DB Cooper

[FLYJACK 654]

12 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Well, Derek...you've convinced me. Not necessarily to believe than Klansnic is actually Cooper, but that he deserves a literary voice in the whole investigative process. 

Adventure Books of Seattle staff have decided to say 'yes' to Nicholas Broughton's request to accept his book on Klansnic for publication. I will personally edit it, including illustrations, cover files, and interior text. We will enable Nick to release it first at Amazon for the Kindle, and then proceed to the 6x9 paperback version via Lightning Source/Ingram. AB of Seattle will not be the publisher of record, though. We're just setting up Nick at Amazon and Lightning Source and then turning him loose. The benefit of going through LSI for the paper version is that Nick can release at the trade rate (50-55% off cover price) and will be listed through Ingram and the usual wholesale outlets. 

Our congratulations to Nick. He makes an announcement about all this in Part Two of the recent podcast he did with Darren Schaefer. That should be out soon. Part one is already available. We're supposed to receive a boatload of files from Nick this weekend to begin work on the book. The Kindle version won't take long to reach Amazon. The paper version takes a bit longer. Besides the text formatting and the content editing, my favorite part of this whole process is doing the cover. Here's a couple I did a while back:

You win. We will do Klansnic's story. I will send you the Amazon link when it's released. 

 

Just listened to Nicholas Broughton's Cooper Vortex p1 interview, he claimed that no other suspect was seen wearing a black tie. He was corrected KC was in his uniform, but Hahneman also is in a pic wearing a black tie prior to Norjak. Wearing a thin black tie in the late 60's doesn't make you Cooper, it was common though it checks one box. His smoking gun was tie particles matched tig welding fumes and no other suspect matches the tie particle environment. Hahneman was an radar tech EE, that also matches the tie particle environment. But, wearing a polyester tie in a tig welding environment sounds sketchy and there were no burn marks.

He makes a logical error though, Cooper had to be shown how to operated a lever to lower the rear stairs by Tina. A James Bond like 727 hydraulics engineer with "expert" knowledge would not need to be shown how to move a lever by a young stew. Being such an expert virtually eliminates him. Cooper had aviation knowledge but not an "expert". Too much expertise is a negative not a checked box. IMO

https://thecoopervortex.podbean.com

[Nicholas Broughton 68]

Fly I disagree with you...Bruce (top norjack expert), the pilot bill, northwest orient employees (see loren Peterson interview) are all on record of saying they believed this guy had a supreme level of knowledge about the aircraft in question, the Boeing 727. That night the fbi had to call one of klansnics  coworkers, Peter Gallimore a flight ops engineer from the very department Klansnic worked in, Boeing commercial airplanes. They wanted to determine if somebody could parachute out safely and if the plane could fly safely with the metrics cooper requested (see tribute to Peter Gallimore) If he wasn’t an expert then how did he know about the exclusive 727 flap setting of 15 degrees? It’s not like he requested it as if given intructions on what to tell them. He was actually asked what he wanted the flaps at and he said 15. Per loren Peterson he gave specifics on how to fill the fuel tanks, he wanted a certain balance of the fuel tanks and he knew exactly how long it took to fuel up. There are enough tells there to assume he was a 727 expert. You point at one thing about him having Tina lower it. That can be debated and there could be many reasons. Being a radar tech wouldn’t expose use to fusion welding fumes which would give you the combo of the rare earths and the toxic particles. How do you account for all to toxic particles with hahneman? It’s not so much about wearing a black clip on tie because your right it wasn’t uncommon but it’s about linking wearer of the tie to the environment that can account for the biggest particle family tree which I believe I’ve done. 

Edited April 3, 2019 by Nicholas Broughton

[FLYJACK 654]

2 hours ago, Nicholas Broughton said:

Fly I disagree with you...Bruce (top norjack expert), the pilot bill, northwest orient employees (see loren Peterson interview) are all on record of saying they believed this guy had a supreme level of knowledge about the aircraft in question, the Boeing 727. That night the fbi had to call one of klansnics  coworkers, Peter Gallimore a flight ops engineer from the very department Klansnic worked in, Boeing commercial airplanes. They wanted to determine if somebody could parachute out safely and if the plane could fly safely with the metrics cooper requested (see tribute to Peter Gallimore) If he wasn’t an expert then how did he know about the exclusive 727 flap setting of 15 degrees? It’s not like he requested it as if given intructions on what to tell them. He was actually asked what he wanted the flaps at and he said 15. Per loren Peterson he gave specifics on how to fill the fuel tanks, he wanted a certain balance of the fuel tanks and he knew exactly how long it took to fuel up. There are enough tells there to assume he was a 727 expert. You point at one thing about him having Tina lower it. That can be debated and there could be many reasons. Being a radar tech wouldn’t expose use to fusion welding fumes which would give you the combo of the rare earths and the toxic particles. How do you account for all to toxic particles with hahneman? It’s not so much about wearing a black clip on tie because your right it wasn’t uncommon but it’s about linking wearer of the tie to the environment that can account for the biggest particle family tree which I believe I’ve done. 

2 hours ago, Nicholas Broughton said:

 

"supreme" level of knowledge is a vague and subjective term.

Cooper did have aviation knowledge but evidence suggests he did not have 727 Ventral Airstair operational knowledge as a Boeing hydraulics engineer would. Hahneman threatened to fly the 727 he hijacked, he also gave specific flight instructions and indicated specific aviation knowledge, he didn't ask to be shown how to lower the rear airstairs..

 

My point is.. 

All suspects tick boxes, some more than others and some bigger than others..

 

Specifically which rare earth/toxic particles are you referring to.. they are all used in electronics and other environments. The Tie Particle Matrix is a reflection of the Cooper Vortex, there are many combinations of logic that can fit.. but there is only one right answer.

 

Re: particles.. remember silicon spheres..

"Tom Kaye asked about “Barium Chloride” use…

Pyrotechnics… It is used for the colour green in flares, tracers and fireworks.. maybe the "Bomb"

But why on a cheap tie? and so saturated? 

Hand held sparklers use a pyrotechnic paste, there were many different formulas but many of the tie particles match ingredients that I have found. 

Some ingredients used in Sparklers.. (not complete)
Iron Cobalt Potassium Barium Cadmium Lead Zinc Calcium Nickel Copper
Lithium Boron Sodium Magnesium Aluminum Titanium Strontium Silver Indium Thallium

Used in Pyrotechnics
Yttrium (red) Silicon Phosphorus

Was Cooper celebrating the 4th of July with a hand held sparkler? Asian sparklers if Cooper was in Vietnam at the time? 

That narrows it down to millions of people."

 

also,,

 

Yttrium used in production of polyester. 

https://patents.google.com/patent/US3523104

 

Edited April 3, 2019 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 654]

1 hour ago, DerekGodsey12 said:

Wait did somebody say DB Cooper and his tie?

The length of under tie piece (back piece) on Klansnic's tie is much longer than Cooper's tie vs front piece, they are NOT the same tie. You need to check an uncropped image.

[FLYJACK 654]

24 minutes ago, DerekGodsey12 said:

Bahahahahahahhahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahahhahahahaha good one flyjack. Did your DDS DB Cooper suspect show you that? My eyes are better than yours guaranteed 

Not even close. That tie is NOT the Cooper tie. It probably isn't even a clipon based on the lengths..

 

 

[mrshutter45 21]

Robert, you were asked by Bruce not to comment on his site many times due to your behavior. you were also banned from my site for the same reason. you are slowly getting right back into your old ways of diverting a DB Cooper forum into a complaint forum.  I banned you for a reason as well as Bruce. it has nothing to do with "transparency" it has to due with your constant returning to his site when you are not welcome. it's your behavior. something you are trying very hard to hide here but is slowly coming out. 

If someone doesn't want you to comment and you do. then it's pretty obvious they will remove those comments. you are trying to shift the blame on something that is clearly your fault. you are posting on Bruce's site under a fake name.

try sticking to the topic of DB Cooper and take your own advice about things getting old or what ever you said at the start of this thread when it comes to moving on. 

Derek is bad enough. don't start clogging things up here about other forums that you are not welcome on...be happy you can post here. for now  

[FLYJACK 654]

Robert, I checked the image of KC with his tie as well, it doesn't match either. The length of the rear piece is much shorter (vs front) on Cooper's tie. Cooper's clipon tie has a fixed length.

Neither KC's nor Klansnic's tie shown in those pics match Cooper's tie. They are definitely not the Cooper tie.

 

[FLYJACK 654]

17 minutes ago, DerekGodsey12 said:

Please stop with the tie Panama Flyjack. I will say the same for Kenny’s tie, you are not qualified to judge it either. I’m not a good speaker, not good at gardening, not the best social skills, but I consider myself the best in the world with photos. I’m not saying Klansnic’s tie is a definite match that’s impossible to tell, but taking into count he is under a 727 and worked on the very programs that the particles matched, I’d say the odds are definitely in his favor. I’m not going to say it’s not Kenny’s tie either just because you say it’s not. At least Kenny had rode on a 727 and knew the basics of the aircraft. Panama Flyjack your suspect barely had shoes and could speak English. 

If you were sure and such a photo expert then you would match the tie photo's unedited and spam them all over. You haven't, you can't because it is crystal clear that Klansnic is NOT wearing the Cooper tie in that photo. The length of the rear piece is much shorter vs front piece for Cooper's tie, it is absolutely clear, not even close.

and there is no way the "James Bond" of 727 Hydraulics would need a young Stew to explain how to move a simple lever to lower the rear Airstairs. That alone virtually eliminates Klansnic. IMO, of course.

Would James Bond ask a grocery clerk how to operate his Walther PPK??

[EVickiW 0]

On 4/2/2019 at 6:48 PM, wolfriverjoe said:

You have to remember that there was a draft, even in peacetime, in the 50s. Even Elvis was subject to it.
So if Cooper was 'fortyish' in 71, that means he was 'twentyish' in 51. And subject to the draft. 
Either during/in the Korean Conflict or after it as 'just another draftee'. 

If Cooper was mid forties in '71, he could have served at the end of WWII. Leaving home at 14 - 15 and lied about his age to serve. 

Edited April 4, 2019 by EVickiW

[4lcy0ne 0]

You can keep presenting suspects, but there was only one that got FBI to end their search.  Why Thanksgiving?  Edwards committed a double murder in Portland on Thanksgiving 10 years earlier.  He escaped jail to avoid questioning and was placed on the FBI 10 most wanted list.  Phil Stanford has recently updated this case finding Edwards in the police report as actually dating Beverly that summer:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murders_of_Larry_Peyton_and_Beverly_Allan

[The Cooper Vortex 92]

So Ed Edwards is DB Cooper?

[4lcy0ne 0]

12 minutes ago, The Cooper Vortex said:

So Ed Edwards is DB Cooper?

I contacted FBI about it and they ended the case a month later, check the dates: 

[4lcy0ne 0]

Does Klansic have a criminal record?  You would not need to hijack a plane for $200k if you had cush job a Boeing.  How much was he making per year there in 1970's $$??

[FLYJACK 654]

59 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Just for the record, we (this means 'Adventure Books of Seattle staff') do NOT believe any pictures of Christiansen showing him wearing a tie are pictures showing the tie used by the hijacker. 

One reason is they don't match exactly. 

The other reason is we believe Cooper obtained the tie from another source other than his clothes closet. One thing we noticed was that Cooper was extremely careful to retrieve evidence. He took back the matchbook from Mucklow, for example, most likely because his fingerprints were now on it. He had the notes returned to him. He disposed of the briefcase and its contents. No one found the paper bag, and anything else that came directly from Cooper...EXCEPT the tie. 

Instead of disposing of it, he lays it casually across one of the seats, as if he knew it could not be traced to him. 

My opinion is that he either borrowed, or purchased it shortly prior to the hijacking at a thrift store. He probably didn't buy it new because the width, as the Penneys guy told the FBI, was a few years out of style. 

Based on the labels the Cooper tie was manufactured around 1965.

[mrshutter45 21]

Robert, while trying to insult people you should at least insult the right person. if you read my post correctly (which you didn't) you would notice that Tom Kaye provided the information regarding the location of the placard. you should also note Tom Kaye is not from Washington and post the same response of (enough said) about his status? 

Bruce removes your comments because you have been TOLD multiple times not to post there and continue to disrespect Bruce. reason being your behavior. Bruce doesn't know how to ban people properly which wouldn't stop you anyway because you post under a false name. 

I didn't realize researching an old unsolved mystery was exclusive to those who live in the area and if you don't live there are subject to insults. examples like 377, Grey, Kaye need to have (enough said, or he's from California, Arizona, New York) when using them for any matter surrounding this case. remember, you must be fair....you shoot from the hip often not realizing you insult more than just me with your obsession. 

In 1971, not today. Cooper knew the tie couldn't link him. almost 50 years and it still hasn't. carry on with the insults and blurry photo's. 

 

carry on getting to the bottom of things

 

Edited April 5, 2019 by mrshutter45

[4lcy0ne 0]

11 hours ago, DerekGodsey12 said:

Do you think the people in the Cities of Sacramento and Visalia Thought an officer from the nearby cities of Auburn and Exeter was the perpetrator raping, stealing, and killing? They thought he was some teenager on drugs. The man would nut all over peoples beds. He would take a dump in front of their refrigerators, yet he was a cop. Dummies get caught, cases like DB Cooper we don’t set the bar high enough. Don’t forget Klansnic spent 13 months a prisoner of the worse people to ever exist, the Nazis. You think he came out the same way he went in? You don’t think all the work he put into the SST program and to have the rug dragged out from under him again by his government didn’t effect him? I live in a town with about 2500 people. The FBI has came to my town about 4 times and for 3 of the people I went to church with them that’s no joke. If a case goes over a year without being solved start with the sheriff and work your way down with suspects 

 

"The description on one wire service:  Master Criminal"  - Original Newscast:  

 

 

 

[4lcy0ne 0]

Someday people would hear of Ed Edwards, master criminal. -MOAC p.38

 

 

[PhreeZone 15]

Any further posts that are just talking about other posters and not the topic at hand will find the poster on a temporary ban from the site.

Any posts that are just reposting of the same pictures that were linked to in the last few posts will also find their accounts on a temporary ban.

 

This thread was reopened to have a civil discussion on the topic - not to allow posters to throw insults at each other or spam the forum with the same photos time after time.

[FLYJACK 654]

There was a "little bob" noted on the flight data recorder, it is a magnetic foil marked by servos.. on the 727 it is located right in the Airstair cavity. The time was 8:09 which is derived from radio transmissions. IF that FDR "little bob" was the Airstairs retracting and hitting the plane after Cooper jumped then this is the probable LZ. This accounts for an error rate in flightpath and approx 8:09 jump time. It is speculation based on the assumption that the "little bob" on the FDR was made from the Airstairs banging back into the plane after Cooper left.

 

 

Edited April 5, 2019 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 654]

50 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

My guess is that the actual landing zone is a bit further south of Lake Merwin, but not much. Here are a couple of pictures from the original notebook belonging to the Cowlitz County Sheriff. He got his information straight from FBI agent Thomas Manning. These notes were made during the late night during the hijacking, and into the next morning:

(On one of the pictures you can see where Manning told the sheriff where the FBI thought Cooper landed, i.e. "2 1/2 miles south of Ariel, and 4 miles NNW of Crawford")  Crawford isn't really a town, but more of a general area farther south of Ariel. 

The red lines in the one picture, showing how Manning described the bomb, were added later by me. 

 

Interesting, the "little bob" on the FDR was found later On 12/2/71.. 

 

BTW.. Latin appearance, curly hair (wavy, marceled) = Hahneman

 

Edited April 6, 2019 by FLYJACK

[4lcy0ne 0]

31 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

My guess is that the actual landing zone is a bit further south of Lake Merwin, but not much.

 

 

 

 

Interesting you think he jumped in wooded area.  If I recall correctly didn't he say in Ha Ha Ha that he jumped near Reno just to avoid the trees and land on sand?  It makes a lot more sense to jump in the desert.  

[FLYJACK 654]

3 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Well...Ha Ha Ha is total fiction, of course. The area south of Lake Merwin and down toward Woodland is mostly rolling hills, somewhat wooded, yes. Not the total wilderness that people have made it out to be. If we're going to bust another myth in the Cooper case, let's bust the one about the weather. Many people claim that there was a big storm that day. In reality, it was a dreary day with that misty rain stuff here and there. And at around 8PM the winds dropped to their lowest ground level speed of the day. Below is a snapshot from the historical weather record, via Portland International Airport. Data from Weather Underground, 11/24/1971. PDX:

Looking at this partial record, what it really means is THIS:  At the time Cooper jumped, winds were a mild 7-10MPH at ground level. It was about 42 degrees. Rain must have been extremely light. There are only two entries totaling less than 0.2 inches over a fifteen hour period just prior, and into the next afternoon following the hijacking. It was probably typical dreary November weather, but no storm at all. (At the time of the hijacking I was living in Sumner, Washington which is not far from Tacoma. This weather report pretty much matches what I saw that day up in Sumner.) Everyone and his brother were glued to the TV by the way...watching the drama play out at the airport.   

You can view the full data available for that day at PDX (Portland Airport) at Weather Underground HERE. 

What is interesting is that the wind was from ESE 8mph at 8 PM and changee to from the S..

What was it near Arial... at 8 PM

The Placard was found directly under the flight path, it left the plane about 8:03. An ESE wind would be consistent with that.

[FLYJACK 654]

The winds are important, the PDX data suggests it wasn't constant but shifting from ESE and that affects both the placard and Cooper's parachute drift..

The assumption has always been a universally constant wind.. pushing Cooper E of flight path.

 

[mrshutter45 21]

You have no proof they still have the chute. even if it's not considered evidence they will not talk about it because it's linked to the case. the stamp on it is NOT consistent with a personnel chute. the markings are consistent with a cargo chute. thousands of them were sold to the public and are laying all over the country. you don't have any idea how long it was even in the place it was found. just like 36% of forestland is private property. 

 

The point is. even if it was ruled out it's still part of the case. that's a loophole that gives them the right to say they can't discuss it. it's not very hard to understand. 

Edited April 6, 2019 by mrshutter45

[mrshutter45 21]

As far as I know nobody tried to match the markings to a cargo chute. I found several of them and posted them multiple times over the years. you lack the reasoning to understand a personnel chute has much more information on it. 

The photo below is a personnel canopy. note the difference in data....they don't just put a date on it with a non-traceable number...I'm sure regulations are requiring this information. you are on a skydiving site, so ask instead of assuming it's Cooper's and it's the chute from the hijacking. yes, you are implying that. 

The FBI is not obligated to tell us anything. especially if it's an open case. you can't call the FBI liars when you try to use someone just looking at the chute and stating something. that's the same tactics you accuse the FBI of by just looking at it...quickly, over the phone etc. what do you know about the phone calls. perhaps easy ways to find out whether the chute is of value. can you prove that can't be done? you have no way of even knowing how long the chute was at that location. was it months, years, decades?