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DB Cooper

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RobertMBlevins

From the Citizen Sleuths, who were the only civilian team ever allowed to examine and study the Cooper evidence: (Important portions underlined)

Quote

'The FBI transcripts identify the towns of Toledo, Pigeon Springs, Ariel, Highland, Battle Ground and Vancouver as being either on or near the radar recorded flight path. This information coincides with the FBI map and does not support an overflight of Tena Bar or the Washougal River.

The placard was recovered at the location shown in Figure 2 which is near Toutle, and 20 miles north of the Ariel Washington jump zone. This location is almost directly under the FBI flight path. Giving the placard a free fall time of nine minutes and a south west cross wind of 18 knots, then the plane would have to been 2.68 miles from where the placard was recovered and 2.6 miles west of V23. This distance is well within the official 8 mile width for the Victor airway and is 4 miles east of the theoretical Tena Bar flight path. This data places a constraint on the planes position approximately six minutes before the jump and suggests flight #305 was on the original FBI flight path.

Anecdotally, the original air traffic controller that handled the Northwest Airlines flight north of Portland was interviewed directly over the phone. He volunteered that he was sure that Flight #305 never left the V23 airway the entire time he had them on radar...'



Note to folks interested in the DB Cooper case: Suspect anyone who disregards the truth in favor of personalities, or who goes after anyone on a personal level who is also investigating the case. This indicates they have a personal agenda which supersedes and taints any real truth they may be trying to present.



NOTE TO FOLKS INTERESTED IN THE DB COOPER CASE:

Some of the statements made above by Blevins and attributed to other people are NOT consistent with more complete statements those same people made to other Cooper researchers.

If the placard from the airliner landed "almost directly under the FBI flight path" then the FBI flight path could NOT be correct. I feel qualified to comment on the placard matter since I am the one who did the calculations at Tom Kaye's request.

The placard calculations were made in a conservative manner. That is, the distance that the placard was blown is at least the distance shown in the calculations. It could have, and probably did, travel a greater distance. These calculations will be repeated when the actual wind speed and direction is finally available. It should be noted that forecast winds and directions are not necessarily the actual conditions the airliner encountered.

At this point, the only thing that can be said about the placard separation point from the airliner is that it was west of the centerline of V-23. And that the placard was blown in a northeasterly direction.

Robert99

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RobertMBlevins

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'And what is the source of your claim that the airliner was SEVERAL MILES WEST OF THE COLUMBIA RIVER (which runs north and south at Tina Bar)?'



It is not MY claim. It is the flight path shown on the map held by the FBI. The one that just about everyone agrees is reasonably correct. I know which way the river runs in that area, yes. I also know every flight I've taken to Portland when you get south of the Chehalis area...you can see the Interstate 5 freeway out the right window until you get close to Vancouver. And it's miles away, and even further west to the Columbia at that point.

What you are saying is that the flight took a sudden diversion to the west instead of continuing south from the point where the placard was found, and there is absolutely NO proof this actually happened. You want to ignore the Sleuths' evaluation? Fine. The guy handling the radar who the Sleuths' interviewed? Okay. The search for the hijacker, which was nowhere even ClOSE to Tina Bar? Go for it.

***'IF the flight diverted...'



Pretty big 'IF'. Unproven.

I have not personally seen the Tosaw book, but I will soon. I have a copy on the way via Powells Books in Portland. I also know that Tosaw developed a theory that Cooper may have pancaked into the Columbia because I know he did some searching in the river after the money was discovered. But he found nothing. And he also wrote his book a few years after the discovery of the money. However, when this book arrives I am going to search it thoroughly for any references where Soderlind tosses out the route and says no...the plane went over Tina Bar. I don't think I will find anything like that, but we will see.

Your quotes from the book are not proof of anything so far. They are mutual back-slapping statements by a couple of the principles and say nothing. I don't understand why you keep putting this 'claim' thing regarding the route the plane took to Portland on ME. It is not my idea, my invention, or my claim. It is what exists via the FBI, the Citizen Sleuths' research, the radar data, etc. It is pointless to argue with ME about it. It is THOSE entities you dispute to support your theory, not me.

You could ask the co-pilot, as I suggested. In fact, this should have been your first stop once you decided that Cooper must have jumped over Tina Bar. What you are proposing is pretty radical if you think about it. If the FBI or NWA knew that the flight could have overflown Tina Bar...and that's why the money ended up on the beach there...don't you think there would have been some mention of this after the money was discovered? This has never been mentioned by anyone at the time it was found. Why? Because everyone knew that spot was miles off the established flight path. Radar says so. Map says so. Sleuths say so. The friggin' ground search for the hijacker says so.

You say no. Okay.

Quote

'IF the flight diverted...'



But there is no proof of that so far, Robert99.

Blevins,

EAST is EAST and WEST is WEST, but you apparently don't know WHICH is WHICH. The flight path you mention has the airliner EAST, not WEST, of Tina Bar and the Columbia River.

Do you have a source for your quote, "If the flight diverted . . ." I don't believe I have used that phrase.

Robert99

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'Tosaw talked to Soderlind extensively about the events surrounding the hijacking. Soderlind reviewed the original data and drew up a second map for the landing zone. Tosaw took a look at the map and was surprised to see that Cooper could have landed in the Columbia River.

In fact Tosaw was so surprised that he asked Soderlind to review his data once again. Soderlind did and came to the same results that Cooper could have landed in the Columbia River.

And Soderlind told Tosaw that he had come to the same conclusion the night of the hijacking. That is, from the very night of the hijacking and even before the airliner had landed in Reno, Soderlind believed that Cooper could have landed in the Columbia River.

(Small portion redacted here. ;)) '...that 8:13 PM jump time would put the airliner almost directly over Tina Bar if the airliner took a shortcut...'



Sure...the airliner crossed the Columbia River. Everyone knows that. But you will have to demonstrate where Soderlind and Tosaw came to the conclusion that this crossing was miles north of Portland in the Tina Bar area...or where the flight path map shows...over PORTLAND.

And by the way, I do know east from west. Unless proven otherwise by you, I still have to agree with the current available data showing that 305 was EAST of the Columbia River, as well as the Interstate 5 freeway...at the time it passed by the Tina Bar area. You claim the flight may have taken a shortcut and somehow headed southwest once it passed the point where the placard was found. That's a theory, and so far no proof has been presented on that.

Anybody seen this 'second map'? Is is available for viewing anywhere? Just wondering. If no proof is available that the flight took a shortcut to the southwest, then you could say that MAYBE Cooper bailed over the Columbia in the Portland area. But there are problems with that scenario as well. First, no one searched that area after the hijacking because from all the evidence Cooper jumped farther north. Second, even if everyone is wrong about the jump point, this still doesn't explain how at least three bundles of the ransom were found miles downriver in exactly the same spot.

Anyone who doesn't believe the Tina Bar money raises more questions than it answers...well, I think it does. But simply MOVING the flight without supporting proof just to explain both the money find and Cooper's fate...is a pretty big stretch.


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RobertMBlevins

Quote

'Tosaw talked to Soderlind extensively about the events surrounding the hijacking. Soderlind reviewed the original data and drew up a second map for the landing zone. Tosaw took a look at the map and was surprised to see that Cooper could have landed in the Columbia River.

In fact Tosaw was so surprised that he asked Soderlind to review his data once again. Soderlind did and came to the same results that Cooper could have landed in the Columbia River.

And Soderlind told Tosaw that he had come to the same conclusion the night of the hijacking. That is, from the very night of the hijacking and even before the airliner had landed in Reno, Soderlind believed that Cooper could have landed in the Columbia River.

(Small portion redacted here. ;)) '...that 8:13 PM jump time would put the airliner almost directly over Tina Bar if the airliner took a shortcut...'



Sure...the airliner crossed the Columbia River. Everyone knows that. But you will have to demonstrate where Soderlind and Tosaw came to the conclusion that this crossing was miles north of Portland in the Tina Bar area...or where the flight path map shows...over PORTLAND.

And by the way, I do know east from west. Unless proven otherwise by you, I still have to agree with the current available data showing that 305 was EAST of the Columbia River, as well as the Interstate 5 freeway...at the time it passed by the Tina Bar area. You claim the flight may have taken a shortcut and somehow headed southwest once it passed the point where the placard was found. That's a theory, and so far no proof has been presented on that.

Anybody seen this 'second map'? Is is available for viewing anywhere? Just wondering. If no proof is available that the flight took a shortcut to the southwest, then you could say that MAYBE Cooper bailed over the Columbia in the Portland area. But there are problems with that scenario as well. First, no one searched that area after the hijacking because from all the evidence Cooper jumped farther north. Second, even if everyone is wrong about the jump point, this still doesn't explain how at least three bundles of the ransom were found miles downriver in exactly the same spot.

Anyone who doesn't believe the Tina Bar money raises more questions than it answers...well, I think it does. But simply MOVING the flight without supporting proof just to explain both the money find and Cooper's fate...is a pretty big stretch.



Blevins,

As you well know, I have NEVER said that the airliner flew to the "southwest" after passing the Mayfield (now Malay) Intersection.

If the airliner flew direct from the Mayfield Intersection to the Canby Intersection south of Portland, its True Course (which is measured with respect to the "grid lines" or lines of longitude) would be 178 degrees or just 2 degrees EAST of true SOUTH.

All of the above has been discussed on this thread at great length for years and years.

Contrary to your statement, the money find at Tina Bar answers plenty of questions. And this has also been discussed on this thread at great length for years and years.

Your last paragraph is just more nonsense and shows your absolute need to keep the flight path far, far to the east of Tina Bar to support the idea that your Cooper candidate survived the jump. And you have no proof for that flight path.

Robert99

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thousandthings

***` 727 not a DC-10
` Second panel "Mucklow"
` delivery of the money/chutes through the air stairs.
` passengers let off through the air stairs.
` he wants to go to Mexico City.
` Cooper says "under 10,000 ft"
` Altimiter? WTF?
` why is there a giant porthole in the cockpit?
` no storm
` aircraft in storm needs gear down.
` fbi tried to buy time repeated.
` last panel "no one"
` last panel gear down.





Thanks Reichenbach, noted...will correct these :$.
Besides, I remember having read somewhere that Cooper mentioned that he had an altimeter...isn't that correct?

Hey, I just wanted to say that I only commented so Cooperites (Cooperonians?) don't jump on your back, haha.
I know exactly how much hard effort and work goes into creating something and about how easily someone can rip it apart in two seconds. It seems to be human nature to pick out the negative so I just wanted to state to you, good work!

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'Contrary to your statement, the money find at Tina Bar answers plenty of questions. And this has also been discussed on this thread at great length for years and years.

Your last paragraph is just more nonsense and shows your absolute need to keep the flight path far, far to the east of Tina Bar to support the idea that your Cooper candidate survived the jump. And you have no proof for that flight path.'



I could say the same for your theory that the flight overflew Tina Bar. You say it 'answers plenty of questions' only because you believe the plane was there. But the evidence available doesn't support that.

Don't give me that 'we discussed this for years' stuff. I've discussed the possibility of life on Mars lots of times. That doesn't mean I just invented stuff and said there was. I can point you to a video done by FBI agent Larry Carr where he presents the yellow map as THE map for the flight path. No matter how you cut it, you're still trying to put 305 on the west side of the Interstate, and over Tina Bar. There is no proof it ever went in that direction. In fact, everything the FBI has ever said about the path the plane took is against your theory, right up to the point when they found the Amboy chute. When that happened, the Seattle FBI was hopeful because they said it was found in the prime dropzone for Cooper...and that point is a long ways from Tina Bar.

This theory is presented by three main folks, although there are other, more minor players involved. One is you. Another is Georger. Another is Shutter. And moving the flight over Tina Bar to explain the presence of the money found there in 1980, and to claim that's where Cooper landed, (and presumably died) requires some amount of proof.

Your theory might even be correct. But it goes against pretty much everything that's been presented on the flight path so far...not by you or me...but by the FBI and from testimony by others.

What do you want from me? It isn't like I made all this stuff up you know. It was in place long before I dropped by here. Search at Ariel. This happened. Speculation the hijacker may have jumped further south closer to Woodland. Fine. But no one has ever mentioned officially that the flight was on the other side of the freeway and over the Columbia at any point north of Vancouver. You want to claim that as a fact, but you have no hard evidence. Hell...you haven't even bothered trying to ask the co-pilot. As I said, that should have been your first stop when you proposed this stuff. He should know...he was on the flight deck that evening.

In order to settle this argument, I propose that you at least admit what you have here is a THEORY (so far) and not fact.

Then talk to Bill Rataczak. You want his phone number, his address? I have it. You can reach me at adventurebooksofseattle AT G Frickin Mail, Dot Frickin Com. (email address disguised to defeat the evil spammers) Or you can find Rataczak's info at the usual sources. I believe he is still listed publically, although he does screen the calls.


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RobertMBlevins

From the Citizen Sleuths, who were the only civilian team ever allowed to examine and study the Cooper evidence: (Important portions underlined)

Quote

'The FBI transcripts identify the towns of Toledo, Pigeon Springs, Ariel, Highland, Battle Ground and Vancouver as being either on or near the radar recorded flight path. This information coincides with the FBI map and does not support an overflight of Tena Bar or the Washougal River.

The placard was recovered at the location shown in Figure 2 which is near Toutle, and 20 miles north of the Ariel Washington jump zone. This location is almost directly under the FBI flight path. Giving the placard a free fall time of nine minutes and a south west cross wind of 18 knots, then the plane would have to been 2.68 miles from where the placard was recovered and 2.6 miles west of V23. This distance is well within the official 8 mile width for the Victor airway and is 4 miles east of the theoretical Tena Bar flight path. This data places a constraint on the planes position approximately six minutes before the jump and suggests flight #305 was on the original FBI flight path.

Anecdotally, the original air traffic controller that handled the Northwest Airlines flight north of Portland was interviewed directly over the phone. He volunteered that he was sure that Flight #305 never left the V23 airway the entire time he had them on radar...'



Note to folks interested in the DB Cooper case: Suspect anyone who disregards the truth in favor of personalities, or who goes after anyone on a personal level who is also investigating the case. This indicates they have a personal agenda which supersedes and taints any real truth they may be trying to present.



Blevins: GREAT POST - now you are getting it and hopefully some others are also. Sluggo created a map and it had deviation from the FBI map...I know which ones are which. There are actually 3 maps. Only one was created at the time of the skyjacking.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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skyjack71

***From the Citizen Sleuths, who were the only civilian team ever allowed to examine and study the Cooper evidence: (Important portions underlined)

Quote

'The FBI transcripts identify the towns of Toledo, Pigeon Springs, Ariel, Highland, Battle Ground and Vancouver as being either on or near the radar recorded flight path. This information coincides with the FBI map and does not support an overflight of Tena Bar or the Washougal River.

The placard was recovered at the location shown in Figure 2 which is near Toutle, and 20 miles north of the Ariel Washington jump zone. This location is almost directly under the FBI flight path. Giving the placard a free fall time of nine minutes and a south west cross wind of 18 knots, then the plane would have to been 2.68 miles from where the placard was recovered and 2.6 miles west of V23. This distance is well within the official 8 mile width for the Victor airway and is 4 miles east of the theoretical Tena Bar flight path. This data places a constraint on the planes position approximately six minutes before the jump and suggests flight #305 was on the original FBI flight path.

Anecdotally, the original air traffic controller that handled the Northwest Airlines flight north of Portland was interviewed directly over the phone. He volunteered that he was sure that Flight #305 never left the V23 airway the entire time he had them on radar...'



Note to folks interested in the DB Cooper case: Suspect anyone who disregards the truth in favor of personalities, or who goes after anyone on a personal level who is also investigating the case. This indicates they have a personal agenda which supersedes and taints any real truth they may be trying to present.



Blevins: GREAT POST - now you are getting it and hopefully some others are also. Sluggo created a map and it had deviation from the FBI map...I know which ones are which. There are actually 3 maps. Only one was created at the time of the skyjacking.

I'm not saying that Robert99 is necessarily wrong when he says he thinks the flight overflew Tina Bar (or over the Columbia somewhere NORTH of Vancouver...

I'm just saying he talks about this theory as if it were fact, when IN fact...it is not.

'If the flight diverted...' must be proven somehow in order to support his theory that Cooper went kerplonk into the Columbia near Tina Bar, which is how he believes the money arrived, etc. Tall order to do that, since all the *published* evidence indicates otherwise.


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In the very near future you guys will not hear from Jo Weber nor will I be able to read the thread.

I have a very very busy schedule ahead of me. I will briefly post until a surgery on my hand & arm is done. Then I will be in a full cast for 6 wks...and hope the surgery is successful. I will not be able to post unless I can find an individual who can type a few words here for me.

I will not even be able to access the site unless I can figure out how to do so with only my left hand.

The surgery is not guaranted to work.
I was physically attacked in Nov & all of the conservative procedures seemingly have not worked. I will be in a full cast for 6 wks after that surgery.

THE BIGGIE is another issue:

Another surgical procedure is mandatory before they even attempt to repair my hand and arm. A procedure I put off way too long.

That procedure will dictate if I can even tolerate the surgery on my arm.

My body is weaker now & the possibility of complications is higher. I chose to do this before the hand & arm surgery because the out come may put an expiration date on the bottom of my foot.

In 2001 that same procedure almost did me in & was incomplete, due the fact they ran into complications.

Since then they have relied on CT's and Pet's to monitor my condition, but that is no longer an option due to serious serious problems.

These surgeries are even more complicated since I am older & weaker. My reaction to anesthia is not good...a prior surgery of this nature was aborted in process.

I will keep in touch as long as I can.
Please be kind in your reactive postings & Robt 99 can go to HELL.

He & others have attempted to alter the facts of the flight. The truth lies within the flight path & connections and individuals who came forward to the FBI but ignored. They will no longer be able to ignore these thing or to put blinders up.

My hand & arm is throbbing, but I did not want to do this long post in all caps or otherwise. If you do not hear from me after the 1st procedure you will know things went South.

In the mean time I will keep intouch, but only every few days.

NOTE: IF I SURVIVE ALL OF THIS CRAP I AM GOING TO GO TO WA COME HIGH WATER OR HELL AND CONFRONT THE FBI AND THE MEDIA. I WON'T BE DOING THE TWISTY BUTT THING - BUT YOU WILL KNOW I AM IN WA. I WILL BE TAKING DUANE'S ASHES WITH ME. AT LEAST IT GIVE ME A GOAL TO WORK TOWARD EVEN IF I AM UNABLE TO DO IT SO.

Good night!
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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Robert99

***

Please be kind in your reactive postings & Robt 99 can go to HELL.



Jo,

When you get there, be sure to put a torch in the window for me so I can find the place.

Robert99

I know where I am going and it is not to hell! God has a plan for me! I refuse to let your warped mine make me cry.

GOD knows I have told no lies. I know I have told no lies. God KNOWS I hate liars & deception. God put me in Duane's life for a reason and if you had knowledge of conversations I have had with "others" (others you will never have the priviledge of never speaking to) then you would know that I have had angels on my shoulders ever since I started this plight to uncover the truth.

There have been angels on this thread over the yrs. Angels who have directed me & helped me make contacts I could not have made on my own...these are things I do NOT speak of in this thread. These ANGELS will not accomodate those who stand with the DEVIL.

Writers have told deliberate lies to sell books - and/or to deviate the truths. WHY! Is the truth so far removed that others think they will never be contested.

Their lies told to cause harm to others will be considered when they attempt to make entrance to the next phase of their life beyond the physical body they now are contained in. You, Robt99 are more than a liar - you are a Demon when it come to the word of God. Hopefully you have only been misdirected.

God gives all of us the chance to make out lives right...my heart & soul is free....God knows I have tried to do the right things.

Like any human I have my demons & I have my grudges against others...& I have asked God for his forgiveness while I inhabit this human body...but I do NOT lie....I have not lied regarding what Duane told me & the things I have discovered or has been revealed to me....they are the truths.

Participants in the thread have angered me & I have played with their theories but, I never let go of what I did know to be the truths regarding things Duane told me.

Duane told white lies because he knew if I found the truths of his life that I would have walked away. He lied to me to protect the relationship and to cause no harm to me. He bared his soul to me but I found the things he told me unacceptable - so I ignored them.

Duane was forgiven for the things he did and I will believe that with all of my heart - he is waiting for me.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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Robert99



Portland?




Why would you think Portland?

Part of the secrets do lie in Portland and within Oregon...but I have to get well enough to make the trip. If & when I make that trip GOD will direct me just as he directed me in 2010 when I made my lone trek and traveled roads that were only buried within my memory - no maps necessary.

If I had a last wish that could be granted to me - it would be to return to WA and to OR and to meet with the angels made available to me over the yrs. and for my memory to be vindicated. Things change, but my memory has not been erased...my uncanny ability to find needles in haystacks within my memory functioned in 2010 & I can only hope progress has not obliterated all of the markers.

The most important part will be to connect to those who aided me over the yrs when other have cast lies and doubts.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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Robert99

***

'If the flight diverted...'



Blevins,

You continue to claim that I used that phrase. Could you cite a source. That phrase is NOT one that I would use under the circumstances related to the hijacked airliner.

Robert99

The exact phrase you used is irrelevant. This is the one, highlighted with the key ingredient:

Quote

'but that 8:13 PM jump time would put the airliner almost directly over Tina Bar if the airliner took a shortcut...'



Shortcut? A diversion from what the FBI says now is where the actual flight path was? There are many sources for this, including videos, maps, and news articles.

You say something else, placing the flight miles west of the stated path. I've seen a lot of blustering, and much 'go back and look on the thread' stuff. Yet you've been pushing this theory to explain a Cooper kerplunk and the Tina Bar money for quite a while now, and still produce no hard evidence that the ground search, the map made available by the FBI, and testimony from other witnesses is all wrong...

And that you are right. For crying out loud, you came up with this theory and haven't even bothered to consult Bill Rataczak about it? Maybe you're one of those folks who thinks it was all a conspiracy or something. This is not about WHO was the hijacker, but a very basic idea, a theory you have created that simply doesn't match the known facts. You are disputing the historical sources, and in order to prove you are right and everybody else is wrong requires hard proof, or at least a good case for your theory.

You have presented neither to date.


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Reichenbach

******` 727 not a DC-10
` Second panel "Mucklow"
` delivery of the money/chutes through the air stairs.
` passengers let off through the air stairs.
` he wants to go to Mexico City.
` Cooper says "under 10,000 ft"
` Altimiter? WTF?
` why is there a giant porthole in the cockpit?
` no storm
` aircraft in storm needs gear down.
` fbi tried to buy time repeated.
` last panel "no one"
` last panel gear down.





Thanks Reichenbach, noted...will correct these :$.
Besides, I remember having read somewhere that Cooper mentioned that he had an altimeter...isn't that correct?

Hey, I just wanted to say that I only commented so Cooperites (Cooperonians?) don't jump on your back, haha.
I know exactly how much hard effort and work goes into creating something and about how easily someone can rip it apart in two seconds. It seems to be human nature to pick out the negative so I just wanted to state to you, good work!


Chill dude...Iam with ya ...I like this forum, despite the rants, it can be quite informative too.

Cooperites (or Cooperonians), again urging to have a look at the satire:D.B.Cooper mystery … finally solved? here:

[url] https://thousandthingsinmyhead.wordpress.com/2015/01/24/d-b-cooper-mystery-finally-solved/


...can be funny even if I say so myself (hmpff it better be clickable)

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Unable to figure out exactly who even suggested this.

"Besides, I remember having read somewhere that Cooper mentioned that he had an altimeter...isn't that correct?"

For whoever's information that is a myth this thread gave birth to.

I will personal state that NOT one of the witnesses who I have spoke to mentioned anything about Cooper having an altimeter. By the way the only one I am missing is Florence.

I do know that Duane mentioned having had one - but I didn't even know what he was talking about. Tina also stated that Cooper had no jewelry on. A watch was not considered jewelry in 1971....how do I know this. In 1971 the rules at the school were no jewelry, but you could wear a watch & therefore not considered by some one her age as jewelry.

Tina noted a scar on Cooper's hand. No one seemingly wants to address that. Weber had a scar on his hand per the criminal records.

Duane at one time tried to show me a scar on his hand, but the yrs had erased it - if it was there it was barely noticeable...but his criminal records mention the scar on his hand & I forget which hand.

Hancock was not in the compartment with Cooper & only went back to retrieve her personal belonging before departing the plane. Grey claimed Hancock mentioned a russet sweater, but Hancock denies this. Therefore please consider all of the myths given birth to by writers & others in this thread.

Too many individuals have added supurlatives to the case & therefore altering history as it was given in 1971, by the witnesses & to me over the last 14 yrs.

Taking liberaties with witness statements has taken the exploration of Cooper into another dimension. These individuals put themselves out there as researchers & writers, but create alternate facts to support their motivation...which is usually a book or just to be heard.

Why ALTER facts? That is senseless & a waste of time. If these individuals who recite the falsehoods continue to use them then they need to reference the actual facts and / or verify them. I have verified every statement made above.

By the way I cannot view any of the clips that are being posted as I only have dial-up.

Enough additives unless one can verify the item with FBI records and/or witness reports...You won't find a Altimeter mentioned nor will you find a russet sweater mentioned. Nor will you find any suggestion of a wig mentioned. Cooper's hairdo - could NOT have been a wig as the witnesses talked about an irregularity in his hair line in the front forehead...not a widows peak or a hair line that would suggest a wig...in any respect.

The information I just posted above is FACT & not something I read or something someone suggested at a later date. All of the information comes from - the witnesses themselves...there was no russet sweater & the irregular hair line indicated no toupee or wig. The hairline was a natural hairline with a slanted forehead which rules out a wig. Slanted forehead does not indicate a balding pattern...and irregular widows peak does not support the wig theory.

The composite also supports the things mentioned above as does the statement of the artist who did the original composites.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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Tina saw the reddish cylinders but never mentioned an altimeter.

She may have noted what she thought was a clock...like myself may not have know what she was looking at.

Cooper kept messing with something in the case - she thought it was a wire going to the bomb - but maybe it was an altimeter Cooper kept looking at to be sure the pilot followed the conditional guidelines he requested.

Note the minutes of the request made by Cooper...when the plane went above the request of 10,000 ft...Cooper gave a warning. Cooper probably had an altimeter in that briefcase.

It was also noted by Tina - she saw something she thought was a green plastic bag in the upper flap of the briefcase....this was in the FBI reports and it was mentioned by Tosaw.

There was a report of a Cooper siting & one so far fetched no one paid it any mind. This was along the river, but a long ways from the jump site. I have always thought this story a myth but, when Duane & I passed this little place near a town along the WA side of the Columbia - he told me something that matched this - so I have never been able to get it out of my head.

I won't take this into any detail, but it was odd the story told to me matched a place & story about a Caddy, Duane told me about.....but the individual telling the story did not seem creditable....and went on his way....after my rebuffing of him.

Supposedly the FBI did talk to this person per the individual, but the FBI has never verified this to me. The person contacted me & became angry with me - so I ratted him out to the FBI - therefore I do believe they did speak to him. He went POOF!

A few more things you guys didn't know.
I am hold NOTHING back at this point & my postings will not be to address the petty things being argued back & forth...just what I know from 1st hand knowlege.Just because someone tells me something DOES not make it true... a lot of water has gone over that damn in the 18 yrs I have chased the past of Duane Lorin Weber aka Dan Cooper aka John C. Collins and Johnnie.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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Pictures are being sent to the FBI of an area & a man who Duane knew only as John Collins. He did NOT introduce me to this couple, but took the camera & made pictures...I found the negatives & they are being put on a disk. The quality at this time is unknown. Also other pictures of terrain - in WA - pictures taken before I ever met Duane...we do not know the significance of these photos - NOT YET!

I hope they are ready & I can make a copy of the disk & have them put on the Site & of course the FBI will be provided a disk also.

Two items I had not been able to ID the source of - may also be useful. Excerpts and pictures of the two books had been sent to the FBI, but they obviously ignored them. Now we think perhaps they will put Collins on that plane or Weber whatever you wish to call him.

A lot is being done at this time & at a time I will not be able to respond...so disk will be mailed to one of the posters so they can get them on the site. Copies are going to be sent to the FBI - but, the newbies in the FBI are not longer looking at anything anyone sends...if the books are identified - then I have put Collins/Weber on that plane.

The books were mention when the RIVER RATS did their thing - but, then all questions I asked about this have been ignored. I just put them in the Safe & let them go, but now there is a reason to make sure that a disk of the books get into the hands of someone who might be able to ID them. IT IS NOT THE FBI.

Curtis told me I had to put Weber on the plane and that is what we are trying to do.
It will take more than one of the witnesses identifing him - it will take proof.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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skyjack71


Unable to figure out exactly who even suggested this.

"Besides, I remember having read somewhere that Cooper mentioned that he had an altimeter...isn't that correct?"

For whoever's information that is a myth this thread gave birth to.

I will personal state that NOT one of the witnesses who I have spoke to mentioned anything about Cooper having an altimeter. By the way the only one I am missing is Florence.

I do know that Duane mentioned having had one - but I didn't even know what he was talking about. Tina also stated that Cooper had no jewelry on. A watch was not considered jewelry in 1971....how do I know this. In 1971 the rules at the school were no jewelry, but you could wear a watch & therefore not considered by some one her age as jewelry.

Tina noted a scar on Cooper's hand. No one seemingly wants to address that. Weber had a scar on his hand per the criminal records.



Hmm...this is interesting!
I've read a few of your earlier posts which also spoke about the "scar"...however I have to admit I didn't hear about it anywhere else. Also I missed the point about the source of that info?

Again, I had no idea that Cooper warned the pilot when they crossed 10000 ft limit. If so he clearly had altimeter, I mean you can't just guess it. But again what's the source of info?

PS: I like the passion on this forum. While researching I did think many times to drop the topic and move onto to something else but the arguments here kept me bringing back and I have to admit kept in interested.

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skyjack71

Tina saw the reddish cylinders but never mentioned an altimeter.

She may have noted what she thought was a clock...like myself may not have know what she was looking at.

Cooper kept messing with something in the case - she thought it was a wire going to the bomb - but maybe it was an altimeter Cooper kept looking at to be sure the pilot followed the conditional guidelines he requested.

Note the minutes of the request made by Cooper...when the plane went above the request of 10,000 ft...Cooper gave a warning. Cooper probably had an altimeter in that briefcase.

It was also noted by Tina - she saw something she thought was a green plastic bag in the upper flap of the briefcase....this was in the FBI reports and it was mentioned by Tosaw.




Maam, if I am not wrong, Mucklow did not sit with Cooper on way to Reno and the conditional flying guidelines were given only for that leg...in which case what you stated above is contradictory.

A question to Cooperonians: Can't an airline simply serve a spiked drink or something...u know to simply pass a hijacker out? (I mean the green bag can simply have a sandwich in it :P)

Besides I know the following is a party pooper however I don't think Cooper or anyone in their right mind will continue to live in US after committing such a crime. At the risk of repeating myself KC, Webber & likes are ruled out simply on those grounds.

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Here's your Cooper Case solved entry thousandthings, placed into a link HERE.

Yeah...the altimeter is a myth all right. Kind of like when I once thought that Captain Scott went back to talk to the hijacker to confirm he had a real bomb. That statement was a bomb LOL. I had heard that in some article way back when, and it wasn't any more true than the altimeter.

And yes...there is some amount of useless bickering that goes on around here. These days it is fairly tame. It used to be worse but then a couple of users got banned and then others toned it down a bit. However, you can still view a lot of that crap if you want because the worst offenders ended up over at the alternate site on Cooper run by user 'Shutter'. About once or twice a month I stop by there to see Georger's latest rants about me. He copies over a lot of my posts at Dropzone and goes on tirades about them. Says I'm basically a nut, a liar, etc.

Whatever...they can have him. I used to re-quote his comments back to Dropzone and defend myself but I quit doing that because I knew it was just feeding the troll, as they say. These days I will say he exists, but I won't quote his comments. Let him be Shutter's problem. I imagine the main folks there at the alternate site...well...even THEY probably get tired of reading his endless Blevins quotes and rants. ;) But you have to be fair about things. It is also true they do some good research over there, and once you get past the rants by Georger, they have some pretty solid stuff to offer up on the case. In case you haven't seen them, it is HERE.

I have questioned Robert99's conclusions on the Tina Bar money, Cooper's fate, and the flight path. But I don't question the man. He is to be respected on a personal level. He is a pilot, I know that, and I think he might even fly today even though I suspect he is around retirement age. He has a solid background and his opinions matter.

My basic approach, or the one I TRY to do MOST of the time...:)

Cartoons are cool. Cartoons can keep things in perspective. I have a few, mostly on the guy we call 'BK,' who believes the hijacking was pulled off by the CIA and with the approval of Richard Nixon to force improvements in airline safety. (No kidding) And...I have a few on the famous Marla Cooper, a woman who claimed her uncle was DB Cooper and whom I interviewed HERE for Newsvine. But her story had a few serious holes, and her Facebook posts showed she had an agenda mostly based on getting a fat book deal. People got mad at me here when I revealed her Facebook posts. She was talking about creating her own 'media frenzy' and said some bad things about Geoff Gray and his book. Other stuff.

I attached a few of the cartoons. Hell I even did one on myself, just for the heck of it.

Quote

'Besides I know the following is a party pooper however I don't think Cooper or anyone in their right mind will continue to live in US after committing such a crime. At the risk of repeating myself KC, Webber & likes are ruled out simply on those grounds...'



You know, that's a pretty fair statement. On the other hand you would be surprised how many people who have done far worse things than Cooper hung around and didn't leave, even though they should have. Guys like Archie Byrd, Ricky Bright, etc. Who knows...

There is a bottom line on Kenny Christiansen. And that line goes like this: I don't know if he's the hijacker. I only suspect he MAY have been. A fair amount of evidence and a number of witnesses may be able to determine the truth. FBI has told me personally that some in the Seattle office think he might be good for Cooper, while others don't. They want to see the updated report on him, they've said so. So...they will get it. Truth is I don't have a friggin' clue if he was the hijacker for sure or not. Let the FBI figure it out, that's my opinion. Unless *alleged* accomplice Bernie Geestman's family gets hold of me again, then our official investigation into Christiansen is closed.


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Yes, we did. Today, I hit the 'send' button on an email to the Seattle FBI. Attached was the final report on Kenny Christiansen in a linked PDF. After editing, it ended up at 74 pages of witness testimony (with their contact information), documents, pictures, and some general overview of the evidence. It's a fairly complex document.

I told the FBI that we would be sending along a print copy of the report in the following week, and that the print version would include Lyle Christiansen's full DNA profile. I suggested also maybe they could obtain Kenny's full print set from Army records to compare to the approximately 56 good prints they got from the hijacked aircraft.

Tell you what. Even if it turns out Kenny wasn't the guy, I'm glad I finally sent in the report. Our investigation into Ken Christiansen will be officially ended with the submission of the print version and the DNA profile.

Finally....

I'm so frickin' tired of running around checking out Kenny and everyone he ever knew that you wouldn't believe it. Now I can wrap up my new book and go back to my normal life. Kenny is the FBI's problem now. And I certainly provided them the tools to either confirm or dismiss him as the hijacker. Sure, I would like to be right. But if I'm wrong at least I'll know I gave it my best shot...and I won't be leaping off the Narrows Bridge if I'm wrong. I will just move on. :)
Since this report is now in the hands of the Seattle FBI, I think it would be fair for me to reveal something here. I know some of you have questioned the idea of a witness in Bernie Geestman's family who said she saw Kenny possibly creating the bomb used in the hijacking, and that she saw this shortly BEFORE the hijacking.

I also said there was a 'special item' she mentioned in her testimony, i.e. something never mentioned previously in any description about the bomb, fake or otherwise. And...if that 'special item' can be verified by the FBI, that this would give her testimony much credibility.

Here is what we told the Seattle FBI about that incident in the report, and it includes the item.
Then you will see what I mean:

Quote

'I received another email from Macauley. He said that shortly after the History Channel program aired that his mother had told the family a story that possibly linked Kenny Christiansen to the actual creation of the bomb that was used to hijack Flight 305. His mother says this is how it happened:

That at the time just before the Cooper hijacking, his mother was one of four siblings living with Margaret and Bernie Geestman up in Bonney Lake, WA. Bernie Geestman’s sister, Dawn Androsko, was their mother and had recently divorced, moved to Washington from Minnesota with her children, and moved in with her brother and his wife.

The mother stated she was about 13 years old at the time. She said that not long before the hijacking, she walked into a shed on the Geestmans’ property and Kenny Christiansen was inside. He was working on something, and he turned to her and said, “You’re not supposed to be in here.” So she turned and left the shed. But before she did, she says, she got a good look at what he was doing. Allegedly, she saw Kenny wrapping red electrical tape around filled paper coin tubes, the type used to store quarters.* In addition, she says he was attaching wires to the coin tubes at the same time. And that these tubes were assembled two at a time to make one longer tube.

But over the years she never associated what Kenny was doing that day with anything Cooper-related or the hijacking, until she saw the TV program on Christiansen. After the show aired, she began relating this story to her children and other family members. Macauley asked me not to publish his mother's name publicly, but said his mother would cooperate with the FBI.

(* The reference to ‘red electrical tape’ being used to wrap the coin rolls might be significant. Nothing has ever been said about this previously. If the stewardess who saw the bomb can verify that the ‘red sticks’ she saw inside Cooper’s briefcase looked as if they were tape-wrapped, this would add much credibility to the witness’ statement. Or, if this information is already somewhere in the FBI’s files on the Cooper case. We also feel it is unlikely that Cooper used road flares for the phony bomb because flares have writing on them and are easily recognizable.)'



People can say whatever they wish about this item. But there is something here that can't be denied. And that is THIS: If the witness is correct about red electrical tape being used in the creation of the bomb...and the FBI either knows about it already, or can verify it...they are going to interview not only Macauley's mother, but the other witnesses in that family. To date, I have not seen anything like this used in any description of the bomb. I have seen wires mentioned, red sticks, a battery. Our hope is that the FBI knows about the tape, or can find out by re-interviewing stewardess Florence Schaffner.


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***

Maam, if I am not wrong, Mucklow did not sit with Cooper on way to Reno and the conditional flying guidelines were given only for that leg...in which case what you stated above is contradictory.
***

Excuse me - Mucklow spent the most time with Cooper and sat with him when the others had been sent forward and when the plane took off from Seattle. She remained seated with Cooper until he ordered her to go forward to the cabin.

I do not know how soon Cooper made his demand that she go to the cabin...but Tina was there long enough to observe what he was doing and how he was attaching the money and his cutting cords to attach the package.

:|I am talking about Cooper's demands and his action on the plane...Cooper was not on the plane after he jumped:ph34r:;). In fact no one was in the cabin...the entire crew was in the cockpit.

Tina was the last one to go forward. She did not do this until Cooper ordered her to do so...that was NOT immediately after they took off. When she left she could see him cutting cord with a knife (she has even described the knife). She was lingering before going to the cabin & observing as she had been instructed.

The scar was somewhere in the FBI reports or in Tosaw's or Himmelsbach's book. IT is a FACT!

The scar was discuss in this thread - but I do not do search backs due to limited use of my hand....at this time.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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RobertMBlevins

Yes, we did. Today, I hit the 'send' button on an email to the Seattle FBI. Attached was the final report on Kenny Christiansen in a linked PDF. After editing, it ended up at 74 pages of witness testimony (with their contact information), documents, pictures, and some general overview of the evidence. It's a fairly complex document.

I told the FBI that we would be sending along a print copy of the report in the following week, and that the print version would include Lyle Christiansen's full DNA profile. I suggested also maybe they could obtain Kenny's full print set from Army records to compare to the approximately 56 good prints they got from the hijacked aircraft.

Tell you what. Even if it turns out Kenny wasn't the guy, I'm glad I finally sent in the report. Our investigation into Ken Christiansen will be officially ended with the submission of the print version and the DNA profile.

Finally....

I'm so frickin' tired of running around checking out Kenny and everyone he ever knew that you wouldn't believe it. Now I can wrap up my new book and go back to my normal life. Kenny is the FBI's problem now. And I certainly provided them the tools to either confirm or dismiss him as the hijacker. Sure, I would like to be right. But if I'm wrong at least I'll know I gave it my best shot...and I won't be leaping off the Narrows Bridge if I'm wrong. I will just move on. :)
Since this report is now in the hands of the Seattle FBI, I think it would be fair for me to reveal something here. I know some of you have questioned the idea of a witness in Bernie Geestman's family who said she saw Kenny possibly creating the bomb used in the hijacking, and that she saw this shortly BEFORE the hijacking.

I also said there was a 'special item' she mentioned in her testimony, i.e. something never mentioned previously in any description about the bomb, fake or otherwise. And...that if that 'special item' can be verified by the FBI, that this would give her testimony much more credibility.

Here is what we told the Seattle FBI about that incident in the report, and it includes the item.
Then you will see what I mean:

Quote

'I received another email from Macauley. He said that shortly after the History Channel program aired that his mother had told the family a story that possibly linked Kenny Christiansen to the actual creation of the bomb that was used to hijack Flight 305. His mother says this is how it happened:

That at the time just before the Cooper hijacking, his mother was one of four siblings living with Margaret and Bernie Geestman up in Bonney Lake, WA. Bernie Geestman’s sister, Dawn Androsko, was their mother and had recently divorced, moved to Washington from Minnesota with her children, and moved in with her brother and his wife.

The mother stated she was about 13 years old at the time. She said that not long before the hijacking, she walked into a shed on the Geestmans’ property and Kenny Christiansen was inside. He was working on something, and he turned to her and said, “You’re not supposed to be in here.” So she turned and left the shed. But before she did, she says, she got a good look at what he was doing. Allegedly, she saw Kenny wrapping red electrical tape around filled paper coin tubes, the type used to store quarters.* In addition, she says he was attaching wires to the coin tubes at the same time. And that these tubes were assembled two at a time to make one longer tube.

But over the years she never associated what Kenny was doing that day with anything Cooper-related or the hijacking, until she saw the TV program on Christiansen. After the show aired, she began relating this story to her children and other family members. Macauley asked me not to publish his mother's name publicly, but said his mother would cooperate with the FBI.

(* The reference to ‘red electrical tape’ being used to wrap the coin rolls might be significant. Nothing has ever been said about this previously. If the stewardess who saw the bomb can verify that the ‘red sticks’ she saw inside Cooper’s briefcase looked as if they were tape-wrapped, this would add much credibility to the witness’ statement. Or, if this information is already somewhere in the FBI’s files on the Cooper case. We also feel it is unlikely that Cooper used road flares for the phony bomb because flares have writing on them and are easily recognizable.)'



People can say whatever they wish about this item. But there is something here that can't be denied. And that is THIS: If the witness is correct about red electrical tape being used in the creation of the bomb...and the FBI either knows about it already, or can verify it...they are going to interview not only Macauley's mother, but the other witnesses in that family. To date, I have not seen anything like this used in any description of the bomb. I have seen wires mentioned, red sticks, a battery. Our hope is that the FBI knows about the tape, or can find out by re-interviewing stewardess Florence Schaffner.



It will surely be interesting to see what the FBI response is. Interesting stuff RobertMBlevins!

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