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DB Cooper

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(edited)

Well...Ha Ha Ha is total fiction, of course. The area south of Lake Merwin and down toward Woodland is mostly rolling hills, somewhat wooded, yes. Not the total wilderness that people have made it out to be. If we're going to bust another myth in the Cooper case, let's bust the one about the weather. Many people claim that there was a big storm that day. In reality, it was a dreary day with that misty rain stuff here and there. And at around 8PM the winds dropped to their lowest ground level speed of the day. Below is a snapshot from the historical weather record, via Portland International Airport. Data from Weather Underground, 11/24/1971. PDX:

Weather1.jpg.8f64c568442e65063480fdb835b37fb6.jpg

Looking at this partial record, what it really means is THIS:  At the time Cooper jumped, winds were a mild 7-10MPH at ground level. It was about 42 degrees. Rain must have been extremely light. There are only two entries totaling less than 0.2 inches over a fifteen hour period just prior, and into the next afternoon following the hijacking. It was probably typical dreary November weather, but no storm at all. (At the time of the hijacking I was living in Sumner, Washington which is not far from Tacoma. This weather report pretty much matches what I saw that day up in Sumner.) Everyone and his brother were glued to the TV by the way...watching the drama play out at the airport. :o  

You can view the full data available for that day at PDX (Portland Airport) at Weather Underground HERE

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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(edited)

Derek: I have sent you a friendly message. 

On another note let's remember Ha Ha Ha is NOT a true story. 9_9 I have examined this book on a professional level, having edited over sixty books in my part-time career, and was paid for that service on most of them. The book was pro-edited, for sure. The writer had written professionally PRIOR to Ha Ha Ha. You can tell by the quality of the work. (In other words, the book was the not the first thing he ever wrote.) Even the cover was a pro job all the way, with the sharp images and that embossed cover. But it IS fiction, folks. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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3 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Well...Ha Ha Ha is total fiction, of course. The area south of Lake Merwin and down toward Woodland is mostly rolling hills, somewhat wooded, yes. Not the total wilderness that people have made it out to be. If we're going to bust another myth in the Cooper case, let's bust the one about the weather. Many people claim that there was a big storm that day. In reality, it was a dreary day with that misty rain stuff here and there. And at around 8PM the winds dropped to their lowest ground level speed of the day. Below is a snapshot from the historical weather record, via Portland International Airport. Data from Weather Underground, 11/24/1971. PDX:

Weather1.jpg.8f64c568442e65063480fdb835b37fb6.jpg

Looking at this partial record, what it really means is THIS:  At the time Cooper jumped, winds were a mild 7-10MPH at ground level. It was about 42 degrees. Rain must have been extremely light. There are only two entries totaling less than 0.2 inches over a fifteen hour period just prior, and into the next afternoon following the hijacking. It was probably typical dreary November weather, but no storm at all. (At the time of the hijacking I was living in Sumner, Washington which is not far from Tacoma. This weather report pretty much matches what I saw that day up in Sumner.) Everyone and his brother were glued to the TV by the way...watching the drama play out at the airport. :o  

You can view the full data available for that day at PDX (Portland Airport) at Weather Underground HERE

What is interesting is that the wind was from ESE 8mph at 8 PM and changee to from the S..

What was it near Arial... at 8 PM

The Placard was found directly under the flight path, it left the plane about 8:03. An ESE wind would be consistent with that.

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(edited)

I don't know the wind speed at Ariel around jump time. It was probably similar to what shows for the Portland Airport. If you go to Weather Underground and search the historical weather record on Hijacking Day for the SeaTac Airport, it's pretty close to the same thing as what was happening in Portland. 

I suppose my main point was to discount the myth that there was a 'big storm' on the night of the hijacking. Just didn't happen. Misty drizzle crap mostly, almost no wind. Ground speed winds would be different than at 7,000 feet though. The pictures from the Cowlitz County Sheriff's notebook show that. Now in the Gorge along the Columbia River in Portland, that is always crazy. It's why people windsurf there in summer. But Cooper almost certainly did NOT jump over the Columbia. 

There is one thing, though. If Northwest Airlines guy Paul Soderlind had anything to do with that flight path map and worked with the FBI to create it, you can bet it's pretty accurate. Soderlind was no slouch and some of the things he came up with are still in use today regarding the flying of passenger jets. He's in the Minnesota Aviation Hall of Fame, and certainly no dummy. NWA considers him one of the smartest, if not THE smartest and innovative guy who ever worked for them. And yes, he and his team had input on it. 

Just saying.  
EDIT: Some of the internet references to Soderlind have vanished over the last few years, but NOT his induction into the Minnesota Aviation Hall of Fame. He was directly involved in everything NWA-related on the night of the hijacking. I have some pictures of him on my computer somewhere. I can post them later, will have to search them out. He was flight ops director for NWA on Hijacking Night, and he and his team were definitely involved in what was happening that evening, as well as anything later with the FBI. 

Paul A. Soderlind
1923 - 2001
 

Montana native Paul Soderlind received his private license on his 18th birthday. At age 19 he went to work for Northwest Airlines as an instrument instructor and flew in the Northern Region during World War II. He joined the Navy in 1944 and flew with Naval Air Transport Command.

Soderlind returned to Northwest after the war and developed many safety procedures. He eventually became director of technical flight operations, a unit that plans cockpit procedures. He and Don Sowa produced Northwest’s Turbulence Plot Program to detect wind shear and other high altitude turbulence.

Inducted 1996

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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The winds are important, the PDX data suggests it wasn't constant but shifting from ESE and that affects both the placard and Cooper's parachute drift..

The assumption has always been a universally constant wind.. pushing Cooper E of flight path.

 

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(edited)
2 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

The winds are important, the PDX data suggests it wasn't constant but shifting from ESE and that affects both the placard and Cooper's parachute drift..

The assumption has always been a universally constant wind.. pushing Cooper E of flight path.

 

Well...they DID find the Amboy chute east of the flight path by a couple of miles. I never bought into the FBI's lame explanation on it, and for a number of reasons. Some really funny stuff went on that week in 2008 when they found that parachute. You could read the sort-of complicated article I linked there, or I can just give the short version:

  • FBI digs up chute, brings it back to Seattle. 
  • FBI claims that several experts were consulted on the chute, but AB of Seattle finds out that any 'experts,' were actually contacted only by telephone. 
  • Earl Cossey is the only civilian known to have seen the chute. The FBI took it up to his house in Woodinville. He dismisses it with hardly a look. 
  • Cossey tells media two things. "It's made of silk and the one I gave Cooper was nylon." And, "I knew it wasn't Cooper's in less than ten seconds." Pictures of the chute released by the FBI to Seattle media show the chute is almost certainly NOT made of silk. A simple test would have determined this anyway, but if anyone did it, it was never announced. 
  • Seattle FBI claimed (on the Wednesday prior to their eventual dismissal) that the chute was being sent upstairs to their lab for examination, but Cossey saw the chute the NEXT day, and then the FBI dismissed it as evidence soon afterward. 
  • The day Cossey was shown the chute, he told Seattle media that the chute WAS Cooper's as a joke, and almost got a reporter fired from his job. 
  • Cossey was known to tell reporters he owned at least some of the chutes given to Cooper, and that was not true. This calls into question his motivations to identify a chute as Cooper's, because if he does, it will also come out that he was less than truthful over the years about ownership. (This may or may not matter.)
  • There was no container or harness found with the chute, which means a human being had to disconnect them and take them elsewhere, even if it was a cargo chute. Where did they go? Maybe Cooper ditched the bank bag for the container, in order to hold the money in something not so obvious. And why would someone take the time to remove a container and harness from a chute and bury it anyway? 
  • To this day, inquiries about the Amboy chute to the Seattle FBI are answered in this way:  "We cannot discuss the parachute found in Amboy. It is evidence in an ongoing case..."  (This may or may not mean anything, but they WERE discussing it with the media after its discovery, and they dismissed it.) So why would it be 'evidence in an ongoing case' later?

There is more, but that's the basics. The whole thing smells like a whitewash if you ask me. I know that if the FBI had to admit it could be Cooper's, that they would also have to admit that Cooper probably got away with the crime, after they claimed for years they believed he died in the jump. They went with that line after the Tina Bar money was discovered. You could also ask where is that chute now? If it had been returned to the family on whose property it was found, it is likely that news would have ended up in the media. If it isn't evidence, and was dismissed as Cooper's...why do they hang onto it today?

 

 

LikeThisBagButNoZipper.jpg

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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(edited)

You have no proof they still have the chute. even if it's not considered evidence they will not talk about it because it's linked to the case. the stamp on it is NOT consistent with a personnel chute. the markings are consistent with a cargo chute. thousands of them were sold to the public and are laying all over the country. you don't have any idea how long it was even in the place it was found. just like 36% of forestland is private property. 

 

The point is. even if it was ruled out it's still part of the case. that's a loophole that gives them the right to say they can't discuss it. it's not very hard to understand. 

Edited by mrshutter45

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(edited)

Well, I investigated this Amboy Chute question heavily some years ago. Read all the articles, spoke to two different agents at the Seattle FBI office about it. "It's the right size, the right color, and found in the right place.." was the FBI's initial statement to the press about it. Nobody was able to trace any markings to a 'cargo chute,' they were only able to determine when it was manufactured. Chute expert Mark M. ('377') says it isn't silk, even though that's the single reason it was 'dismissed' right away by the only chute guy actually allowed to examine it. (Earl Cossey) This dismissal, which was based on poor research and information, was a go-along for the Seattle FBI. Tom Kaye and his Citizen Sleuths team have a standing offer to the Seattle FBI asking them to be allowed to examine the Amboy chute. The FBI has refused their request, even though Kaye and his team are the same people who were already allowed to examine all the other key evidence in the Cooper case.

Ask yourself why the FBI would do that. 

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know when things just don't add up. 

BELOW:  Portion of the FBI's flight path map in relation to possible jump points and approximate location where the Amboy chute was discovered. 

chutedemomap.jpg

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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As far as I know nobody tried to match the markings to a cargo chute. I found several of them and posted them multiple times over the years. you lack the reasoning to understand a personnel chute has much more information on it. 

The photo below is a personnel canopy. note the difference in data....they don't just put a date on it with a non-traceable number...I'm sure regulations are requiring this information. you are on a skydiving site, so ask instead of assuming it's Cooper's and it's the chute from the hijacking. yes, you are implying that. 

The FBI is not obligated to tell us anything. especially if it's an open case. you can't call the FBI liars when you try to use someone just looking at the chute and stating something. that's the same tactics you accuse the FBI of by just looking at it...quickly, over the phone etc. what do you know about the phone calls. perhaps easy ways to find out whether the chute is of value. can you prove that can't be done? you have no way of even knowing how long the chute was at that location. was it months, years, decades? 

 

chute.jpg

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Quote

"so ask instead of assuming it's Cooper's and it's the chute from the hijacking. yes, you are implying that..."

No, actually it was the Seattle FBI agent who stood up at the first news conference who came up with the idea it might be Cooper's...

Quote

"It's the right size, the right color, and found in the right place.."

I'm not assuming anything. I said the FBI's rather lame explanation a week after it was found, using Cossey as the sole expert, and Cossey saying that the chute was silk and not nylon, and that's the reason it couldn't be Cooper's...makes not one iota of sense. 

If the FBI still has this chute eleven years later, I don't see where it would do any harm to allow Tom K's team to take a look at it. I have fully supported this idea for a long time. I never claimed I was a chute expert. I said I thought the FBI did a piss-poor job investigating it, and now refuse all access to the chute...even to the same team they trusted with all the OTHER evidence. Mark M and others have already given their opinion that the chute is ripstop nylon. So...why did the Seattle FBI just go along with the idea on something they must have known to be UNTRUE? 

I was also wondering why you seem to think no one has a right to inquire with, or QUESTION certain evaluations by the FBI. They ARE a publicly tax-funded organization after all. They have a right to deny certain information, and people have a right to question them about it anyway. That's the way the system works, and why they probably receive thousands of inquiries a day on all manner of subjects. 

Here is what the FBI initially said after the discovery, from THIS article: (one of many like it from 2008)

Quote

 

'An investigator with the FBI says the parachute was found in an agricultural field by some kids, it appeared to have been buried.

The parachute Cooper used in 1971 was white, so is the one that the Washington kids found. The FBI agent believes it probably is Cooper's 'chute, or it is a strong coincidence. The Associated Press reports that the farm field is in Cooper's most probable landing zone, between Green and Bald mountains near Amboy...'

 

 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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You sound like they should tell you everything. that's not how it works. how many parachutes do you think are white? a quarter, half? other chutes were found in the area and nobody says a word. the FBI didn't explain those either. you don't know if they have the chute or not anymore. they didn't hide anything from Tom. my guess is they gave him access to what was relevant to the case. where are the other chutes found? my guess if they were found not to be involved they probably discarded them. do you keep thing that are no value to you? 

I never once said nobody has a right to ask the FBI anything. never said it, not once. what I did say is they are not going to give you any information on an open case. it's policy. that goes for things that end up being a dead end. you would still be discussing the case. Is it really fair in this case. probably not, but it's there policy. 

You believe they did a piss-poor job based on public information. you really don't know what they know. it also appears that since the case began decades ago they seem tired of the same old same old. nothing new but a handful of people screaming they know who Cooper is. reading the 302's, lots of screaming has been going on for some time and I don't blame them for shutting it down. I bet the Hoffa case is even worse with leads telling them they know where he is or who killed him. conspiracies galore fly out of that case. I think a lot of things could easily be explained if we had everything they have. they just don't care what we think. 

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1 hour ago, mrshutter45 said:

You sound like they should tell you everything. that's not how it works. how many parachutes do you think are white? a quarter, half? other chutes were found in the area and nobody says a word. the FBI didn't explain those either. you don't know if they have the chute or not anymore. they didn't hide anything from Tom. my guess is they gave him access to what was relevant to the case. where are the other chutes found? my guess if they were found not to be involved they probably discarded them. do you keep thing that are no value to you? 

I never once said nobody has a right to ask the FBI anything. never said it, not once. what I did say is they are not going to give you any information on an open case. it's policy. that goes for things that end up being a dead end. you would still be discussing the case. Is it really fair in this case. probably not, but it's there policy. 

You believe they did a piss-poor job based on public information. you really don't know what they know. it also appears that since the case began decades ago they seem tired of the same old same old. nothing new but a handful of people screaming they know who Cooper is. reading the 302's, lots of screaming has been going on for some time and I don't blame them for shutting it down. I bet the Hoffa case is even worse with leads telling them they know where he is or who killed him. conspiracies galore fly out of that case. I think a lot of things could easily be explained if we had everything they have. they just don't care what we think. 

Speak for yourself on the 'not caring what we think' angle. When I contact the Seattle FBI, they are always polite and generally follow up with a phone call to my office and an email. I've never had a problem with them working with me, except for the time I tried to deliver the 54-page report on Christiansen personally to their office in Seattle. An agent came down to the waiting area and said that because of post-911 security concerns, all files must be mailed to them these days. They were not allowed to accept it from me personally. So okay, I mailed it to them and got a confirmation they received it. I can see the sense of that. Other than that, I've never had any problems working with them. I try not to bug them too much, because I know they have other pressing matters besides a 40+ year old hijacking case. There have been maybe six serious contacts between myself and the Seattle FBI since 2011. I think that's reasonable. On one of these contacts, I asked them in 2012 if it were actually true that Christiansen had been eliminated as a suspect in the hijacking. Agent Fred Gutt called me (again following it up with an email) and said this:  "Your assumption that Christiansen has been eliminated as a suspect is inaccurate. Some in this office believe he's a good suspect. Others believe there are better suspects." (paraphrased)They deal with me in an honest and straightforward manner, and there is mutual respect on both sides. But like I said, I try not to bug them too much. 

Where are these so-called 'other parachutes' you claim were found in the same area? I haven't heard of a single other chute being found along the flight path taken by the hijacked airliner. Just the one in Amboy. 

Having a discussion on FBI policy is pointless. That could take up a book. What we're talking about here is a single parachute, found in (conveniently) the prime drop zone for Cooper, in which the Seattle FBI goes along with a ridiculous explanation that the reason it just cannot be Cooper's...is because their prime expert...the guy they used for years...says it's made of SILK. This is something we know not to be true. 

Not asking questions about it, considering those things, is pretty foolish.

I didn't just fall off the apple cart last Tuesday. B|

 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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Try to follow this simple policy the FBI and all law enforcement have. it has nothing to do with a book size amount of data. only one part of the 1,000,000 pages you believe.

The Amboy parachute found near Amboy was determined to not be any of the chutes from the hijacking on November 24, 1971. now, standard policy is NOT to discuss an on going investigation with anyone outside of the FBI. The Amboy chute was part of the investigation even though it was dismissed it still falls under the guidelines of the case. this policy seems to allow others to assume they are covering things up because they are not satisfied with the results. sure, it would be nice for them to go into details about everything, but they don't. look at the 302's. they redact phone numbers that won't even work today. addresses that no longer exist. names of people that are dead. Tom Colbert had to get a lawyer to have files released. 

Why did they dismiss suspect #234, or 547 of the thousand plus suspects they have? what are they hiding? they never explained that either, did they?  how about the full reason they believed LD was Cooper. they never explained that? more time and manpower would be required to satisfy the constant requests from everyone asking or demanding answers to an open case. nothing in the policy says they have to be mean, or nice? it's just a policy. it would be never ending trying to satisfy everyone. once again, you yourself play the very same game they do then you accuse them of covering things up. 

Cossey stated the chute was 30 some feet in diameter. he didn't explain if he measured it or not. someone did. it would be "foolish" if they didn't. the markings are not consistent with a personnel chute. not much can be done if you believe Cossey is lying. he can't be lying about the markings on the chute. it's really not a mystery to me that it has nothing to do with the hijacking. I myself have wasted enough time trying to explain one simple policy the FBI has...

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(edited)

Looks like we have two different approaches going on this Amboy chute question, and possibly two different sources of information. And the FBI has discussed facets of the case with me before, although after Marla came along they were a bit more careful dealing with the public. 

On Cossey:  I'm not prepared to say he was lying. But there are facts here that are hard to escape from:

  • Cossey told media in several articles that he looked at the chute for less than ten seconds. 
  • Cossey almost got a reporter fired in Seattle for telling him the chute WAS Cooper's.
  • If Cossey told media for years that he owned at least some of the chutes given to Cooper, as well as saying he delivered them, those things are not true and present a history for him. Not a good one. 
  • Cossey claimed the chute was made of silk, which we know now to be 99.9% NOT TRUE. He also gives this as the main reason he dismissed it as Cooper's.
  • Cossey may not have been motivated to actually identify a chute as Cooper's....IF he was being less than truthful in previous contacts with the media. 
  • The FBI's actions during the one-week period between the time the chute was brought to Seattle, and when they made their final declaration on it, are suspect at worst and sloppy at best. 

Here's an example of 'sloppy'. FBI tells Seattle media that they are consulting local experts to help identify the chute. But when pressed, FBI says later they only did this by phone. How do you identify a chute by telephone? 

Here's another:  FBI says they are moving the chute to their local lab. It's in the same building as the main FBI office in Seattle. But the next day, the chute actually is taken to Woodinville and unceremoniously dumped in Cossey's driveway. He looks at it briefly, says it isn't Cooper's, says the one he provided (he didn't 'provide' it BTW) to Cooper was nylon and this one is silk. It isn't silk, of course. FBI goes along with Cossey on this assessment and soon makes an announcement to the media. (And Seattle media is DEFINITELY waiting for a release of information on it) The chute isn't Cooper's they say. How do you know? asks media. 

'By a preponderance of the evidence,' the FBI says. 

Oh, yeah? WHAT evidence? 

I'm not saying the chute belongs to Cooper, (although I've wondered where the container and harness went before it was buried, and WHY someone would bother with all that.) I'm saying the whole 'investigation' regarding the Amboy chute sounds like a hastily-thrown-together whitewash. 

 

amboychuterecent.jpg

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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Cossey claimed the chute was made of silk, which we know now to be 99.9% NOT TRUE.

 

Based on what evidence?

 

FBI says later they only did this by phone. How do you identify a chute by telephone? 

Careful, rocket science following..

Hmm, ask the diameter of the chute to what is on record, the markings on it for starters?

Edited by mrshutter45

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I think I have made all my points regarding the Amboy chute pretty clear. I don't see any use in going into it further. There is also the illustrated article at WordPress, if anyone's interested. 

Here's ANOTHER myth I see going around in the Cooper case from time to time:  That it makes sense to compare the handwriting from notes *allegedly* from Cooper to the media...to the handwriting on the plane ticket. I just shake my head at the idea that when you walked up to a ticket agent at an airline, he or she is just going to hand over a blank ticket and ask you to fill it out like you are applying for a job. 

I swear I don't know where people get this stuff. Cooper's plane ticket was filled out by the ticket agent in Portland. Although looking back now, maybe they should have had a spot on the ticket for the passenger to put a signature. Unfortunately, they didn't. :)

 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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1 hour ago, mrshutter45 said:

Those pesky facts :)

I think we finally agree on something. I've seen people create videos for YouTube with theories on the Cooper letters sent to media. But they base them on the idea that Cooper actually filled out his own ticket. You wonder if the folks doing the videos have ever flown on a commercial airline. 

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Jo is well known in Cooperland. Picking on the senior lady is pointless. She doesn't even really post up anymore regarding the Cooper case. 

Remember the private message I sent you...everyone has already seen these same pictures a dozen times in about a week. Can't speak for others, but I pretty much have them memorized. No use flogging it to death. B|

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2 hours ago, DerekGodsey12 said:

Not picking on her one bit. Why don’t you just use the ignore button you little snitch. Every post anybody makes you are complaining turning them in, I’ve already taken a look. I am dead serious!! I was reading old post and I’m serious Edna exists and I know how to get in touch with her. She has definitely got my attention. I don’t for no reason believe Weber was Cooper but how she knows Edna is beyond me, it’s a long story!! 

I'm no snitch, you can bet on that. You saw the PM I sent you. Nothing more needs to be said about that. 

I don't know how to contact Jo Weber. I'm one of the lucky folks she hasn't called on the phone. (That was kind of a joke) She used to call Bruce S. on a regular basis, though. She may have computer problems anyway. Years ago she would post up all kinds of complaints about her computer. I found out she never enabled disk cleaning of anything, and I mean ANYTHING. Her disk cache levels were into the sky. Well...if you do that for a couple of years your computer basically comes to a halt because your Windows cache allotment is filled up with every page and history and whatever you did on the internet. It's okay to leave the cookies alone, but you can't just keep viewing pages month after month without clearing your cache occasionally. I tried to help her but didn't have much luck. 

On a side note, I don't bother with Windows Disk Cleaner. I use the free disk cleaner program from Wise. Works way better and much faster. Send a PM for the link to the download if you want. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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Kenny Christiansen is...oh, never mind. B|

This stuff reminds me of the famous scene from the Kirk Douglas picture:

"I'm Spartacus...

"I'm Spartacus!"

"No, I'm Spartacus!"

Etc. 

I think Bing Crosby should be put on the suspect list. Or maybe Walter White. Except for the mustache, I think he might look like Cooper. 

 

 

walterwhite.jpg

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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Guys, I've mentioned that this thread will be loosely moderated, but that is in relation to the case and discussions of the case.

We've seen a number of threads between users talking to each other, or having quick jabs at each other. You're welcome to discuss the case here, but posts that are not related to the case and merely address other users are not what this thread is for, and we will start handing out more warnings to posts that violate this approach. If you want to have a discussion with another user, send them a DM, but this thread isn't the place for that. By all means, if you disagree on the case, make a post explaining your reasoning and addressing only the case.

In short, before you make a post ask yourself "If someone comes across this page looking for information on the case, will my post provide them with more information and offer something interesting to them" - if the answer is no, don't post it. 

We opened the thread because the topic is fascinating and we want others to be able to follow the case, not so that people have to wade through user's public conflicts.

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The 'You Had To Be There' Department:

Listening to the niece of alleged accomplice Bernie Geestman talk to the Minnow Films crew in October of 2018. A very ordinary Northwest lady, she answered questions for the camera regarding what she saw Cooper suspect Kenny Christiansen doing in her uncle's garage just two weeks prior to the hijacking. She was just 13 years old at the time, and this memory was triggered (she told her family right away about it) while the family was watching the Decoded show on Christiansen in January 2011:

Quote

"We all called him 'K.P.' He was taking these coin rolls, the ones you use for quarters, and they were filled with the quarters. He was using red electrical tape to tape them together in twos, end to end. Next to that, he had some cut pieces of wires and a big, round battery. When I asked him what he was doing, he said he was making a "battery storage device," and then said I wasn't supposed to be in there and I had to leave..."

The director pressed her with relevant questions, which she answered concisely and (I think) very well. Because it was raining that day and everyone wanted her to be relaxed and comfortable for the shoot, it was filmed inside Gayla Prociv's 1998 Nissan Pathfinder. I sat in the drivers seat, she in the passenger seat. The director, camera guy, and the sound guy were crowded into the back seat. The shoot lasted about an hour. She was honest and straightforward as far as anyone could tell. She is the mother of three grown sons and a daughter. One of her sons brought her to the shoot. It took me over five years to convince her that her story should go on film. She had first come forward in early 2011 after she and her family saw the Decoded show, and we had a meeting at a restaurant in Sumner, WA. At that time I gave them a preliminary report on Christiansen, whom all of the older adults in the family knew very well. (They had watched the show after they saw previews and recognized Christiansen in the previews.) She finally agreed to speak publicly. Picture below from afterward, taken outside the Eatonville Public Library. A couple of others from the previous day's shoot in Kent, WA. Frankly, I wasn't sure of her story back in 2011, but I changed my mind after it came out later in the FBI files, and the entries from the Cowlitz County Sheriff's notebook that the 'dynamite sticks' were wrapped in either red plastic or red tape. But she said that years before that information emerged. I then took her seriously. 

 

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Edited by RobertMBlevins

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Nice to see this forum active again. Wolf River Joe, good to see you back! 

One thing that could tell us a lot about Cooper's parachute knowledge (if it could be confirmed) is the claim that Tosaw made about Cooper examining the packing card on an NB rig (whether it was NB 6 or NB 8 is disputed but the distinction is irrelevant for his issue). Tosaw claims that Tina saw Cooper remove and read the packing card. 

Whuffos don't even know that packing cards exist, much less what info they contain. The packing card pocket on NB 6 and NB 8 rigs is well concealed.  If you don't know where to look it is hard to see the opening. 

I called Himmelsbach and discussed this issue with him. He said that there is nothing in the FBI files that supports Tosaw's claim about Cooper locating, extracting and reading the packing card. He implied that Tosaw made it up.

I wish I knew if it was fact or fiction.

377

 

 

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(edited)

Yeah, I still wonder about the case from time to time. 

I just couldn't stand the garbage being spewed in here. I'd pop back in and read whatever was current, but it never changed.

I wasn't terribly surprised to see the back-biting and bickering start up almost immediately. 
I was half expecting Meso to go "Well, we tried. It was a mistake" and lock it up again. 

Folks like you, Sluggo, Ckret, SafecrackPLF, and a lot of others cared about data, real information.

Unfortunately, too many had an agenda. Simply promoting their version of the story. And going after anyone who had any data that contradicted it. 

One very simple fact about investigation (of any kind) is that valid data has to be accounted for. You can't simply disregard data that doesn't support your hypothesis. You have to account for the discrepancy somehow. 
Toss in the variability of the data and the uncertainty of what is real and what is false and I don't see the case ever being solved.

 

One bit of info that I learned since the unlock is that the Pioneer rig was also a bailout rig. Not a sport rig, as was surmised back when I was reading everything. Was that figured out before the thread was locked? 
I find it super amusing (as I noted above) that nobody, including Cooper, realized that they gave him 2 bailout rigs, one airworthy reserve, and one training dummy reserve. He couldn't have used the good reserve for anything, except cutting it up and using the lines for whatever purpose he had.

Also, the fact that (presuming the pic posted of the Packing Data Card is correct) the Pioneer rig was out of date by a couple months. May 21 to Nov 24 is a lot more than 120 days (it was 120 in 1971, right?).

Edited by wolfriverjoe

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