DB Cooper

[Guru312 0]

hangdiver

Hi 377...I noticed you didn't use 550 cord.
hangdiver

DB did use 550 cord... which is why he lost the bank bag and the money was found.

Some things to consider which I have mentioned 2-3 times over the years:

He cut a number of lengths of cord from one rig. He probably did his best to tie the bank bag with that cord. He could kneel on the bag or push it against a seat/seat bracket and tie the bag up like a Christmas present box. He probably would do that before putting the rig on.

Five years or so ago, I was able to speak with the president of the bank bag company which likely manufactured the bag. We spoke for well over an hour because he remembered hearing of the hijacking when he was a young teenager and he was fascinated by the hijacking.

He told me that his company, located in Alabama, was the largest mfgr of bank bags in the world with some huge percentage of the bank bag market. He told me that his company did not have records back as far as the crime date so he could not definitively say that his company made the bag but they were currently making bags for SeaFirst. [I think that is what he said is the bank company name now.]

After the bag was tied, DB put the rig on and then attempted to tie the bag to either his body, as a FA said she saw him do, or tie it to his harness...or both.

Doing the tying of the tied bag to his harness by himself would be VERY difficult IMO. Because I believe he was not a skydiver, or military jumper, he wouldn't know of the vortex of turbulence he'd be encountering on exit. Airtwardo and 377 and others have mentioned how severe the exit and turbulence could be. [I have not jumped from a 727 so I have no personal knowledge; I accept what Airtwardo and 377 say. [I have jumped from C-119, C-123, C-130 and various civilian aircraft. None of which had exit turbulence as described by various jumpers.]

DB had no prior knowledge of the importance of having the bag tied VERY tightly and having it tied even more tightly and sufficiently to himself (body and/or harness).

Whether he lived or not...he lost the bag. He did so because he couldn't hold it and tie a sufficient knot by himself. Too cumbersome, awkward and difficult to tie the 550 cord. I'm a rigger and think tying the bag would be very difficult for me, or anyone, without help.

The bank president told me that the money could "survive" for many years tied in a treated canvas duck bag. He speculated that it could last for decades in the elements. He told me that they made various "models" of bag with rubberized "coatings" and impregnated sealants which would protect the money for years if the bag was tied tightly enough to have no movement of the money. He mentioned that a combination of wetness and abrasion would quickly degrade the money.

Again, I submit that tying the bag closed with sufficient "tightness" would be rather easy. Certainly much easier than doing a good job of tying it to himself which would be exceedingly difficult.

Occam's Razor indicates to me the following:

1. He lost the bag on exit because of the poorly executed tying to himself and the described turbulence on exit or opening shock.

2. The bag fell, in tact and tied closed, into an area within a flood plain of the river or directly into the river. Because of the bag type of material, the bag could exist for many years "in the elements".

3. 550 cord degrades in sunlight as does ripstop nylon. We all learned this early in our "packing" instruction classes. Over time the integrity of the combination of bag and 550 cord began to fail.

4. Either the bag moved by water flow from being in the river or by dredging. At some point, degradation of 550 cord and the canvas duck caused the bag to spill open. This process taking years.

5. I speculate that this degradation of bag/cord happened somewhat close in time to the money find which is the reason the money was found "together". Had the money been free of the bag for months it would be pulled apart and essentially destroyed by abrasion and water action.

I'm a great believer in the Law of Parsimony and Occam's Razor. Oh, wait, I wrote that already.

Applying both/either, I assume that no one subjecting themselves to what DB did that night is going to throw away money to "trick" the FBI/police. He's going to keep every bit he can...less the macho, braggadocious act of offering the FA a pack.

Dead or alive it really doesn't matter except as an academic thought experiment.

Simply put, he lost the money bag because he couldn't tie it sufficiently with integrity to "survive" the turbulence of exit/opening shock.

Whether the writers, authors, house cleaners, poets, college professors, lawyers, little old ladies or retired cops make any money from DB Cooper remains to be seen. I know that I made many aircraft payments, paid a few riggers, ate some fine meals and had a lot of money to spend from the money I made because my advert caused the "average" person reading it to believe that I was DB Cooper. The newspaper articles written after the advert caused a huge bump in the number of our new students.

Thank you so much DB Cooper where ever you are!

Quade, you can close this thread down now...Everyone else: move along, nothing more to see here.

Guru312

I am not DB Cooper

[Hominid 0]

Guru312

Occam's Razor indicates to me the following:

1. He lost the bag on exit because of the poorly executed tying to himself and the described turbulence on exit or opening shock.

None of the "described turbulence" or "opening shock" has been experienced by anyone here having jumped from the end of an airstair on a 727.

[georger 197]

RobertMBlevins

Lot of speculation on the Tina Bar money back in that last post there...but that's all it really is. And there is a fly or two in your Tina Bar money theory. First, the condition of the money. The three folks who were actually allowed to examine the bills say 'no way' to the money being exposed to water or the open elements for over eight years. The other is you assume strongly the hijacker wouldn't be willing to give up a few bills in an attempt to throw off the FBI.

What motivation would be enough? Being locked up if caught for the rest of your life, as far as you know? They gave McCoy forty years I think. Finding out in 1976 that instead of being free and clear on November 24th of that year, that the FBI (%$!!!%#$!) got themselves a little John Doe warrant and instead...were going to be looking for your ass the rest of your life? ('Oh, yeah? I'll show them...')

On the 550 cord, no one knows how MUCH he used or how WELL he actually tied the whole thing, or whether he pulled off the stairs and held on tightly to the package. Then there's the 'nothing else found...EVER,' problem. He could have doubled, tripled, etc the amount of line he used to attach it. No one knows.

What you have is another Cooper theory, mostly based on your thoughts on the matter. That's okay, but the conclusions are as yet...unproven.

Side Note: On the size of the paper bag, the attached picture shows where I got the dimensions of 4x12x14 inches. This IS larger than a lunch bag.

And what you have is pure distortion - you have either either made up, lack facts on, and decided to fill in on your own - in any event!

A few items you distort:

(1) "only three folks who were actually allowed to
examine the bills. Quite obviously Tom Kaye has not educated
you or you have chosen to play ignorant? Or you are guessing.

(2) No disagrement between those who have examined the
money? That's plain funny! Where did you make that up from?

(3) "What motivation would be enough?" is involved.
Hmmm. Where in physics-mathematics is a symbol for -
MOTIVATION? Where are the clear signs and symbols and
artifacts of MOTIVATION readings at Tina Bar? Ludicrous!

(4) "On the 550 cord..." f=ma ? Do you know that? Can yuou
apply that simple formula vs assigning MOTIVATIONS?

(5) "He could have doubled, tripled, etc the amount of line he
used to attach it. No one knows." Hmmm. Well yes someone
does know or has a good idea. Evidently you missed that section
at Tom Kaye's site.

(56) "What you have is another Cooper theory, mostly based on
your thoughts on the matter. That's okay, but the conclusions
are as yet...unproven." And your non-theory is based on
something better than your thoughts on the matter ?
Prove it! Start with f=ma!

(98) "Side Note: On the size of the paper bag, the attached
picture shows where I got the dimensions of 4x12x14 inches.
This IS larger than a lunch bag." You mean you were there and
saw it!? Or you use a Ouija board? What does your paper bag
say? What are it's MOTIVATIONS?

Blevins, yours is called: junk science and guessing

[georger 197]

Guru312

***I think I may have bought a BUNCH of beer for a bullshit artist!

LOL...wouldn't be the first time.

In the late 1960s, an older guy showed up on my drop zone and said he wanted to make a jump. I asked if he had ever jumped. He answered, "Yeah, a few at a bunch of different drop zones."

After he said he had a log book, I told him to get his gear on, bring his log book and to meet at the PLF platform. He came strolling over wearing some really old coveralls with cloth military wings on his chest. I did a double take because the wings had two stars on each wing. I'm thinking, "...yeah right, this guy has four combat jumps?!"

Thinking he's a huge bullshit artist, I motioned to the wings and asked him, "Where did you buy the wings?"

Well, he went ballistic. He was quite sincere...in his anger. I thought he was either one hell of an actor or he had actually made four combat jumps. He rattled off where he had jumped when I asked him. He had jumped at Normandy and had landed about a mile outside of Ste-Mère-Église. His body language told me he was for real. I asked him how many people had four combat jumps; his answer was something like, "I think there's a hundred or so of us still around."

He continued to jump with me for years and I ended teaching two of sons to jump.

We remained very good friends until he died about 25 years ago. At his services, his wife and sons had created a display of memorabilia with photographs, medals and letters from his time during WWII. I was humbled by what I saw. He wasn't a bullshit artist; he was a genuine airborne hero!!

RIP, Walt Santman...thinking of you now makes my eyes leak.

I didnt get my uncle called tonight but will tomorrow night.
I will find out who the guy is he jumped with - the guy on the
steeple. I could be totally wrong but I may have heard the
name 'Walt' before. I will find out. I know my uncle and one of
his sons Ricky (a long time newspaper man in this State),
have attended a few reunions, one back about 1999-2000?
They went back to EU with a group and toured cemeteries at
Normandy etc.

Let me make this brief - here are a few.

Its headed to -20 here tonight so I need to make a 2:00am
water pipe run ...

[Joachim77 0]

...wouldn't he be extremely cold? And possible use of wool-underwear wouldn't be much help bcause it was raining. I guess he would be desperate to get the body temperature up.

Do some of you have a consequence analysis of how long he could have survived out there considering the weather/temperature? What could he do not to freeze to death? Run to the nearest house/cabin/bus/taxi? Then someone should have seen him?

In the best case of where he could have landed landed, how long walk would he face to get some warmth? And would this be possible? And how could he return home/to a safe place without beeing seen? I guess his cold/wet condition and in a suit would draw some attention.

In advance - thanks for any comments on this? And again sorry for any strange writing - jeg er norsk ( I'm norwegian).

Thanks in advance

[georger 197]

RobertMBlevins

Attached picture shows some standard paper bag sizes closest to the one described as being carried by the hijacker. The one that is closest would actually be one inch taller, and one inch narrower at the base. Also two inches more in width as viewed from the front.

Bigger than a lunch bag, anyway...
Not pictured: One very common size bag is listed as 3 1/2" bottom, 12" across the front, and 18" high. If the hijacker folded down the top of the bag, this could account for the 14" height described by stewardess(es). (Bag described as 4" bottom, 12" across the front, and 14" high.)

amazing!

where did 'handles on the bag' come from?

Brown ..... Paper ..... bag ..... (no handles mentioned)

[Joachim77 0]

Thanks! And is this a point: there are many more "living" suspects than missing persons for the relevant time. Anyone except Melvin?
Ergo more likely survived.

And is there a "scientific" answer to who of the known suspects resembles the sketch most? Is it Gossett? And if he told the truth about the money in a bank in Vancouver, is it possible to ask Canada to look for it? Or is it the same secreacy as a Swiss bank account?

Magne they should be put some pressure on: show us Cooper evidence or we will buy maple syrup elsewhere!

[Amazon 7]

Joachim77

...wouldn't he be extremely cold? And possible use of wool-underwear wouldn't be much help bcause it was raining. I guess he would be desperate to get the body temperature up.

Do some of you have a consequence analysis of how long he could have survived out there considering the weather/temperature? What could he do not to freeze to death? Run to the nearest house/cabin/bus/taxi? Then someone should have seen him?

In the best case of where he could have landed landed, how long walk would he face to get some warmth? And would this be possible? And how could he return home/to a safe place without beeing seen? I guess his cold/wet condition and in a suit would draw some attention.

In advance - thanks for any comments on this? And again sorry for any strange writing - jeg er norsk ( I'm norwegian).

Thanks in advance

Wool suit.. wool longhandles... go experiment.. you will find you can wring the water out... and you will still have insulating properties.. Walking.. you build up heat with no problem at all.

Thousands of hunters do this every year in the same conditions and the same time of year in Washington.

[hangdiver 1]

Quote

Dead or alive it really doesn't matter except as an academic thought experiment.

Simply put, he lost the money bag because he couldn't tie it sufficiently with integrity to "survive" the turbulence of exit/opening shock.

I'm with you on the above quote Guru312...if he lived..."hey I'm Dan Cooper"... "yeah right show us the money"..."ah uh I lost it"

Doh!!

I think some jumper should get a bag of paper...20-22lbs, some 550 cord and do the jump...if I was 20 years younger I'd do it.

Lets see...my youngest son is a jumper with about 150 jumps...I bet he'd do it...ha.ha.

hangdiver

"Mans got to know his limitations"
Harry Callahan

[airtwardo 6]

Amazon

***...wouldn't he be extremely cold? And possible use of wool-underwear wouldn't be much help bcause it was raining. I guess he would be desperate to get the body temperature up.

Do some of you have a consequence analysis of how long he could have survived out there considering the weather/temperature? What could he do not to freeze to death? Run to the nearest house/cabin/bus/taxi? Then someone should have seen him?

In the best case of where he could have landed landed, how long walk would he face to get some warmth? And would this be possible? And how could he return home/to a safe place without beeing seen? I guess his cold/wet condition and in a suit would draw some attention.

In advance - thanks for any comments on this? And again sorry for any strange writing - jeg er norsk ( I'm norwegian).

Thanks in advance

Wool suit.. wool longhandles... go experiment.. you will find you can wring the water out... and you will still have insulating properties.. Walking.. you build up heat with no problem at all.

Thousands of hunters do this every year in the same conditions and the same time of year in Washington.

I always wondered about footwear 'Zon, not the best choice all things considered.

Then again I only have 'my' personal experience to go on...I'm considerably bigger/heavier than the D.B. description...I know I would have to have ankle protection or I'd be crawling not walking out.

That is if his shoes stayed on!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[Amazon 7]

airtwardo

******...wouldn't he be extremely cold? And possible use of wool-underwear wouldn't be much help bcause it was raining. I guess he would be desperate to get the body temperature up.

Do some of you have a consequence analysis of how long he could have survived out there considering the weather/temperature? What could he do not to freeze to death? Run to the nearest house/cabin/bus/taxi? Then someone should have seen him?

In the best case of where he could have landed landed, how long walk would he face to get some warmth? And would this be possible? And how could he return home/to a safe place without beeing seen? I guess his cold/wet condition and in a suit would draw some attention.

In advance - thanks for any comments on this? And again sorry for any strange writing - jeg er norsk ( I'm norwegian).

Thanks in advance

Wool suit.. wool longhandles... go experiment.. you will find you can wring the water out... and you will still have insulating properties.. Walking.. you build up heat with no problem at all.

Thousands of hunters do this every year in the same conditions and the same time of year in Washington.

I always wondered about footwear 'Zon, not the best choice all things considered.

Then again I only have 'my' personal experience to go on...I'm considerably bigger/heavier than the D.B. description...I know I would have to have ankle protection or I'd be crawling not walking out.

That is if his shoes stayed on!

I am betting they stayed on..pPenny loafers just aint THAT loose and having jumped jets with tenny runners... I am thinking the whole SUPER JET BLAST WILL STRIP YOU AND LEAVE YOU NEKKID scenarios are so much wuffo-waffle. The exit area at that time of year might be a bit soggy... but its not like if he exited over the mountains 20 miles east where there would have been significant snow on the ground.
Elk season in the low lying hills above the resevoirs on the Lewis River is still relatively soggy ground.. but its covered with lots of forest duff and sword ferns... easy walkin. If your feet get wet with wool socks.. strip em off wring em out... put em back on and your feet will be damp.. but not sloshing.. and they will still be warm.... done it a hundred times.

[Robert99 37]

RobertMBlevins

***Thanks! And is this a point: there are many more "living" suspects than missing persons for the relevant time. Anyone except Melvin?
Ergo more likely survived.

And is there a "scientific" answer to who of the known suspects resembles the sketch most? Is it Gossett? And if he told the truth about the money in a bank in Vancouver, is it possible to ask Canada to look for it? Or is it the same secreacy as a Swiss bank account?

Magne they should be put some pressure on: show us Cooper evidence or we will buy maple syrup elsewhere!

Gossett? Maybe. Here's a picture of him taken about 18 months after the hijacking, during his retirement ceremony from the Army. You decide.

Joachim, You can ignore the "popular" Cooper candidates that have been named on this thread. If an when Cooper is ever identified, his name will probably be one that has never been mentioned on this thread.

And there is nothing whatsoever to suggest that Blevin's candidate or Jo Weber's late husband had anything to do with the hijacking. KC and Duane are only mentioned as Cooper candidates because they are dead at this point. And that means that they can't defend themselves or correct the record.

When Cooper jumped, fell, or was thrown off the stairs into a 225 MPH slipstream, the wind chill factor was about 35 degrees below zero (F or C, your choice in that range) and things would not improve very much during his free fall. And he had been exposed to "cold" temperatures for about 30 minutes before he jumped. So cold was a define problem for him.

Robert99

[ParrotheadVol 70]

Joachim77

Thanks! And is this a point: there are many more "living" suspects than missing persons for the relevant time. Anyone except Melvin?
Ergo more likely survived.

And is there a "scientific" answer to who of the known suspects resembles the sketch most? Is it Gossett? And if he told the truth about the money in a bank in Vancouver, is it possible to ask Canada to look for it? Or is it the same secreacy as a Swiss bank account?

Magne they should be put some pressure on: show us Cooper evidence or we will buy maple syrup elsewhere!

Seems like someone did an experiment several years ago in which a computer program picked Weber as the one that mostly resembled the sketch....which sketch, I'm not sure. But that was years ago (I think it was mentioned on the KOIN segments about Mayfield, which can be seen on YouTube). I wouldn't put much stock into that though. Personally, I'd bet any amount of money I had that Weber isn't DBC. I would bet even more that Christiansen isn't DBC. The Gossett story, at least to me, is very lacking in anything that would even make me think for half a second that he could be the guy. If Cooper survived, my money is on someone we have yet to - and probably never will - discuss.

"They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

[377 20]

Airtwardo wrote

Quote

I always wondered about footwear 'Zon, not the best choice all things considered.

Then again I only have 'my' personal experience to go on...I'm considerably bigger/heavier than the D.B. description...I know I would have to have ankle protection or I'd be crawling not walking out.

That is if his shoes stayed on!

Brings to mind the curiously out of place sequence in Sheridan Peterson's book about Nam. The hero Grecco is walking along the banks of the Columbia River in winter with bitterly cold feet because of inadequate footwear. Just odd. Doesnt really mesh with the rest of the book.

Also odd that you can no longer buy his book online. He was hawking it aggressively a few years ago. Now it's unobtainable.

From Wikipedia:

Quote

User:Smokejumperpete


From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Smokejumperpete,

I spent seven years in Vietnam throughout the war and wrote an eye witness documentary of the war mainly through the eyes of Vietnamese. The 826 page documentary is entitled The Idiot's Frightful Laughter. Smokejumperpete.

From Backtalk, an anti war site:

Quote

Tale of Two Free Countries

The problem is not the Bush Administration. They are there by default. It’s the American people. They have their heads buried in the sand, so to speak. I wrote a documented protest novel, The Idiot’s Frightful Laughter, of the Vietnam War. I was there throughout most of the war and saw the genocide first hand. Do you think the American people want to know the truth? Not in the least. They want escape novels. Romanticized version of the war by guys like Tom Clancy, where the troops are noble and kind. That’s essentially what the editors and literary critics tell me. They don’t want to see my novel. They say that my synopsis of the novel is commendable but they are not in the market for grim reality. The American public does not want to know the truth. So who’s to blame? Idiots like Bush and Cheney or the average American? You tell me.

~ Sheridan Peterson

Negatives include: Blue eyes, FBI Cooper tie DNA mismatch, long time proponent of non violence, claims to have been in Nepal at the time of the crime.

But you'd be very hard pressed to find a more qualified candidate skills and experience wise.

I don't think the FBI believed the Nepal alibi otherwise they would not have kept pressing him for a DNA sample.

Why didn't they rule him out immediately based on eye color? Did they see brown contacts as a credible disguise in 1971?

If Mitchells "turkey" chin/neck observation is accurate Melvin Wilson sure has that characteristic. So does Gosset in Blevins photo taken about a year after the skyjack, but not nearly as pronounced as Wilson.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[skyjack71 0]

1. The ONLY PAPER BAG MENTIONED BY THE STEWARDESSES WAS A SMALL BAG ONE WOULD HAVE ASSUMED CAME FROM ONE OF THE VENDORS AT THE AIRPORT OR PERHAPS SOMETHING COOPER PICKED UP BEFORE HE ARRIVED AT THE AIRPORT.

WHAT WAS IN THAT LITTLE BAG IS YET KNOWN.

2. I read some of the postings and things are getting on the side of absurd regarding a small paper bag - in my layman's opinion. Cooper DID NOT take the money out of the plane in a paper bag....perhaps I am missing something. Sounds like the guys taking about a paper bag are clueless.

3. None of the above is why I am posting mid day!

Anyone who is really interested in solving this case needs to read what I am putting on the thread today. This information needs research far above my capabilities with dial-up & limited capabilities to know how to search certain things. Your help is sincerely appreciated.

NOW what is very very important.

A man by the name of Ben Richard or Richards or Richardson lived NOT far from the Corner Tavern. He lived in a homemade camper some place above the Tavern Location and was a regular.

In 2001 when I was with the documentary crew a man in the Tavern who was an owner (I think).
I remember his name was SNOW (last name). I remember that because his hair was snow white. My notes from that day are buried in this massive garbage collection or rewritten. Therefore I am winging this on my memory.

He pulled me aside and told me the man I needed to talk to was Ben Richards - NOT sure if that is correct.

There was another man who came to the Tavern with him who fit the description of Weber (what photos I had to show at that time). The younger man would sing for his drinks!

Now with NEW information finding out who that man was & what he did is VERY important. The man was older than Duane Weber...but, not old enough to have been his father.

I found one man whose name is Ben Richards died in 1996 and lived in the Brush Prairie area...but no obit or contact information regarding relatives. This was an old search from 2002.

Snow told me the man "made" things, but did not elaborate. The man obviously had built his own camper in which he lived in the woods. (Snow referred to him as hermit like). The area the man sent the crew & I to was North of the Tavern & we were supposed to turn left which is West.

We kept riding around, but could not see a cabin nor a camper. We figured it was a wild goose chase & they had other things they wanted to do with the limited time. Perhaps the directions were misunderstood.

When I went to WA 2010 the Tavern was not there - at least the building was not. Development had overwhelmed the area. I knew the building had been sold, but did NOT expect to see the development so advanced in 9 yrs.

The name is Ben Richards -not sure of his middle name or what the Ben stood for. I found in the SS a Benjamin R. Richards....He was deceased I filed it and forgot about in 2002 or 2003.


Move forward to 2011:

Now I have reason to pursue this man's history - very seriously. Remember my throwing out in the thread BRR. I chased this along with someone else & we kept coming up in a dead ends.

The BRR was on an item in a place connected to Weber, but NO one seemed to be able to explain it.

The athorities in charge of the files REFUSED to give us a name for which the initials stood for. I had forgot about the man I was told about in 2001. I have been tearing down old files and destroying stuff - too much to move. I found the old 2002 search I did.

Well, I had NOT told the man who helped me the last few yrs about this Ben Richards. When he came up with BRR my mind did NOT make the connection back to 2001....and the man at the bar.
My mind was searching for people Duane knew or mentioned during out yrs together - he had NOT told me the man's name.

The search in 2002 was in the old files hit me like a ton of bricks - we had been searching for a BRR for 3 yrs and I had it all along. I
I research something and then just file it away! Damn Dumb Broad! Dam'it!

In 2002 after the 2001 trip I tried to find the man Snow had told me about. The man per what I found was deceased. Can't talk to a dead man.

Then in 2010 the BRR came up, but I did NOT connect the 2 until a couple of days ago! DUMB BLOND SYNDROME - I told you guys so, but some try to make me out to be more than I am.

Now I am desperate. Time is NOT on my side and so I am asking and begging for help regarding this.

The memory of what Duane told me about the Corner Tavern included a man who lived not far from there and what he told me matched what Snow told me. I kept thinking it is a fALSE memory, but this insignificant piece of paper started to SHOUT at me. You stupid idiot!

I dug back into my old notes prior to 2002 and there it was - the story just as I had told it from get go about The Tavern...therefore it WAS not a false memory.

Then I checked back on things I had written about my memories of the old trip - there it was! Duane told me about a man who lived not far from the Corner Tavern, "but we we aren't going there today".

What I had found on the deceased man matches what I Duane stated was brief in 1979 on that trip.

I need some help with this...I need to know all I can about this man. I knew he built things - just what I do not know. Since he built his own camper which required having knowledge of frame work and metal - my mind just will not STOP. What Duane said ab tou the VOR and the Towers....The BOYS working on it. Those towers are metal! The man may only have been associtated in that respect, but how did Duane know so much about the VOR. He explained things that went totally over my head and things that were of NO importance to me.

Even digging into Cooper all of these yrs - NOT one time DID I THINK about who built the Towers. I did ask about who built the VOR's - the equipment in the VORS was top technology for the time period they were placed. I do NOt know when the VOR was built that is just out of Battleground along after turning onto Meadow (I believe) Glade.

NOW guys this is coming out of my head so if I get the names of something wrong do NOT diss me. This is so important that I had to post it RIGHT now! NOT wait and the procrastinate as I do on so much.
Procrastination cannot be a part of me right now. Secrets cannot be a part of me right now.

I need answers and help on this NOW not wks from now which would be the case if I didn't go public with this like I am doing at this moment.

I will go back and check for spelling errors - but I am doing this as fast as I can. I NEED THE HELP OF THE GUYS ON THIS THREAD and I need it now.
I can't wait for the FBI or some computer geek or someone interested in Cooper for profit to dilly dally and it come one day to late.

PLEASE HELP ME WITH THIS.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[377 20]

Jo wrote:

Quote

Anyone who is really interested in solving this case needs to read what I am putting on the thread today. This information needs research far above my capabilities with dial-up & limited capabilities to know how to search certain things. Your help is sincerely appreciated.

Jo,

Since this has become your life's work and possible swan song shouldn't you reconsider dial up and go to something better? Fast internet access abounds and can be quite inexpensive.

Bruce probably thinks you already have rooms full of servers, web crawlers galore and several T 10 lines. Maybe even an encrypted hotline to your "handlers" in Langley, Capetown and Quantico.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Robert99 37]

377

Jo wrote:

Quote

Anyone who is really interested in solving this case needs to read what I am putting on the thread today. This information needs research far above my capabilities with dial-up & limited capabilities to know how to search certain things. Your help is sincerely appreciated.

Jo,

Since this has become your life's work and possible swan song shouldn't you reconsider dial up and go to something better? Fast internet access abounds and can be quite inexpensive.

Bruce probably thinks you already have rooms full of servers, web crawlers galore and several T 10 lines. Maybe even an encrypted hotline to your "handlers" in Langley, Capetown and Quantico.

377

Jo is just trying to keep her career as an undercover FBI agent out of the thread. But she meets all the requirements for undercover work. She claims other people are covert agents, that she hates the FBI although actually working for them, etc., etc..

Bruce is probably right about her computer equipment.

Robert99

[377 20]

Jo wrote

Quote

Procrastination cannot be a part of me right now. Secrets cannot be a part of me right now.

I see hope for you overcoming procrastination Jo.

But full disclosure, no secrets, no teases? From Jo???

NOT A CHANCE.

Why do you persist in pursuing info about the VOR towers when they have no relevance to Norjack.?

There is simply no credible way Cooper could have used them for navigation info.

No VOR proximity detecting vibrating corset stays. No microwave comms from the dam control network. No CB radio that could also communicate with aircraft on the VHF aviation band. NADA.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[skyjack71 0]

377

Jo wrote:

Quote

Anyone who is really interested in solving this case needs to read what I am putting on the thread today. This information needs research far above my capabilities with dial-up & limited capabilities to know how to search certain things. Your help is sincerely appreciated.

Jo,

Since this has become your life's work and possible swan song shouldn't you reconsider dial up and go to something better? Fast internet access abounds and can be quite inexpensive.

Bruce probably thinks you already have rooms full of servers, web crawlers galore and several T 10 lines. Maybe even an encrypted hotline to your "handlers" in Langley, Capetown and Quantico.

377

Yea, you should have read the OMNIOUS email he sent me after he got put on vacation!

Seems like Jo Weber & the DZ are under investigation by Mr. Smith. Some how in my past life I supposely met Quade and we conspired to create the Cooper thread.

Never heard of the DZ until the day I found the site & signed up.
Just part of my exploring - forestry, parachutes and old smoke jumpers. That is how I found the DZ. The rest of the story U guys know by heart!

With what I have in my hands right now - the DZ has been a GOOD thing! If BR is BRR - and his background is what I expect it to be - then the FBI better do some serious re-thinking! You think!

I was so bogged down in all of the heavy stuff introduced that I lost focus of my real goal. First it was JT & then BS steps in to distract me from my goal. Now I AM again FOCUSED! After today - nothing will stop me except the MAKER! That day will come too soon for me - in the mean time - I have a mission to fulfill!

Until this moment I had never gave a thought to initials. BR, BRR, RB & BS.
Regarding internet - too expensive unless I use their phone service - in this area a land line can save your life during a hurricane.

All of my phone calls are long distance & I need my land line. Those stupid little phone I cannot talk on very long & sometimes cell service is not available - just when you need it the most.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

377

Jo wrote

Quote

Procrastination cannot be a part of me right now. Secrets cannot be a part of me right now.

I see hope for you overcoming procrastination Jo.

But full disclosure, no secrets, no teases? From Jo???

NOT A CHANCE.

Why do you persist in pursuing info about the VOR towers when they have no relevance to Norjack.?

There is simply no credible way Cooper could have used them for navigation info.

No VOR proximity detecting vibrating corset stays. No microwave comms from the dam control network. No CB radio that could also communicate with aircraft on the VHF aviation band. NADA.

377

I know U guys say NO WAY, but it is just something that BUGS me. The CB getting the Plane and Duane actually trying to talk back to them, but they were out of range. His story about the VOR, his CB handle "Worlds Greatest Jock Carrier", His knowledge of ham radios (extensive), Microwave towers, his intense expertise with telephone installations & electrical wiring - maybe just things guys like him
picked-up on to survive - but, what it?


Why did he need such an elaborate CB system - the man I went to see was curious also. I didn't understand what he was talking about way back then - but, even over the road long haulers didn't have the system Duane had in his vehicle.

I didn't know what the guy was talking about and back then it meant ZERO to me! Now I want to know and the man is deceased.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[377 20]

Jo wrote

Quote

Seems like Jo Weber & the DZ are under investigation by Mr. Smith. Some how in my past life I supposely met Quade and we conspired to create the Cooper thread.

The plot thickens Jo. Bruce will be all over this.
Did you know that Quade was tracked by USAF radar skydiving through AREA 51 airspace

Quote

Seems as if the Cammo Guys were convinced by the Nellis ATC (which I read as Area 51 ATC) that although we had exited over the MOA that we had drifted into the airspace of Area 51 and that they could easily see that on radar. What? Our hip rings? You gotta be kidding me? Well, I guess they do have some pretty good radar up there

Found this while searching for info on radar tracking of skydivers. It's our Quade for sure.

http://www.futurecam.com/area51.html

It's labeled fiction, but thats CIA SOP, something about "plausible deniability".

I guess the CIA didn't properly coordinate the op with the Air Force. No prob. A call to Langley and Nellis AFB brass were soon apologizing to Quade and inviting him to the Officers Club for drinks. Q didn't even ask to see the captured flying disc or the embalmed aliens, as he had already seen the full report and didnt want to be perceived as a gawking tourist in Dreamland.

Jo, can you get me a few of those CIA get out of jail free jump anywhere cards? I'll recruit Hangdiver, Airtwardo, Amazon and some of my other friends here to do an El Capitan jump. I'll even invite Snow. It can be his first jump. If they are good in Area 51 it should be a piece of cake jumping in Yosemite.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 20]

Jo wrote

Quote

His [Duane's] knowledge of ham radios (extensive),

I really doubt that Jo. Hams and CB "jock carriers" dont mix real well. I see no evidence that Duane ever held and FCC license of any kind.

How could you credibly judge what the extent of Duane's ham radio expertise was?

Duane's CB-aircraft dual band two way radio is vaporware Jo. it never existed. Yet you persist in believing that it did. At best some guys in a plane may have had a CB radio but even that is highly doubtful. It's also possible that some prankster CBers pretended they were transmitting from a plane.

Jo, how did you first learn about Sheridan Peterson's job as a Bubbleator operator?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[skyjack71 0]

Robert99

Jo is just trying to keep her career as an undercover FBI agent out of the thread. But she meets all the requirements for undercover work. She claims other people are covert agents, that she hates the FBI although actually working for them, etc., etc..

Bruce is probably right about her computer equipment.

Robert99

Now that is more the atmosphere of this thread and what it used to be! A little fun and a few laugh once in a while.

Speaking of! Communications. I had forgot about something Duane had.

My daughter reminded me of this when she came to visit and I then promptly forgot it. She was talking about the CELL phone Duane had. It was a large contraption in a case with this huge battery. I didn't remember it until she reminded me of it.

My last husband had one of the early cells but the one Duane had - well, I have never seen another one like it. She remembers it better than I do so if anyone has pictures of old cell phone send them to me on my regular email and then I can forward the pictures. Too much problem to take them off the thread and get them to my email.

I do NOT know when he got it. Why he needed it I don't know but he seemed fascinated with things like that.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

377

Jo, can you get me a few of those CIA get out of jail free jump anywhere cards? I'll recruit Hangdiver, Airtwardo, Amazon and some of my other friends here to do an El Capitan jump. I'll even invite Snow. It can be his first jump. If they are good in Area 51 it should be a piece of cake jumping in Yosemite.

377

You guys are on your own - Not connected to that department!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[georger 197]

377

Jo wrote

Quote

Seems like Jo Weber & the DZ are under investigation by Mr. Smith. Some how in my past life I supposely met Quade and we conspired to create the Cooper thread.

The plot thickens Jo. Bruce will be all over this.
Did you know that Quade was tracked by USAF radar skydiving through AREA 51 airspace

***Seems as if the Cammo Guys were convinced by the Nellis ATC (which I read as Area 51 ATC) that although we had exited over the MOA that we had drifted into the airspace of Area 51 and that they could easily see that on radar. What? Our hip rings? You gotta be kidding me? Well, I guess they do have some pretty good radar up there

Found this while searching for info on radar tracking of skydivers. It's our Quade for sure.

http://www.futurecam.com/area51.html

It's labeled fiction, but thats CIA SOP, something about "plausible deniability".

I guess the CIA didn't properly coordinate the op with the Air Force. No prob. A call to Langley and Nellis AFB brass were soon apologizing to Quade and inviting him to the Officers Club for drinks. Q didn't even ask to see the captured flying disc or the embalmed aliens, as he had already seen the full report and didnt want to be perceived as a gawking tourist in Dreamland.

Jo, can you get me a few of those CIA get out of jail free jump anywhere cards? I'll recruit Hangdiver, Airtwardo, Amazon and some of my other friends here to do an El Capitan jump. I'll even invite Snow. It can be his first jump. If they are good in Area 51 it should be a piece of cake jumping in Yosemite.

377

Funny. Quade ... the UFO alien! At least he didnt wind
up housed - with the arc of the covenant - on Oak Island!


Jo might be the only person able to get him out!