thought he could put something together that would work he would have snapped back: get me the damned knapsack NOW@!  (Stop wasting my time.) His arrogance shines through. After all - he is hijacking a commercial plane! Hijacking is aggressive and arrogant, by definition. He is serious - this is no mistake!

Maybe not blowing up the plane indicates passivity ?  

Edited July 16, 2023 by georger