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DB Cooper

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2 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Must have been some light,, I have no idea how the lighting worked in a 727-100 but maybe there were switched lights above the seats,, have to look into that.

There were individual lights for each seat that were controlled by the passenger seated there.  These lights were sufficient for reading books and newspapers.

Cooper apparently wanted the cabin "dome" lights turned off.  Those lights were controlled by the cabin crew. 

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6 hours ago, Robert99 said:

There were individual lights for each seat that were controlled by the passenger seated there.  These lights were sufficient for reading books and newspapers.

Cooper apparently wanted the cabin "dome" lights turned off.  Those lights were controlled by the cabin crew. 

When they landed and checked the back Tina had to turn on the lights...

Makes you wonder,, did he remove his sunglasses, how dark was it, did he use the spotlights and was there any light in the stairwell for airstair controls..

Could he have had a flashlight?

Even with "reading lights" on it would be dark, perhaps that is why he missed the tie..

Edited by FLYJACK

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Fingerprints of "no value" from ashtray.. or rear door, lav and seat area.

Isn't that odd.

Page -120- The Real McCoy..
Eleven prints, either partials or smudged, were sent that night back to the FBI Fingerprint Division. "We photographed and lifted anything we could find," Ricks said. "We knew Flight 305 was going to get a lot of attention. At the same time we knew it was useless." Two days later, 26 November 1971, Red Campbell received a teletype from FBI headquarters, confirming their educated appraisal about the smudges: "Finger prints found on Flight 305 of no value."

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printsnovalue.jpeg.044e24e2ba9e3cc9796f0bcb3b12ff4e.jpeg

Edited by FLYJACK

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2 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Fingerprints of "no value" from ashtray.. or rear door, lav and seat area.

Isn't that odd.

Page -120- The Real McCoy..
Eleven prints, either partials or smudged, were sent that night back to the FBI Fingerprint Division. "We photographed and lifted anything we could find," Ricks said. "We knew Flight 305 was going to get a lot of attention. At the same time we knew it was useless." Two days later, 26 November 1971, Red Campbell received a teletype from FBI headquarters, confirming their educated appraisal about the smudges: "Finger prints found on Flight 305 of no value."

printsnovalue.jpeg.2410ab96e98e151a460c2a528ea856d7.jpeg

printsnovalue.jpeg.044e24e2ba9e3cc9796f0bcb3b12ff4e.jpeg

Couple comments.   I wonder if Cooper could have had airplane model glue on his fingertips. How does someone do everything he did and not leave prints?  Unless he wiped everything, which is quite an effort. Although I think I remember you mentioning that the tie looked like it could have been used to wipe prints.  Could nothing of use just mean that the prints did not match anyone in the systems?  

One the NCIC for the $20s.  Is it possible that Cooper could have spent some of the $20s and those few just never got checked?  There were billions of $20s out there, you'd think we would have examples of agencies checking bills.  

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58 minutes ago, CooperNWO305 said:

Couple comments.   I wonder if Cooper could have had airplane model glue on his fingertips. How does someone do everything he did and not leave prints?  Unless he wiped everything, which is quite an effort. Although I think I remember you mentioning that the tie looked like it could have been used to wipe prints.  Could nothing of use just mean that the prints did not match anyone in the systems?  

One the NCIC for the $20s.  Is it possible that Cooper could have spent some of the $20s and those few just never got checked?  There were billions of $20s out there, you'd think we would have examples of agencies checking bills.  

Of no value "then". This is why I keep saying elements of this case need to be revisited with modern technology. Turn the case over to archaeologists if nothing else!  The FBI has turned it over to media types - why not scientists! ? Very clearly some in the FBI dont like or trust scientists either! The original proposal to give the case to the Smithsonian sounds better every day ... People with a different bias, for a change!

Labs and Lab people (including agents) were limited 'in the day' in what they could do and in what they were allowed to do!

Edited by georger

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5 minutes ago, georger said:

Of no value "then". This is why I keep saying elements of this case need to be revisited with modern technology. Turn the case over to archaeologists if nothing else!  The FBI has turned it over to media types - why not scientists! ? The original proposal to give the case to the Smithsonian sounds better every day ... People with a different bias, for a change!

With the new disastrous doc and Ulis once again playing the media fiddle there are lots of new people and with that lots of misinformation polluting the public discourse... (look at the reddit group and the Fenn group), just crazy stuff... 

I see this as an advantage.. there is a greater bifurcation between the serious and ridiculous.

As for science,, the only thing that we need is new DNA from the tie,, is that even possible now?

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5 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

When they landed and checked the back Tina had to turn on the lights...

Makes you wonder,, did he remove his sunglasses, how dark was it, did he use the spotlights and was there any light in the stairwell for airstair controls..

Could he have had a flashlight?

Even with "reading lights" on it would be dark, perhaps that is why he missed the tie..

Once Tina went to the cockpit, Cooper probably removed the sunglasses and put them in a pocket.  It is unlikely that he had a flashlight.

There were undoubtedly lights on the stairs just as a safety factor for passengers boarding or leaving the aircraft.  It was relatively dark on those stairs even during daylight operations.

The "reading lights" were quite localized (they were not "area lights") and may well have been the reason Cooper missed the tie.

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Chaucer yes - I saw your post about money floating/sinking at the other forum. I think you raise some important issues and will get back to this when I can - like everyone right now Im struggling with the heat wave and social issues. 

In the meantime: did the bound bundles of bills FAN OUT? How if they are contained in close quarters, in a bank bag! No room to fan out so that premise is questionable right at the git-go. In addition, there are other facts about the money find excavation that have been dismissed by Ulis, Smith, etal ... which is a shame. DS is curious why this misinterpretation or lack of understanding of the excavation ever happened, not only in his day, but now. Myth vs facts. More later ....

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24 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

With the new disastrous doc and Ulis once again playing the media fiddle there are lots of new people and with that lots of misinformation polluting the public discourse... (look at the reddit group and the Fenn group), just crazy stuff... 

I see this as an advantage.. there is a greater bifurcation between the serious and ridiculous.

As for science,, the only thing that we need is new DNA from the tie,, is that even possible now?

new DNA from the tie, ?   I just dont know. Nobody can know. Would have to have the tie and a lab to know, to even make an estimate after a few tests. My suspicion is multiple samples are required to evaluate that question. But there is nothing without trying! Picking a good lab and good people is crucial imho.   

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35 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

With the new disastrous doc and Ulis once again playing the media fiddle there are lots of new people and with that lots of misinformation polluting the public discourse... (look at the reddit group and the Fenn group), just crazy stuff... 

I see this as an advantage.. there is a greater bifurcation between the serious and ridiculous.

As for science,, the only thing that we need is new DNA from the tie,, is that even possible now?

Ulis spun out of orbit quickly and may hang around making noise, but he is essentially a failed vendor, and will never have any lasting value. Ulis needs to find a new game he can tinker with in hope of making $$$$$$$$$ which is his goal. I leave him alone because I dont speak "Spinach" and I shy away from total Chaos. Movements only have so much life in the real world.

Edited by georger

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(edited)

Tom Kaye from the DB Cooper Facebook page:

“All, let's clear some things up. The SEM that identified the particles did so in a completely automated fashion. It is normally refined for gunshot residue analysis and I am pretty sure they did not focus on precise ID of metals.  Most of the particles are so small that the electron beam goes right through them and can get a signal from something else. In this case the carbon tabs had nickel wires in them so ANYTHING with nickel should be suspect.  I did not know they had nickel wires in them and they are the only brand that does so it was unexpected. I bought them because they were made particularly smooth so small particles would stand out.

The instrument appears to just bin everything into the closest match it can find, so I would expect lots of things end up in a particular bin like "400 SS" if the elements are even close. If you want better, more accurate analysis then look at my tree of hand examined particles on the website.  Carbon was not included because all the particles are stuck to a carbon sticky tab.

Finally we DID look at a  control tie worn for 9  years at Boeing from the 70-80's.  It was really clean and didn't even have particles on it that the owner said it should have. I don't like the Boeing connection but the vortex keeps coming back to it.

Another unfortunately ugly thing to consider is that these may be grinding particles from plated metals. If that were the case then we would see wild mixes of crazy things that make no sense. A ground off fleck could have 80% steel in one particle and 80% chromium in the next from the same piece of chrome plated steel.

Hope this helps.”

TK

*** credit to Chaucer for posting this vital message from TK at the private-closed Ulis Facebook page. I wish Tom was here!! Better late than never...

Edited by georger

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4 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

According to Tom Kaye the McCrone particle analysis isn't precise.. 

The particles are not necessarily alloys..

So, Ulis's claim that the particles only came from Rem Cru based on a general patent is nonsense.

Ulis has no idea what he is doing. He doesn't care! His cult is in dire need of new material - stay tuned.

Particles: central question. Are ALL of the partials from some process, like machining, vs production,ie creation? TK alludes to machining but stops short of saying all of the partials were produced during a machining process ? The process that produced these particles would be a good starting point for anyone trying to trace a location/company/individual. This whole issue is a rabbit hole... a needle floating somewhere in the universe. 

Ulis needs to stop talking and start listening!

Edited by georger

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Cooper wearing "loafers" just will not die..

That was a fictional description in the media...

Tina actually described the Cooper's shoes as..

"brown ankle length pebble grain shoes, not tie type shoes"

ankle length is not a loafer,, sounds more like some type of slip-on boot.

The only "loafer" references in the FBI files is in newspaper clippings..

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Edited by FLYJACK
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3 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Soderlind,,,  Based on notes while in communication with hijacked flight...

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The above indicates that Soderlind himself says that Cooper jumped no later than 8:12 PST.  At that time, the airliner was well north of the Columbia River and this eliminates any possible theory that Cooper jumped south of the river. 

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23 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

An author had done a FOIA by 1980..

Which books??

Gunther? HAHAHA? or??

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Might not fit the Gunther timeline.  The second contact with him was in 1982 (first in 1972), and he published in 1985.  I'm not familiar with Ha Ha Ha, as in I don't own it and don't care to own it.  We still don't have any files on Gunther in the 302s, but he claims to have contacted the FBI and says Himmelsbach has his info too.  Maybe Him's heirs might have some info.  

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Some discussion on the Facebook page about Cooper's eye color.  Larry Carr echoed what he said on the DZ many years ago, which was basically not to re-write the narrative, and when you start questioning everything, when does it stop?  Some comments were made wondering if the gate agent/ticket agent saw his eyes.  When the sunglasses went on.  If Flo was a reliable witness, if Mitchell was too, etc.

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7 minutes ago, CooperNWO305 said:

Some discussion on the Facebook page about Cooper's eye color.  Larry Carr echoed what he said on the DZ many years ago, which was basically not to re-write the narrative, and when you start questioning everything, when does it stop?  Some comments were made wondering if the gate agent/ticket agent saw his eyes.  When the sunglasses went on.  If Flo was a reliable witness, if Mitchell was too, etc.

Exactly,, you can challenge narratives but you need some evidence to back it up. 

There is a long list of Cooper nonsense,,

The latest,, he was faking being a smoker..

 

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17 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

Exactly,, you can challenge narratives but you need some evidence to back it up. 

There is a long list of Cooper nonsense,,

The latest,, he was faking being a smoker..

 

I haven't seen the smoker one lately, I'll have to look around.  He was clearly a smoker.  I personally think blue eyes should be ruled out.  That leaves brown, and what gets me on that is that somewhere along the line the term "piercing brown eyes" came up.  Someone thought somewhere that Cooper did not just have brown eyes, but really dark brown eyes.  Not sure if this is accurate or not, but I wonder if it came from Flo.  Some people have characteristics that just stand out, so maybe his eyes did stand out.

Larry Carr made an interesting comment on the Facebook page about holdbacks. He basically said that he held back some info in the case that was minor and may be out there now, but that a 90 year old man would remember.  I interpreted this as they had some info, maybe just small, that if a 90 year old suspect was asked, he would remember specifically.  Maybe a scar? Or something little he did.  Asking someone something they said 50 years later does not make sense.  Maybe something in his note?

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