DB Cooper

[mrshutter45 21]

airtwardo

~ Mine had gone to court, I was found guilty by default for not being there...local cop buddy stopped by the house letting me know a warrant had been issued!

A Civil case was in the preliminary stages before I got it all straightened out. . . I had quite a 'discussion' with the assistant state attorney that ramrodded it.

Even my insurance co. 'almost' screwed the pooch on it. Took me lots of time & effort to un-do what all had been done...all because jumping to conclusions is easier than doing your job I guess.

my problem is kind of opposite to yours. I received a letter that the driver hit made a claim for damages and Hospital bills. the actual Law suit has not been officially dated. still in the investigative stages.

The police are claiming they came to my house several times and left a card for me to call. they received no response, so they turned it over to the State. The officer in charge is not answering his phone, again, so I will call first thing in the morning to inform him I will be there for a statement. I also have all my ammo to counter the claims against me.

This could have easily been avoided if they actually tried to make contact with me. I discovered things within hours after reading the police report. I can't stress enough about how much of an individuals word is when the others haven't, or can't speak. it could possibly cloud the truth. regardless what proof you think you have. there is and always has been two sides to every story.

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[Danielle1010 0]

Robert are you on skype

[smokin99 0]

RobertMBlevins

Smokin99 says in part:

Quote

'lol...Right. And she left no forwarding address. As I said, that might be a hint.

Robert. I am not patronizing you. As you pointed out to someone else in an earlier post. Lighten up.
YOU said, in a rather patronizing way I might add, that you were glad I had all the answers. I responded that I was glad you finally saw reason. And that is a good sign. Wink End of story.

I know you guys want every action to be directly related to Cooper, but sometimes it just is what it is. There is nothing in the Geestman sale of property that points to ulterior (your word, not mine) motives. If there were, she would probably not have waited a year to leave. My opinion, based on reading the documents related to the sale - and logic.

At any rate, since no one wanted to tell you where she went, the conclusion might be that she doesn't want to be contacted. But that's just a guess. Carry on...'

You ignore the obvious. Margaret Geestman did a half-dozen interviews pointing to her ex-husband as an accomplice in the Cooper case. This same man went on national television and said he thought Kenny could be the hijacker. Witnesses have placed both he and Kenny missing the week of the crime, so offering an alibi might be more in order for him than tossing Kenny under the bus. In her final interview, Margie admits that Kenny was the guy who went missing that week with her husband. Bernie plays games with History Channel folk and gets caught in a pack of lies. Now Margie sells her ranch for a half-million dollars to the State of Washington and bails town.

There's an old saying, Smokin.

***'Don't piss down my back and then try to tell me it's raining...'

Yeah- I think of that one quite bit in this thread. But here's a couple more that you might try - just cause you're in a tuxedo and riding in the train with another equally well- dressed passenger does not mean you're going to the same party.
Or my personal favorite- Correlation is not causation and A pile of crap does not necessarily mean you're getting a pony for Christmas.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[EVickiW 0]

smokin99

***Smokin99 says in part:

Quote

'lol...Right. And she left no forwarding address. As I said, that might be a hint.

Robert. I am not patronizing you. As you pointed out to someone else in an earlier post. Lighten up.
YOU said, in a rather patronizing way I might add, that you were glad I had all the answers. I responded that I was glad you finally saw reason. And that is a good sign. Wink End of story.

I know you guys want every action to be directly related to Cooper, but sometimes it just is what it is. There is nothing in the Geestman sale of property that points to ulterior (your word, not mine) motives. If there were, she would probably not have waited a year to leave. My opinion, based on reading the documents related to the sale - and logic.

At any rate, since no one wanted to tell you where she went, the conclusion might be that she doesn't want to be contacted. But that's just a guess. Carry on...'

You ignore the obvious. Margaret Geestman did a half-dozen interviews pointing to her ex-husband as an accomplice in the Cooper case. This same man went on national television and said he thought Kenny could be the hijacker. Witnesses have placed both he and Kenny missing the week of the crime, so offering an alibi might be more in order for him than tossing Kenny under the bus. In her final interview, Margie admits that Kenny was the guy who went missing that week with her husband. Bernie plays games with History Channel folk and gets caught in a pack of lies. Now Margie sells her ranch for a half-million dollars to the State of Washington and bails town.

There's an old saying, Smokin.

***'Don't piss down my back and then try to tell me it's raining...'

Yeah- I think of that one quite bit in this thread. But here's a couple more that you might try - just cause you're in a tuxedo and riding in the train with another equally well- dressed passenger does not mean you're going to the same party.
Or my personal favorite- Correlation is not causation and A pile of crap does not necessarily mean you're getting a pony for Christmas.

smokin99, here is another tried and true.

The KC is Cooper story is kind of like a fart: if you have to force it, then it’s going to be shitty.

And Robert, look at your own Cooper story when writing quotes. You have been pissing down the backs of many and calling it rain for a few years now. In fact many of your quotes can be turned around and applied toward your postings on DZ.

You have been telling everyone here that you are not going to put ANY information about KC in the public eye, but you continually endorse him as a suspect. Why?

Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs

[quade 3]

RobertMBlevins

It's my opinion that many people have an axe to grind regarding Cooper, and the stone they use to sharpen it is ignoring pretty much anything that does not point toward THEIR suspect.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u34BhEgO_es&list=PL5we3MsiXuidKuV5F8py3gEMy5NWpQeDS

Also see;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareidolia

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[EVickiW 0]

quade

***It's my opinion that many people have an axe to grind regarding Cooper, and the stone they use to sharpen it is ignoring pretty much anything that does not point toward THEIR suspect.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u34BhEgO_es&list=PL5we3MsiXuidKuV5F8py3gEMy5NWpQeDS

Also see;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareidolia

and further information about interviewer techniques and bias:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1348/135532507X238682/pdf

and Robert, what you said in your last quote that Quade posted above......This also can be said about you.

Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs

[377 20]

Blevins wrote

Quote

You get people on the record, you go for second sources, you check their statements. That's how you get to the truth.

Bush and Cheney endorse an alternative method. John Yu says it's legal.
Want the "truth"? Just add water.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[mrshutter45 21]

Mr. Blevins is once again missing the whole point. first of all as I have often pointed out just because someone says something doesn't mean it's true. second, he claims you should check there statements. he doesn't realize he didn't do that during his investigation. he doesn't know how the house was purchased, he doesn't know if a house was purchased after the loan. he seems to think everyone is attacking his story. that part is partially true because he failed to do the mentioned above.

I showed obvious proof of what a bunch of people claimed about me involving a hit and run. everything was concluded making me look guilty without consulting me first, or hearing my side of the story. claiming the FBI is not doing there job every time isn't going to cut it with me. I agree they have made mistakes, but I seriously doubt we have a better outlook on the case. I'm sure they have there reason why they don't pay attention to some of these older suspects. there not going to come onto a thread and defend there honor. my guess is that they could care less what we think.

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[EVickiW 0]

mrshutter45

Mr. Blevins is once again missing the whole point. first of all as I have often pointed out just because someone says something doesn't mean it's true. second, he claims you should check there statements. he doesn't realize he didn't do that during his investigation. he doesn't know how the house was purchased, he doesn't know if a house was purchased after the loan. he seems to think everyone is attacking his story. that part is partially true because he failed to do the mentioned above.

I showed obvious proof of what a bunch of people claimed about me involving a hit and run. everything was concluded making me look guilty without consulting me first, or hearing my side of the story. claiming the FBI is not doing there job every time isn't going to cut it with me. I agree they have made mistakes, but I seriously doubt we have a better outlook on the case. I'm sure they have there reason why they don't pay attention to some of these older suspects. there not going to come onto a thread and defend there honor. my guess is that they could care less what we think.

I understand your frustration Shutter... we get to read the same regurgitated stories about Kenny..the interviews...yada yada....like we all haven't had this KC crap shoved down our throats in the last three years.

People ask a simple question of Blevins (and sometimes just a general Cooper question) and get paragraphs of banter when a simple answer in a few sentences would have sufficed.

Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs

[EVickiW 0]

RobertMBlevins

******Mr. Blevins is once again missing the whole point. first of all as I have often pointed out just because someone says something doesn't mean it's true. second, he claims you should check there statements. he doesn't realize he didn't do that during his investigation. he doesn't know how the house was purchased, he doesn't know if a house was purchased after the loan. he seems to think everyone is attacking his story. that part is partially true because he failed to do the mentioned above.

I showed obvious proof of what a bunch of people claimed about me involving a hit and run. everything was concluded making me look guilty without consulting me first, or hearing my side of the story. claiming the FBI is not doing there job every time isn't going to cut it with me. I agree they have made mistakes, but I seriously doubt we have a better outlook on the case. I'm sure they have there reason why they don't pay attention to some of these older suspects. there not going to come onto a thread and defend there honor. my guess is that they could care less what we think.

I understand your frustration Shutter... we get to read the same regurgitated stories about Kenny..the interviews...yada yada....like we all haven't had this KC crap shoved down our throats in the last three years.

People ask a simple question of Blevins (and sometimes just a general Cooper question) and get paragraphs of banter when a simple answer in a few sentences would have sufficed.

Well...if you don't think Kenny's a good suspect, and you've completely written him off...then perhaps it's time to stop mentioning either me or him in future posts for a while and move on to something/someone else.

I have said many times nothing new from me on KC until August anyway.
I did not say I had written off anyone. I, as well as others here, are tired of reading the SAME OLD STUFF day in and day out about KC!...You just keep pushing....and pushing!

If we do have a question about him, just answer the question in a few short sentences. I understand nothing new until August.....so stop the storybook posts and stop throwing "teasers" into the forum. If you are not willing to answer the legitimate questions, or fix misrepresentations on your website, then don't post about KC. This is the COOPER forum!

I have new info on my dad from NAMUS, however it does not need to go here...I don't keep shoving the same old crap down everyone's throat. If someone asks, I will answer the question unless smokin99 gets it out there first.

Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs

[smokin99 0]

RobertMBlevins

*********It's my opinion that many people have an axe to grind regarding Cooper, and the stone they use to sharpen it is ignoring pretty much anything that does not point toward THEIR suspect.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u34BhEgO_es&list=PL5we3MsiXuidKuV5F8py3gEMy5NWpQeDS

Also see;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareidolia

and further information about interviewer techniques and bias:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1348/135532507X238682/pdf

and Robert, what you said in your last quote that Quade posted above......This also can be said about you.

I don't think so. But one thing I lean heavily on is what people say directly to direct questions. This is because you can record their answers and then check on them. This is how I discovered, for example, that Bernie Geestman lied when he said that he was gone ten to eleven months of the year to sea in 1971. We checked with a senior exec at Foss Tugs, who said this was not possible.

I learned a lot by reading the book All The President's Men, which I think should be required reading for every journalism student on Earth. You get people on the record, you go for second sources, you check their statements. That's how you get to the truth.

It's okay to make assumptions and present theories, as long as you qualify that by telling people that's exactly what they are. In the case of Cooper, no one has been perfect on every detail, but when you get your nose bloodied the best thing is to admit your mistake and move on, trying to find the truth. I am a big believer in this concept.


Unfortunately, belief in a concept and practice of same has been a problem for us humans since the dawn of time. So far your practice appears to undermine your beliefs. Your book/pdf/web site advances speculation as if it is the truth when in reality you have never presented one shred of documentation to back up anything that others have told you. Additionally, the documentation that I, among others, easily uncovered proves parts of what you reported inaccurate yet you continue to advance it.
It's called a credibility gap. To relate this to All the Presiden'ts Men - well, lets just say that Bradlee would probably send you back to the second shift obit desk.
other than that....Have you produced a picture of Kenny in a toupee? A check receipt from a loan? Any receipts showing payments of substantial cash for anything? Proof that Kenny wasn't working on another flight on Nov 24, 1971? Proof that Kenny owned that tie clip? Any documentation showing Kenny's schedule that week? Any pictures of those log books proving anything? Any proof, other than what someone said that someone else told them that proves that Kenny and Bernie were together that Thanksgiving? Can you point to a single piece of evidence that proves your claims? So far you haven't. You made the claims..you have the burden of proof. Proof not anecdotes.
I don't know...maybe you could take the weekend off from the thread and re-read "All the President's men". W and B were given crumbs of information - they then had to follow and dig to find corroborating evidence before they were allowed to print their story. Just saying...
All of you guys that have a pet suspect try to connect dots and force large square pegs into tiny round holes. You are the poster children for confirmation bias.

As for discussing Kenny - I like to discuss all of the candidates, including Kenny. But generally people with pet candidates have closed minds to anything that doesn't fit their guy. (see confirmation bias)
The other problem, I think, that Vicki was alluding to is when we try to discuss general elements of the hijacking, people with pet candidates have a tendency to always respond with how whatever we are talking about relates to their guy. And it's always the same information that the person posted the last time the subject came up. It does get rather tiring because then others feel they have to set the record straight....again.....and on and on and on it goes. Stuck in a infinite loop in the Cooper vortex. Like Sisyphus hell. Damn that's scary.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[propblast 0]

Can anyone tell me how it was rigged and what the difference may have been from Norjack?

Propblast

[smokin99 0]

Seems like I read somewhere that Carol Abraczinskas was translating and reviewing all the comics. Is this..... http://officialcoldcaseinvestigations.com/showthread.php?p=63407
the only outcome of that? ..(parachuting out of airplane and ransom in a knapsack...posted in 2011)

Or is there more detailed analysis anywhere?

Also ...has anyone seen any further news on this......http://www.pr.com/press-release/430979

eta...
It's interesting to note that there have almost been as many myths about the comic as about Cooper - from even the "experts" - ever since Avion news published the article about the comic and Sluggo brought it to the Dropzone. (Apparently the story did not get much traction or notice from the public or FBI when it was first written about in the Sunday Oregonian in 1982.)

For example, it is not true that the the comic was published only in French -- it was available in 24 countries and 17 languages.

Also interesting...of the many countries that the comic was distributed, until at least the mid 80s Canada was not one of them. It could only be found in one Canadian paper "La Patrie" in the 70s.
I guess you could order the books from overseas, but the notion that Dan Cooper was highly read and could be found on the magazine racks in Canada is a myth I think.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[Hominid 0]

propblast

Can anyone tell me how it was rigged and what the difference may have been from Norjack?

There are a few pix & videos scattered around the web. For some of them, at least, they totally removed the airstair and paneled the sides of the stairwell. (see pic)

In Norjak the stair was hanging loose, being held up in varying degrees by airflow and pushed partly down by the hijacker's weight until he jumped. The stair was not in the fully down position even when he was out on the end of it.

[smokin99 0]

Hominid

***Can anyone tell me how it was rigged and what the difference may have been from Norjack?

There are a few pix & videos scattered around the web. For some of them, at least, they totally removed the airstair and paneled the sides of the stairwell. (see pic)

In Norjak the stair was hanging loose, being held up in varying degrees by airflow and pushed partly down by the hijacker's weight until he jumped. The stair was not in the fully down position even when he was out on the end of it.

this one might be from the same site.... a close up but not sure if you can tell anything.

from here.....
http://www.mfk-projects.com/skydiving.htm

eta...you can't tell by the picture but I'm pretty sure he's yelling "Geronimo"!!!!

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[Hominid 0]

smokin99

this one might be from the same site.... a close up but not sure if you can tell anything.

More fun, but the stair could be hiding behind the guy.

BTW: They removed the upper, fixed part of the stair as well as the extendable one. The jumpers go from the little landing just outside the aft door. From a video of a woman taking a tandem I could see that even the stair control station was gone.

[377 20]

The 727 that attended WFFC in the later years was a freighter operated by AMJET. My guess is that most freight dog 27s remove the stairs to save weight and therefore increase payload.

You need to get jumpers out FAST on a WFFC jet jump. Delay is distance. Some DC 9 jumpers who were last out landed quite a way off DZ. Stairs would really slow down the exits. The DC 9 had the stairs removed. We exited 85 jumpers in about a minute.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Hominid 0]

377

The 727 that attended WFFC in the later years was a freighter operated by AMJET. My guess is that most freight dog 27s remove the stairs to save weight and therefore increase payload.

Yeah. And it can make small deliveries happen quick. Maybe not too accurate. Maybe nothing fragile. But quick

[propblast 0]

I figured as much.

Bombing a open tail gate is one thing.

That flopping aft stair must have been something else the night the heist went down.

Propblast

[377 20]

Anyone home? Awful quiet around here lately.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[sailshaw 0]

377 Says is getting quiet around here.

I say: "Possibly everyone is switching to Bruce Smith's new site where he is not banned."

http://dbcooperblog.wordpress.com/2014/02/15/announcing-a-new-db-cooper-discussion-site/comment-page-1

He hopes to limit the constant posters here that say nothing new.

Bob Sailshaw
[email protected]

[mrshutter45 21]

377

Anyone home? Awful quiet around here lately.

377

Been a little busy convincing the Insurance company & Police that you can't use my 2009 temporary tag against me trying saying I did a hit & run.

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[Hominid 0]

Good. I thought everyone must be waiting for Jo to return.

[propblast 0]

I want to talk about the jump aspects of this caper but am not sure what the correct questions are....

Propblast

[Amazon 7]

propblast

I want to talk about the jump aspects of this caper but am not sure what the correct questions are....

Its a pretty easy jump.... you put on the rig.. Kluge a lashup of the bag to the harness... walk a little down the steps and step off.. tumble like a mofo when the air smacks you up side the head.... a few seconds later you stable out and pull... there you are under a round canopy that is pretty damn near bulletproof and perfect for landing in the dark into trees. Hundreds if not thousands.. have done night jumps under similar if not worse conditions.