DB Cooper

[skyjack71 0]

All I want is to read and hear is more about the FIRST REAL INVESTIGATION REGARDING the FLIGHT PATH. The INFORMATION TRAIN was really going down the tracks - you could here the WHISTLES being blown - ALL ABOARD! Sitting on that Train was a TEAM of real investigators and those who are well versed in their field.

Then along comes this guy who missed the train LONG ago - saying "WAIT-up for me!"

The TRAIN is sitting still waiting for him to produce his damn Ticket!

Some of the Passengers who boarded are just casual passengers along for the ride and some who like to interject information about their prior trips along that same path. BUT then there is always the guy who will NOT shut UP and just irritates the HELL out of everyone else!


There are the Bullies who poke and prod other passengers who contribute what little they know along the way. One Bully demeans a little old lady (who has been on the train since it left the EAST Coast). She contributed little things she knew might be of interest..to the discussion - only to have one BULLY infer she was full of XXXX & inferred she had never been on that route before.

She had quietly been listening to the conversation ( a subject she was well versed in but not the technical aspects of the subject). ONE of the passengers was very RUDE so she decided to TELL A STORY....hoping he would see himself.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[mrshutter45 21]

this is a form where we discuss things related to the case. your simply dodging the questions. it's ridiculous to email questions that are clearly ones you have said in the past on this thread.


no problem on the cop out, I understand. please in the future do not ask me any questions. I also have a email.

get the last dig in before I start cleaning my house. that way it will remain with you on top until I return....

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[skyjack71 0]

matthewcline

*********Jo,

The info that you say came

Quote

Source Unknown - sent to me by a very old aeronautical engineer - I cannot say who he worked for.

is straight word for word in Wikipedia.

***en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON
The ability to intercept communications depends on the medium used, be it radio, ... During World War II and through the 1950s, high-frequency ("short-wave") radio was widely used for military and diplomatic communication, and could be ...

377

Another confirmation on a theory.

Matt

Matt you have confirmed ZERO.
I explained it was sent to me by someone else and received after the thread took a positive direction. No need to cause interference with your repeated pattern that is ONLY for the purpose of discrediting anything I say.

I have stayed out of the conversation, but it is things like your post above that inflames me....and causes me to make a rebuttal to defend myself.

I think everyone on here would appreciate you NOT make any remarks to inflame me and cause me to have to make a post like this one.

I have confirmed much, and many agree with me.
I hope your health is better.
I truly think you're on a wild goose chase.
I also think your medical issues, and their treatments, are causing you to act irrational, and to an outsider it would give the impression of dementia or other mental illness.

I truly hope 2014 is better for you. I think you could aid that by focusing on health instead of a fiction.

Matt



YOU are probably RUDE to your own mother. YOU have NOT heard nor read the things I wrote in 1996 and told before I ever came to this thread - if you did young man you will eat YOUR words.

Do NOT demean me NOT until you see and read my notes and letters and communications from 1996 until 2003+

YOU set yourself up as JUDGE and JUROR and you do NOT know me!

YOU have not seen the prior research - where things were discussed in the past. I did not know what they meant, but NONE of it was as YOU have SO RUDELY & DISPECTFULLY inferred.

I only take a sleeping pill and do NOT take the pain pills (rarely).

My mental status is NOT dementia or mental illness - quiet the contrary! THAT statement WAS totally UNCALLED FOR.


I would not WISH up on YOUR mother what was thrust upon me in 1996 when I found out who DAN COOPER WAS. If Weber was NOT Cooper he DAMN well knew who WAS!

Wild Goose Chase!

Perhaps you might like to discuss with me the 2 phone calls I got today. Individuals who know me and have met me and have explored the things I have - assurances that they do INDEED remember our discussion of the past...the things I told them PRE 2000!


THIS BRING TO MIND THESE QUESTIONS:

WHO ARE YOU?

HOW CAN YOU AFFORD TO SPEND SO MUCH TIME ON THIS SUBJECT?

WHAT DO YOU DO FOR A LIVING?
WHO PAYS YOUR BILLS?

WHAT IS YOUR PURPOSE IN SPENDING SO MUCH TIME ON THIS THREAD? DO YOU NOT HAVE A WIFE AND CHILDREN?

WHAT IS YOUR INTEREST IN THIS THAT YOU WOULD TAKE AWAY FROM YOUR FAMILY TO WORK ON THIS?

WHAT IS YOUR KNOWLEDGE OF THE SUBJECTS SPOKEN ABOUT?

WHY WOULD YOU DEMEAN A WOMAN YOU HAVE NEVER MET?

HAVE YOU PERSONALLY SPOKE TO PEOPLE WHO KNEW DUANE?

DO YOU COME FROM A BROKEN HOME?

DO YOU JUST LIKE T MESS WITH PEOPLE?

ARE YOU A CONTROL FREAK?

HAVE YOU BEEN TO WA TO SEE THE ROUTE AND THE THINGS I SPEAK OF?

HAVE YOU SPOKE TO MEMBERS OF MY FAMILY?

DO YOU KNOW MEMBERS OF MY FAMILY?

WHAT IS YOUR MOTIVE & PURPOSE REGARDING COOPER?


What say you will NOT answer all of the question? Nor are you capable of understanding my generation!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[mrshutter45 21]

no, the truth is you should answer the question here, not thru email. that's what this form is about. now your doing the same as you and Jo accuse the FBI of. hiding things. it's ok no worries.

I clean my home just fine. I don't need lazy things done for me. I believe in doing things myself. too many lazy people in this country anymore.

what are you going to do once the book comes out? hide it from the thread. I'm sure you will get lots of feedback on that so waiting till the book comes out is a cop out anyway you look at it.

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[mrshutter45 21]

"Excuse me...but what makes YOU deserving of special attention?"

I think that was the joke part right? NEWSFLASH. this is a form where DB Cooper is discussed. questions and answers are found here. I don't see any other posters telling people to email them a question. you are the one who wishes special treatment when asked to step up to the plate. this is an open form where questions and answers happen. you had no problem splattering KC all over this form until parts of truth evolved. post after post of the same KC tune since Aug. 1 2010. now you want to claim up when confronted. this damages any credibility you think you might have on this form. I will make it a point to show my findings prior to the release of your book since you wish to hide everything for the number one seller in the future.

No prob Bob......

also: being worried about what Georger will do with your answers is another cop out. he rips apart anything you say regardless. shows fear......

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[Robert99 37]

Hominid

***

In the 1971 time frame, both the Cockpit Voice Recorder and aircraft Flight Data Recorder were recorded on reels that had not more than about one hour of recording capability before it started recording over the previous data, which then was unrecoverable.

Robert99

How is it that you know what FDRs all planes had in '71?

I have never claimed to know what FDRs all planes had in 1971.

But it is very unlikely that an airliner built in the mid-1960s, such as the NWA 727, would have an FDR with 1971 technology.

As FDR technology improved, the FAA/NTSB would, from time to time, mandate that new production airliners, built after a certain date, include FDRs with the latest technology.

Sometimes, the FAA/NTSB would mandate that airliners with older technology FDRs upgrade their FDRs to a newer technology level.

But as the FDR technology improved, the FAA/NTSB always allowed plenty of time (measured in years) for the manufacturers and airline operators to comply. The point was to not impose a significant economic impact to the manufacturers and operators due to the upgrades.

In the case of Voice Cockpit Recorders, the airline pilot's association (ALPA) legally opposed their introduction. And there was protracted litigation over the matter.

So to make a long story short, an airliner built in the mid-1960s would have an early version of the FDRs and that would be one that recorded on a tape reel with eventual overwriting of the previously recorded data.

Robert99

[Hominid 0]

Robert99

So to make a long story short, an airliner built in the mid-1960s would have an early version of the FDRs and that would be one that recorded on a tape reel with eventual overwriting of the previously recorded data.

Robert99

WRONG. The early version recorded on metal foil on which overwriting was impossible.

Attached is from the NTSB document Smokin provided link to.

[MarkBennett 5]

RobertMBlevins

She has a point. She gets worried. She says AB isn't about Cooper or KC, but something bigger. Like when we re-did the classic by the late, great, Margarie Phleger or did the sci-fi mag, or sponsored the Young Writers' Project that published a fifteen-year-old girl from Florida.

But, Robert, that's the point. The only reason anyone would think AB is about Cooper or KC is that you post about it here.

And, why would Gayla read DZ unless you talk about your conversations here?

[mrshutter45 21]

Hominid

***

So to make a long story short, an airliner built in the mid-1960s would have an early version of the FDRs and that would be one that recorded on a tape reel with eventual overwriting of the previously recorded data.

Robert99

WRONG. The early version recorded on metal foil on which overwriting was impossible.

Attached is from the NTSB document Smokin provided link to.


I believe this is the unit. also shows how it records and the time limits.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlY5W7be5jU

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[mrshutter45 21]

MarkBennett

***
She has a point. She gets worried. She says AB isn't about Cooper or KC, but something bigger. Like when we re-did the classic by the late, great, Margarie Phleger or did the sci-fi mag, or sponsored the Young Writers' Project that published a fifteen-year-old girl from Florida.

But, Robert, that's the point. The only reason anyone would think AB is about Cooper or KC is that you post about it here.

And, why would Gayla read DZ unless you talk about your conversations here?


I think we have reached the end of trying to reason with Robert. it's pointless. he wants to claim up on an open form about prior evidence posted on this form. I'm done with him personally.

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[smokin99 0]

Robert99

In the 1971 time frame, both the Cockpit Voice Recorder and aircraft Flight Data Recorder were recorded on reels that had not more than about one hour of recording capability before it started recording over the previous data, which then was unrecoverable.

The purpose of the CVR and FDR recordings were to assist in accident investigations. The FAA has come down hard on some airline pilots who pulled the circuit breakers to retain data on such things as incidents with air traffic controllers. Apparently the FAA wants the recorders to continue to run until some metal gets bent.

There is little possibility that voice or aircraft recorder data was used in the hijacking "incident" investigation.

Robert99

You might be right. But just to clarify my source regarding the DFR (not the CFR).......

The historical information was based on the NTSB document "Flight Data Recorder Readout Experience in Aircraft Accident Investigations 1960 - 1973 (June)" that was presented in early 1974 and 75 references the following:
An excerpt....
"During those 14 years [1960 - 1973], most air carriers have used electromechanical flight data recorders which employed metal foil as the recording medium. Permanent traces are scribed mechanically. Recording is continuous from the start of the takeoff roll to the end of the landing roll. The following parameters are recorded: Pressure altitude, indicated airspeed, magnetic heading, and vertical acceleration against a base of elapsed time."

This NTSB document also gives the history of the statutory requirements /regulations and mentions that the tapes were to be run for the full flight, and readout data was to be retained for 60 days (there were exceptions for testing purposes). The report also outlined soon to come requirements for DFDRs and expanded parameters.

The report also gave examples of the FDRs on the market then as well as their specs and descriptions (Example: 200 hours on one, 400 on another - though you could turn that one over and record on the other side, "engraving on metal foil", "one-time use").

Also interesting -- The report gave specs on the DFDRS (expanded parameters) that were soon to come out. They must have already been in use in some measure though because four DFDRS were presented for readouts from the time frame, but not included in the stats since they were read out at the manufacturer's - the government did not have the readout equipment for digital FDRs until 1974.

I'm sure it's a most likely a moot point anyway since the possibility of obtaining any data from 1971 would likely be nil and/or of limited use if it was done.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[smokin99 0]

mrshutter45

******

So to make a long story short, an airliner built in the mid-1960s would have an early version of the FDRs and that would be one that recorded on a tape reel with eventual overwriting of the previously recorded data.

Robert99

WRONG. The early version recorded on metal foil on which overwriting was impossible.

Attached is from the NTSB document Smokin provided link to.


I believe this is the unit. also shows how it records and the time limits.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlY5W7be5jU

I think the Sunstrand was mentioned in the document. That was interesting. ...thanks

Edited to correct the name of DFR - I was listening to the next video on the Fairchild digital dfr when I posted this....

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[Robert99 37]

smokin99

*********

So to make a long story short, an airliner built in the mid-1960s would have an early version of the FDRs and that would be one that recorded on a tape reel with eventual overwriting of the previously recorded data.

Robert99

WRONG. The early version recorded on metal foil on which overwriting was impossible.

Attached is from the NTSB document Smokin provided link to.


I believe this is the unit. also shows how it records and the time limits.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlY5W7be5jU

I think the Sunstrand was mentioned in the document. That was interesting. ...thanks

Edited to correct the name of DFR - I was listening to the next video on the Fairchild digital dfr when I posted this....
First, I do believe that Hominid and Smokin are correct about metal foil being the "tape" at some point in the FDRs history. And in fact, I have seen photographs of metal foil traces from accident aircraft. So I am not going to argue the point about FDRs.

However, in the case of CVRs they could be recorded over and they could also be erased on the spot by the cockpit crew.

Neither of the above has anything to do with flight test data recorders of the 1960s era.

Robert99

[smokin99 0]

RobertMBlevins

***"Excuse me...but what makes YOU deserving of special attention?"

I think that was the joke part right? NEWSFLASH. this is a form where DB Cooper is discussed. questions and answers are found here. I don't see any other posters telling people to email them a question. you are the one who wishes special treatment when asked to step up to the plate. this is an open form where questions and answers happen. you had no problem splattering KC all over this form until parts of truth evolved. post after post of the same KC tune since Aug. 1 2010. now you want to claim up when confronted. this damages any credibility you think you might have on this form. I will make it a point to show my findings prior to the release of your book since you wish to hide everything for the number one seller in the future.

No prob Bob......

also: being worried about what Georger will do with your answers is another cop out. he rips apart anything you say regardless. shows fear......

Yes, he does. Which shows he has an obsession going for sure, IMHO. I envision him poised above his keyboard late at night...waiting...waiting. It's funny actually, and although sort of weird, also flattering in a strange sort of way. I have to give him that.

But due to some outside activities on the internet, and a desire to protect both Gayla and myself from personal attacks, I have taken to establishing certain parameters about dealing with the internet, and with the public. Try to understand. We get a lot of email, and a fair amount of snail mail on KC, or other subjects. And I doubt that the murder of Earl Cossey had anything to do with the Cooper case, but I'm not taking any chances. If Gayla had her way, we would completely delete the book from Amazon and trash out the Cooper page at the website. She points to our losses on that, my failure to accept money from History Channel and Comcast Sports (Adrenaline Hunter), my refusal of the offer from the Paradigm client for the KC film rights, etc. And yes, sometimes she looks at this thread.

She has a point. She gets worried. She says AB isn't about Cooper or KC, but something bigger. Like when we re-did the classic by the late, great, Margarie Phleger or did the sci-fi mag, or sponsored the Young Writers' Project that published a fifteen-year-old girl from Florida.

And she's right. These are some of the reasons I never bothered to visit the Cooper exhibit in Tacoma, go to Ariel last year, or do the symposium at the museum. She says, rightly, that AB is not the DB Cooper Publishing Platform, and we are not about all that. Sometimes I feel guilty about it because I know she's right.
Before Skipp Porteous and his manuscript came along, we were doing just fine. Afterward, we nearly reached the bankruptcy point. There was this one week I seriously considered shutting the whole thing down and moving on.

After the incident with the Wordpress and the CNN articles and dealing with Matt Mullenburg on that, I decided to back off and set certain rules. I decided to stop discussing KC whenever possible and try to move into just talking about points on the Cooper case in general. So I've restricted a lot of that to email, where I can verify folks and hold them responsible if they get crazy with me on the internet. And that's the way it stays.

If you sincerely want those questions answered, you will have to get in line and do as I asked, otherwise we have nothing to discuss on that.

And I still think the Seattle FBI did a whitewash on the Amboy chute. They might be right about it, but they went about it in the wrong way, and their statements on it do not make sense.

No Robert, they just did like you have a habit of doing....they jumped the gun before they had all of the facts.

FBI confirms it: Parachute wasn't used by D.B. Cooper
by Allan Brettman, The Oregonian
Tuesday April 01, 2008, 6:20 PM
VANCOUVER -- The FBI made it official today: the parachute unearthed near Amboy, Wash., was not used by fabled skyjacker Dan "D.B." Cooper.
The conclusion was based "on the totality of the information," Seattle FBI spokeswoman Robbie Burroughs said, and not just the opinion of Earl Cossey, the FAA-certified parachute rigger who packed each of the four parachutes that were handed over to Cooper on Nov. 24, 1971.
"Other parachute experts were consulted," Burroughs said, including some who steeped forward to help the FBI after the parachute's discovery was announced last week.
Cossey said Monday that the parachute he examined last week could not have been used by Cooper because of differences in fabric. The parachute laid on his garage floor on Friday was silk; the parachute packed for Cooper was ripstop nylon, Cossey said.
Burroughs acknowledged that FBI officials initially erred in saying that the parachute found near Amboy contained no identifying features.

After making that statement, a closer inspection found two pieces of information on the parachute: the date Feb. 21, 1946, and what is believed to be a serial number, 307551."

You know...posts like the one above by you are part of the reason that folks give you a hard time on this forum. You've a bit of the "he's a legend in his own mind" thing going on, and posts like this just reinforce that notion.

But aside from that because I know you won't get it.......

We would all like to see the chute re-addressed if only because of questions that have been raised about the chutes.
However, you cannot pick and choose tidbits of information to prove your points.
First, the chute was not in pristine condition. It was tattered, torn and dirty in places.
Second, I might be wrong on this, but I sincerely believe that regardless of what you think about Cossey, and regardless of whether he owned or packed all four, Cossey was a master rigger and should be able to tell the difference between rip-stop nylon and silk. To be honest, I would imagine that I would be able to.
Third, with that much material, it is NOT a given that it would all be turned to mush after being buried.
Fourth, if the FBI is lying about the chute, then nothing short of finding a bony hand clutching a couple of twenties will solve this case.

Really...to me it is illogical to say that the FBI is afraid of new evidence that might show our boy didn't die. They could have just let the DB Cooper fable linger into oblivion without bringing it back into the public eye. Because no matter what we all think about how important this stuff is - in the scheme of things in the real world - it's an item in trivial pursuit or jeopardy.

[inline para1.jpg] [inline para2.jpg]

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[mrshutter45 21]

lol, claim....I give ya that one. didn't notice I wrote that. same with form/forum. doesn't change anything. still dodging and refusing to answer questions you had no problem posting for years.

whining you say? is that what it's called when asking for proof or a question related to the topic of DB Cooper?

I guess I could only expect half from you anyway. that's your style. part time jobs, part time Cooper, part of the story of KC etc. etc.

if you wish to respond to this post. I would appreciate it if you would email the response. my email is in my profile.

Thank You

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[smokin99 0]

Robert99

************

So to make a long story short, an airliner built in the mid-1960s would have an early version of the FDRs and that would be one that recorded on a tape reel with eventual overwriting of the previously recorded data.

Robert99

WRONG. The early version recorded on metal foil on which overwriting was impossible.

Attached is from the NTSB document Smokin provided link to.


I believe this is the unit. also shows how it records and the time limits.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlY5W7be5jU

I think the Sunstrand was mentioned in the document. That was interesting. ...thanks

Edited to correct the name of DFR - I was listening to the next video on the Fairchild digital dfr when I posted this....
First, I do believe that Hominid and Smokin are correct about metal foil being the "tape" at some point in the FDRs history. And in fact, I have seen photographs of metal foil traces from accident aircraft. So I am not going to argue the point about FDRs.

However, in the case of CVRs they could be recorded over and they could also be erased on the spot by the cockpit crew.

Neither of the above has anything to do with flight test data recorders of the 1960s era.

Robert99

Okay.

I think this will be my last post on this because like I said it's probably a moot point, and maybe I'm misunderstanding your post, and you could be right.....I'm certainly no expert.

However, the report was based on readouts from DFRs from 1960 - 1973 and the regs that I mentioned were enacted in 1957.
So I'm gonna respectfully disagree on the 1960s era part.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[georger 197]

RobertMBlevins

*********
She has a point. She gets worried. She says AB isn't about Cooper or KC, but something bigger. Like when we re-did the classic by the late, great, Margarie Phleger or did the sci-fi mag, or sponsored the Young Writers' Project that published a fifteen-year-old girl from Florida.

But, Robert, that's the point. The only reason anyone would think AB is about Cooper or KC is that you post about it here.

And, why would Gayla read DZ unless you talk about your conversations here?


I think we have reached the end of trying to reason with Robert. it's pointless. he wants to claim up on an open form about prior evidence posted on this form. I'm done with him personally.

I'm sure it is, and that you are.

By the way, it's 'F-O-R-U-M,' not 'FORM'. And 'clam up,' not CLAIM. After all your whiny posts, I finally had to bring that to your attention, being a book editor and stuff. Couldn't take it anymore.

Funny. While making obsessive petty corrections to others'
typos, remove the stone from your own eye and get something
straight yourself - finally!

It's Fuhriman not Furman, Fuhrman, or Furhman!

You've been misspelling your claimed buddy's name wrong for
years!

[mrshutter45 21]

perhaps this could shed some light.....

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/aero_02/textonly/s01txt.html

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[skyjack71 0]

Hominid

***

So to make a long story short, an airliner built in the mid-1960s would have an early version of the FDRs and that would be one that recorded on a tape reel with eventual overwriting of the previously recorded data.

Robert99

WRONG. The early version recorded on metal foil on which overwriting was impossible.

Attached is from the NTSB document Smokin provided link to.


Dumb stupid old woman has been sitting here waiting for someone to speak up. Why it is lost? -FOR SOME REASON NWA wanted it in their possession and it eventually was - "supposedly" accidently throw away.

Frankly I thought the article on that or a copy of a communication was presented in the thread.

Other wise how else could I possible know this - Might have been Sluggo!
Could have been a question I asked the co-pilot, but I thought there was a written communication on this.l..or a journalist article.

The article Blevins post a while back is that it. I need to see an example of what you guys are discussing - like what it looks like!....

Just Stupid Dumb Ole lady Curiousity!
You think?

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[smokin99 0]

RobertMBlevins

Smokin99 says in part:

Quote

'We would all like to see the chute re-addressed if only because of questions that have been raised about the chutes...'

After all of your foo-fo-rah in that previous post, this statement has the most truth, wouldn't you say? You make my point completely.

The Newsvine article covers some facets on this issue, but not the ones that really matter. Such as the Seattle FBI announcing on a Thursday media release that the chute had been sent to their lab for analysis, and then delivering it to Earl Cossey the next day in the trunk of a car for ID. Or...the Seattle FBI announcing in another media release that local experts were being consulted. Later, they admitted this was only done by phone, and none were allowed to actually examine it.

I could go on. Don't get me started. I downloaded and saved every single media release they did on the Amboy chute as long as they included official statements or recorded appearances. Their quick dismissal without a real explanation just doesn't wash.

Now maybe you're thinking I believe a conspiracy was involved. No. What I actually think is that it was a sloppy investigation because the Seattle FBI simply didn't care. If the chute were Cooper's, this does not bring them closer to solving the case. If the chute were Cooper's, this also proves they were wrong and Cooper made it to the ground. Neither option helps them, neither option solves the case. Neither option makes the FBI look good. So they had no motivation to deal with it on a realistic basis. And they did NOT.

Seattle media was hot on this story at first, they really were. But they had no choice but to swallow the Seattle FBI's dismissal-without-explanation, just like everyone else. You want to believe their conclusion? Fine. Just show me officially how they actually CAME to a conclusion and what they presented to support it. Don't bother looking. You won't find it.

Foo fa rah...that's helpful...You are definitely the expert in sloppy investigation as has been pointed out with your own foibles; however, I didn't make your point because your point is illogical at best.

I would like it re-adressed merely to clean it up because of the cossey statements and because it all became centered around him - NOT because I think the outcome will be any different and not because I think they are trying to whitewash anything.
I think that the whole Cossey debacle is based on semantics. Kind of like the way the co-captain became the primary character in HIS version, so Cossey became the primary in HIS version.
Yes, there is a difference. I happen to lean more towards believing their statement, because I don't think they have anything to gain or lose by lying at this date. And, as I pointed out - if they are, it's a fool's game we're playing anyway.

I have shown you their conclusion and how they came to it in the article I posted - the foo fa rah. They relied on expert opinions and they did have other experts look at the chute. The totality of the evidence - some of which they did not choose to share with you. If you choose not to believe it, that is your prerogative. I imagine there are other things that they have not told you. They must not be aware of who you are.....lol...maybe you'll just have to wait in line on their book.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[georger 197]

RobertMBlevins

Smokin99 says in part:

Quote

'We would all like to see the chute re-addressed if only because of questions that have been raised about the chutes...'

After all of your foo-fo-rah in that previous post, this statement has the most truth, wouldn't you say? You make my point completely.

The Newsvine article covers some facets on this issue, but not the ones that really matter. Such as the Seattle FBI announcing on a Thursday media release that the chute had been sent to their lab for analysis, and then delivering it to Earl Cossey the next day in the trunk of a car for ID. Or...the Seattle FBI announcing in another media release that local experts were being consulted. Later, they admitted this was only done by phone, and none were allowed to actually examine it.

I could go on. Don't get me started. I downloaded and saved every single media release they did on the Amboy chute as long as they included official statements or recorded appearances. Their quick dismissal without a real explanation just doesn't wash.

Now maybe you're thinking I believe a conspiracy was involved. No. What I actually think is that it was a sloppy investigation because the Seattle FBI simply didn't care. If the chute were Cooper's, this does not bring them closer to solving the case. If the chute were Cooper's, this also proves they were wrong and Cooper made it to the ground. Neither option helps them, neither option solves the case. Neither option makes the FBI look good. So they had no motivation to deal with it on a realistic basis. And they did NOT.

Seattle media was hot on this story at first, they really were. But they had no choice but to swallow the Seattle FBI's dismissal-without-explanation, just like everyone else. You want to believe their conclusion? Fine. Just show me officially how they actually CAME to a conclusion and what they presented to support it. Don't bother looking. You won't find it.

From the article at Newsvine:

***'And lastly, how many parachutes do you believe are buried near the flight path of the hijacked jet and in the same area where the hijacker probably made his exit?

In this writer's opinion, the Seattle F.B.I. has not been forthcoming in their explanation about the Amboy parachute, and they need to provide a better one. It's been suggested that independent parachute experts in the Puget Sound area be allowed to re-examine that parachute and make their findings public. Researcher Tom Kaye has expressed an interest in taking a look at it as well...'

Funny. While making obsessive petty corrections to others'
typos, remove the stone from your own eye and get something
straight yourself - finally!

It's Fuhriman not Furman, Fuhrman, or Furhman!

You've been misspelling your claimed buddy's name wrong for
years!

Play it again Sam.

[georger 197]

skyjack71

******

So to make a long story short, an airliner built in the mid-1960s would have an early version of the FDRs and that would be one that recorded on a tape reel with eventual overwriting of the previously recorded data.

Robert99

WRONG. The early version recorded on metal foil on which overwriting was impossible.

Attached is from the NTSB document Smokin provided link to.


Dumb stupid old woman has been sitting here waiting for someone to speak up. Why it is lost? -FOR SOME REASON NWA wanted it in their possession and it eventually was - "supposedly" accidently throw away.

Frankly I thought the article on that or a copy of a communication was presented in the thread.

Other wise how else could I possible know this - Might have been Sluggo!
Could have been a question I asked the co-pilot, but I thought there was a written communication on this.l..or a journalist article.

The article Blevins post a while back is that it. I need to see an example of what you guys are discussing - like what it looks like!....

Just Stupid Dumb Ole lady Curiousity!
You think?

Total nonsense!

The FDR(s) plural were collected by __________ sent to
___________ processed by_______________ and _________,
you haven't the faintest idea what you are talking about.

Tiem for bed Jo and take Blevins and Hobo and his favorite team
with you!

Time for GreyCoip to show up and tell how GreyCop will save
the World 69 36 41 N9.

[Amazon 7]

georger

*********

So to make a long story short, an airliner built in the mid-1960s would have an early version of the FDRs and that would be one that recorded on a tape reel with eventual overwriting of the previously recorded data.

Robert99

WRONG. The early version recorded on metal foil on which overwriting was impossible.

Attached is from the NTSB document Smokin provided link to.


Dumb stupid old woman has been sitting here waiting for someone to speak up. Why it is lost? -FOR SOME REASON NWA wanted it in their possession and it eventually was - "supposedly" accidently throw away.

Frankly I thought the article on that or a copy of a communication was presented in the thread.

Other wise how else could I possible know this - Might have been Sluggo!
Could have been a question I asked the co-pilot, but I thought there was a written communication on this.l..or a journalist article.

The article Blevins post a while back is that it. I need to see an example of what you guys are discussing - like what it looks like!....

Just Stupid Dumb Ole lady Curiousity!
You think?

Total nonsense!

The FDR(s) plural were collected by __________ sent to
___________ processed by_______________ and _________,
you haven't the faintest idea what you are talking about.

Tiem for bed Jo and take Blevins with you!

Well now..that was rather smarmy

[Robert99 37]

mrshutter45

perhaps this could shed some light.....

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/aero_02/textonly/s01txt.html

Shutter, indeed it does shed some light. And the main light is that one should ask a specialist in Flight Data Recorders what the full story is about their history.

Smokin, my remark about "flight test data recorders" in the 1960s era was intended to convey that they were somewhat more advanced than the "airplane flight data recorders" we have been discussing.

At least in my experience, based on memories now 50 years old, the flight test data was recorded on tape in a digital format that could be read by mainframe computers of that era. The tape "cassette" itself was a fair size thing about 2 inches thick, and maybe a foot long and wide.

The end result was that the cassette could be easily changed in the recording system. After a flight test, the cassette could be removed and then hauled off to your local computer shop. In a matter of just a relatively few minutes, the computer could print out the test data from the cassette in digital form with the instrument and other corrections already applied.

Then the real work of deciphering the computer print outs began.

Robert99

[skyjack71 0]

***
FBI confirms it: Parachute wasn't used by D.B. Cooper
by Allan Brettman, The Oregonian
Tuesday April 01, 2008, 6:20 PM
VANCOUVER -- The FBI made it official today: the parachute unearthed near Amboy, Wash., was not used by fabled skyjacker Dan "D.B." Cooper.
The conclusion was based "on the totality of the information," Seattle FBI spokeswoman Robbie Burroughs said, and not just the opinion of Earl Cossey, the FAA-certified parachute rigger who packed each of the four parachutes that were handed over to Cooper on Nov. 24, 1971.
"Other parachute experts were consulted," Burroughs said, including some who steeped forward to help the FBI after the parachute's discovery was announced last week.
Cossey said Monday that the parachute he examined last week could not have been used by Cooper because of differences in fabric. The parachute laid on his garage floor on Friday was silk; the parachute packed for Cooper was ripstop nylon, Cossey said.
Burroughs acknowledged that FBI officials initially erred in saying that the parachute found near Amboy contained no identifying features.

After making that statement, a closer inspection found two pieces of information on the parachute: the date Feb. 21, 1946, and what is believed to be a serial number, 307551."